Webber turned down Ferrari for 2013

In an interview with James Allen before the race yesterday, Mark said Luca was extremely keen for him to drive for Ferrari in '13 but he turned them down.

Hypothetically, if he had taken the offer, how would that have effected the driver market?

I don't think Red Bull would have taken Ricciardo as he would have been a bit too green.

Would Lewis be in a RB now instead of a Merc?

Edited by lbennie, 09 September 2013 - 04:13.

I dont think they would have hired Ricciardo. 

Its hard to say really. I doubt they would hire Lewis either because he's a driver who many feel is faster than Vettel.

I dont think they would have hired Ricciardo. 

Its hard to say really. I doubt they would hire Lewis either because he's a driver who many feel is faster than Vettel.

If RBR feel Lewis is faster than Vettel and could achieve more for the team, they would certainly have hired Lewis. But Vettel and Webber have managed to deliver maximum results in the last 3 years, so what motivation did Red Bull have to change a winning combination?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Its hard to say really. I doubt they would hire Lewis either because he's a driver who many feel is faster than Vettel.

So you are suggesting Red Bull are deliberately handicapping themselves by building the team around a worse driver that is even unpopular as well ? I can see the logic behind not signing someone who would be "too close" (possibly resulting in a repeat of McLaren 2007), but why turn down a new, better no. 1 driver ?

That was interesting, he made it quite clear that Luca was pushing for it to happen.

I'd assume replacing Massa, so would have Massa been a swap to Red Bull?

Not a bad fit really, some will argue but he's fast and plays the number 2 much more obediently than Webber.

At least for a year or 2 till they sorted out a junior program driver

I've followed Mark's career closely over the years and from what i can gather he had an approach from Ferrari shortly after Massa accident in July 09,he was again sounded out mid season 2010 and Mark has now also confirmed LdM personally approached him for a 2 year deal in 2012.I guess we will have to wait  for his book to see all the exact facts but MPO is he will regret in his later years not taking the opportunity to drive for Ferrari. 

not bad for a no.2 driver 

i doubt mark would've had a 'equal term' contract judging by his performance last couple of years. as it stands, mark webber is the best of the '2nd driver' roster. also i have to wonder how much influence Alonso would have had trying to convince LDM in getting MW as a replacement of FM. 

plot thickens 

So you are suggesting Red Bull are deliberately handicapping themselves by building the team around a worse driver that is even unpopular as well ? I can see the logic behind not signing someone who would be "too close" (possibly resulting in a repeat of McLaren 2007), but why turn down a new, better no. 1 driver ?

They wouldn't hire a driver who will spend all season fighting with their other driver. 

If Hamilton was in the other seat in 2012 its very possible neither would have won the title.

So if he was so badly treated at RB like some say why did he turned down Ferrari, where he would drive with his friend Alonso?

Presumably if he already had a fairly good idea that he would be joining Porsche for their Le Mans efforts then Ferrari wasn't really a feasible option for only one year, regardless of what things are or aren't like at Red Bull.

i doubt mark would've had a 'equal term' contract judging by his performance last couple of years. as it stands, mark webber is the best of the '2nd driver' roster. also i have to wonder how much influence Alonso would have had trying to convince LDM in getting MW as a replacement of FM. 

Agreed that FA would have liked his friend besides him, but I think Mark felt he had a better shot at the title in a team he already knows than being back up to Alonso.

Also depending when Mark was asked to join Ferrari? Cause if it was around or before Britain 2012, he still had a shot at the title then, so obviously he didn't want to upset the RB camp and his title chances with plans of leaving.

Red Bull would have signed Kimi. They had talks last year already in case Mark left.

They wouldn't hire a driver who will spend all season fighting with their other driver. 

 

If Hamilton was in the other seat in 2012 its very possible neither would have won the title.

Again this is championship mentality getting in the way of the racing.  Constructors ought not care about the drivers' title.  If the constructors' title put a proper emphasis on the team then perhaps they wouldn't.

As it is, the benefit of having number 1 on the car is negated by the fact that it's impossible to see at racing speed...

Webber re signed with Red Bull after Silverstone 2012 when he was outperforming Seb and leading him in the title. He re signed to get a fair run at the title. 

So if he was so badly treated at RB like some say why did he turned down Ferrari, where he would drive with his friend Alonso?

Why leave a team which has the best car with the best operators? He would have better chances to win races in the Red Bull than the Ferrari. Plus there would be plenty of other details in the contracts that they may not agree on. It won't be purely down to how he is treated by senior management - if you think about the rest of the team, he has worked with some of the employees since the Jaguar days and would have great relationships with them.

Edited by v@sh, 09 September 2013 - 08:53.

If RBR feel Lewis is faster than Vettel and could achieve more for the team, they would certainly have hired Lewis. But Vettel and Webber have managed to deliver maximum results in the last 3 years, so what motivation did Red Bull have to change a winning combination?

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

and that is why RB declined Hamilton's services when he offered them last year.

So you are suggesting Red Bull are deliberately handicapping themselves by building the team around a worse driver that is even unpopular as well ? I can see the logic behind not signing someone who would be "too close" (possibly resulting in a repeat of McLaren 2007), but why turn down a new, better no. 1 driver ?

You kind of answered your own question. Vettel can deliver the goods so why have 2 No.1 drivers? Schumacher/Ferrari proved it's the way to go winning championships

But Mark did worse than Massa in the second half of 2012.. Massa and Webber are about the same.. Massa has better starts but is less consistant and Webber goes backwards at the starts, find himself in the mid-pack and has to recover throughout the race ..I don't think it was big gain for Ferrari to be honest. 

 As much as I like Webber, I don't think he's performed well enough for Ferrari to really justify him.  Maybe a few years ago.

Mark actually made a good career move staying with RBR, also i think the porche drive is more important to him than ferrari. "When porche calls, you pickup the phone".

erm, he's not in love with modern f1, changing teams won't fix what he hates about f1

If RBR feel Lewis is faster than Vettel and could achieve more for the team, they would certainly have hired Lewis. But Vettel and Webber have managed to deliver maximum results in the last 3 years, so what motivation did Red Bull have to change a winning combination?

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Exactly, I honestly don't rate Hamilton higher as Vettel.

Anyone know why Mark stopped the car after the Monza Chequered flag?.

he's not in love with modern f1

I think thats sadly true. It comes across too obviously as well.

Was nice to hear him get a big cheer on the Monza podium becuase I dont think theres many high points for him nowdays.

Edit: Ian G, might have been fuel related as they suggested that was the reason for the short shifting of both cars during the race. Didnt bother readnig any of the wash up since so maybe that idea has already been debunked??

Edited by Brother Fox, 09 September 2013 - 23:20.

, might have been fuel related as they suggested that was the reason for the short shifting of both cars during the race. Didnt bother readnig any of the wash up since so maybe that idea has already been debunked??

I heard Brundle speculate that and also may have been G/box.,just thought RB may have given a reason that i missed,Mark made a beeline straight for the RHS of the track to park the car which is an unusual move. 

I can absolutley confirm that I dont know then

I heard Brundle speculate that and also may have been G/box.,just thought RB may have given a reason that i missed,Mark made a beeline straight for the RHS of the track to park the car which is an unusual move.

erm, he's not in love with modern f1, changing teams won't fix what he hates about f1

I agree with him, but also.. the more improved aspects of F1 these days are things that the fan can enjoy from an outside point of view, rather than the driver.  From a driver's point of view.. they've just made it worse.

Webber has never been as competitive in the Pirelli tyre era. I doubt he forgot how to drive overnight, he's just the type of driver who drives on the edge

Webber has never been as competitive in the Pirelli tyre era. I doubt he forgot how to drive overnight, he's just the type of driver who drives on the edge

I think both him and Lewis had the edge taken off when they switched to Pirellis.

 

I think both him and Lewis Massa had the edge taken off when they switched to Pirellis.

lewis had no prolem, did u watch 2011 and 2012??? it's mclaren's blunders that hampered Lewis more than anything. 

lewis had no prolem, did u watch 2011 and 2012??? it's mclaren's blunders that hampered Lewis more than anything. 

Actually, if you read Hugh's article for the BBC back in 2011 where he compared the top five contenders, Lewis did have some minor problems - which was also the reason why Button fared well against Lewis - but no it is nowhere near as pronounced as Webber. I agree with McLaren's blunders though, he should have won it last year when McLaren IMO had the fastest car (McLaren had a bit of a form dip as well) but their operations at the track were pretty poor. Something that Red Bull get wrong from time to time but nowhere near the amount of times McLaren screwed up.

Lewis is fantastic, don't get me wrong, i just think his driving hasn't been quite as spectacular since pirelli came in.

Lewis was amazing on grooved tyres. 

Again this is championship mentality getting in the way of the racing.  Constructors ought not care about the drivers' title.  If the constructors' title put a proper emphasis on the team then perhaps they wouldn't.

 

As it is, the benefit of having number 1 on the car is negated by the fact that it's impossible to see at racing speed...

What could they do to put "proper emphasis" on the constructors title?  It's the fans who care so much more about the drivers title.  It's a lot easier for most people to support an individual than to support a corporate entity that is a modern F1 team.  Most fans will follow their favorite drivers no matter what team they go to (with the possible exception of Ferrari fans)

lewis hasn't been the same driving, dunno how mark has changed, but itshurt him, sure

I would have love to have seen Webber in a Ferrari this year.

Shame, really.

Webs and Fern would have made a really good combo.

Nice to see Mark dispelling the evil Dr Marko is evil and is mistreating Webber myth

So if he was so badly treated at RB like some say why did he turned down Ferrari, where he would drive with his friend Alonso?

You could ask this of all long-term 'second' drivers.  I imagine that the answer will be along the lines that they went to whichever team gave them the best chance at clinching a championship.  Webber will not have thought of himself as a #2 driver, except maybe when he woke in small hours of the night and saw with some clarity where he really was, so will have signed up with the outfit most capable of allowing him podiums, wins and championships.  That was not Ferrari.

Nice to see Mark dispelling the evil Dr Marko is evil and is mistreating Webber myth

There's another part where he talks about leaving RBR and how it was announced. Less sarcastic there...

Edited by showtime, 28 January 2014 - 14:12.

Nice to see Mark dispelling the evil Dr Marko is evil and is mistreating Webber myth

I believe he was being sarcastic Ethan.

Uh wasn't that quote "Helmut had been very kind in giving me one-year contracts for a long time - even after fighting for the title in 2010, which was impressive..." an extreme dose of sarcasm...?

I believe he was being sarcastic Ethan.

My first thought too but then the sentence somehow didn't make sense to me. Read it three times and that part still didn't make sense to me.

Uh wasn't that quote "Helmut had been very kind in giving me one-year contracts for a long time - even after fighting for the title in 2010, which was impressive..." an extreme dose of sarcasm...?

not really, since it allowed Webber to walk out with that nice RB IP at any time he chose or got a better offer. Which as it appears never happened, did it?

Exactly. Not at all sarcastic. Teams don't like give one year contracts as that gives the driver too much flexibility, assuming the driver has value.

And seeing how much Webber knew about the inner workings of Red Bull, yes, they did him a favour letting him sign on for one year and decide year to year what to do. 

Also, lol at Alonso desperately trying to bring over some RBR secrets. 

Also, lol at Alonso desperately trying to bring over some RBR secrets.

Also, lol at Alonso desperately trying to bring over some RBR secrets. 

simply because you say so doesn't make it true. 

As Mark Webber has spoken many times about his preference for racing under one year contracts, I can't see why he'd be being in any way sarcastic here.

Webber: 'clearly Ferrari wanted me to go there with a lot of IP from Red Bull and obviously Fernando and I were keen to be teammates.'

As he specifically differentiates what he thought Alonso wanted out of the move from what Ferrari wanted from it, there's nothing supporting your interpretation. As written, it suggests more that he wanted it to happen for personal reasons.

Its not an interpretation if he is making up facts. Its called a fantasy.