Vettel : "Not Afraid of Top Team Mate"

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24666936

Lucky you have an agent to stop it happening then isn't it Seb?  I truly fear we will never find out how good Sebastian is at this rate - don't get me wrong, I think he is VERY VERY good.  I don't think he's quite Alonso/Hamilton/Raikonnen but he's absolutely there or thereabouts and unfortunately between his agent and Red Bull nobody cares to find out.  

2014 rule changes will hopefully shake things up and Seb will go looking for a new drive, would love to see him in a Ferrari/McLaren or Mercedes fighting against someone real.

Red Bull wants best drivers line-up, says Christian Horner

Red Bull resisted opportunities in the last 18 months to sign Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso.

Edited by Kingshark, 26 October 2013 - 05:16.

Red Bull with Alonso or Hamilton alongside Vettel would be a huge boost for F1

"One day maybe I will race alongside Kimi or Fernando."

Sounds like he's ruled out Hamilton already. I don't blame him. A Hamilton-Vettel partnership would quite simply be must-watch sport.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24666936

 

Lucky you have an agent to stop it happening then isn't it Seb?  I truly fear we will never find out how good Sebastian is at this rate - don't get me wrong, I think he is VERY VERY good.  I don't think he's quite Alonso/Hamilton/Raikonnen but he's absolutely there or thereabouts and unfortunately between his agent and Red Bull nobody cares to find out.  

 

2014 rule changes will hopefully shake things up and Seb will go looking for a new drive, would love to see him in a Ferrari/McLaren or Mercedes fighting against someone real.

He has no agent.

I don't see any reason why he would be afraid of a "top teammate".. He's driving as good as anyone else on the grid, possibly better..

Vettel may very well not afraid of a top team mate, but his team certainly are... what does that say more about, Vettel's self-confidence from his amazing success, or Red Bull's perhaps paranoia that the guy they've built up into one of the most successful drivers ever could be struck down from his throne by one of the three suggested teammates: Hamilton, Raikkonen and Alonso...

I don't think Red Bull would even be happy hiring Jenson alongside Vettel, they seem very set on a certain level of driver for the number 2 car... it helps them get WCC's which are the real moneymaker but are they contributing to the spectacle of the sport? Nah... they like it on easy street like they've got it now.

I think he only mentions specifically Alonso or Kimi because he intends to go to Ferrari sooner or later. I'd love for him to face off against Hamilton, but I don't think its meant to be given their career paths.

Edited by MikeV1987, 26 October 2013 - 05:44.

He has no agent.

The word wasn't being used in that way, in terms of a manager/agent. It was being used as in 'element', 'outside agent'... basically meaning Red Bull.

The word wasn't being used in that way, in terms of a manager/agent. It was being used as in 'element', 'outside agent'... basically meaning Red Bull.

Thanks for your explanation but can you tell me how you know what Ricardo F1 meant? 

Thanks for your explanation but can you tell me how you know what Ricardo F1 meant? 

I can't for sure, but the sentence is laid out to intimate it's that particular meaning. Most of us know Vettel doesn't have a manager as such, that Red Bull is his boss and agent.

I can't for sure, but the sentence is laid out to intimate it's that particular meaning. Most of us know Vettel doesn't have a manager as such, that Red Bull is his boss and agent.

For me, there is only one fact, Seb does not have a manager. Any other considerations are hypothesis. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24666936

 

Lucky you have an agent to stop it happening then isn't it Seb?  I truly fear we will never find out how good Sebastian is at this rate - don't get me wrong, I think he is VERY VERY good.  I don't think he's quite Alonso/Hamilton/Raikonnen but he's absolutely there or thereabouts and unfortunately between his agent and Red Bull nobody cares to find out.  

 

2014 rule changes will hopefully shake things up and Seb will go looking for a new drive, would love to see him in a Ferrari/McLaren or Mercedes fighting against someone real.

I thought Vettel didn't have an agent. I'm one of the people that believes Vettel is at the same level with the trio you mention. He wasn't three years ago but he's improved over the years. Plus I think he's a better qualifier than Raikkonen. In my opinion Vettel and Hamilton are the best qualifiers on the grid. 

Vettel apparently said "I'm not afraid of racing alongside Kimi or Fernando" and the title reads "Vettel not afraid of Hamilton or Alonso as teammate". Even if we assumed such a quote is newsworthy (which it isn't), what on earth has Hamilton got to do with any of this?

Once more you have found a way to keep him in the "news" and place his name in your random group of "top drivers".

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24666936

 

Lucky you have an agent to stop it happening then isn't it Seb?  I truly fear we will never find out how good Sebastian is at this rate - don't get me wrong, I think he is VERY VERY good.  I don't think he's quite Alonso/Hamilton/Raikonnen but he's absolutely there or thereabouts and unfortunately between his agent and Red Bull nobody cares to find out.  

 

2014 rule changes will hopefully shake things up and Seb will go looking for a new drive, would love to see him in a Ferrari/McLaren or Mercedes fighting against someone real.

There's only one way to find out Seb, look forward to seeing it.

I think in equal machinery, he'd match anyone.

Quote

Red Bull wants best drivers line-up, says Christian Horner

 

Quote

Red Bull resisted opportunities in the last 18 months to sign Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso.

 

Money talks, bullshit walks.

 

56. 

I predict fifty-six posts. 

Vettel may very well not afraid of a top team mate, but his team certainly are... what does that say more about, Vettel's self-confidence from his amazing success, or Red Bull's perhaps paranoia that the guy they've built up into one of the most successful drivers ever could be struck down from his throne by one of the three suggested teammates: Hamilton, Raikkonen and Alonso...

 

I don't think Red Bull would even be happy hiring Jenson alongside Vettel, they seem very set on a certain level of driver for the number 2 car... it helps them get WCC's which are the real moneymaker but are they contributing to the spectacle of the sport? Nah... they like it on easy street like they've got it now.

If RBR are that concerned about protecting Vettel's legacy, they could get any of the top drivers and give him an inferior equipment in that 2nd Red Bull. It is easily done through reliability and pitstop works.

Are we sure that all those mechanical gremlins on Hamilton's car last year when they had the fastest car were not a direct consequence of protecting Button's legacy?   

56. 

I predict fifty-six posts. 

Then the moderators will come to their senses and lock the thread? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24666936

 

Lucky you have an agent to stop it happening then isn't it Seb?  I truly fear we will never find out how good Sebastian is at this rate - don't get me wrong, I think he is VERY VERY good.  I don't think he's quite Alonso/Hamilton/Raikonnen but he's absolutely there or thereabouts and unfortunately between his agent and Red Bull nobody cares to find out.  

 

2014 rule changes will hopefully shake things up and Seb will go looking for a new drive, would love to see him in a Ferrari/McLaren or Mercedes fighting against someone real.

I love your comment, that is what I have been saying for ages, but people get me wrong and can't believe I really rate Seb very high, but RB make it really hard to give him the same credit you can give to Ham or Alo. Those two keep on driving brilliantly in mediocre car, especially Alo cos he's been giving pretty bad cars in recent years.

RB clearly refused to get Kimi onboard, we keep on hearing Seb voed against him. Of course I am not sure it is the truth or not. But yeah, Vettel should shine in mediocre cars or should stand up alongside Lewis/Kimi/Fernando I am also sure he would have a much harder time with a Webber from 2004-2008.

Then the moderators will come to their senses and lock the thread?  

yes exactly 

Vettel may very well not afraid of a top team mate, but his team certainly are... what does that say more about, Vettel's self-confidence from his amazing success, or Red Bull's perhaps paranoia that the guy they've built up into one of the most successful drivers ever could be struck down from his throne by one of the three suggested teammates: Hamilton, Raikkonen and Alonso...

Or third, your incomplete reasoning.  Red Bull doesn't want to deal with Hamilton/Alonso or Senna/Prost - they have said as much.  Vettel/Webber was bad enough - off track if not on.  That is totally their prerogative because they were very successful and didn't want to muck it up with some driver glory run.  Who can blame them?

I don't think Red Bull would even be happy hiring Jenson alongside Vettel, they seem very set on a certain level of driver for the number 2 car... it helps them get WCC's which are the real moneymaker but are they contributing to the spectacle of the sport? Nah... they like it on easy street like they've got it now.

They most certainly are.  Some of us are enjoying it tremendously.  Don't make the mistake of transferring your vision of F1 onto all. 

Perhaps you were not watching in 2010 when we had a ridiculously close team battle at Red Bull, with Mark Webber leading the bulls throughout the season.  I think most would disagree with you that Red Bull did not contribute to the spectacle. 

Red Bull went on to do so in various ways in other years.

Sebastian has said many times he wanted to partner Kimi.  I've never heard him state he wanted to race Alonso or Hamilton.  I think that has more to do with how he feels he'd get on with the drivers as opposed to who might win.  They all love racing.  Off track shenanigans are something else besides and some are more into that than others.  Vettel doesn't appear to be into it.  You will recall we got straight from this mouth that he prefers Kimi to Alonso because they get along better and Kimi is straight with him.

Edited by bourbon, 26 October 2013 - 07:01.

If RBR are that concerned about protecting Vettel's legacy, they could get any of the top drivers and give him an inferior equipment in that 2nd Red Bull. It is easily done through reliability and pitstop works.

 

Are we sure that all those mechanical gremlins on Hamilton's car last year when they had the fastest car were not a direct consequence of protecting Button's legacy?   

You often accuse me of being to harsh on you fsntastic Seb. I thought I was really that harsh. But now everything is pretty much clear. Whoever come ups claiming that places Seb into a bit fishy spot, you are there, to protect him. Fanboyism doesn't know barriers.

I love your comment, that is what I have been saying for ages, but people get me wrong and can't believe I really rate Seb very high, but RB make it really hard to give him the same credit you can give to Ham or Alo. Those two keep on driving brilliantly in mediocre car, especially Alo cos he's been giving pretty bad cars in recent years.

 

RB clearly refused to get Kimi onboard, we keep on hearing Seb voed against him. Of course I am not sure it is the truth or not. But yeah, Vettel should shine in mediocre cars or should stand up alongside Lewis/Kimi/Fernando I am also sure he would have a much harder time with a Webber from 2004-2008.

And another example of 2010 being completely forgotten.  Webber lead Vettel the entire season.  The entire season.  Even if you put it down to reliability issues for Seb - he was still forced to push and play catch up the entire time.  Even if you claim he was favored and Mark was sabotaged - it was all for naught because Webber led the whole of 2010, right up into the final race. 

As did Alonso in his Marussia. :/

I think it is clear that Seb can hold his own and fight.  All these challenges are just BS.  He has to prove himself with teammates, bad cars, new engineers, new teams, starts behind the midgrid... Everybody has a special challenge for him to meet in order to prove to them that he is special.

Well you know what.  He has already proven it to a lot of people and for us, he has nothing to prove.

Sebastian gets on with Lewis, he wouldn't be keen having him as a teammate. The qualifying battles would be epic. The fact Hamilton has accepted and gone up against Alonso, Button and Rosberg shows he's the new Prost of inter-team battles - never shying away from a challenge. Seb really does need to prove he can beat the others in the same car, he says he doesn't but in a lot of ways to go down as the best of all-time he might need to.

You often accuse me of being to harsh on you fsntastic Seb. I thought I was really that harsh. But now everything is pretty much clear. Whoever come ups claiming that places Seb into a bit fishy spot, you are there, to protect him. Fanboyism doesn't know barriers.

Somebody needs to be a voice of reason especially when the OP does not even aware that Sebastian does not have a manager to block the mega-deal partnering of Vettel and Hamilton/Raikkonen/Alonso.

Well you know what.  He has already proven it to a lot of people and for us, he has nothing to prove.

He hasn't proven without a shadow of a doubt he's the best on the grid, there are many who suspect Hamilton is a better qualifier and Alonso a better all-around driver (with good basis too).

Schumacher went over that hill and was clearly the best on the grid for a LONG time. There were a few who doubted 2002-2004 because of the dominance of Ferrari but 1994-2001 there was almost no doubt. The truth is people don't like serial winners.

Seb's route to greatest of all-time status (in no particular order):

• set as many records as possible
• Win 7 world driver championships
• move to a different team and win the championship
• beat at least one 'top' teammate

Edited by Cult, 26 October 2013 - 07:19.

You often accuse me of being to harsh on you fsntastic Seb. I thought I was really that harsh. But now everything is pretty much clear. Whoever come ups claiming that places Seb into a bit fishy spot, you are there, to protect him. Fanboyism doesn't know barriers.

bit rich coming from you, innit?    (maybe this one would be better for a signature!)

on topic: I find these kind of exclamations totally pointless. it doesn't prove anything, heck, I can also say I'm not afraid of Vettel/Alonso/etc.  on the other hand, it gives the antis something to joke about.

The fact Hamilton has accepted and gone up against Alonso, Button and Rosberg shows he's the new Prost of inter-team battles - never shying away from a challenge

I don't think he had much to say about choosing Alonso and Button, not that he would reject a ride in a top team in 2007 and not that he could have blocked Button in 2010   It's more about how he does against them, rather then deliberately choosing top notch opponents.

He hasn't proven without a shadow of a doubt he's the best on the grid,

This is what I am trying to explain to you.  There are those of us who feel he has proven it - definitively - without question.  So ask yourself, who should Sebastian be concerned with?  Those who have stuck with him through thick and thin and appreciate his talent, or those throwing out a series of challenges for him to meet before they will recognize his talent?  Especially when those challenges differ from person to person and some are just silly.

there are many who suspect Hamilton is a better qualifier and Alonso a better all-around driver (with good basis too).

When Vettel has driven as long as Alonso has, you can compare their careers (i.e., when they both retire).  Hamilton and Vettel are both tremendous qualifiers - who would bother to argue that?   With those two, "better" is meaningless.

Schumacher went over that hill and was clearly the best on the grid for a LONG time. There were a few who

doubted 2002-2004 because of the dominance of Ferrari but 1994-2001 there was almost no doubt. The truth is people don't like serial winners.

 

Right, so when Vettel has driven as long as Schumi  - done his 12 years - then we'll have this conversation.  Until then, driving against Alonso or Hamilton or Raikkonen won't tell us much at all, imo.

"One day maybe I will race alongside Kimi or Fernando," Vettel said.

 

"One day maybe I will race alongside Kimi or Fernando," Vettel said.

That is the real issue. Fernando and Kimi are on their top form now and from now on they are just getting worse and worse little by little. So in three years' time Seb will have a much easier time with those two and if he really gets into the same team, let's say Ferrari, as teammate of Kimi or Fernando, he will really have a great chance to beat them and everyone will say Vettel is better them those two. We could get a real picture if he were team mate of one of those two right now or of course Ham could always yield a good comparion, cos he is of the same age, ok, two years older, but that is still the same period of carrier.

 

And that's the reason Senna is regarded as greatest, he was five years younger than Prost. It's so funny, Vettel has to do that and that if he is doing so, haters find another excuse - Fernando and Kimi would be too old, only Hamilton can be the "real top team mate" who can decided if Vettel is an all time great or not. I am sure if he is facing Hamilton and beats him, some will say Hamilton was over the hill because he wasn't focusing on his driver career anymore.

And another example of 2010 being completely forgotten.  Webber lead Vettel the entire season.  The entire season.  Even if you put it down to reliability issues for Seb - he was still forced to push and play catch up the entire time.  Even if you claim he was favored and Mark was sabotaged - it was all for naught because Webber led the whole of 2010, right up into the final race. 

There's a good reason that it's forgotten. Stop making it sound like Webber was performing so well in 2010 and that this proves Vettel can beat a top teammate. Vettel was much much more unfortunate mechanically and also made several huge errors. Both cost him a boatload of points. That's why Webber lead Vettel the whole season. In reality Webber had by far the best 'package' of any driver that year and he finished 3rd in the WDC with it, and that's as good as it ever got. It doesn't prove anything for Seb, as Webber has never been a benchmark.

This is what I am trying to explain to you.  There are those of us who feel he has proven it - definitively - without question.  So ask yourself, who should Sebastian be concerned with?  Those who have stuck with him through thick and thin and appreciate his talent, or those throwing out a series of challenges for him to meet before they will recognize his talent?  Especially when those challenges differ from person to person and some are just silly.

To be honest, both the fans and doubters are important. Remember not all doubters are ridiculous and not all fans are rational.  I think we're looking at realistic fans and doubters as equally important and valid, some fans are pointlessly optimistic/deluded and the same is true of doubters, they won't accept anything - throwing out conspiracy theories etc. at every opportunity.

Saying that I think both are not important at all. Vettel should do things for himself, his team and his family. If he's happy to win races and championships but have half the fan base question his suitability in the top five of all-time then that's what he should do. My point is that there are certain things he needs to do to be considered 'the best' e.g. do a Schumacher going to Ferrari, do a Prost against world championship winning teammates.

Whether that's right is another matter but there are still doubts around Sebastian.

Early 2012, Red Bull struggling with rear stability - Webber just as quick if not quicker. In 2010 Webber was also quicker at points when the car wasn't to Seb's liking concerning engine mapping. Seb is a fantastic driver but only a deluded fanatic won't admit a lot of his success is due to Red Bull's rear stability and the engine mapping genius of Renault/Red Bull. Vettel is Mr. Ideal for the Red Bull, it's built towards his strengths.That shows that he has the qualities of a Schumacher or Alonso to get the team building towards him...very essential.

What some question is whether he can beat others when he's not in a Red Bull or whether he could beat another top driver in the Red Bull. Let's not forget, with Webber's height, driving style and age he's a long way away from optimal. Put Alonso in a Red Bull, slight of stature, smooth and in his prime, we could be experiencing the most intense rivalry ever.

For now Vettel should just be concerned with racking up the records. In my opinion 2015/2016 he needs to move away from Red Bull, get a new challenge, a new teammate and try to cement his legacy. You might be happy that Vettel is the best but I have a friend who's convinced Hamilton is the best F1 driver of all-time. Again, not all fans are rational.

When Vettel has driven as long as Alonso has, you can compare their careers (i.e., when they both retire).  Hamilton and Vettel are both tremendous qualifiers - who would bother to argue that?   With those two, "better" is meaningless.

It's impossible to know who's better in qualifying (between Vettel and Hamilton) but 'better' is important. Had Vettel been better he would have been on pole in Monaco and Hungary, making errors on both fast laps. Had Hamilton been better he would have been in a better position for the Monaco and Monza races. Both missed opportunities so improving and extracting everything is crucial.

 

Right, so when Vettel has driven as long as Schumi  - done his 12 years - then we'll have this conversation.  Until then, driving against Alonso or Hamilton or Raikkonen won't tell us much at all, imo.

I agree, probably best to wait.

 

Early 2012, Red Bull struggling with rear stability - Webber just as quick if not quicker. In 2010 Webber was also quicker at points when the car wasn't to Seb's liking concerning engine mapping. Seb is a fantastic driver but only a deluded fanatic won't admit a lot of his success is due to Red Bull's rear stability and the engine mapping genius of Renault/Red Bull. Vettel is Mr. Ideal for the Red Bull, it's built towards his strengths.That shows that he has the qualities of a Schumacher or Alonso to get the team building towards him...very essential.

 

Only a deluded fanatic won't admit that Alonso's speed at Ferrari is due to the team being tailored around him.

Only a deluded fanatic won't admit that Hamilton being fast at Mercedes is due to the brakes being design around his preferences.

Only a deluded fanatic won't admit that Raikkonen being fast at Lotus is due to the car suiting him with very tyre-friendly design.

???

Here is an argument about 2010. If I remember correctly, in 2010 Webber outraced Vettel through sheer pace only twice - Spain, Monaco. Races in which Vettel arguably had a chassis problem (may or may not have been the case). There are a few more close calls. Like in Turkey Webber held up Vettel all race by the virtue of Vettel qualifying behind him with qualifying car problems. Some races are hard to call due to problems - like Silverstone, or Canada. But other than Spain and Monaco Vettel never really "struggled" with speed in 2010. It was really the mistakes and unreliability, which made the points close. A bit like Button against Hamilton in 2012.

Edited by sopa, 26 October 2013 - 08:02.

Sebastian gets on with Lewis, he wouldn't be keen having him as a teammate.

I don't think hey will have a good relationship.

Alonso would do more with Vettel’s car - Hamilton

http://motorsport.ne...lton,68346.html

Edited by kosmos, 26 October 2013 - 08:04.

I don't think hey will have a good relationship.

 

Alonso would do more with Vettel’s car - Hamilton

http://motorsport.ne...lton,68346.html

Hamilton's jealousy is pretty transparent here. First, he says the Vettel domination is boring. Then he basically puts his foot in his mouth by implication, suggesting that Alonso in a RedBull would be even MORE boring. lol.

I like Niki Laudas quote from that article because the man has no reason whatsoever to be lying. He really does think Vettel is a cut above the rest. And perhaps that rankles Hammy a bit.

Hamilton's jealousy is pretty transparent here. First, he says the Vettel domination is boring. Then he basically puts his foot in his mouth by implication, suggesting that Alonso in a RedBull would be even MORE boring. lol.

 

I like Niki Laudas quote from that article because the man has no reason whatsoever to be lying. He really does think Vettel is a cut above the rest. And perhaps that rankles Hammy a bit.

Completely agree, he really does make some twattish statements at times.

Beating other "top team mates" is so ****ing pointless.

Button beat Hamilton, Massa beat Raikönnen and Alonso was beaten by Hamilton. And did it change anything?

I don't think hey will have a good relationship.

 

Alonso would do more with Vettel’s car - Hamilton

http://motorsport.ne...lton,68346.html

"But what is clear to me is that if Fernando (Alonso) had been in that car ... he would be far beyond where Vettel is now. He would have won even more easily," added Hamilton.

That's a rubbish statement. How would Hamilton know that Alonso gets out more than Vettel? Let alone going "far beyond". And where does that leave Webber. 

RB must be really sad to have drivers so far beyond the best . I feel pity for them that they struggle so much with Vettel.

Beating other "top team mates" is so ****ing pointless.

 

Button beat Hamilton, Massa beat Raikönnen and Alonso was beaten by Hamilton. And did it change anything?

Yes, Yes and Yes. It's changed a lot. Hamilton beating Alonso essentially made him leave McLaren (more to it than that). Kimi struggling in 2008 damaged his reputation a bit and has been brought up endless times since. Hamilton's 2011 was also very damaging for his reputation.

It's not pointless, it's incredibly important for so many reasons. Your teammate is your ultimate benchmark.

Edited by Cult, 26 October 2013 - 09:01.

I saw and heard Seb himself say on TV he would rather not have Alonso as a team mate. So he's lying.

Edited by Timstr11, 26 October 2013 - 09:02.

Hamilton's jealousy is pretty transparent here. First, he says the Vettel domination is boring. Then he basically puts his foot in his mouth by implication, suggesting that Alonso in a RedBull would be even MORE boring. lol.

 

I like Niki Laudas quote from that article because the man has no reason whatsoever to be lying. He really does think Vettel is a cut above the rest. And perhaps that rankles Hammy a bit.

a) how did he put his foot in his mouth? He didn't say 'Alonso would get far more out of the car so that would be exciting for the championship/for fans'. He's saying Alonso would be better, how is that linked to domination being boring? It's you who's made that link.

b) Lauda is a great Vettel admirer, you have to remember that Lauda is Austrian and has had extensive German ties. It's like saying a few years ago that Damon Hill or Jacques Villeneuve said Hamilton was the best driver on the grid, and they have no reason to be lying. Maybe that rankled Alonso at the time.

c) I agree that the comment was a bit over the top (how much more easily could you win the championship especially 2011 and this year). Hamilton shouldn't make comments like this even if he believes it/is certain of it.

Edited by Cult, 26 October 2013 - 09:09.

I don't think hey will have a good relationship.

 

Alonso would do more with Vettel’s car - Hamilton

http://motorsport.ne...lton,68346.html

Vettels gets no respect from top drivers, and this didn't change since the beginning of Vettel's career. Well only way to see who is right is to get them in the same team.

I saw and heard Seb himself say on TV he would rather not have Alonso as a team mate. So he's lying.

What he said then and what he has said now, it's not mutually-exclusive. 

Vettels gets no respect from top drivers, and this didn't change since the beginning of Vettel's career. Well only way to see who is right is to get them in the same team.

Jealousy.

Only a deluded fanatic won't admit that Alonso's speed at Ferrari is due to the team being tailored around him.

Only a deluded fanatic won't admit that Hamilton being fast at Mercedes is due to the brakes being design around his preferences.

Only a deluded fanatic won't admit that Raikkonen being fast at Lotus is due to the car suiting him with very tyre-friendly design.

Bit obtuse here. Alonso was equally at home at Renault and could build the team around him anywhere. Hamilton equally can request brakes that will help him e.g. at both McLaren and Mercedes. Raikkonen was equally at home in a fast qualifying car, his style is very smooth so arguably he could use some more qualifying performance not tyre management characteristics.

Your comments are akin to saying 'only a deluded fanatic won't admit that Mark Webber's speed is due to having tyres on the car at all'. It's not relevant to what I was discussing.

On the other hand the Red Bull is a unique, one of a kind car on the grid (one of the best cars of all-time) so moving to another team would be VASTLY different. Don't get me wrong, Vettel was really impressive at Toro Rosso too but who did he have as his teammate? Certainly not a driver considered in the top half of the grid.

Edited by Cult, 26 October 2013 - 09:20.

Vettels gets no respect from top drivers, and this didn't change since the beginning of Vettel's career. Well only way to see who is right is to get them in the same team.

I guess you are so sure about it because you have asked each one of them right? 

I don't know what's worse, die-hard fans or die-hard haters... 

Edited by RosannaG, 26 October 2013 - 09:25.

I don't think hey will have a good relationship.

 

Alonso would do more with Vettel’s car - Hamilton

http://motorsport.ne...lton,68346.html

That's a rather unnecessary comment for Lewis to make.