Mid season form

We reached mid season in F1 and I'd like to know your opinions on which driver/team has performed better so far and what we should expect of the second part of the season.

(In the best drivers poll I only could put 20 drivers so I left out Chilton and van der Garde, if you want to vote for them put it on the comments please)

Edited by st99, 29 July 2013 - 13:34.

Vettel and RB for the other two.

Who admits voting di Resta?

Who admits voting di Resta?

It was me . Asking who 'performed better' is a bit vague. So I considered who is performing better than they did last year and the only real option, imo, is Di Resta. The top drivers (SV, FA, LH and KR) are pretty much the same as last year and others like Maldonado haven't had the car to prove their talents this year.

Honestly the top drivers are all doing a great job this year, it's hard to truly fault any of them and they probably all lie where they should in the championship given their cars. I'll say Vettel just edges it slightly because he's been pretty flawless all season.

Merc has been the fastest car over a lap but Red Bull has been by far the best overall package IMO.

Edited by RockyRaccoon68, 28 July 2013 - 20:01.

It was me . Asking who 'performed better' is a bit vague. So I considered who is performing better than they did last year and the only real option, imo, is Di Resta. The top drivers (SV, FA, LH and KR) are pretty much the same as last year and others like Maldonado haven't had the car to prove their talents this year.

Sorry if the question is vague, what I meant was which driver has been more consistent/better taking in consideration the car they have.

Sorry if the question is vague, what I meant was which driver has been more consistent/better taking in consideration the car they have.

Still vague (better relative to what? To what you expect from them specific/individually or what a run-of-the-mill F1 driver would do?), but maybe you can change the poll to allow multiple options because it would be strange if there was exactly one driver or team who would fit.

Edited by scheivlak, 28 July 2013 - 20:22.

Honestly the top drivers are all doing a great job this year, it's hard to truly fault any of them and they probably all lie where they should in the championship given their cars. I'll say Vettel just edges it slightly because he's been pretty flawless all season.

Merc has been the fastest car over a lap but Red Bull has been by far the best overall package IMO.

Agreed. Even on Vettel, and he got the vote because so far, I think he's having his best season yet. Just to think he's lined up ahead of Webber in all G's P for instance...

Edited by race addicted, 28 July 2013 - 20:32.

Vettel having his best season and being the best up to now. Mercedes the fastes quali car. Red Bull the fastest overall car.

Still vague (better relative to what? To what you expect from them specific/individually or what a run-of-the-mill F1 driver would do?), but maybe you can change the poll to allow multiple options because it would be strange if there was exactly one driver or team who would fit.

About the question, I was thinking about who is getting most out of their car relative to all the other drivers, beating consistently their team mate, staying out of trouble, that kind of things.

Vettel- Merc-RB

Vettel in the driver stakes from Hamilton both have been consistently good
Merc has been the fastest but not the best, RB has been the most consistent car in all conditions
RB, followed by Force India in the team stakes

Vettel/RB as formidable as they've ever been. Clockwork.

Vettel & RB for the other two easily. Only ones who are consistent this year. Even though Merc has a good quali car and Lotus good tyre perfomance, they can not capitalize enough. Too much mistakes in strategies and such.

Vettel/RB as formidable as they've ever been. Clockwork.

Vettel, Red Bull, Red Bull...... bah!

Vettel, maximising everything. Red Bull, not always fastest but the most consistant (either fastest or second fastest). The rest have been up and down.

If u ask me, Mercedes has a faster car then RBR. At least on paper. But RBR did better job so far, theres no doubt about it.

In qualifying, Mercedes has easily been the best. But qualifying hardly matters at most circuits, and Mercedes has been appalling in some races. Red Bull was never in that situation, so of course they have the fastest car.

About the question, I was thinking about who is getting most out of their car relative to all the other drivers, beating consistently their team mate, staying out of trouble, that kind of things.

Can you just rephrase it to "Which driver performed best so far this season?". That's automatically relative to other drivers. "better" is vague since that could be "better than last year", "better than his team mate" etc.

Of late, Hamilton has driven the most impressively, though whether you can say that for the season as a whole I don't know. I find it very hard to pick out a driver who has excelled the most, tbh. Vettel has pretty much slaughtered Webber this year, but there again Webber carries an air of disillusionment at the minute anyway so I don't think he's driving anywhere near the limit of his capabilities.

1. Vettel
2. Very close, probably Red Bull overall. Ferrari were initially better imho, but in the last race(s) dropped back. Merc is "fastest" if you go by fastest lap times, but they were troubled by tyre issues more often than RB (and much more often than Ferrari and Lotus). Lotus is also close but sometimes lack a bit in qualy.
3. Red Bull - They are not leading the WCC by luck, but by team performance. They are not in perfect harmony, but get things right most of the time.

As much as I hate Vettel already, I have to admit he is surely the best performing driver this year so far. Incredibly consistent. He's always there. The fact that he has the overall best package is no justification - sure, it's part of the success, but Vettel's performance and driving is also a big slice of the pie.

Red Bull has the best car overall. Mercedes have great qualifying potential but it didn't mean much back in the day when they were chewing off their rubber on Sundays.

Best team? Red Bull again. Very few errors in the pits (except for Webber in Germany) and very few mistakes regarding strategic calls.

As for the order in terms of pace:

Qualifying: Mercedes, Red Bull, Lotus, Ferrari
Race: Red Bull/Mercedes, Lotus, Ferrari

Edited by Cyanide, 29 July 2013 - 09:19.

Vettel/RBR/RBR

The margins have been fine in all areas (driver pace, car pace, and strategy/teamwork) and there's been no clear outstanding factor winning it for them. But add all small advantages together and that explains a 40-something points lead.

Can you just rephrase it to "Which driver performed best so far this season?". That's automatically relative to other drivers. "better" is vague since that could be "better than last year", "better than his team mate" etc.

Changed it, I hope now it's clear

I'll rate the drivers individually on a scale of 1 (crap) to 10 (excellent).

#01. Sebastian Vettel - 9,0. No mistakes and most consistent of them all. Malaysia wasn't cool though.
#02. Mark Webber - 7,0. In the shadows of Vettel, but still a decent season with solid races. Should have had one win so far.
#03. Fernando Alonso - 8,0. Okay season so far with two wins, mistake in Malaysia cost him another though. Should have had more points, but Ferrari falling back.
#04. Felipe Massa - 5,0. The opposite of last season. Started well with a podium in Spain, but fading away slowly with those crashes. Seat under more threat than ever.
#05. Jenson Button - 7,0. Doing a decent drive with that dog of a car. Good races in China and Hungary, more consistent than Pérez.
#06. Sergio Pérez - 6,5. Okay so far in his first year at a top team. Love his wheel to wheel battles, even with a teammate. Still haven't seen a peak performance yet though.
#07. Kimi Raikkonen - 8,5. Even better than last year. Only Canada and Monaco were poor. Still needs to up his game in quali though.
#08. Romain Grosjean - 6,0. Poor season so far. Only high's in Bahrain and Germany really.
#09. Nico Rosberg - 7,5. Doing well against a highly rated Hamilton. Two wins in the bag, but still lacking that little bit of extra that Hamilton does have.
#10. Lewis Hamilton - 8,0. Consistent season, which he hasn't had in a while. Finally got a well deserved win in Hungary, definitely on a high now.
#11. Nico Hulkenberg - 6,5. Limited by his poor Sauber, but he's been underwhelming a bit as well. Decent start of the season and beating Gutierrez though.
#12. Esteban Gutierrez - 5,0. Not ready for F1 yet. Always around P17, P18 in quali, and not fast enough during the race. Certainly no Pérez yet.
#14. Paul di Resta - 7,5. Great first half of the season with a lot of points finishes. Now comes the hard part for him, performing in the second half of the season.
#15. Adrian Sutil - 7,0. Solid comeback with a lot of bad luck. Definitely as fast as his teammate, if not faster. Needs Lady luck on his side.
#16. Pastor Maldonado - 5,5. - Dismal season so far, though partially because of the car. Nevertheless, missing the sparkle he had last year.
#17. Valtteri Bottas - 7,0. - Solid debut so far, with a great quali in Canada. Also limited by his car, but gives Maldonado a run for his money.
#18. Jean-Eric Vergne - 6,5. - Great in changeable conditions, but still lacking one lap pace compared to Ricciardo. Highlight in Canada for him.
#19. Daniel Ricciardo - 6,5. - Great qualifier, but bad strategy calls have cost him a lot of points. Is that the team's call or his?
#20. Charles Pic - 7,0. - Haven't seen much of him really, but has Van der Garde slightly under control so far.
#21. Giedo van der Garde - 6,5. A bit prone to errors and lacking awareness around blue flags. Keeping up with Pic though.
#22. Max Chilton - 5,0. Not ready for F1. Only there because of his dad. Lacking a lot of pace compared to Bianchi.
#23. Jules Bianchi - 7,0. Surprisingly good debut, but a bit invisible in recent races. Could be because of Marussia's lack of development.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 29 July 2013 - 18:22.

I'll rate the drivers individually on a scale of 1 (crap) to 10 (excellent).

#01. Sebastian Vettel - 9,0. No mistakes and most consistent of them all. Malaysia wasn't cool though.
#02. Mark Webber - 7,0. In the shadows of Vettel, but still a decent season with solid races. Should have had one win so far.
#03. Fernando Alonso - 8,0. Okay season so far with two wins, mistake in Malaysia cost him another though. Should have had more points, but Ferrari falling back.
#04. Felipe Massa - 5,0. The opposite of last season. Started well with a podium in Spain, but fading away slowly with those crashes. Seat under more threat than ever.
#05. Jenson Button - 7,0. Doing a decent drive with that dog of a car. Good races in China and Hungary, more consistent than Pérez.
#06. Sergio Pérez - 6,5. Okay so far in his first year at a top team. Love his wheel to wheel battles, even with a teammate. Still haven't seen a peak performance yet though.
#07. Kimi Raikkonen - 8,5. Even better than last year. Only Canada and Monaco were poor. Still needs to up his game in quali though.
#08. Romain Grosjean - 6,0. Poor season so far. Only high's in Bahrain and Germany really.
#09. Nico Rosberg - 7,5. Doing well against a highly rated Hamilton. Two wins in the bag, but still lacking that little bit of extra that Hamilton does have.
#10. Lewis Hamilton - 8,0. Consistent season, which he hasn't had in a while. Finally got a well deserved win in Hungary, definitely on a high now.
#11. Nico Hulkenberg - 6,5. Limited by his poor Sauber, but he's been underwhelming a bit as well. Decent start of the season and beating Gutierrez though.
#12. Esteban Gutierrez - 5,0. Not ready for F1 yet. Always around P17, P18 in quali, and not fast enough during the race. Certainly no Pérez yet.
#14. Paul di Resta - 7,5. Great first half of the season with a lot of points finishes. Now comes the hard part for him, performing in the second half of the season.
#15. Adrian Sutil - 7,0. Solid comeback with a lot of bad luck. Definitely as fast as his teammate, if not faster. Needs Lady luck on his side.
#16. Pastor Maldonado - 5,5. - Dismal season so far, though partially because of the car. Nevertheless, missing the sparkle he had last year.
#17. Valtteri Bottas - 7,0. - Solid debut so far, with a great quali in Canada. Also limited by his car, but gives Maldonado a run for his money.
#18. Jean-Eric Vergne - 6,5. - Great in changeable conditions, but still lacking one lap pace compared to Ricciardo. Highlight in Canada for him.
#19. Daniel Ricciardo - 6,5. - Great qualifier, but bad strategy calls have cost him a lot of points. Is that the team's call or his?
#20. Charles Pic - 7,0. - Haven't seen much of him really, but has Van der Garde slightly under control so far.
#21. Giedo van der Garde - 6,5. A bit prone to errors and lacking awareness around blue flags. Keeping up with Pic though.
#22. Max Chilton - 5,0. Not ready for F1. Only there because of his dad. Lacking a lot of pace compared to Bianchi.
#23. Jules Bianchi - 7,0. Surprisingly good debut, but a bit invisible in recent races. Could be because of Marussia's lack of development.

shy of bumping Hamilton up to 8.5, Bianchi to 7.5 and Button to 7.5, I think you're spot on

Seb is a great guy. Although I made him laugh on Thursday, it doesn't mean I would vote for him. I know it's a bit tough from watching TV, but you can see with your naked eyes on track how bad that Ferrari is now. Compared to RB, Lotus or Mercedes, especially to the first two it is undriveable. It is similiar to Caterham which has terrific understeer. Ferrari have a good top speed and very stable under braking, but traction and mid speed stability are nowhere.

You can't compare Fernando to Vettel, the Spaniard has to trick every single corner to make the car work, they just don't have the same machinery. Lewis and Fernando are underrated, you need to look at Lewis, he got the right car this time, didn't put a foot wrong and dominated the weekend. Fernando would do the same in a normal car.

I don't believe anyone could match Ferrari's traction out of T1. Their traction in second, third gear corners seemed great to me. Massa and Alonso always pulled away.

Seb is a great guy. Although I made him laugh on Thursday, it doesn't mean I would vote for him. I know it's a bit tough from watching TV, but you can see with your naked eyes on track how bad that Ferrari is now. Compared to RB, Lotus or Mercedes, especially to the first two it is undriveable. It is similiar to Caterham which has terrific understeer. Ferrari have a good top speed and very stable under braking, but traction and mid speed stability are nowhere.

You can't compare Fernando to Vettel, the Spaniard has to trick every single corner to make the car work, they just don't have the same machinery. Lewis and Fernando are underrated, you need to look at Lewis, he got the right car this time, didn't put a foot wrong and dominated the weekend. Fernando would do the same in a normal car.

Ferrari has great traction, you can see it from every start they make and every overtake they do. Also Lotus isn't that stable as you say, Kimi had huge difficulties all weekend, check his last corner difficulties...lots of understeering on other places. Comparing Caterham to Ferrari? You got to be kidding...
Lewis and Fernando underrated ? , no they are not...they are widely thought best or among the best, they are not underrated at all. Fernando has normal car, Vettel too has normal car, it just happends to be more complite than Ferrari.

Edited by Vesuvius, 29 July 2013 - 21:39.

Vettel. This one is easy.

The fastest car is harder to pick because every top team - Ferrari, Lotus, Red Bull and Mercedes -- was the fastest at some point. The form differed from race to race. Mercedes is definitely the fastest qualifying car, though, so I picked them.

Red Bull. They were far from flawless, but overall, they are easily the most consistent team.

It's no coincidence that the leading picks are a mirror of the WCC/WDC standings.

Have to say it's a tie between Vettel and Raikkonen.

Vettel has been very consistent never finishing below 4th, but I think Raikkonen has been just as consistent but with a car that hasn't been as consistent as the Red-Bull.

Looking at his 3 race dip in form at Monaco, Montreal and Silverstone, Monaco he was P5 until he got Perez'd and somehow made it back into the points, Montreal the car was crap that weekend still managed to make the points, and Silverstone the team messed up the strategy (which Raikkonen at the time seemed to know was the wrong call) and cost him a P2.

So yeah I've yet to see either Vettel or Raikkonen make what I would call a mistake on track so I'd put them as the class of the field at the moment.

Edited by bimmeric, 02 August 2013 - 20:53.

Vettel and Raikkonen as far as drivers are concerned.

Fastest car is Red Bull. Absolutely don't agree with Mercedes. It's not enough to be fastest just on qualy. Fastest means you have to be the fastest over the entire race distance and quali, all combined. Red Bull is the most all-round car. Until 4 races or so back, it looked like Ferrari was the best, but they have laid egg since then.

The team that has performed best is Lotus in my view. They have been the most overachieving team for the past two years. I have gone by the performance generated with the budget a team is able to generate. That team is fighting being on the verge of going broke constantly. I have got great respect for that team. I hope they win a championship pretty soon. Red Bull is next.

It's no coincidence that the leading picks are a mirror of the WCC/WDC standings.

Which is not a surprise for several reasons (top drivers being in the top cars, good drives are usually awarded with more points etc.). What is interesting is that almost all votes go to just 3 drivers: Vettel, who has been the best so far imho, Kimi for his consistency and Lewis for his recent good races with the hope of finally turning the Merc into a WDC challenger.

FErrari is fourth best car atm. Horrible development of the car that used to be class of its own in four first races, where Fernando didnt win all of em due to wrong tactic or bad luck. From Monaco onwards their car went god damn ******, and imo the car is worse than it was in Barcelona.
They should be ashmed and the heads should roll.

Best team atm is RBR, and driver is Seb.

Vettel hit Button in Hungary, and damaged his front wing. He's crap

Vettel hit Button in Hungary, and damaged his front wing. He's crap

Vettel has been the most impressive driver so far. He hasn't had bad performances so far.

Merc is the fastest car in absolute pace but RBR is the best car overall. And RBR are leading the WCC so they've performed best.

Red Bull is the fastest. Red Bull team in general is also the best team, very solid.

As for driver, hard to tell. I voted Alonso.

Vettel has been very solid. He might not stand out as much this year, but I struggle to find an example of a mistake he made. He was a bit of a jerk in Malaysia, though. Raikkonen has been very consistent as well: honourable mention.

Red Bull has been consistently near the top. Maybe not always the fastest, but the most solid car of the field. Mercedes has made progress, winning quite a few races. Lotus and Ferrari are too hit or miss to really make an impact.

Hard to say which team has performed better. Red Bull did some weird things, though usually affecting only Webber. I think most teams have made mistakes. Voted Red Bull for putting always such a great car on the grid.

As an side, the lack of votes for Ferrari and Alonso is very telling. This is not a good year for them: too inconsistent, silly mistakes, seemingly behind in the development race.

Am surprised to see Alonso with very few votes

Am surprised to see Alonso with very few votes

Most people are porbably comparing his performance to last year's and come to the conclusion, that he hasn't been that great this season? In fact, he's only third in the standings.

Am surprised to see Alonso with very few votes

The question is Which driver performed best so far this season? I think there is only one answer to that: Vettel. It's not Räikkönen, it's not Hamilton, it's not Alonso. Vettel has been most consistent in the qualifying and in the race.

The question is Which driver performed best so far this season? I think there is only one answer to that: Vettel. It's not Räikkönen, it's not Hamilton, it's not Alonso. Vettel has been most consistent in the qualifying and in the race.

Vettel's been best in qualifying to some extent - beaten Webber on all occasions.

In the races, well Webber's consistently making up places despite numerous set backs, Lewis has been faultless I think. Raikkonen has been quite faultless.

Vettel:
- Lost some front wing in Hun
- Hit wall in Canada
- Went off at T1 in Canada

To say he has been the best so unequivocally would be to look at the championship tables only, but (to beat a dead horse for kicks) Lewis vs. Jenson should more than tell us that the tables are not always completely reflective. (2012... come on)

Edited by SCEPurple, 05 August 2013 - 12:03.

Lewis has been faultless I think. Raikkonen has been quite faultless.

Vettel:
- Lost some front wing in Hun
- Hit wall in Canada
- Went off at T1 in Canada

I'm sorry, but would you mind if I request that if you want to take make such an argument, you read up a bit more?
You name 3 tiny things that make you state Vettel has not been faultless, yet then go and claim Lewis and Kimi (quite) are?
If something so insignificant is your definition of not faultless, you can't make that claim about Lewis and Kimi.

Edited by mnmracer, 05 August 2013 - 12:17.

For me the driver´s performance overall ranking by now is:

Vettel
Räikkönen
Hamilton
Alonso

The car´s performance (not only speed) overall ranking by now is:

RB
The other top 3 teams too close to call. Ferrari started stronger but it´s fading. Mercedes started quite bad and it´s shinning, and Lotus has been always thereabouts.

The team´s performance overall ranking by now is:

RB
Mercedes
Lotus
Ferrari

So voted Vettel, RB, RB.

Am surprised to see Alonso with very few votes

I'm surprised as well, I don't think he has been the best this season but he has only one more vote than Maldonado

Am surprised to see Alonso with very few votes

I'm surprised as well, I don't think he has been the best this season but he has only one more vote than Maldonado

That's because the vote is for the one best driver.
If you have driver #1 who is the fastest, and driver #2 who is 0.001 second faster, than any poll asking "who is the fastest" will still show only one winner.
A good example is the team boss poll from last year: Alonso was voted the best, because he was, but it didn't say anything about Vettel and Hamilton.
Or the pole position for Hungary: there was only 0.038 between Lewis and Vettel, but in the end, Lewis had 1 pole that day, and Vettel had 0, just as many as Chilton.

In cases where there is only one 'winner' answer, poll results are no real indication of who's second or third, and how much better or worse they are.

Edited by mnmracer, 05 August 2013 - 14:23.

That's because the vote is for the one best driver.
If you have driver #1 who is the fastest, and driver #2 who is 0.001 second faster, than any poll asking "who is the fastest" will still show only one winner.
A good example is the team boss poll from last year: Alonso was voted the best, because he was, but it didn't say anything about Vettel and Hamilton.
Or the pole position for Hungary: there was only 0.038 between Lewis and Vettel, but in the end, Lewis had 1 pole that day, and Vettel had 0, just as many as Chilton.

In cases where there is only one 'winner' answer, poll results are no real indication of who's second or third, and how much better or worse they are.

the second is the first loser

I'm sorry, but would you mind if I request that if you want to take make such an argument, you read up a bit more?
You name 3 tiny things that make you state Vettel has not been faultless, yet then go and claim Lewis and Kimi (quite) are?
If something so insignificant is your definition of not faultless, you can't make that claim about Lewis and Kimi.

Well, I have watched every race this year so far, and I can not remember anything as of the time of writing where I feel you could say Vettel has been so clearly superior to the other main protagonists. I actually did say that I felt Vettel had done best in qualifying, under the assumption that in qualifying trim, the Red Bull has generally been the 2nd fastest car.

However, in the races, he has been great, sure, but then by virtue of his drives, how has he been better say, than Lewis? Perhaps tyre management in... Malaysia, but.. tyre management is so car specific it's hardly even fair to compare.

Okay, let's look at overtaking instead then. Vettel's made some exceptional passes to get into clear air early in the race (usually getting past a sluggish Mercedes) but in those circumstances, many people would overtake the Mercedes. Looking at the last race, Hungary - Lewis dispatched Jenson immediately, whereas Vettel took 12 laps. Is that because Hamilton has driven better? Well, not entirely, the Merc just had a better top speed than the RB. Although, Lewis' moves later on Webber were very good, but so was Vettel's eventual pass on Button.

On reflection I would say Lewis hasn't been as faultless due to 2 things: He has not beaten Nico on every occasion, and he did not keep close enough to Nico in Monaco to avoid the Red Bull safety car debacle. But Lewis hasn't essentially crashed twice and has had a new car to adapt to. Vettel could have very easily gained a puncture or broken suspension in that race Likewise Alonso/Kimi have been quite similar, mostly getting the best from the car in the race (arguably not Monaco for Alonso) and generally beating their team mate.

All I am saying is, there is nothing so clear to say Vettel has been unequivocally best.

Edited by SCEPurple, 05 August 2013 - 18:39.