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4 votes

Ferrari/Pirelli tyre tests

Started by F.M. , Jun 20 2013 13:34

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146 replies to this topic

#51 Nomore

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:42

Their point is that Ferrari did all that without the notification the FIA are demanding Mercedes should have sought, included car specific testing, exceeded the 1000km contracted mileage and Ferrari paid for the test. That smells quite badly in itself, regardless of the fact that they used an older car. It's a tactic to highlight double standards in what the FIA have chosen to pursue.

It's not a double standart....the rules specify that you can use a 2011 car as much as you want...a case can be made to what tires Ferrari tested... and did Pirelli offred a test with a 2 year old car to all teams in 2012 ?...They said yes...but then again is Pirelli's problem to give the others a tire test not Ferrari's.

The only reason why Mercedes is in the Tribunal is because of the car and not the tires...no one would have called Mercedes in tribunal if a 2011 car was used.

Edited by Nomore, 20 June 2013 - 20:43.

#52 scheivlak

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:46

the rules specify that you can use a 2011 car as much as you want...

They certainly don't specify that

#53 Forma1

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:52

Mercedes used their race drivers and current car. They claim nother was hidden while Lewis was asked to put a new helmet on. :DDDDDDDDDD Joke of the year.

Ferrari used Pedro and two year-old car.

These are facts and the two matters are night and night.
Mercedes are just desperate, they feel something is in the air and can't find out anything then pointing at Ferrari. That's how a lawyer works. Even if he knows his client is guilty and killed thousand of people he is desperate and tries to defend his naughty boy.

#54 Nomore

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:55

They certainly don't specify that ;)

sry i was wrong, The rule says (http://www.formula1....s/8713/fia.html) that you should not pass 15 000km did Ferrari pass this limit ?

#55 Ricardo F1

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:59

Mercedes used their race drivers and current car. They claim nother was hidden while Lewis was asked to put a new helmet on. :DDDDDDDDDD Joke of the year.

Ferrari used Pedro and two year-old car.

In 2012 they apparently used a 2011 car with Massa. I think that's the point.

#56 Nomore

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 21:03

In 2012 they apparently used a 2011 car with Massa. I think that's the point.

The OP says that FIA confirmed Ferrari used a 2010 car in 2012...what is your source ?

If they have used a 2011 car they maybe in trouble

#57 redbarron

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 21:43

In 2012 they apparently used a 2011 car with Massa. I think that's the point.

I've read multiple times it was a 2010 car?

The only two issues I think Ferrari might have is that (not sure if this is true) Massa drove in 2012, and that Ferrari's tire tech has a trail of asking for information from Pirelli. Wether Massa drove or that Ferrari got information could sway the argument. The FIA has already said Ferrari are in the clear running a two year old car, so if it was a 2010 in 2012 we can assume that it isn't a problem.

I hope all this just means in season testing for all teams is a more common occurrence, as using simulators is just providing too many issues. I would be surprised if either Merc or Ferrari get anything other then a smack on the wrist.

#58 ardbeg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 00:27

You're funny guy (could be the same as the OP but with different username ?), but it seems that you don’t like to read or to understand…or maybe you simply don’t want....

if you don't trust FIA why you watch formula 1 ?

FIA is responsible for equality in this sport, if you don’t trust them, just stop watching F1…. if you continue to watch F1 (even thinking that everything is fake and corrupted) then you are just lying to yourself.

The day I will think FIA is corrupted I will stop watching F1.

The thread is made by a “Ferrari hater” which is just bashing Ferrari referencing what a Mercedes lawyer has said...if you want to make it at least right, you should wait the Ferrari lawyer what he has to said in that matter.

It would have been totally different if he was referencing a FIA lawyer.

In the same time I understand your frustration that Ferrari didn’t break a rule and the excitement that Ferrari could break the rule …but FIA till now has said that Ferrari didn’t break the rule.

Mercedes is free to open a new case.

I hope you are more clear now

It's clear you don't get it. I was simply pointing out that your arguments did not hold water. You "clear case" is not clear and te discussion here is about that. It is also clear that you have not been around for long if you believe FiA is not corrupt, but that is probably another discussion.

#59 dave34m

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:07

So the Mercedes hearing put some new light on the tests Ferrari carried out. And if Mercedes is found guilty, it is very likely we will get a case against Ferrari as well afterall.

The tests:
- 2013 test in Bahrain with the 2011 car driven by Pedro de laRosa.
- 2012 test in Barcelona with (probably) 2011 car driven by Felipe Massa. (Mercedes only makes reference to the 2011 car, comparing its performance to both the 2013 cars (2013 Bahrain test) and the 2012 cars (2012 Barcelona test). No where is a 2010 car mentioned; see below).

The 2013 test wasn't in Bahrain, it was after the Bahrain race but took place in Barcelona, Pirelli have refused to say what they were testing which is strange. All details of these tests should be disclosed.

I was not aware of the 2012 test at all, I would like to know more about it.

#60 dave34m

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:17

These types of tests have to stop regardless of who is involved.

These types of tests are crucial to providing tires that make the sport interesting and fair. Pirelli have to be able to test with the teams, no question IMO.

#61 TonyK

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:23

FWIW, my understanding is that the 2013 'Bahrain test' with Ferrari referred to by the OP was actually conducted at the same Barcelona circuit as the Merc test. It was performed soon after the 2013 Bahrain GP, which is where the confusion may occur. It was done using the 2011 car organised through the Ferrari Corse Clienti 'F1 Clienti' operation, not the Scuderia Ferrari F1 team (... whether that makes any difference...) and driven by PdlR.

But as it was so 'private'/'secret', who really knows.....?!?!

#62 HPT

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 06:57

Not at all. But the fact that there is differences does not automatically make one right and one wrong.

What? One is legal and the other one isn't.

#63 Sakae

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:20

You're funny guy (could be the same as the OP but with different username ?), but it seems that you don’t like to read or to understand…or maybe you simply don’t want....

if you don't trust FIA why you watch formula 1 ?

FIA is responsible for equality in this sport, if you don’t trust them, just stop watching F1…. if you continue to watch F1 (even thinking that everything is fake and corrupted) then you are just lying to yourself.

The day I will think FIA is corrupted I will stop watching F1.
...

I don't know about you, but I watch F1 for its racing aspect, and despite of F1 branch of FiA.

#64 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:21

What? One is legal and the other one isn't.

The Ferrari tests were not brought up in respect to legality though.

#65 Nomore

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:58

It's clear you don't get it. I was simply pointing out that your arguments did not hold water. You "clear case" is not clear and te discussion here is about that. It is also clear that you have not been around for long if you believe FiA is not corrupt, but that is probably another discussion.

My friend i'm afraid in your "clear" sentences nothing is clear

What are you pointing out that "my arguments did not hold water" ?...till now you're not pointing nothing bar the fact that you dont like Ferrari.

for me the "clear case" is :
FIA by closing the 2013 test using a 2011 car says Ferrari did nothing wrong, Now Mercedes have raised that Ferrari did a 2012 test with a 2010 car... they can go ahead and open another case but it's a losing case from the start...but they have the right to do it

You are lying only to yourself if you believe FIA is corrupt and in the same time follow F1...i have followed F1 since the 96 and FIA may make mistake, be inconsistentt, but never that what they did is in purpose or corrupt... if i will believe that then i'll stop watch F1

FIA can't be corrupt only when interests you, when they punish your favorite team they are corrupt, when they punish the team you hate they are doing a good job.

#66 Nomore

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:18

I don't know about you, but I watch F1 for its racing aspect, and despite of F1 branch of FiA.

At least you can read the history (of the messages) or at least try to comprehend what i wrote..i understand your excitement in answering even is nothing there to be answered, but Try to be more careful

i was responding to a guy who said that FIA is corrupt...correct if i'm wrong, but FIA is there to guarantee the equality in the sport, that all the entrants respect the rules, that the game is running fair...

If you believe that FIA is corrupt that is not anymore motor racing, it's called "anarki" that an entrant can corrupt and do everything he want, if you believe this (maybe you don't believe this) then why you watch F1 ? if you belive that this is fake why you watch ? it doesn't make sense... does it..

Edited by Nomore, 21 June 2013 - 08:20.

#67 ardbeg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:49

You are lying only to yourself if you believe FIA is corrupt and in the same time follow F1...i have followed F1 since the 96 and FIA may make mistake, be inconsistentt, but never that what they did is in purpose or corrupt... if i will believe that then i'll stop watch F1

That's cute. FiA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world and that was more or less proved by Max Mosley who bought votes when he needed them. No, I can not prove it, but if you followed the last parts of Mosleys career and still think FiA is not corrupt, then I would have a hard time proving to you the existence of the sun.

#68 ardbeg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:56

What? One is legal and the other one isn't.

The verdict has fallen? Merc have decided to to appeal? Ferrari has brought forward all information about their test? Or you simply want the former to be true?

This is not a clear cut case, Ross and the others at both Mercedes and Pirelli are not that stupid, there is factors unknown to us, words spoken and faxes sent that we have not seen.

Posts like yours that tries to use the gavel is very much annoying since they are just made to preceed an even more annoying "I told you so".
There is polls you can use for giving your own personal verdict.

#69 Nomore

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:06

That's cute. FiA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world and that was more or less proved by Max Mosley who bought votes when he needed them. No, I can not prove it, but if you followed the last parts of Mosleys career and still think FiA is not corrupt, then I would have a hard time proving to you the existence of the sun.

i have not a problem that you believe that FIA is corrupted, what i dont understand is why you follow it, because is not anymore racing is all pre-defined if FIA is corrupt...isn't it ?

would you watch a football match if the referee is corrupt ? personally not
How do you know that Mosley bought votes..he may or he may not...even if true he was gone then..maybe because he did something wrong...
by the way the existence of the sun is proved only and only by the photons... :wave:

Edited by Nomore, 21 June 2013 - 09:07.

#70 ardbeg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:13

i have not a problem that you believe that FIA is corrupted, what i dont understand is why you follow it, because is not anymore racing is all pre-defined if FIA is corrupt...isn't it ?

would you watch a football match if the referee is corrupt ? personally not
How do you know that Mosley bought votes..he may or he may not...even if true he was gone then..maybe because he did something wrong...
by the way the existence of the sun is proved only and only by the photons...

So you belive that maybe Mosley bought votes but all is ok now when Mosley is gone. What about those that sold their votes? Were they not corrupt?

#71 Nomore

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:22

So you belive that maybe Mosley bought votes but all is ok now when Mosley is gone. What about those that sold their votes? Were they not corrupt?

No i didn't say that i believe that, i said that it may be a possibility like every other possibilities....i think fans can only choose to believe or not believe in FIA

if you believe then it's ok...we discuss about racing. If you don't believe, then there is no need to discuss, because it's not anymore racing.

Edited by Nomore, 21 June 2013 - 09:22.

#72 HPT

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:51

The verdict has fallen? Merc have decided to to appeal? Ferrari has brought forward all information about their test? Or you simply want the former to be true?

This is not a clear cut case, Ross and the others at both Mercedes and Pirelli are not that stupid, there is factors unknown to us, words spoken and faxes sent that we have not seen.

Posts like yours that tries to use the gavel is very much annoying since they are just made to preceed an even more annoying "I told you so".
There is polls you can use for giving your own personal verdict.

I think it's already been established that testing with 2013 car is illegal. The FIA has said as much. They have also said that testing with a 2-year old car isn't illegal.

#73 ardbeg

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:06

I think it's already been established that testing with 2013 car is illegal.

No, it has not. It is clear that in some circumstances it is legal. Those circumstances was probably not met during the Merc test, but that is another thing. Try to keep facts apart from applications.

#74 HPT

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 15:56

No, it has not. It is clear that in some circumstances it is legal. Those circumstances was probably not met during the Merc test, but that is another thing. Try to keep facts apart from applications.

As we all know, the circumstances weren't met, hence it was illegal. That has been established so I don't know why you're trying to argue it. So now Merc has been punished even with a reprimand and a ban of the young drivers' test.

#75 William Hunt

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 16:12

The FIA is Ferrari International Assistance, it has always been like this, they just get away with anything. And Ferrari has a very long history of breaking testing rules. Not just with 2 year old cars but with current cars. They did that a lot during the Brigestone-Michelin era and also in 2010 & 2011 with Alonso but that was for 'marketing & filming purposes'.

#76 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 16:21

The FIA is Ferrari International Assistance, it has always been like this, they just get away with anything. And Ferrari has a very long history of breaking testing rules. Not just with 2 year old cars but with current cars. They did that a lot during the Brigestone-Michelin era and also in 2010 & 2011 with Alonso but that was for 'marketing & filming purposes'.

Hilarious. :rotfl:

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 21 June 2013 - 16:21.

#77 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 16:59

The FIA is Ferrari International Assistance, it has always been like this, they just get away with anything. And Ferrari has a very long history of breaking testing rules. Not just with 2 year old cars but with current cars. They did that a lot during the Brigestone-Michelin era and also in 2010 & 2011 with Alonso but that was for 'marketing & filming purposes'.

Please stop! :rotfl:

#78 ExFlagMan

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 17:40

Q1 - Has anyone asked the FIA what exactly constitutes a 2011 car - you know the one you can apparently test with as much as you like with who you want to drive without anyone knowing or complaining.
Q2 - Does anyone check these 2011 cars when they are used for testing to see if they conform to those rules.

Seems like an open door that Ferrari appear to have been given a golden ticket to walk through.

#79 trogggy

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 17:47

Q1 - Has anyone asked the FIA what exactly constitutes a 2011 car - you know the one you can apparently test with as much as you like with who you want to drive without anyone knowing or complaining.

Who would you ask? Charlie?
I suppose he could run it past the FIA legal dept...

#80 e34

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 18:08

Q1 - Has anyone asked the FIA what exactly constitutes a 2011 car - you know the one you can apparently test with as much as you like with who you want to drive without anyone knowing or complaining.
Q2 - Does anyone check these 2011 cars when they are used for testing to see if they conform to those rules.

Seems like an open door that Ferrari appear to have been given a golden ticket to walk through.

They should have been doing it ages ago. In this age where a regulation saying "no testing allowed" is not a prohibition, but an invitation to find creative ways of reading it "testing allowed", Ferrari (or any other team) should have developed a kind of "mule car" to which they could bolt on any development piece, and let de la Rosa, Gené, Fisichella or any of the several drivers Ferrari has available, test it till they drop.

Until FIA decides to enforce regulations in a reasonable way, teams, any team, should do whatever they feel like doing, if only to make it clear that the current way to govern F1 is a joke.

#81 Atreiu

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 18:33

Q1 - Has anyone asked the FIA what exactly constitutes a 2011 car - you know the one you can apparently test with as much as you like with who you want to drive without anyone knowing or complaining.
Q2 - Does anyone check these 2011 cars when they are used for testing to see if they conform to those rules.

Seems like an open door that Ferrari appear to have been given a golden ticket to walk through.

Not only Ferrari, everyone.

#82 Nomore

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 19:31

Today is a sad day for those who love F1 and fair racing.

I seriously think is a waste of time to watch this farce, why i have to waste 3 hours friday, 2 hours saturday and 2 hours sundayin a race weekend to watch this farce ?
And also discus in several forums for this "fake racing"

A team test a 2013 car and get away with it.

even if Ferrari will win this championship i will be sad, this year i lost complete faith in FIA...never seen a team cheating so openly and no penalty.
since Mercedes was ok why Mclaren got a punishment in 2007 ? where is the consistency ?

This is a disgrace that a great manufacturer as Mercedes cheated so openly... do they feel ashamed at least ?...how they think the fans (bar mercedes, hamilton rosberg fan) will react to this ?

Is better to do everything else than watching a fake championship...Formula 1 has become a joke

Edited by Nomore, 21 June 2013 - 19:34.

#83 Sakae

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 22:40

At least you can read the history (of the messages) or at least try to comprehend what i wrote..i understand your excitement in answering even is nothing there to be answered, but Try to be more careful

i was responding to a guy who said that FIA is corrupt...correct if i'm wrong, but FIA is there to guarantee the equality in the sport, that all the entrants respect the rules, that the game is running fair...

If you believe that FIA is corrupt that is not anymore motor racing, it's called "anarki" that an entrant can corrupt and do everything he want, if you believe this (maybe you don't believe this) then why you watch F1 ? if you belive that this is fake why you watch ? it doesn't make sense... does it..

It is not practical, nor rational to believe, that whole FiA is corrupt, and it also might be a false believe, yet people use such expressions even if they do not mean it. Today is focus on FiA, but in reality it is all about racing, and being No. 1, and no, I do not believe that Sebastian's victories are fake. If someone would be pulling strings on who wins, and who will be on the podium, surely by now they would gift a win to Hamilton, yet that's not what happened, and he will have to earn it, just the others have to do. Have a faith, despite that some stuff is annoying, but the good stuff still can be found. :wave:

#84 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 22:46

Today is a sad day for those who love F1 and fair racing.

I seriously think is a waste of time to watch this farce, why i have to waste 3 hours friday, 2 hours saturday and 2 hours sundayin a race weekend to watch this farce ?
And also discus in several forums for this "fake racing"

A team test a 2013 car and get away with it.

even if Ferrari will win this championship i will be sad, this year i lost complete faith in FIA...never seen a team cheating so openly and no penalty.
since Mercedes was ok why Mclaren got a punishment in 2007 ? where is the consistency ?

This is a disgrace that a great manufacturer as Mercedes cheated so openly... do they feel ashamed at least ?...how they think the fans (bar mercedes, hamilton rosberg fan) will react to this ?

Is better to do everything else than watching a fake championship...Formula 1 has become a joke

Raikkonen and Riccardo got bigger penalties in the last race for the trivial crime of not lining up properly in the pit lane!

It is a very puzzling result for such an obviously significant breach of the regulations.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 21 June 2013 - 22:48.

#85 Ricardo F1

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 22:49

Raikkonen and Riccardo got bigger penalties in the last race for the trivial crime of not lining up properly in the pit lane!

It is a very puzzling result for such an obviously significant breach of the regulations.

It's not puzzling at all. The FIA f***ed up, be a bit poor to drag Mercedes over the coals for it don't you think?

#86 scheivlak

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 22:51

Today is a sad day for those who love F1 and fair racing.

I seriously think is a waste of time to watch this farce, why i have to waste 3 hours friday, 2 hours saturday and 2 hours sundayin a race weekend to watch this farce ?
And also discus in several forums for this "fake racing"

A team test a 2013 car and get away with it.

even if Ferrari will win this championship i will be sad, this year i lost complete faith in FIA...never seen a team cheating so openly and no penalty.
since Mercedes was ok why Mclaren got a punishment in 2007 ? where is the consistency ?

This is a disgrace that a great manufacturer as Mercedes cheated so openly... do they feel ashamed at least ?...how they think the fans (bar mercedes, hamilton rosberg fan) will react to this ?

Is better to do everything else than watching a fake championship...Formula 1 has become a joke

How old are you? Do you understand anything about legal proceedings?

:confused:

#87 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 23:01

It's not puzzling at all. The FIA f***ed up, be a bit poor to drag Mercedes over the coals for it don't you think?

Their biggest screw up is not punishing Mercedes for violating the rules. Todt should have handed out a least a two race ban himself instead of hiding behind a tribunal. Even that weirdo Mosley would have done the right thing.

Ricardo just think about it for a minute - Raikkonen and Ricciardo each lost two positions and likely points in the race for gaining the slight possibility of an insignificant advantage in qualifying. Whereas Mercedes taking part in a 1000 km mid season test which if properly run would be able to find up to a second a lap on the rest of the field and may be able to cure their rear tire heating problem, huge potential advantages, and they suffer no tangible penalty at all!

It is puzzling to say the least.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 21 June 2013 - 23:31.

#88 trogggy

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 23:32

Their biggest screw up is not punishing Mercedes for violating the rules. Todt should have handed out a least a two race ban himself instead of hiding behind a tribunal.

So what you're saying is that you have no idea at all what powers Todt has?

#89 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 23:55

So what you're saying is that you have no idea at all what powers Todt has?

Todt seems to have figured out the powers of invisibility.

Anyway the point of my post is that the punishment handed down in no way meets the seriousness of the violation. Raikkonen suffered more in Montreal for pulling out of the pits in the wrong order! And there are probably countless other examples.

#90 Fangiola

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 00:02

Their biggest screw up is not punishing Mercedes for violating the rules. Todt should have handed out a least a two race ban himself instead of hiding behind a tribunal. Even that weirdo Mosley would have done the right thing.

Ricardo just think about it for a minute - Raikkonen and Ricciardo each lost two positions and likely points in the race for gaining the slight possibility of an insignificant advantage in qualifying. Whereas Mercedes taking part in a 1000 km mid season test which if properly run would be able to find up to a second a lap on the rest of the field and may be able to cure their rear tire heating problem, huge potential advantages, and they suffer no tangible penalty at all!

It is puzzling to say the least.

you think. Mosley if I remember correctly did nothing to Renault who were guilty of stealing designs but yet fined McLaren and excluded them from WCC. No consistency then and no consistency now. One thing you can say about the FIA is they are "consistently inconsistent"

Edited by Fangiola, 22 June 2013 - 00:04.

#91 trogggy

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 00:44

Todt seems to have figured out the powers of invisibility.

Anyway the point of my post is that the punishment handed down in no way meets the seriousness of the violation. Raikkonen suffered more in Montreal for pulling out of the pits in the wrong order! And there are probably countless other examples.

You've read the judgement in full then?
Which part do you disagree with?

#92 Ricardo F1

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:04

Their biggest screw up is not punishing Mercedes for violating the rules. Todt should have handed out a least a two race ban himself instead of hiding behind a tribunal. Even that weirdo Mosley would have done the right thing.

No, the biggest screw up is them not telling Mercedes they couldn't do it beforehand. They sanctioned the damn thing.

Ricardo just think about it for a minute - Raikkonen and Ricciardo each lost two positions and likely points in the race for gaining the slight possibility of an insignificant advantage in qualifying. Whereas Mercedes taking part in a 1000 km mid season test which if properly run would be able to find up to a second a lap on the rest of the field and may be able to cure their rear tire heating problem, huge potential advantages, and they suffer no tangible penalty at all!

It is puzzling to say the least.

How the hell are Mercedes supposed to find a second a lap on next years tyres, without being in control of the test and without being able to test anything new??? As a result of the FIA's incompetence they now lose a TRUE testing opportunity (albeit with not their regular drivers) where they COULD try out a whole bunch of new stuff and get proper data on it.

Seems like they lost out overall.

#93 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:42

You've read the judgement in full then?
Which part do you disagree with?

A pit lane speeding infraction carries a bigger penalty. Impeding in qualifying has a bigger impact.

This was an unrestricted private 3 day 1000km test and no tangible penalty for either Pirelli or Mercedes.

Your question should be which part do I agree with, and my answer would be none of it!

#94 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:59

No, the biggest screw up is them not telling Mercedes they couldn't do it beforehand. They sanctioned the damn thing.

How the hell are Mercedes supposed to find a second a lap on next years tyres, without being in control of the test and without being able to test anything new??? As a result of the FIA's incompetence they now lose a TRUE testing opportunity (albeit with not their regular drivers) where they COULD try out a whole bunch of new stuff and get proper data on it.

Seems like they lost out overall.

How do we know what tires they were using? I wouldn't be believing much of what Pirelli or Mercedes say.

#95 ardbeg

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:25

It's not puzzling at all. The FIA f***ed up, be a bit poor to drag Mercedes over the coals for it don't you think?

Exactly. Also, had they tried to make Merc really suffer, then they would probably be forced to investigate previous private tests as well and it is obvious some transparancy has been missing.

#96 Ricardo F1

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:10

How do we know what tires they were using? I wouldn't be believing much of what Pirelli or Mercedes say.

Ooohh so now this is a whole conspiracy that Mercedes cooked up this test with Pirelli, organized no doubt to have multiple upgrades to the car present and the Pirelli dudes just stood around watching Mercedes perform an in season test of their own? Oh, sorry, I forgot my tin foil hat.

#97 Sakae

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Joined: December 03

Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:19

Verdict is in, and far more interesting question is, what, if anything will change in procedures. Whiting looks just as bad in this as some other decisions taken elsewhere IMO.

#98 Nomore

Member

248 posts
Joined: May 13

Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:38

How old are you? Do you understand anything about legal proceedings?

I'm old enough to understand that this was a clear CHEATING, which did not ended with the appropriate penalty.

But i have the suspicion that you are so "naive" to believe that arrangements, corruption and fixing does not affect a court :smoking:

...i can give you examples in civil and penal court much more shocking than this...
...but always believed that corruption in sport is unnecessary this case confirmed that it exist and it's too strong

The Tribunal is FIA, is elected by FIA, payed by FIA...it's a fully operational instance of FIA.

Never seen a team so openly cheat and get away with it, Mclaren was more "justifiable" because everyone try to copy in F1,but this was too too much
This farce was an arrangement between Jean and Ross to make look it as a misunderstanding. Here you have the explanation why Ross was so calm...everything fixed
They fired Briatore for fixing a race and keep Ross "master cheat" Brawn for fixing a championship ? consistency ?

Edited by Nomore, 22 June 2013 - 09:45.

#99 ardbeg

Member

2,876 posts
Joined: March 13

Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:45

I'm old enough to understand that this was a clear CHEATING, which did not ended with the appropriate penalty.

But i have the suspicion that you are so "naive" to believe that arrangements, corruption and fixing does not affect a court ...i can give you examples in civil and penal court much more shocking than this...
...but always believed that corruption in sport is unnecessary this case confirmed that it exist and it's too strong

The Tribunal is FIA, is elected by FIA, payed by FIA...it's a fully operational instance of FIA.

Never seen a team so openly cheat and get away with it, Mclaren was more "justifiable" because everyone try to copy in F1,but this was too too much
This farce was an arrangement between Jean and Ross to make look it as a misunderstanding. Here you have the explanation why Ross was so calm...everything fixed
They fired Briatore for fixing a race and keep Ross "master cheat" Brawn for fixing a championship ? consistency ?

You said before that you would not watch or follow F1 anymore if you believed FiA was corrupt. Now you are saying that FiA is corrupt, that Ross and Jean made an arrangement (because they are friends from their time at Ferrari?) so I think that it is safe to assume that you have seen your last F1 race? F1 nomore?

I wish you good luck finding another interest, something that is not corrupt at the top. Unfortunately, I have no real suggestion to give you, even chess is ugly behind the scenes.

#100 trogggy

Member

9,216 posts
Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:50

A pit lane speeding infraction carries a bigger penalty. Impeding in qualifying has a bigger impact.

This was an unrestricted private 3 day 1000km test and no tangible penalty for either Pirelli or Mercedes.

Your question should be which part do I agree with, and my answer would be none of it!

Yeah, your opinion trumps the independent tribunal.
They should lose their WCC points for employing Hamilton anyway, eh?

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