U.S.A.F. personnel racing in the UK
#1
Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:55
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#2
Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:46
If the former, the only one I recall is Commander Bryant, whose name was commemorated in an annual race. Maybe Frank Griswold, too
If the latter, it must be possible to trace them through US military records - at least up to their discharge
#3
Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:01
Roger Lund
#4
Posted 08 August 2013 - 10:39
http://www.fold3.com/
The Stars & Stripes Archive - free to search and with day passes available - might also be helpful:
http://www.stripes.c...ervice/archives
#5
Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:08
"Unfortunately, towards the end of this heat the American driver, Lieut.-Comdr. A H Bryant, overturned his Aston Martin at Druids Corner. The driver was killed instantly."
Stephen
#6
Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:15
#7
Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:27
#8
Posted 08 August 2013 - 14:52
#9
Posted 08 August 2013 - 16:11
#10
Posted 08 August 2013 - 20:10
#11
Posted 08 August 2013 - 21:23
Geoff Butcher, h4887, is your man to check for poss GInetta use in USA, as many servicemen took their little cars home with them, and he may be able to trace history of any G3s, as they made precious few. Otherwise Peter Leigh Davies may be able help. Geoff prob has his no., otherwise I can help next week.
Roger Lund
Edited by bradbury west, 08 August 2013 - 21:24.
#12
Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:47
Many thanks for the advise, I shall follow this up as time allows. Obviously there was a lot of U.S servicemen who spent their weekends racing, as usual the ones I am interested in are quite obscure and possibly only took part at club level. The first is Dan Hastings (3909th Operational Squadron Lakenheath) who rallied a Morgan (Possibly KWP 341) in 1952. The other is a Medic based at Bentwaters named Doug Sampta; who in the early sixties raced a Ginetta G3. Did either of these gentlemen continue competing on their return home?
Found these:
http://www.brandywin...BMC-Meeting.pdf
http://www.racingspo...stings-USA.html
Vince H.
#13
Posted 09 August 2013 - 07:42
Copyright Autosport.
#14
Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:39
#15
Posted 10 August 2013 - 00:34
That's where the Frank Grsiwold bell-ringing in my head must have come from
And not because he won the first-ever Watkins Glen Grand Prix in 1948 in an Alfa-Romeo Coupe?
Stu
#16
Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:00
#17
Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:54
#18
Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:39
Two different men:And not because he won the first-ever Watkins Glen Grand Prix in 1948 in an Alfa-Romeo Coupe?
Frank Tracy Griswold, Jr. (1914–1969), the racing driver,
and Francis Hopkinson Griswold (1904-1989), the USAF general (& deputy to Curtis LeMay).
Edited by ReWind, 10 August 2013 - 11:08.
#19
Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:02
http://motorsportmem...hp?db=ct&n=4211
DCN
Edited by Doug Nye, 10 August 2013 - 08:05.
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#20
Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:05
Roger Lund
#21
Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:44
#22
Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:15
If he had been based at a USAAF base I assume we'd had heard more about him. If he was that useful as a driver, he would have won a few more. (Mind you, most of the field in those Snetterton libre races was made up of Jim Russell Formula Ford hopefuls.)
#23
Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:40
Thanks Reinhard. I jumped to a conclusion back then. Should have known better, though in my defence I think I can say I've only ever heard of three people called Griswold, and if two of them are called Frank it's surely a forgivable error!Two different men:
Frank Tracy Griswold, Jr. (1914–1969), the racing driver,
and Francis Hopkinson Griswold (1904-1989), the USAF general (& deputy to Curtis LeMay).
#24
Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:40
DCN
Edited by Doug Nye, 10 August 2013 - 11:44.
#25
Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:43
Roger Lund
#26
Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:09
Nicanary - Maybe recallng Jack Smith...though he was a Canadian and his Brabham was later Tasman Climax engined?
DCN
Doesn't ring a bell. I think it was a rather more exotic name, and I recall the local press report the next day (the rather excellent Eastern Daily Press who used to regularly win awards as a provincial newspaper) named him definitely as a visiting American.
I would have thought that if he was based at Lakenheath or whatever, he would have turned up again from time to time - you wouldn't have such a car and not use it. Never heard about him from that day, though.
#27
Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:39
He was a member of the fledging Emergency Services at Silverstone, something for which he was well equipped, since he was on the fire service in the USAF on the aforementioned Upper Heyford base. He would turn up at Silverstone complete with his aluminiumised fire entry suit and would regail us of tales of collecting debris from a typical airbase accident - two bags, one for the aircraft one for the pilot!
He taught me a huge amount about tackling fires - it's not called fire fighting for nothing was one of his favourite sayings - and he would certainly be a character I would look for.
#28
Posted 11 August 2013 - 17:54
#29
Posted 11 August 2013 - 19:55
#30
Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:24
From my battered autograph book, Raymond L Caides '121' from Oulton Park, 56 or 57; seem to recall an American saloon car lurching round Old Hall, causing great entertainment. I rather think that there was an American Forces input into a regular club meeting. On a more sombre note I also remember Commander Arthur Bryant's accident, even though I was only nine or ten then.
See my earlier post. Rock & Roll
#31
Posted 12 August 2013 - 17:51
Raymond L. Cordes, in a Plymouth & the car did roll around a bit, going off track occasionally, eventually a stub axle broke. I was there & I think it was 1956. I believe Cmdr. Bryant's accident was in practice in a DB3s.From my battered autograph book, Raymond L Caides '121' from Oulton Park, 56 or 57; seem to recall an American saloon car lurching round Old Hall, causing great entertainment. I rather think that there was an American Forces input into a regular club meeting. On a more sombre note I also remember Commander Arthur Bryant's accident, even though I was only nine or ten then.
A 300sl won the sports car race driven by Tony Brooks I think. It was a long time ago. British Empire Trophy race meeting maybe?
#32
Posted 12 August 2013 - 18:25
Raymond L. Cordes, in a Plymouth & the car did roll around a bit, going off track occasionally, eventually a stub axle broke. I was there & I think it was 1956...A 300sl won the sports car race driven by Tony Brooks I think. It was a long time ago. British Empire Trophy race meeting maybe?
This one:
http://www.racingspo...9-22-11889.html
Vince H.
#33
Posted 12 August 2013 - 18:48
Yes, 22nd September 1956, the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting: Tony Brooks drove Rob Walker's 300SL to overall victory in the Saloon & GT cars race. This can be fixed as it was the only time he raced the car according to his autobiography Poetry in Motion.Raymond L. Cordes, in a Plymouth & the car did roll around a bit, going off track occasionally, eventually a stub axle broke. I was there & I think it was 1956. I believe Cmdr. Bryant's accident was in practice in a DB3s.
A 300sl won the sports car race driven by Tony Brooks I think. It was a long time ago. British Empire Trophy race meeting maybe?
Edited by D-Type, 12 August 2013 - 18:51.
#34
Posted 12 August 2013 - 19:03
#35
Posted 12 August 2013 - 19:08
Thanks for that, I hadn't realised it was the Gold Cup meeting but I see Cordes is listed on the previous posters link to results.Yes, 22nd September 1956, the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting: Tony Brooks drove Rob Walker's 300SL to overall victory in the Saloon & GT cars race. This can be fixed as it was the only time he raced the car according to his autobiography Poetry in Motion.
The event when Tony Brooks won was the day Cordes wheel departed the Plymouth,, I don't recall him at another meeting, but maybe.
I now think the fatal accident with the Aston DB3s was earlier in the season, maybe that was the Empire Trophy race meeting with more sports racing cars entered.... SMoss etc.
#36
Posted 12 August 2013 - 19:27
Yeah! Remember! Me also, mainly for the sight of the Plymouth & the disappointment when it stopped coming around, later in the paddock I saw it on 3 wheels.I couldn't tell you what I for lunch on Saturday, but I can remember that race meeting!!
Also I recall Tony Brooks getting out of the Gullwing having just won so easily, but I didn't collect autographs.
Looking at raceannouncers link, it's amazing what cars contested that event. I remember Patsy Burt in the Aston looked so quick up Clay Hill, & the other lasting impression was from the 500cc
race, cars swimming in oil & with out of shape steering wheels, lots of effort to drive them I guess back in the day.
Not sure what I had for lunch today either!
#37
Posted 12 August 2013 - 19:58
#38
Posted 12 August 2013 - 20:31
Ivor Bueb in a 150S was second to Brooks who won by a country mile. I was there having only 14 days left of freedom. reported to 7 Training Regiment, Royal Signals at Catterick Camp on 6 October. But I did get to know the Mad Major later in my service!Yeah! Remember! Me also, mainly for the sight of the Plymouth & the disappointment when it stopped coming around, later in the paddock I saw it on 3 wheels.
Also I recall Tony Brooks getting out of the Gullwing having just won so easily, but I didn't collect autographs.
Looking at raceannouncers link, it's amazing what cars contested that event. I remember Patsy Burt in the Aston looked so quick up Clay Hill, & the other lasting impression was from the 500cc
race, cars swimming in oil & with out of shape steering wheels, lots of effort to drive them I guess back in the day.
Not sure what I had for lunch today either!
#39
Posted 12 August 2013 - 21:49
1956 is too early for an XK150s (if that's what you mean). The record that it was an XK140 is correct - but it may have been an XK140S.Ivor Bueb in a 150S was second to Brooks who won by a country mile. I was there having only 14 days left of freedom. reported to 7 Training Regiment, Royal Signals at Catterick Camp on 6 October. But I did get to know the Mad Major later in my service!
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#40
Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:29
1956 is too early for an XK150s (if that's what you mean). The record that it was an XK140 is correct - but it may have been an XK140S.
Memory playing tricks sorry! It was 47 years ago, though on 150s how things change, a friends father bought one of the first and I remember seeing 130 on the clock on the road from Chelford to Macclesfield. Can you imagine a present day insurance company's reaction to allowing a couple of 19 year olds on the road in an F type, fully comprehensive?
#41
Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:29
#42
Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:53
Pedantry alert: 57 years ago!
See what meant about memory, but that error was down to arithmetic, 71 years ago Ratty Boulton, Gawd Bless 'er, would have cracked me across my knuckles with a ruler for that.
#43
Posted 13 August 2013 - 16:25
I also spent time as a reluctant temporary guest of The Royal Corps Of Signals at Caterick Camp and recall that most of the Majors that I came across seemed to be mad. In fact most of the permanent occupants from Lance Corporal upwards seemed to be lunatics!. It could be a grim place.Ivor Bueb in a 150S was second to Brooks who won by a country mile. I was there having only 14 days left of freedom. reported to 7 Training Regiment, Royal Signals at Catterick Camp on 6 October. But I did get to know the Mad Major later in my service!
#44
Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:51
I also spent time as a reluctant temporary guest of The Royal Corps Of Signals at Caterick Camp and recall that most of the Majors that I came across seemed to be mad. In fact most of the permanent occupants from Lance Corporal upwards seemed to be lunatics!. It could be a grim place.
We know we have a common history Eric, did you go on to 1TR where Bobo Townson held sway? Bobo was a corruption of Popo, he could do anything if somebody else pulled the string!
#45
Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:03
Afraid that name rings no bells. I started off at 26th Sigs, Vimy Lines. May 1960 a little after your time?. One bloke I do remember was a wreck of a man named Cliff. A Lance Jack in the Medical Corps, who was like a walking decomposing corpse, shambling about, smoking a fag and usually gasping for breath. Typically, he worked in the Medical Centre and was assistant coach of the Regimental football team!.We know we have a common history Eric, did you go on to 1TR where Bobo Townson held sway? Bobo was a corruption of Popo, he could do anything if somebody else pulled the string!
#46
Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:45
Bobo was 2 Squadron commander, he was a major. The lance jack I remember best was Kenny Scotland, the Scottish full back who was, so we were told, not allowed to take a commission as he was too valuable to the regimental XV (we won the Army Cup year after year). Kenny spent his entire national service as postings corporal, working 1 day per fortnight. Only in the British Army. The "Mad Major" I referred to was Arthur Mallock who was my CO for a short time.Afraid that name rings no bells. I started off at 26th Sigs, Vimy Lines. May 1960 a little after your time?. One bloke I do remember was a wreck of a man named Cliff. A Lance Jack in the Medical Corps, who was like a walking decomposing corpse, shambling about, smoking a fag and usually gasping for breath. Typically, he worked in the Medical Centre and was assistant coach of the Regimental football team!.
#47
Posted 14 August 2013 - 14:58
Sorry, I should have twigged who that particular Mad Major was, for that was how he was known around the circuits at the time. I shall now put myself on a charge!.Bobo was 2 Squadron commander, he was a major. The lance jack I remember best was Kenny Scotland, the Scottish full back who was, so we were told, not allowed to take a commission as he was too valuable to the regimental XV (we won the Army Cup year after year). Kenny spent his entire national service as postings corporal, working 1 day per fortnight. Only in the British Army. The "Mad Major" I referred to was Arthur Mallock who was my CO for a short time.
(I think this has gone a tad O.T for most!).
#48
Posted 14 August 2013 - 15:20
Sorry, I should have twigged who that particular Mad Major was, for that was how he was known around the circuits at the time. I shall now put myself on a charge!.
(I think this has gone a tad O.T for most!).
It can't be that far off thread as at least we have service personnel in racing and the last referred to in your post founded a marque which must at some stage been used by a member of the USAF
#49
Posted 14 August 2013 - 15:50
"One such friend was Steve Wilder, another American in Europe who somehow had forgotten to go home. He had been based in England with the American Army and so enjoyed the motor sporting club life that he stayed on when he was demobbed and got himself a a 1500 Super Porsche.."
Wilder drove his Porsche (and sometimes Jack Burke's Carrera in sprints and races.
Hope that helps.
Now I've got to stop reading the rest of the book.
#50
Posted 14 August 2013 - 18:38
At the same time his buddy Jim Haynes raced an F2 Cooper T43, though whether he was a military man I don't know