IndyCar 2014 Official Thread

I would be more than up for it if I weren't up to my eyeballs in reading on the Counter-Reformation and in snotty Kleenex tissues. I'll happily make a thread or two during the Summer months, though.

I'll be up for making the thread when I get home from work in approx. 1 hour.

No worries, I'm off sick from work today and this can be my gift to the world that isn't germs.

Huertas has Juan Valdez sponsorship on his race suit

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 08 May 2014 - 14:56.

http://motorsportsta...ry-in-indy-500/

Helio is my favorite for the 500 now. 

http://motorsportsta...ry-in-indy-500/

 

Helio is my favorite for the 500 now. 

+1.  Love that scheme.  Just coincidence it's announced on throwback Thursday?    

I haven't read this but it is supposed to be good.

http://www.amazon.co...e62cf-362689402

1980 Chaparral 2K, 2014 entry, 1988 Penske PC-17.

Edited by red stick, 08 May 2014 - 20:56.

Damn the Dallara is a big car. But the best at the DW-12 has been.

I'm not even kidding, I think the DW12 looks the nicest of the bunch.

(booty reasons).

Looks more in keeping with those 80s cars than I'd have expected. This is the last year for this body shape so it's good to make peace with it at last.

Great to see Johnny Rutherford back in the 500!!!

Those posters who showed concern about the competing drivers ages will be calling Mumsnet again.

Jp

I'm not even kidding, I think the DW12 looks the nicest of the bunch.

 

(booty reasons).

Might have to agree with that statement. 

(Bit more of a boob guy myself though)

It's interesting that the cars are mechanically very similar in size. The cockpit to gearbox volume is about the same. It's just that on those old cars the energy absorbing structures are either your legs or not present. Obviously the semi-enclosed rear wheels on the DW12 add to the bulkiness, but that's just bodywork.

Oddly enough, I always thought the Dallara was a bit stubby-looking, but I didn't realize it was so huge compared to the others. The Penske is my favorite of the three by far. I like the Chaparral more for what it was compared to its contemporaries, rather than what it is compared to the cars that followed.

Wow, nothing here since May 9?  So there's nothing general or non-specific about Indycar since then?  Hmmm.  Ok...

A message to all the F1 noobs and trolls.  Indycar is not imitating F1 with it's "double points." for their 500 mile races.  It's the other way around as the point system from the 20s on used to be based on race distance, with a points per mile format.  Thus, from the 50s through the 70s the winner of the Indianapolis 500 (or the 500-mile races at Ontario and Pocono) used to receive 5x the points of the winner of a 100-mile race.  So, it has a long history with Indy car type racing.  Actually, F1 is imitating U.S. short oval tracks, many of which used to have "double points" race(s) in season as far back as the 1960s.  Often these were extra distance or a major or historic event, so F1 didn't even get that right.

But, it's not Indycar imitating F1.  History.  Learn it. Know it. Live it.

Edited for clarification 

Edited by Jim Thurman, 03 July 2014 - 21:19.

I think since the Indy weekend there's never not been a race thread near the top of the index... Speaking of which, Pocono thread can be found right here. Hands up if anyone can say what a saturation point is.

You're absolutely right though, and not just factually.

Edited by Risil, 03 July 2014 - 19:42.

Don't tell me you've never heard of the Indy 1000

Don't tell me you've never heard of the Indy 1000

I've experienced the Indy 1000: its the Indy 500 after two-many libations!

Except the bit about a 500 mile race being 10x the distance (and therefore points) of a 100 mile race.

Multiplication. Learn it. Know it. Live it.

   Well, I forgot to mention the "points per mile" format.  Corrected.  The winner of a 500-mile race got 5x the points of the winner of a 100-mile race. So, a lot more than "double points"

When was this "gimmick" created? How about 1920...30 years before "F1"

While there were five different point systems used from 1916 to 1981, the 5x difference for race winners at those distances remained the same save for between 1930-35 when it was weighted even more heavily, with 600 for a 500-mile win to 120 for a 100-mile win.

The fifth of those five point systems was also the one used the longest, from 1946 (again, before "F1") through 1980.

See, if I was Andrew or several other posters here, I could claim I was ...

but, no, it was simple

plus not being very good at math...

   Well, I forgot to mention the "points per mile" format.  Corrected.  The winner of a 500-mile race got 5x the points of the winner of a 100-mile race. So, a lot more than "double points"
 
When was this "gimmick" created? How about 1920...30 years before "F1"
 
While there were five different point systems used from 1916 to 1981, the 5x difference for race winners at those distances remained the same save for between 1930-35 when it was weighted even more heavily, with 600 for a 500-mile win to 120 for a 100-mile win.
 
The fifth of those five point systems was also the one used the longest, from 1946 (again, before "F1") through 1980.

Will Jim hate me even more if I now point out that 600/120 =5?!

I think points per mile was too extreme - I've said before that Bryan really should have beaten Sweikert, based on results.

Double points for the 500 milers is perfect though.

No, not at all   I meant weighted more in terms of numbers.  You see, 600 is greater than 500...    (ah, that's what I get for rushing, even more for rushing while tired)

The error in the original post wasn't one of math, at least not as claimed, it was in failing to point out the points per mile.  I never wrote that a 500-mile race was 10x the distance of a 100-mile race, just that the points were (erm, they weren't...they were only 5x). That was the error.

I think points per mile was too extreme - I've said before that Bryan really should have beaten Sweikert, based on results.
 

What's amazing, and downright bizarre, is how many times drivers that won the '500' failed to win the points championships.  After Indianapolis (which usually opened the season), the winner had a huge advantage...and yet...

How many times did the Indy winner complete the full season though? They often seemed to get busted up ( eg Wallard, Ruttman, Flaherty) or just voluntarily not go for the title (eg Vukie, Hanks, Bryan).

How many times did the Indy winner complete the full season though? They often seemed to get busted up ( eg Wallard, Ruttman, Flaherty) or just voluntarily not go for the title (eg Vukie, Hanks, Bryan).

I was counting all the times they got busted up, since they planned on running the whole series.  I guess it leaves only Johnnie Parsons in 1950 as the sole '500' winner to make it through the entire schedule and still lose the championship.

The 1952 championship was just insane.  Full of twists and turns.  Someone should have talked to those guys when they were still around.  It would make a great story.  Ruttman misses the last 2/3 of the season and still almost won the championship.  Seemingly every time someone would challenge, they'd get hurt or DNQ for a race (or two).

did anyone see the times from the Mid-Ohio test a couple of days ago? Last year (or two years ago, can't remember) they were leaked somwehere I think

Conor Daly tests the new Indy Lights car:

https://www.youtube....h?v=8YsLin84PGU

It's a good looking car(though can we get someone other than Dallara to build race cars?) but I feel like it's more of the same. Which is to say it won't help Indylights.

They needed to do something radical. Use production based engines, or a much more simple car, or something. Get the costs way way down.

If the Indylights car looks this good (or normal rather) hopefully the 2015 aero kits will look this good too.     

http://cdn.images.au.../1400798585.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.co...dtQCMAADcUT.jpg

Looks so much better than the indycars themselves (same tub yes?).     

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 01 August 2014 - 15:09.

Not really a fan of the wide flat noses though.

It's a good looking car(though can we get someone other than Dallara to build race cars?) but I feel like it's more of the same. Which is to say it won't help Indylights.

 

They needed to do something radical. Use production based engines, or a much more simple car, or something. Get the costs way way down.

The new car had to meet speed and safety targets. What exactly is the "same" Ross?

 

Looks so much better than the indycars themselves (same tub yes?).     

No, but it is designed to help drivers transition to the Indycar. The seats are the same, for instance.

More of the same = expensive, small-grid racing

More of the same = expensive, small-grid racing

Expensive compared to what? GP2? GP3?

Here's Marshall Pruett's take on that question:

Mass producing a full carbon tub, a bespoke bell housing, sourcing a proper transmission, all of the data systems, electronics and paddle-shifting bits, brake systems, suspension, dampers, wings, bodywork and the floor has become an expensive endeavor – no matter who's manufacturing the car. Going to a chassis made from either a steel tubeframe wrapped in aluminum panels or a spaceframe monocoque using aluminum honeycomb panels would be the first area to save money, but the last open-wheel ladder series car I worked on that featured that type of construction was the Swift DB-4 in 1991, and even then, only the bottom half of the chassis was made from aluminum honeycomb – the top half was carbon. Reverting back to decades-old construction materials and methods would drop the price, but I'm not sure we'd be maintaining the necessary level of safety. Simply put, if you go low-tech, the price comes down, but with a 12-year-old Indy Lights chassis currently in use and painfully small grids, it's safe to say going even lower tech with a next-generation car would make the problem worse. A kid wanting to reach the Indy 500 or F1 wants to drive a cutting-edge car at the top rung of the ladder and, in 2014, those cars aren't cheap.

 

Expensive compared to everything. Other forms of racing. What it's worth. Your odds of getting anywhere. Etc.

You can run reasonably competitively in the Indy 500 for the same price as a season of Indylights. In very few circumstances will Indylights offer more for the money.

I think Marshall is taking the easy way out on that one. As is Dallara. But the latter aren't interested in selling cheaper cars, are they.

I feel like they made the series more attractive by having a prettier car, and that's it.

Or you can run Lights to prepare for the big cars, win the title and get multiple Indycar races including the 500 as a scholarship prize.

The car (and its price) is just one part of the equation. Lights had big fields when it was on ESPN (particularly 2008) and paid decent prize money (ie through title sponsors for the races). Now it could be that Carlin, Foyt, Rahal and co aren't serious about running in the series, but I'm seeing a lot more interest in Indy Lights lately.

You could have 50 teams, but unless there's funded drivers...

National Guard pulling sponsorship for Rahal in Indycar and Earnhardt in NASCAR after 2014:

http://www.usatoday....onsor/13700789/

Hendrick says that they have a contract at the current level for 2015 with them also.

Is it possible we've got to the point where every member of the Junior Nation has tried to enlist and been turned down?

 'What's up with that? This isn't Indycar!'
 

I think we should just make that a standard phrase for when something really out of the ordinary happens.

So has anyone actually bought the new Lights car yet?

So has anyone actually bought the new Lights car yet?

Not that we know of. I, and I believe most in IndyCar hope that the chassis will create a renewed interest in the way the Swift 06 chassis brought 30+ entries to the Atlantics in '06. Sadly, I think this will be the death of the series.

Problem is the Pro Mazda series. Always has kinda been in North America. It doesn't fit, as it was supposed to be the same level as Formula 2000. Now it is the odd series between F2000 and Lights. People like to argue that there is too many series in Europe, we have the same issues in the States as well. 

A whopping 3 feeder series on the entire ladder is too many? There are 4 Formula Renault 2.0-level series alone in Europe. Pro Mazda had 21 entries for Mid-Ohio which is better than any national F3 championship...

As for the Lights car, what do you base that on? I've seen Foyt, Rahal and a team branded Hylton Grand Prix all express interest. Davey Hamilton Jr had a seat fitting, so that almost certainly means Hamilton Sr is running a team next year. EuroInternational and Carlin already mentioned it in late 2013.

Edited by Prost1997T, 07 August 2014 - 22:18.

Honda reckons fans are in for a surprise with their new aero kits. Article about it on the front page.

Have to say I'm fairly excited to see what they come up with. The DW12 is not aging well at all. 

A whopping 3 feeder series on the entire ladder is too many? There are 4 Formula Renault 2.0-level series alone in Europe. Pro Mazda had 21 entries for Mid-Ohio which is better than any national F3 championship...

 

As for the Lights car, what do you base that on? I've seen Foyt, Rahal and a team branded Hylton Grand Prix all express interest. Davey Hamilton Jr had a seat fitting, so that almost certainly means Hamilton Sr is running a team next year. EuroInternational and Carlin already mentioned it in late 2013.

Europe doesn't have to compete with Nascar and drag racing though.

Can't flood a market when there isn't enough water.