Magnussen or Perez - who would you choose for 2014?

Meh. No matter what a team tells you, any smart driver/manager without a deal in place should start looking around for other prospects during the summer break. There's being fair and there's being smart.

Agree, they should have started to look around ,but have the feeling they didn't ,so it may be the end of Perez carrer in F1, if he doesn't find a seat for 2014 it will be very difficult fot him or any driver come back to the F1 grid

SP may have the capacity to improve, but will it be by enough to be as good as JB?  

More importantly will he ever be as good as Kimi, Lewis, Mika, Aryton, Montoya, Alonso or Prost? Very unlikely. Those who support Perez need to remember that joining Mclaren is a privilege, and one which will pit you against the great. Being a decent driver shouldn't be a merit that make you worthy of another season. You must excel beyond expectations, like making the podium even when the car doesn't cut it.

Even Kovalainen got a second season / chance at McLaren and he didn't show that much. Wouldn't be fair if Perez only got a season with a very very bad car, McLaren should give him a competitive car first and than judge his true ability.

More importantly will he ever be as good as Kimi, Lewis, Mika, Aryton, Montoya, Alonso or Prost? Very unlikely. Those who support Perez need to remember that joining Mclaren is a privilege, and one which will pit you against the great. Being a decent driver shouldn't be a merit that make you worthy of another season. You must excel beyond expectations, like making the podium even when the car doesn't cut it.

Absolutely correct. There is no point McL playing the percentages and ending up with mediocrity. Their greatest years were also when they have the greatest drivers.

Even when Hakkinen  and Senna were driving around in crap cars their raw speed was clear to see. That's what McL need in at least one of their cars. Raw speed. If they need to keep changing drivers until they find it, that's the better option than playing it safe.

McL need to start being bold and take some risks. If they don't, I can't see them (or anyone else) knocking RB off their perch any time soon.

Even Kovalainen got a second season / chance at McLaren and he didn't show that much. Wouldn't be fair if Perez only got a season with a very very bad car, McLaren should give him a competitive car first and than judge his true ability.

I don't think you need a competitive car for ability to be judged. I sure McL have all the data they need.

Don't feel too sorry for Perez. He is a multi-millionaire racing driver at the end of the day.

Even Kovalainen got a second season / chance at McLaren and he didn't show that much. Wouldn't be fair if Perez only got a season with a very very bad car, McLaren should give him a competitive car first and than judge his true ability.

Kovalainen got another season because after 2007, Mclaren didn't mind having a top driver paired with a second rate driver. Today, Mclaren have got two drivers who haven't been exceptional. Because of his experience, Button is a keeper. However he's likely to leave the sport at the end of 2014, and in the mean time Mclaren need to groom a top driver to lead the team. Therefore they cannot afford to keep Perez, especially with Honda wanting the team to show a flash of brilliance in time for 2015.

You must excel beyond expectations, like making the podium even when the car doesn't cut it.

Much is being made in news reports in Mclaren's disappointment at Perez 'effectively finishing 30s behind Button' at Abu Dhabi. I see their point. If you can't raise your game when your contract's on the line, when can you?

Mclaren are one of the few teams who (presumably) can afford to sign a driver based only on ability. There's no shortage of quick drivers with something to prove and no race seat right now, is there?

Much is being made in news reports in Mclaren's disappointment at Perez 'effectively finishing 30s behind Button' at Abu Dhabi. I see their point. If you can't raise your game when your contract's on the line, when can you?

 

Mclaren are one of the few teams who (presumably) can afford to sign a driver based only on ability. There's no shortage of quick drivers with something to prove and no race seat right now, is there?

how do did they calculate this???

Martin Whitmarsh has a science calculator with settings on it that you and I have never heard of.

Martin Whitmarsh has a science calculator with settings on it that you and I have never heard of.

yeah, the Button is called bias.

Biased or not, in this case Whitmarsh's opinions are quite important.

Even Kovalainen got a second season ...

That might actually work against Checo.

And 'fair'?  I doubt that comes into the decision at any level.

A week ago I would have said Magnussen had no chance for 2014, but it looks like all it needs now is for Eddie Jordan to confirm.

Mclaren have got two drivers who haven't been exceptional. Because of his experience, Button is a keeper. However he's likely to leave the sport at the end of 2014, and in the mean time Mclaren need to groom a top driver to lead the team.

 I completely disagree that Button is not an exceptional driver. I thought his performance has often been very very strong this year in a car that is a complete dog. In the past 2-3 races Button's performance dropped but Perez has driven two good races in a row. But Button is a former world champion and I do rate him as a very smart and exceptionally talented driver. He is not just there just because of his experience, he is one of the most underrated drivers in the field.

Edited by William Hunt, 10 November 2013 - 17:17.

Ferrari weren't convinced enough by him to replace Massa. Sauber weren't too fussy about keeping him (preferring to bring Gutierrez in despite them both having the same backing) and now McLaren are leaning towards a rookie as well...

It's obviously not just his visible performance that's not good enough, McLaren and others have poured through their data and he just doesn't seem to be cutting it.

McLaren were not even capable to build a car that is even remotely competitive this year, they should look at themselves first before they blame their drivers.

McLaren were not even capable to build a car that is even remotely competitive this year, they should look at themselves first before they blame their drivers.

Lotus/Renault were having a horrible year in 2011 but in retrospect bringing Raikkonen and Grosjean in was the right move.

So because your car isn't what it should be, you should hire the best drivers available or put differently if your car is crap you should hire crap drivers? 

I did not say that if you build a crap car you should hire crap drivers Gilles4Ever. What I mean is that if you don't do a good job yourself you should look at yourself to do a better job instead of putting the blame on others. I don't think their drivers performed bad at all this year. If they let Perez go it will be because they are looking for a scapegoat.

Edited by William Hunt, 10 November 2013 - 17:33.

I did not say that if you build a crap car you should hire crap drivers Gilles'Ever. What I mean is that if you don't do a good job yourself you should look at yourself to do a better job instead of putting the blame on others. I don't think their drivers performed bad at all this year. If they let Perez go it will be because they are looking for a scapegoat.

I am yet to see anything where McLaren blame their drivers for their lack of performance, there is no scapegoat. This has nothing to do with how the car has performed, this is about the drivers for 2014. How the drivers performed against each other in the same car and how they have performed in the simulator would give McLaren a very good idea on what 2 drivers are the best for the team in 2014. 

I am yet to see anything where McLaren blame their drivers for their lack of performance, there is no scapegoat. This has nothing to do with how the car has performed, this is about the drivers for 2014. How the drivers performed against each other in the same car and how they have performed in the simulator would give McLaren a very good idea on what 2 drivers are the best for the team in 2014. 

Exactly. No one here has stated that Perez was expected to be a miracle worker by driving the car to victory, but perhaps be more competitive in the midfield. Don't forget that 2009 Mclaren started with an appallingly slow car but drivers were still able to pull a few ones out the bag in the first races.

not officially but 'off the record' yes.

http://www.mirror.co...ren-one-2366272

It's Mirror but still the amount of Button hyperbole in that "article" is um... better leave it at that.

Ferrari weren't convinced enough by him to replace Massa. Sauber weren't too fussy about keeping him (preferring to bring Gutierrez in despite them both having the same backing) and now McLaren are leaning towards a rookie as well...
 
It's obviously not just his visible performance that's not good enough, McLaren and others have poured through their data and he just doesn't seem to be cutting it.

So because your car isn't what it should be, you should hire the best drivers available or put differently if your car is crap you should hire crap drivers?

Seems a decision is imminent on this.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111146

 

Who would you put in the 2014 McLaren - from these two options?

Personally I'm rather tired of Perez' on-track antics so... Magnussen thank you very much.

I think it's better to start off in a smaller team but Magnussen seems like the type who might be able to handle being put straight in a McLaren.

I think it's better to start off in a smaller team but Magnussen seems like the type who might be able to handle being put straight in a McLaren.

Because of the pressure and expectations at top teams, it definitely is better to start in a smaller team. They have more patience to let you develop. You only have to look at how Grosjean or Ricciardo have developed over the season. At Mclaren or Ferrari even a DNF which isn't your fault can trigger chants for you to be put on the chopping block - Not to mention qualifying outside the second row. Some people have commonly said that Hamilton has had it easy by starting in a top team, but driving on that level has it's own demons.

Martin Whitmarsh has a science calculator with settings on it that you and I have never heard of.

Is that the one that has the in-built 'with hindsight' setting?

Next season is a reset. That is a good time to bring Magnussen in stead of Perez. In 2015 an Alonso-Magnussen pairing.

I did not read the entire thread yet, and it was probably already brought up by someone, but if McLaren now consider replacing Perez, wouldn't Hulkenberg also be an option ?

Edited by sv401, 10 November 2013 - 19:04.

Even Kovalainen got a second season / chance at McLaren and he didn't show that much. Wouldn't be fair if Perez only got a season with a very very bad car, McLaren should give him a competitive car first and than judge his true ability.

I think that's unfair on HK.  He did have a lot of bad luck go his way in '08 - the SC in Oz whilst on his way to 2nd, wheel failure in Spain, car failures at Spa and Fuji, a tyre punctured by Kimi in Turkey after qualifying on the front row.  What finished him at McLaren was his poor end to '09.

Perez has shone once or twice this season.  Surely McLaren must take that into account (along with his late season Sauber form).  Whether Magnussen is a better bet remains to be seen.

I think that's unfair on HK.  He did have a lot of bad luck go his way in '08 - the SC in Oz whilst on his way to 2nd, wheel failure in Spain, car failures at Spa and Fuji, a tyre punctured by Kimi in Turkey after qualifying on the front row.  What finished him at McLaren was his poor end to '09.

And don't forget he always got the heavier car for qualifying, except for Silverstone where he promptly got a pole.

I did not read the entire thread yet, and it was probably already brought up by someone, but if McLaren now consider replacing Perez, wouldn't Hulkenberg also be an option ?

I would hope so. Hulkenberg is still young and is one of the shining stars of the midfield this season. Neither do I think he would be any more expensive than Magnussen. Even a £200,000 salary would keep Hulkenberg happy. However, there would be internal pressure to promote an internally groomed driver like Red Bull has done with Ricciardo.

Although to me common sense would indicate keeping Perez, it's important to remember that McLaren has infinitely more data to base their decisions on than us folk on an internet message board . I imagine their top staff have years of data on Lewis and Jenson on everything from sim times to reflexes and fitness. It's possible that Perez just doesn't match up.

I'm ok with McLaren going young and thinking about Magnussen and Vandoorne for 2015. (I think Stoffel has more potential). But when are they going to do this about their management?

Even Kovalainen got a second season / chance at McLaren and he didn't show that much. Wouldn't be fair if Perez only got a season with a very very bad car, McLaren should give him a competitive car first and than judge his true ability.

"Kevin Magnussen closes on 2014 McLaren F1 seat over Sergio Perez"

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111221

 

 

Only last month Whitmarsh praised his pace amid a push to get him an F1 seat in 2014.

"He has had two runs in an F1 car [and] in Abu Dhabi, on his third flying lap, he did a time that was good enough for sixth on the grid, which is pretty impressive," said Whitmarsh.

What tests he is talking about? Does anybody has results?

Around 0:29

 

 

What tests he is talking about? Does anybody has results?

 

2012 YDT:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104080

Also Sam Micheal on KM:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104114

If Magnussen is that good in the data, they have to go for it,  They know they don't have a Tier1 driver atm, that's why they were after Alonso.  Two decent drivers won't cut it these days, when your rivals have LH/SV/FA.  A newbie will mess up from time to time but their focus is on 2015, so they want him to gain the experience in 2014, I'd have thought.

I wish I had a pound for every little dig undersquare's made about Button since Hamilton left the team.

So it already at YDT that Magnussen was the star of the future and how the press and McLaren praised him convinced me even more...current praises/rumours show he must be really good and with the fact that Perez was as I expected ( too hyped up). So go for Magnussen.

So perez went form one of the most promising youngsters in the field 12months ago to on the scrap heap.

And I thought Red Bull were the career killers 

...Two decent drivers won't cut it these days, when your rivals have LH/SV/FA.  ...

I don't think Lewis Hamilton is in the same league as Sebastian Vettel or Fernando Alonso, just my opinion.

At the moment, regardless of what people say about him having the best car, Vettel is in a class of his own really.

Edited by William Hunt, 11 November 2013 - 03:52.

I love the support that Magnussen gets while Kvyat, who has comparable race experience (looking at the nr of races both did) got massive flak here for being "not eperienced enough".

For the record, I chose Perez. Car was crap and made both Button and Perez look bad.

Edited by zachary2142, 11 November 2013 - 04:13.

voted for magnussen.

I remember when his dad came into to F1.

the only thing that stopped Jan was his dedication to fitness and danish lifestyle...

smoked too much and drank too many gron tuborg for his own good.

seems like his son learned from the lessons.

Checo. He's been quicker than Jenson quite a few times this year and it's not the drivers fault they built a crap car. He is learning and has done fairly well to be young, first year at a top team in a midfield car. He definitely deserves another year to prove himself IMHO.

The problem is his benchmark is JB. Let's face it, being "almost as good as JB" is far from being a top tier driver that the team is searching for.

Looks like @SChecoPerez is about to drive his last two @McLarenF1 races. We gather #Kevin Magnussen is near-cert for 2014 race seat. Boom!

https://twitter.com/...622423387332609

Checo. He's been quicker than Jenson quite a few times this year and it's not the drivers fault they built a crap car. He is learning and has done fairly well to be young, first year at a top team in a midfield car. He definitely deserves another year to prove himself IMHO.

Quite a few times? He really hasn't.

apparently KM is testing for Mclaren/pirelli this week at Vallelunga, 1000km tire test