The fight for 2nd in the WCC

Lotus catching Merc and Ferrari in Suzuka.

Ferrari 297

Mercedes 287

Lotus 264

Edited by xman, 13 October 2013 - 07:43.

Lotus is 2nd best car now. And I would say that it is clearly better than Mercedes and Ferrari. Though drivers need to perform as good as in last few weekends to have a chance for 2nd.

Lotus have been getting strong results lately. It has made this fight even more interesting.

Vettel now has as many points as Ferrari. I wonder if he can amass more points by the end of the season! 

I see Lotus coming 2nd now

I think Lotus needs help from crap strategists at Ferrari and Merc to make it...and they are not helped by their own track record tbh

Vettel 297

Ferrari 297

Mercedes 287

Game on 

I think Lotus will be 2nd. Grosjean is finding his form and Kimi is always up there. Looking good for them.

I still think Ferrari will be second. Almost every race shows they are a more complete race team than Mercedes and it doesn't matter Merc usually qualifies ahead, it is Ferrari and especially Alonso, who races ahead. 

Lotus is coming up well, but I suspect they'll fall a bit short in the end.

I still think Ferrari will be second. Almost every race shows they are a more complete race team than Mercedes and it doesn't matter Merc usually qualifies ahead, it is Ferrari and especially Alonso, who races ahead. 

 

Lotus is coming up well, but I suspect they'll fall a bit short in the end.

Don't think so.

I said it on the previous page, the LWB car lotus introduced seems to be the biggest step forward compared to ferrari and mercedes. The teams now more or less'll drive the rest of the season with the package they have, no bigger update was announced from all of them as far as I'm aware.

Lotus'll secure 2nd, I'm pretty sure about that.

I hope Lotus get 2nd, but I suspect that the drivers, operations, and strategy side of Lotus are not polished enough to make up the points deficit to Ferrari. 

Also, the job of Lotus strategists is made difficult by Kimi's often poor qualifying position. It's hard to predict how many cars he'll jump at the start and whom he will get stuck behind.

Also, the job of Lotus strategists is made difficult by Kimi's often poor qualifying position. It's hard to predict how many cars he'll jump at the start and whom he will get stuck behind.

Ok seriously mate, I lol'd a little 

For Lotus to come second they'd need a perfect finish to the season and basically get a podium in every remaining race. I don't think it'll go that smoothly or that they are really that good even if they have podiumed in the last three races.

For Lotus to come second they'd need a perfect finish to the season and basically get a podium in every remaining race. I don't think it'll go that smoothly or that they are really that good even if they have podiumed in the last three races.

Actually 23 and 33 pts to 3rd and to 2nd isn't that much. They need to gain around 10pts per race to get it, and if we see how it went today and in Korea, it is possible.

Also in Singapore they should have Romain as well in top 4.

So basically they are 2nd best team with quite advantage over Mercedes and Ferrari if I can be absolutely honest.

Someone can provide the tyres compounds for the last races though?

Also, the job of Lotus strategists is made difficult by Kimi's often poor qualifying position. It's hard to predict how many cars he'll jump at the start and whom he will get stuck behind.

Pah, that's easy. He'll jump between 2 and -3 cars at the start (usually averages out to a net 0) but he'll make 1-2 passes in the first 3 laps. He'll get stuck behind Perez, at least one Mercedes, and RIcciardo, when the Aussie is available to make a cameo appearance in the top 10 of the grid.

See, easy

 

Someone can provide the tyres compounds for the last races though?

India                     Soft Medium
Abu Dhabi            Soft Medium
United States       Medium Hard
Brazil                   Medium Hard

Edited by Exb, 13 October 2013 - 11:40.

How much does 2nd in the WCC pay?

I hope Lotus get 2nd, but I suspect that the drivers, operations, and strategy side of Lotus are not polished enough to make up the points deficit to Ferrari. However, given that Fernando didn't get the optimum strategy calls over Massa today, there may be some politics or other factors that might hinder them.

I honestly don't know if it is politics at Ferrari or plain old incompetence. They have completely lost their way it seems, both with the car and with managing the drivers. 

IT's not theMercedes  drivers fault the strategy is bad, and the set up makes them unable to overtake

Kind of like Hungary when a certain Red Bull driver took ages to overtake Button and suffered from overheating issue as the car was not designed and set-up to work in the wake of other cars.

How much does 2nd in the WCC pay?

According to this article, $34.125m + $54.6mil = $88.725mil

http://www.hindustan...le1-949214.aspx

Mercedes for 2nd, if they get theit act together

Kind of like Hungary when a certain Red Bull driver took ages to overtake Button and suffered from overheating issue as the car was not designed and set-up to work in the wake of other cars.

I know that rather than acknowledge the flaw in your argument, past experiences indicate there is a good chance he will probably ignore you and act like he wasn't caught out on a blatant double standard. So I want to quote you for truth.

We should make a poll and yes, include Vettel.

That will be really interesting to see the last couple races. See if he can make it!

If Vettel will solo win WCC, they will give him a trophy for WCC as well?

Or make a replica and give it to him?

According to this article, $34.125m + $54.6mil = $88.725mil

 

http://www.hindustan...le1-949214.aspx

Interesting. Looks like there is $17m in play between 2nd and 4th place in the WCC. 

Lotus is 2nd best car now. And I would say that it is clearly better than Mercedes and Ferrari. Though drivers need to perform as good as in last few weekends to have a chance for 2nd.

Webber said quite a while ago that Lotus was RBRs biggest rival because the were consistently good at all tracks whereas Ferrari and Mercedes' form fluctuates from track to track.

I still have faith that Merc will get 2nd. 

Team Genni are now competing for the podium with Red Bull, and with a bit of luck on their side either driver may nick a win before the season is out.  Mercedes is with them in quali but a step behind in the race.  Ferrari is a step behind in both quali and the race.  With that in mind Genni must now be favourites for 2nd in the WCC, and Kimi may just be able to sneak second in the WDC.

Team Genni are now competing for the podium with Red Bull, and with a bit of luck on their side either driver may nick a win before the season is out.  Mercedes is with them in quali but a step behind in the race.  Ferrari is a step behind in both quali and the race.  With that in mind Genni must now be favourites for 2nd in the WCC, and Kimi may just be able to sneak second in the WDC.

Maybe, but he probably isn't going to win another race this season and Alonso is likely to score points in the remaining races too (reliability and accidents aside). He would need a perfect run of podiums to close the gap, IMO.

Genii-Enstone are looking very good for 2nd in the WCC, though. The gap is not huge, and it looks possible to score well with both cars.

aww bless, look at people trying to get excited about the battle for second in the constructors, like any punters really care about who wins second place.

Mercedes 313

Ferrari 309

Lotus 285

aww bless, look at people trying to get excited about the battle for second in the constructors, like any punters really care about who wins second place.

There's a parallel thread that explains why the teams are: it's about quite massive amounts of money.

aww bless, look at people trying to get excited about the battle for second in the constructors, like any punters really care about who wins second place.

The teams care and anybody passionate about their team will care.  

People estimate that the gap from 2nd to 3rd is $25M 

Can't help but feel Merc have one hand on it now.

Yea Mercedes has a better chance than I thought. Though they were helped by the unluck of Alonso. I highly suspect had Alonso had a healthy car and a straightforward race, he would have beaten Rosberg for second.

In any case it is going to be very close between the two teams. It could come down to luck. Mercedes is more likely to suffer from reliability, strategy errors, while Ferrari's achilles heel is qualifying, which can give them too much of a handicap for a race and increase the likelihood of accidents.

Edited by sopa, 28 October 2013 - 08:00.

well at least non-Vettel championship is pretty decent

So, Mercedes, rather the Mercedes drivers brilliantly wrapped up the 2nd place in WCC. This is a great result for the team. I think the drivers made the sheer difference for Mercedes over Ferrari and Lotus. Ferrari finished behind Mercedes because of their useless 2nd driver Massa. Lotus finished behind Mercedes because of Grosjean who was similarly useless until the final few races of the season. The sheer ineptness of Massa and Grosjean are what that deprived their teams of 2nd WCC. The Mercedes drivers have shown what difference having two strong drivers could make, we might see more of this phenomenon in the future including a few other teams.

Lotus I believe had the better car than Ferrari through the whole season (even though Ferrari was arguably the best car in the first third of the season). But their strategy and track operations sucked big time. Ferrari beat Lotus by better team performance. Hence, the best cars in my view,

1. Red Bull

2. Lotus

3 Ferrari/Mercedes

The best teams in my view,

1. Red Bull

2. Mercedes

3. Ferrari

4. Lotus

It surprised me most how far back Ferrari fell after the summer break. As you say, they were arguably the best until let's say the Spanish GP. In recent years Ferrari were known for fighting back during the season (for example 2007, 2009, 2010), yet this season it went completely the other way. Remarkable really.

Congrats to Mercedes. I personally considered Ferrari as the favourite, but after Singapore they dropped the car development very badly without getting any podiums, despite that they still finished very close in the championship. Mercedes has to up their race operations and general consistency to match Ferrari and Red Bull, because with Raikkonen on-board Ferrari can get better points next year even in an underperforming car.

Damn you Mercedes and damn you stewards!

Lotus, Ferrari and Mercedes all had their better periods and particular strengths. That it ended up in Mercedes/Ferrari/Lotus is, I suppose, fair enough.

I do suppose the following lists suggests that one person in particular hasn't made as big a contribution to his team as was perhaps possible.

Mercedes: Hamilton 189 points / Rosberg 171 points

Ferrari: Alonso 242 points / Massa 112 points

Lotus: Räikkönen 183 points / Grosjean 132 points