JPM: Why didn't it work out for him in F1?

Lol, DC hated jPM for taking his seat at mclaren and was afraid the same thing would happen at RedBull when those rumors started spreading in the paddock.

I think a lot of people forget how heated the criticism of Montoya was during 2006, only elevated to the next level after his collision in his last race.

Edited by ViMaMo, 26 June 2013 - 09:14.

Who won Monza in 2005?....

Thats right but I can recall that Trulli had fever (or some cold) that day.

Then there was the story 0f '05, coming in at McLaren and expected to match Räikkönen. He was very rarely able to do that (remember Monza qualifying, where Räikkönen destroyed him carrying nine or ten laps more fuel?) and before that it was the tennis-accident.....

Edited by P123, 26 June 2013 - 09:17.

I know Montoya won, but then I have to ask you; who had to make an unscheduled, extra pitstop?

JPM was something of an enigma. Superfast when all the stars were properly lined but oddly erratic more often than could reasonably be expected.



This goes to show why I don´t miss JPM at all - he was just a bit more than a Maldonado.

I vividly remember Head's reaction after that one. (...and then he did the same to Räikkönen in '06, and left after.)

Edited by maverick69, 26 June 2013 - 11:07.

...as far as I remember that one, it was more a case of Barrichello hitting him....

Lol, DC hated jPM for taking his seat at mclaren and was afraid the same thing would happen at RedBull when those rumors started spreading in the paddock.

The talk was of pairing JPM with DC, not replacing DC.

For whatever the reason, DC really does come across like he disliked Montoya intensely. In his autobiography, he's often critical of people, for example Ron Dennis or Michael Schumacher but then he tries to consider their actions from the other person's point of view too. But not for JPM! Hecan't bring himself to say much more than bitter, angry sounding fat jokes. Even in the chapter he later wrote for the paperback edition to cover the 2007 season, he was still putting the boot in even after Montoya had left F1.

However, I think it's anyone's guess as to how much his views reveal about Montoya in F1 and how much it just reveals about DC himself.

One guy who I can't help but feel frustrated that he isn't in F1 if not for his regrettable fitness and commitment is Juan Pablo Montoya. I don't know why JV evokes so much memories but JPM held so much promise, perhaps he was badly guided.

Did he quit F1 too early? F1 could have had a very exciting driver, superb qualifier, aggressive racer. I miss him in F1.

If he was committed and really dedicated himself, where could he have been? SV/FA/LH level or as good as someone like JB?

Edited by thiscocks, 26 June 2013 - 12:06.

JPM and DC had a few coming-togethers in '01 and '02, and it was usually when JPM had lost out, but failed to realize he'd lost. That sometimes resulted in him taking them both out.
That pissed DC off, but I think he was really finished with him when Montoya crashed into him in Monaco '05, where DC was on for a sensational result, as he'd been fourth fastest in third free, but then had an uphill task as the updated car got ruined. Montoya blamed DC, which was outlandish.
Silverstone qualifying in '06, he signalled JPM was a wanker, and called him a monkey while interviewed on Silverstone TV, and that was all a bit unnecessary.

Edited by discover23, 26 June 2013 - 14:22.

I only recall them ever having one coming together- when JPM spun and collected DC at the Nurburgring in 2002. JPM apologised for it, and DC acted like an ass in return. Monaco was when JPM slowed into Casino and held up Ralf, although I don't recall if DC was involved. DC did crash in the race, unrelated to Montoya.

Edited by race addicted, 26 June 2013 - 12:57.

Is the one in Canada where he made it three wide NASCAR style? I probably saw this only once or twice and never again, could never find the video on youtube.

We did have a very exciting, superb qualifier and aggressive racer. What makes you think he wasn't committed or dedicated?

I respect him for choosing a different racing series. He had had enough of the F1 way of life so left. Great driver with a no bullshit attitude in the vein of Alan Jones ect..and a driving style much like Nige. He kept the racing interesting during the Schumacher years.

Edited by discover23, 26 June 2013 - 15:20.

Unless you are willing to live, eat and breathe F1 then you will not succeed as a driver. All F1 drivers are drivers with a high level of talent, if you come in and think that your talent can carry you, then you will find that your career will be underwhelming. Juan Pablo Montoya did not seem willing to apply himself as hard as needed, which is why his career in many ways can be seen as a disappointment. Going to NASCAR and ding close to nothing over 6 years, and now being talked about as a possible drop by his team for next season only add to the feeling of

"what could have been if you wanted to".

It did not work out, since he was not willing to work hard enough. He is not the first and will surely not be the last talented driver, who will fall prey to his own attitude towards racing in F1.

It seemed like nobody wanted him when he lost his spark with McLaren. He didn't seem to want to be there, and F1 didn't want him. So for him leaving was in terms of continuing making money racing cars, leaving when he did was a good move.

Did he leave early? No. He looked off his form from 2001-2003. Kimi was the clear number one after the 2005 season, and wasn't going to be retained for 2007, so where would he have gone? The rumor I remember was Red Bull. But I don't see him doing any better than Webber those first couple of years, and would he have been okay doing what he is doing in NASCAR, trudging along mid pack in F1?

I never thought he would win a title. His driving style was his worst enemy. Made too many errors that he could never piece together enough good runs to challenge by the last few races.

Actually I think he would've been retained for 2007 but told the media he was interested in doing NASCAR, Ron threw his toys out of the pram and that was it.

Big mistake moving to McLaren with Ron still there.

Edited by Jovanotti, 26 June 2013 - 16:05.

This post makes me think also of Jan Magnusson

I think the comments about Montoya not being the driver "he was before" at McLaren don't do him justice. He used to have his regular cock-up there, but it's not like he was clean and faultless at Williams. Imo he just got shown up by Räikkönen performance wise, who especially during the McLaren years was head and shoulders above the level Juan had to deal with against Ralf. The fact that Montoya actually was quite close on many occasions proves that he performed just as good as before, but I suppose his 'tennis accident', occasionally being unable to bring solid results home and lastly the crash with his own teammate were just too much for his relationship with the team. As long as he was in F1, he was a very quick driver, and I don't blame him for being put off from F1 by Dennis in the end.

He was much of a muchness compared to Ralf; Ralf was often ahead of him especially when the car was good enough to win, hence why Ralf won more races when they were together.

Edited by discover23, 26 June 2013 - 17:03.

You are Kimi fan so I am not surprised from your comments but if you considered what happened to Kimi and Massa at Ferrari, you would probably understand that perhaps JPM did not excel at Mclaren because reason x,y & z. It is also very obvious to everyone that the 2005 Mclaren fitted Kimi like a glove while JPM was always complaining with the handling despite the team trying to work out these issues.
I have no doubt that Kimi was a better driver than Massa, even during their time together at ferrari, mostly because I looked at his career as a whole, but those years made me realize that he was also a driver vulnerable to adaptation and getting used to new machinery and this reflected on his performance.

Yes, JPM also made mistakes at mclaren, but I don't think this is what people here are referring to when they say he was a different driver in macca. Most are referring to his spark, passion and motivation for racing.. You could see that some of that had been lost after Canada 2005.. Unfortunately, he could not handle this unfriendly environment , he was not very strong mentally and lost motivation when the team and Ron started to turn against him.

In 01 it took Montoya some time to adapt to the F1 cars but after mid-point he already had Ralf covered. In Germany a race that Ralf won, Montoya was far into the distance and Ralf was not even close (Tortoise beats hare). After a 10 second lead JPMs had a fuel problem during the first pit-stop and then his engine failed. In Brazil, JoV takes Montoya out from a sure victory... JPM was rookie of the year against Kimi and Alonso.

Yeah, Dennis is just a massive cock...

In 01 it took Montoya some time to adapt to the F1 cars but after mid-point he already had Ralf covered. In Germany a race that Ralf won, Montoya was far into the distance and Ralf was not even close (Tortoise beats hare). After a 10 second lead JPMs had a fuel problem during the first pit-stop and then his engine failed. In Brazil, JoV takes Montoya out from a sure victory... JPM was rookie of the year against Kimi and Alonso.

In 02, no one came close to Ferrari but Montoya, that race Ralf won in Malaysia was because Shumi took Montoya out at the start of the race from the front row.

In 03. there was a fight going on in the garage during the european races, Montoya threaten to quit the team because Williams was only focusing on Ralf. Do you remember Monaco that year or Silverstone (his charge through the field). More often than not, JPM would always pass Ralf on track and finish ahead.

In 04, I don't think Ralf was even close ..

You‘re quite right, if you compare Ralf‘s actual results with the ones Montoya might have got if everything had gone to plan, Montoya would have had more wins than Ralf. And the scores on the doors, which already favour Montoya, would look even better for him.

Back to reality, though, the reason we got to the European season in 2003 and Williams were focusing on Ralf, is because Ralf was doing what no Williams driver had done since 1997; having a credible tilt at the title. Patrick Head and Sam Michael believed that if they were going to win the title with anyone, Ralf was the better bet. Going into Silverstone, which was the halfway point, Ralf was in a position where a win could have given him the lead and he was the bookies‘ second favourite behind MSC. Montoya never got into that good a position during his time in F1, and he did not have Ralf "covered" which is why he kicked off. Admittedly Ralf‘s title challenge collapsed with a string of DNFs, mostly the team‘s fault with one or two accidents for good measure.

Montoya was better at hustling for points when the car was bad, but he really struggled to match Ralf when the car was at its best. He managed it from time to time. But in order to challenge for the title in that car he could not have afforded to lose any points to his teammate, and he was never capable of beating Ralf on a consistent basis.

Edited by discover23, 26 June 2013 - 18:57.