Maldonado blames on Williams for his quali while Bottas hits Q3

Overshadows a pretty breathtaking performance from Bottas. Which I guess was Maldonado's intention.

Well he should have fought for wins in that rocket, that's for sure. He's obviously not up for the job.

Exactly.

I still like Pastor.

But it does annoy me that Pastor has taken some of the limelight off Bottas having a excellent session

What a nasty person he is, also an idiot if he thinks Williams (and any other team for that matter) spend millions on both its cars just to sabotage one of them, even considering how important points are for Williams right now.

Well, are you suggesting that the Williams team did something to his car then? -- Or are you just pretending to be clever and take cheap shots at your fellow forum members?

 

Almost as arrogant as Pastor, shape up Andrew.

I don't think Williams sabotaged his car, but I think it's pretty reasonable to be suspicious of your team if they clearly don't want you back next year, and all of a sudden you're magically 2 seconds behind a teammate who you've been consistently ahead of all year. Sauber sent Hulkenberg out in Q1 with a brake change and didn't tell him, so it's not unreasonable to think Williams might've (with good intentions) messed with his setup and he wasn't ready for it. Wait a minute, isn't this the same forum that's been claiming for years that Mark Webber gets all the bullshit parts and Red Bull sabotage him to make their golden boy look good?

Where is this arrogance? Because the usual party of ****-piling on the unpopular drivers on this forum is humble and reasonable, right? Yeah, Maldonado's attitude sucks. So does almost the entire team's performance and no one would give two shits if it wasn't Williams with all their history and a big British flag next to their name. I notice Frank didn't have much to say about Pastor's attitude when he was handing over a cheque to keep his entire team afloat. I didn't see Claire complaining when Maldonado put that mediocre at best car on the front row at Spain and then gave Williams their first win a decade. No one had anything bad to say about him then. Maybe I've got the wrong standings, but mine say Pastor Maldonado 1 point, Valtteri Bottas 0 points. Does that mean that he can be a prick? No. Does it mean he can be unprofessional? No. But that team has a lot to be thankful to him for in the past couple seasons, not the least of which might be their entire continued existence, and the fact he brought some genuine, deserved glory to that team when Mark Webber, Antonio Pizzonia, Nick Heidfeld, Marc Gene, Nico Rosberg, Alexander Wurz, Kazuki Nakajima, Nico Hulkenberg, Rubens Barrichello and Bruno Senna didn't.

I don't want to come off like I love the guy or something, Bottas is probably a better bet for them moving forward and Williams would know a hell of a lot more about that than I would. I just get tired of Maldonado/Grosjean/etc. being **** on around here when the same people bitching give other drivers a free pass. Where are the threads about Perez being an entitled little ****? Why isn't there a thread for Button complaining about the car on live TV literally every single race this season? Where are the threads about Raikkonen bitching at his team on the radio every chance he gets? A little consistency would be nice. The history of this sport was written primarily by rich kids, prima donnas and drivers who blamed everyone but themselves. It's fair to say Maldonado's attitude is ****, because it is. But it's not fair to make out like it's only him when he's a drop in the ocean.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 16 November 2013 - 20:40.

Terrible attitude. I respect Maldonado as a driver and until now I haven't found him annoying as a person but his interview stinks of a bad attitude. 

 

He probably did have some issues but to jump to blaming your team and saying you don't care about the rest of the season is unprofessional. Why would other team want to hire him if he will be demotivated to perform in the case he has to leave the team? Really hope Hulk gets that Lotus seat now! 

Money, and the problem is that he seems to be confusing the interest he's getting from some teams because of his money with interest in himself as a driver.

I don't know what happened with the car in Q1, I'm one of those who thinks over 4 tenths is set-up or mistake, but his attitude during the interview, with or without adrenaline ...

The unusually large gap does suggest there was something wrong with the car, but nonetheless he shouldn't have said it in public and suggest that it was intentional as it could've been a mistake.  

Still, they've got Massa to look forward to.

LOL

 Williams are desperately trying to gets some points, why on earth would they sabotage the car just to make Pastor look bad?

It can be the work of one individual, who has something personal against Maldonado. It doesn't have to be a "team decision".

I just get tired of Maldonado/Grosjean/etc. being **** on around here when the same people bitching give other drivers a free pass. 

I think any driver would get criticized if they did the things Pastor has done (claim sabotage, cause crashes and refuse to accept responsibility, use car as weapon etc). 

Edited by bub, 16 November 2013 - 20:49.

SkyF1: Williams refute apparent accusation of sabotage from disgruntled Pastor Maldonado
 

Claire Williams claims they would never "sabotage" their own driver....

Obviously, she has a very poor memory or is just a not very accomplished liar.

Williams has a history of screwing with their drivers. From packing up and leaving while their driver gets his winner's trophy (when the 'wrong' driver won) to building a slower car for Zanardi and giving the faster one to Schumacher.

Why? Who knows? The fact is that it happens. So I wouldn't dismiss Maldonado's words out of hand because of Williams' previous....

It is clear that Maldonado is unhappy with the shite cars Williams has produced 2 out 3 years he's been there and he has engineered his release from the team.

Yet the team promptly announces it has signed Massa and Bottas, spinning it as if it was their decision to cut Maldonado loose.

And now he is very slow all of a sudden.....I call shenanigans!

I'd like to see him dropped. I'm not completely against his sometimes erratic antics on track, but his attitude is unforgivable for an F1 driver. This is the same reason why I don't like Paul di Resta at all. 

I just hope they won't call Barrichello. 

Terrible attitude but if I'm honest, I love seeing a vocal character spicing things up a little bit. It's a nice change from the usual PR-script bull. 

Not surprised it is Maldonado either, he's just one of those guys who lets rip when he sees that red mist.

Claire Williams claims they would never "sabotage" their own driver....

 

Obviously, she has a very poor memory or is just a not very accomplished liar.

 

Williams has a history of screwing with their drivers. From packing up and leaving while their driver gets his winner's trophy (when the 'wrong' driver won) to building a slower car for Zanardi and giving the faster one to Schumacher.

 

Why? Who knows? The fact is that it happens. So I wouldn't dismiss Maldonado's words out of hand because of Williams' previous....

It is clear that Maldonado is unhappy with the shite cars Williams has produced 2 out 3 years he's been there and he has engineered his release from the team.

Yet the team promptly announces it has signed Massa and Bottas, spinning it as if it was their decision to cut Maldonado loose.

 

And now he is very slow all of a sudden.....I call shenanigans!

Sources please?

I'd like to see him dropped. I'm not completely against his sometimes erratic antics on track, but his attitude is unforgivable for an F1 driver. This is the same reason why I don't like Paul di Resta at all. 

 

I just hope they won't call Barrichello. 

This.

It can be the work of one individual, who has something personal against Maldonado. It doesn't have to be a "team decision".

Team member's get a bonuses based on the WCC standings, often on the number of points scored, why would they risk costing themselves money for the sake of a petty piece of vengance and secondly that's highly unprofessional and gross misconduct, a sackable offence! This isn't a game, people's career's and earnings depend on the team's performance and that's not an exaggeration, please get some perspective and think about what you're suggesting.

Sky spoke to Brawn during qualifying.  He said that the conditions had changed and he expected the more intelligent to be more able to overcome the problems.  I've seen enough of Maldonado to know he's not one of the intelligent drivers.  That someone like him may find himself driving a potential winning car next year shows just how standards have fallen in F1 and how desperate teams are for the money that pay drivers bring.

Martin Brundle also suggested Williams may have chosen to listen to Bottas for a change, as Maldonado was no longer their No 1 driver.

I don't think Williams sabotaged his car, but I think it's pretty reasonable to be suspicious of your team if they clearly don't want you back next year, and all of a sudden you're magically 2 seconds behind a teammate who you've been consistently ahead of all year. Sauber sent Hulkenberg out in Q1 with a brake change and didn't tell him, so it's not unreasonable to think Williams might've (with good intentions) messed with his setup and he wasn't ready for it. Wait a minute, isn't this the same forum that's been claiming for years that Mark Webber gets all the bullshit parts and Red Bull sabotage him to make their golden boy look good?

 

Where is this arrogance? Because the usual party of ****-piling on the unpopular drivers on this forum is humble and reasonable, right? Yeah, Maldonado's attitude sucks. So does almost the entire team's performance and no one would give two shits if it wasn't Williams with all their history and a big British flag next to their name. I notice Frank didn't have much to say about Pastor's attitude when he was handing over a cheque to keep his entire team afloat. I didn't see Claire complaining when Maldonado put that mediocre at best car on the front row at Spain and then gave Williams their first win a decade. No one had anything bad to say about him then. Maybe I've got the wrong standings, but mine say Pastor Maldonado 1 point, Valtteri Bottas 0 points. Does that mean that he can be a prick? No. Does it mean he can be unprofessional? No. But that team has a lot to be thankful to him for in the past couple seasons, not the least of which might be their entire continued existence, and the fact he brought some genuine, deserved glory to that team when Mark Webber, Antonio Pizzonia, Nick Heidfeld, Marc Gene, Nico Rosberg, Alexander Wurz, Kazuki Nakajima, Nico Hulkenberg, Rubens Barrichello and Bruno Senna didn't.

 

I don't want to come off like I love the guy or something, Bottas is probably a better bet for them moving forward and Williams would know a hell of a lot more about that than I would. I just get tired of Maldonado/Grosjean/etc. being **** on around here when the same people bitching give other drivers a free pass. Where are the threads about Perez being an entitled little ****? Why isn't there a thread for Button complaining about the car on live TV literally every single race this season? Where are the threads about Raikkonen bitching at his team on the radio every chance he gets? A little consistency would be nice. The history of this sport was written primarily by rich kids, prima donnas and drivers who blamed everyone but themselves. It's fair to say Maldonado's attitude is ****, because it is. But it's not fair to make out like it's only him when he's a drop in the ocean.

Did I touch a sensitive topic for you?

I agree pretty much with your general message and am too lazy to pick stuff out I don't, but ought we not  at least try to elevate the prose in here, instead of seeking the lowest common denominator?

Quality posters are hard to come by -- cheap shots are easy -- and I know you can do better.

No hard feelings mate.

Edit: a sentence corrected

Edited by Pothead4Philosopher, 17 November 2013 - 02:49.

Sources please?

Don't. Please.

Edited by dau, 16 November 2013 - 21:00.

 Williams are desperately trying to gets some points, why on earth would they sabotage the car just to make Pastor look bad? He's not the only one off the pace, Rosberg and Massa are a fair way behind their respective teammates.

Yeah it doesn't make sense, this is a professional racing team made up of hundreds of people, the idea they'd deliberately sabotage him doesn't sit well with me, I find it massively unlikely.

I don't think Williams sabotaged his car, but I think it's pretty reasonable to be suspicious of your team if they clearly don't want you back next year, and all of a sudden you're magically 2 seconds behind a teammate who you've been consistently ahead of all year. 

 Bottas has out qualified and out raced Pastor on multiple times this season in his rookie year.

 

Maldonado has been consistently the better driver this year and all of a sudden he's 1.5seconds slower.

Bottas leads the quali battle 11-7.

Bottas hasn't made many mistakes this year either. It's Maldonado that has been all over the place this weekend, once again.

I really don't like Maldonado maybe after yesterday comments made by Hulk and today's made by Pastor about williams Perez has improved his chances of joining Lotus.

I can't wait for the moaning bxxxhing war at Lotus next year. Two of the worst spoiled-brats in the same team.. In addition to the 2012's worst nightmare of crash-masters..

Edited by SpaMaster, 16 November 2013 - 22:13.

Okay, maybe Maldos car was sabotaged - we can't really know. But while it's easy to make the car slower, Willams according to this theory also must make the other Willams comfortably a Q3 car for the gap to be this big - Maldonado was just a place or two back from his usual starting positions. If Williams knew how to suddenly unlock this potential in the car, I'm pretty sure they would have wanted more of that earlier in the season...

On the other hand, another theory would be that Bottas did a pretty good job coping with the different conditions in Q compared to FP. Personally, I favour the simple and reasonable explanations...

Not the way to impress any big teams really. They've dropped a lot of talented drivers from their lists just for the possibility of bad PR. 

Did he drive slowly on purpose and then throw **** at the fan for good effect?

I don't think Williams sabotaged his car, but I think it's pretty reasonable to be suspicious of your team if they clearly don't want you back next year, and all of a sudden you're magically 2 seconds behind a teammate who you've been consistently ahead of all year. Sauber sent Hulkenberg out in Q1 with a brake change and didn't tell him, so it's not unreasonable to think Williams might've (with good intentions) messed with his setup and he wasn't ready for it. Wait a minute, isn't this the same forum that's been claiming for years that Mark Webber gets all the bullshit parts and Red Bull sabotage him to make their golden boy look good?
 
Where is this arrogance? Because the usual party of ****-piling on the unpopular drivers on this forum is humble and reasonable, right? Yeah, Maldonado's attitude sucks. So does almost the entire team's performance and no one would give two shits if it wasn't Williams with all their history and a big British flag next to their name. I notice Frank didn't have much to say about Pastor's attitude when he was handing over a cheque to keep his entire team afloat. I didn't see Claire complaining when Maldonado put that mediocre at best car on the front row at Spain and then gave Williams their first win a decade. No one had anything bad to say about him then. Maybe I've got the wrong standings, but mine say Pastor Maldonado 1 point, Valtteri Bottas 0 points. Does that mean that he can be a prick? No. Does it mean he can be unprofessional? No. But that team has a lot to be thankful to him for in the past couple seasons, not the least of which might be their entire continued existence, and the fact he brought some genuine, deserved glory to that team when Mark Webber, Antonio Pizzonia, Nick Heidfeld, Marc Gene, Nico Rosberg, Alexander Wurz, Kazuki Nakajima, Nico Hulkenberg, Rubens Barrichello and Bruno Senna didn't.
 
I don't want to come off like I love the guy or something, Bottas is probably a better bet for them moving forward and Williams would know a hell of a lot more about that than I would. I just get tired of Maldonado/Grosjean/etc. being **** on around here when the same people bitching give other drivers a free pass. Where are the threads about Perez being an entitled little ****? Why isn't there a thread for Button complaining about the car on live TV literally every single race this season? Where are the threads about Raikkonen bitching at his team on the radio every chance he gets? A little consistency would be nice. The history of this sport was written primarily by rich kids, prima donnas and drivers who blamed everyone but themselves. It's fair to say Maldonado's attitude is ****, because it is. But it's not fair to make out like it's only him when he's a drop in the ocean.

Pretty laughable excuse that Williams sabotaged his car, he just wants to take the thunder away from Bottas. IMO, I think he is just **** at working with his engineers on setup and pointing them in the right direction development wise.

Don't. Please.

Do.  Please.  You can't bring something like that up and then brush it away.  If it's relevant to this discussion, it needs to be laid out.  

Probably the most exciting thing that will happen this race!

Maldonado has more point than Bottas. It´s the only thing that matters in the end. So unless Valtteri can show his racecraft tomorrow and/or in Brazil, the statistics that we remember will be Pastor 1 - Valtteri 0

Dunno, I think his comments from today will be more memorable than the point he scored this season. Deliberate own goal counts for a lot.

 

 

I don't want to come off like I love the guy or something, Bottas is probably a better bet for them moving forward and Williams would know a hell of a lot more about that than I would. I just get tired of Maldonado/Grosjean/etc. being **** on around here when the same people bitching give other drivers a free pass. Where are the threads about Perez being an entitled little ****? Why isn't there a thread for Button complaining about the car on live TV literally every single race this season? Where are the threads about Raikkonen bitching at his team on the radio every chance he gets? A little consistency would be nice. The history of this sport was written primarily by rich kids, prima donnas and drivers who blamed everyone but themselves. It's fair to say Maldonado's attitude is ****, because it is. But it's not fair to make out like it's only him when he's a drop in the ocean.

I on the other hand, really didn't like your post

How is Perez an 'entitled little ****'??  Button does complain about understeer/oversteer a lot when sometimes maybe he just made mistakes but how does that compare to implying your team is totally corrupt?  If Raikkonen 'bitches at this team on the radio' surely you would feel strongly about what Maldonado said?

What reason would people have to be inconsistent with who they criticize anyway?  If Maldonado isn't popular it's hardly because of discrimination is it, he had the same chance to be popular as the other drivers

Edited by SamH123, 16 November 2013 - 23:06.

Would be amusing if they put Susie in at Interlagos but that's never gonna happen

I wonder where team would have been without all those petro dollars... Fighting with Caterhams maybe? Oh, wait, that finnish star was doing this all year 

are you one of those money men from Venezuela?

 and all of a sudden you're magically 2 seconds behind a teammate who you've been consistently ahead of all year. 

Stopped reading after this stupid nonsense.

On the other hand, another theory would be that Bottas did a pretty good job coping with the different conditions in Q compared to FP. Personally, I favour the simple and reasonable explanations...

The last time Williams was fast enough for Q3 was in Canada and at that time the diference was very similar so I believe it's mainly Bottas

I don't think Williams sabotaged his car, but I think it's pretty reasonable to be suspicious of your team if they clearly don't want you back next year, and all of a sudden you're magically 2 seconds behind a teammate who you've been consistently ahead of all year.

 

Just show us the consistancy of Maldo being ahead of all year in quali

 I didn't see Claire complaining when Maldonado put that mediocre at best car on the front row at Spain and then gave Williams their first win a decade.

Where has she complained now?  All I've heard her say is adrenaline can get the better of drivers and that she utterly denies Williams sabotaged his car. I think she's been remarkably restrained.

Considering Caterham and Marussia have never scored a point in their existence it would take more than a freak race to ensure a point for either of them.

 

Who knows what the team have done, if anything only they will know but it doesn't take much to get tyre pressures unbalanced. I'm not saying they did but I wouldn't be surprised either.

Tighten your tinfoil helmet, their coming   

Pastor is a fast and aggressive driver with a penchant for brain fade and rash overtaking maneuvers. Obviously, the relationship inside the Williams garage has soured, but I'd say an incredible accusation like he's leveled at the team should require an equally astounding level of proof. I doubt we're going to see that, but something about this story did seem eerily familiar to me, and then the Google Machine produced this:

"Oct.9 (GMM) F1's governing body has opened a new investigation into McLaren, amid claims that the Woking based team may have sabotaged Fernando Alonso's car in China, reports on Tuesday said. At the conclusion of the espionage saga last month, FIA president Max Mosley warned that the Paris body would closely monitor McLaren for signs of retribution against the Spaniard's involvement in providing evidence that ultimately cost the team $100 million and exclusion from the constructors' world championship.

The Spanish newspaper La Nueva Espana claims that Alonso's tyres were extremely over-inflated due to being heated too much prior to the 'Q3' section of qualifying in Shanghai.

"I think they are still investigating," the 26-year-old had told reporters on Sunday, 24 hours after the incident that left him baffled and six tenths slower than his teammate, championship rival and pole-sitter Lewis Hamilton. Alonso added: "I think the tyre pressures were quite high, more than normal, but I don't know if it was that or another explanation."

Point being, it wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened in an iconic F1 team when a relationship goes bad.

Edited by PoleMan, 16 November 2013 - 23:39.

Yep, and all those unforgettable close fights with Van Der Garde.

Yep, you need to keep your car on track to fight.

Just show us the consistancy of Maldo being ahead of all year in quali

Indeed, Vale leads 11-7 in that count -- and the races stand at 9-8 (for PM then), that is as even as 17 can be divided up, right? It is not like Maldo has shown any superiority towards his rookie team-mate at any level. PM has had 3 ret. vs. Vale's 1, but when Pastor retires, it is seldom the fault of the car, but the man himself.

I don't know if Williams did 'something' with Maldonado's car, but I found his comments BEFORE this weekend rather arrogant and annoying... At least, it does not make me really eager to take his complaints seriously...

But that team has a lot to be thankful to him for in the past couple seasons, not the least of which might be their entire continued existence, and the fact he brought some genuine, deserved glory to that team when Mark Webber, Antonio Pizzonia, Nick Heidfeld, Marc Gene, Nico Rosberg, Alexander Wurz, Kazuki Nakajima, Nico Hulkenberg, Rubens Barrichello and Bruno Senna didn't.

 

 

And his performances give him a free pass to doucheville and the right to insinuate the team is sabotaging his car in public? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but none of the drivers you mentioned above have done the same, and they also endured some pretty rough times at Williams. Not even Webber has publicly pointed out RBR sabotaging his rides, nor Kimi during his Ferrari days in 2008, nor Barrichello during the Schumi era, and the list goes on. This case is not even comparable to all the other cases mentioned, because the words coming out of his mouth are some serious accusations. He can **** gold on track for all I care, it still doesn't mean he can just accuse his team of this, at least not in public. Dirty laundries should be handled behind closed doors, especially after seeing the Lotus financial case. 

The guy deserves all the rant he can get - he's been a whiny little prick since the car has not been to his liking, because he thinks that one victory puts him on some moral high ground.

I wonder what you all lynching each other for. The damage is done and Pastor spoke out of his bottom out of fustration and even let's call it envy.. Vale did great.

And as Martin Brundle said once upon a time "moan about it until it goes faster" but TBH he just took a dump on the mic.

Let's move on.

The fact that he did grab that win last year means I'm holding him to an even higher standard, making his behaviour even more unacceptable in my eyes.

Pastor is a fast and aggressive driver with a penchant for brain fade and rash overtaking maneuvers. Obviously, the relationship inside the Williams garage has soured, but I'd say an incredible accusation like he's leveled at the team should require an equally astounding level of proof. I doubt we're going to see that, but something about this story did seem eerily familiar to me, and then the Google Machine produced this:

 

 

 

Point being, it wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened in an iconic F1 team when a relationship goes bad.

A Spanish newspaper saying something isn't evidence that it actually happened, or that there was a motivation of sabotage.  Nor does it lend credibility to Maldonado's claims in this instance.

Williams have no reason to sabotage Maldonado, especially as they sit on only 1 point so far this season.  Maldonado on the otherhand can't wait to exit the team, isn't interested in racing at the back and believes he is worth so much more.  He's been quite open in the press about such lately.  I don't think his poor attitude began with a disappointing qualifying.  Perhaps he just arsed around completely disinterested and was a tad shocked to see the Q3 potential of the car?  Such speculation is as sound as Maldonado's accusations.  Or perhaps the more logical reason that in a session where track conditions were different from any time previously in the weekend he just failed to hit the sweet spot with the tyres, much like a few other non-sabotaged drivers did too.

Edited by P123, 17 November 2013 - 00:15.

A Spanish newspaper saying something isn't evidence that it actually happened, or that there was a motivation of sabotage.  Nor does it lend credibility to Maldonado's claims in this instance.

 

Williams have no reason to sabotage Maldonado.  Maldonado on the otherhand can't wait to exit the team, isn't interested in racing at the back and believes he is worth so much more.  He's been quite open in the press about such lately.  I don't think his poor attitude began with a disappointing qualifying.  Perhaps he just arsed around completely disinterested and was a tad shocked to see the Q3 potential of the car?  Such speculation is as sound as Maldonado's accusations.  Or perhaps the more logical reason that in a session where track conditions were different from any time previously in the weekend he just failed to hit the sweet spot with the tyres, much like a few other non-sabotaged drivers did too.

I'm not looking to sidetrack this discussion, but are the quotes not Alonso's? He says, flatly, that the tyre pressures were abnormally high. Are you accusing him of lying? What evidence do you have? In response to Alonso's observation (and a few other odd occurences), the FIA placed monitors inside the McLaren garage to ensure fairness to all parties. Did a Spanish newspaper make up those things, or are they simply a matter of historical record? SHEESH!

I'm not looking to sidetrack this discussion, but are the quotes not Alonso's? He says, flatly, that the tyre pressures were abnormally high. Are you accusing him of lying?

Alternatively, was there any evidence?