Crazy Indy 500 stories: Quiz

Great interview, many thanks! HH was always one of the more entertaining guys in racing, and even if he doesn't get all the facts straight, it's a great pleasure to "chat with him" that way. I mean, "oh, we're guys, what are feelings?", or "I used to be 6 foot six" the guy's just hilarious! But the thing that sticks in my mind is his mention of testing a March Indycar (probably the Orbiter) at Winchester Speedway Oh boy, that must've been some experience...

Er, I don't really feel like I have answered the last question, so if anyone wants to pose a new one, please go ahead!

EDIT: And congratulations to Michael with his 2000th post!

Oh, I'm well past that... 

Er, I don't really feel like I have answered the last question, so if anyone wants to pose a new one, please go ahead!

I think E.B. should ask his question.

Oh, I'm well past that... 

Yes, I know what you mean.  But I prefer not to be too complicated here making the conjunction. 

Can I ask one please, which is a more open one to other people?

The average age of ALL competitors (including non-qualifiers, excluding racing mechanics) saw its three lowest, or youngest, average age in three successive years. Which three?

If it helps at all, the averages are

? = 23.97

? = 25.94

? = 28.03

Special bonus point if you can name what year the oldest average all of all competitors, aged 42.02 was...

Sorry, maybe I've made this too large a window? A clue for both, they were pre-WW2.

I'll start the guessing: the three youngest years were 1911, '12 & '13, and the oldest 1941.

Don't have anything to contribute except thanks for the interesting info! 

You are only one digit out of the oldest too...

Well, that's not too difficult, then!

Richard, out of interest, and only if it's easy to do (I suppose you can copy from your data base), but can you post the entire list, maybe even split into starters and complete entry?

NEW QUESTION: In the days before tits were banned from the pits, there was one year when two female car owners and one female "pit manager" watched over three cars in the field, and their combined average finishing position was more than twice better than that of their male colleagues. Which year?

Well, that's not too difficult, then!

 

Richard, out of interest, and only if it's easy to do (I suppose you can copy from your data base), but can you post the entire list, maybe even split into starters and complete entry?

 

Not quite, as it was 1931!

Well, I was going to give you a whole load of data, but having gone into the file only today, it's said;

Damage to the file was so extensive that repairs were not possible. Excel attempted to recover your formulas and values, but some data may have been lost or corrupted.

So it looks like all the data I had in there has either gone or is just gobblydegook. I only updated it the other day for Gary Bettenhausen's death and it seems to have thrown a wobbly afterwards. Real shame, 8 years work lost.....

Here's what I posted about 7 years ago though  on Trackforum- http://www.trackforu...ht=#post1441025 - obviously a lot of the data is not quite accurate, but you get the general drift - Frank Burany is creeping up the oldest ever drivers, 99 this year. Obviously I've learnt Jack Reynolds was the oldest ever Indy 500 racer.

Indy 500 Driver Ages Stats

 

~

 

Damage to the file was so extensive that repairs were not possible. Excel attempted to recover your formulas and values, but some data may have been lost or corrupted.

 

~

 

With the 100% wisdom of hindsight - yet another tale making the case for keeping a backup.

Having said that, you do genuinely have my sympathies

NEW QUESTION: In the days before tits were banned from the pits, there was one year when two female car owners and one female "pit manager" watched over three cars in the field, and their combined average finishing position was more than twice better than that of their male colleagues. Which year?

Does it involve a future Mrs Caracciola and a past Mrs Batten? 1929 if so.

Correctamundo.

Alice Hoffmann-Trobeck accompanied Louis Chiron to Indy as an interpreter and "pit manager". She was reportedly present throughout the month to time Chiron's practice laps, and direct operations at the pits. It was speculated before Memorial Day whether she would be allowed to perform her tasks during the actual race, as the (in)famous ban on women was apparently only enforced on race days at the time, and the outcome isn't entirely clear: some have speculated that she actually sat on a small platform atop of the famous diner behind the pits! Chiron drove an uncharacteristically uninspired race, and was running twenty laps in arrears and in 9th position when he stopped ten laps from the finish, but actually several minutes after the winner had already been flagged in. Thus, very few observers realized that the famous Grand Prix star stepped from the racer, to make way for his countryman Jules Moriceau, who drove the last fifteen minutes of the race in the Delage which was finally flagged off in 7th position after a couple of dramas involving higher placed cars.

Marion Batten was the widow of Norm Batten, relief driver on the winning Duesenberg in 1925, and victim of a maritime accident the past November. Contrary to modern rumours, Norm's car was not aboard the sinking ship, and Marion entered it in 1929 for a number of prospective buyers, until selling it in the fall. At Indy, several drivers tried it in practice, before journeyman Wes Crawford qualified and started the race near the back of the field, giving way to a succession of relief drivers. Veteran Zeke Meyer, who had finished 5th in 1928 after relieving Batten, then still healing from the spectacular fire accident the year before, drove about 50 laps in mid-race, charging from way back into 5th place at half distance, and actually running the fastest laps of the entire field during that period, but the engine soon developed a misfire, and after a few more stops and driver changes it retired soon after from 9th position.

Maude A. Yagle was the wife of Edward C. Yagle, who made his money in real estate and spent it on racing! Perhaps to keep from spending even more money courtesy of the IRS, Ed entered his cars under Maude's initials "M. A. Yagle", but by 1929 the press had gotten wind of the fact that there was a woman owner behind one of the strongest teams in the nation! Ed remained the de facto head of operations, but Maude used to show up for the races, and seemingly revelled in her role. During the mid-twenties, the Yagles had run a multi-car operation in independent dirt track racing in the East, and when the opportunity arose to buy a second-hand Speedway Miller in late 1925, Ed couldn't resist. After Frank Lockhart's death in early 1928, the speed king's spare car was added to the stable, and with Ray Keech at the controls the team finished runner-up to National Champion Louie Meyer in the other ex-Lockhart car, then duelled with Meyer for the 1929 Indy bonanza. Fifty laps from the finish, Keech was running second and closing in on the leading Meyer, whose oil pressure began to sag. In a desperate attempt to stave off the challenge, the champion chose to stop at the pits to top up the oil, but the engine refused to start up again - for nearly seven minutes!

Still, Keech wasn't yet home and dry, for there was another challenger, a Californian rookie by the unlikely name of Barney Kloepfer, who'd taken over Lou Moore's front-running Miller at half distance, and was now closing in mercilessly: twenty laps from home, he was less than half a minute behind, and that at a time when races were usually won by several minutes - it was the closest finale that two cars had ever staged during a 500 mile race at the Speedway, even more exciting than the 1925 finish! Alas, all was not well with the green (wouldn't you know!) challenger, and with but five miles to go, it headed for the pits, smoke pouring from the engine. Moore replaced Kloepfer once again, but the car didn't last another lap - out! And thus, Maude Yagle became the first ever female car owner in history to win the fabulous Indy 500

Edited by Michael Ferner, 20 March 2014 - 16:28.

All finished second - if that's what you mean?

You're right, I'd already realized that Hughie was "only" third; it was Wishart who was second in the same car.

Ah, they were all the first driver home without relief, yet not winners!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 25 March 2014 - 15:45.

Like father, like son - the history of the Indy 500 abounds with family tradition! In his long career, A. J. Foyt junior raced against most fathers and sons of former or future Indy 500 drivers who ever competed in the great race themselves. In fact, there was never a single race in all of Indy's rich history, in which more than one driver (including relief drivers) competed, whose father or son also started or drove relief in any other 500, and with neither of them ever competing against Foyt - actually, there was only one race in which more than one member of these father/son combinations started or drove relief, and where at least one of them never competed against Foyt! Which year?

Well, it took me at least half an hour to formulate!

And I'm still not sure if I've worded it right , as Johnnie Parsons wouldn't qualify since Foyt competed against both him and his son!

Anyway, 1948 is wrong since Parsons did not compete but Bettenhausen did! Rats, I need to word it differently ... Bear with me!

Okay, let's try it this way: ignore every driver who never had a son or a father compete in the 500! Now, ignore everyone who competed against Foyt! Lastly, ignore every race in which only one of those not yet ignored competed! Which one's left?

STOP! WRONG!!! [That's the question where the answer is "none"...]

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 March 2014 - 11:54.

Next try: ignore every driver who never had a son or a father compete in the 500! Now, ignore all those where either father or son competed against Foyt! Lastly, ignore every race in which only one of those not yet ignored competed! Which one's left? :timid smiley:

EDIT: I'm sorry, I think I managed to work my brain into a knot! Nurse, NURSE!!! 

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 March 2014 - 12:05.

And I'm still not sure if I've worded it right , as Johnnie Parsons wouldn't qualify since Foyt competed against both him and his son!

I'm sorry, I just messed this one up. Please ignore, just keep on walking, nothing to see here...  

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 March 2014 - 12:13.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I think I managed to work my brain into a knot! Nurse, NURSE!!! 

I'm sorry, I just messed this one up. Please ignore, just keep on walking, nothing to see here...  

... the world is now going to implode.

Thank god! :relief:

It's rather more serious than that. You can't refer to Foyt as a point of reference immediately after telling us to ignore him.

I now see what you were getting at, but Larry is legally his son, even if AJ is biologically his grandfather! Unless you can prove biological fatherhood for all the individuals involved, I think we should stick with the legal definition, no? 

By the way, the nurse says I should be better any minute now, so that I can give it another try.

Nurse?

...

Okay, let's have another go: ignore every driver who never had a legal son or a legal father compete in the 500! Now, ignore everyone whose father competed against Foyt, and ignore the fathers too! Lastly, ignore every race in which only one of those not yet ignored competed! Which one's left?

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 March 2014 - 13:12.

42.

Ensign is disqualified for giving an answer before posing the question*, but E. B. is rightfully reinstated, and declared the winner yet again!

Difficult to word the question, because I hit upon the idea in steps: watching a video of the '86 race last night, the commentator remarked how there were seven (?) second-generation drivers in the field, and that Foyt had raced against all of their fathers! Digging a bit, I found that Foyt had raced against all fathers in toto, except for Vukovich, Russo, Devore and Houser; he also never raced against the sons of Devore and Houser. The Vukies and Russos were more than a full generation apart, so finding a common race was almost accidental, but the Housers and Devores dodged each other rather artfully, I thought, despite both fathers and sons being born within just a few years: Houser senior started only one race (1926), but was a relief driver in 1923, 1924 and 1929, with Devore senior starting every race in between!! Devore junior, on the other hand, was a regular until his last start in 1948, the year before Houser junior qualified for his first start!

* Your penalty will be to head a commitee that will commence design & construction of a computer to find a suitable question to your answer!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 March 2014 - 16:20.

Hm. René Thomas bettered the David Bruce-Brown record by more than 6 and a half seconds on May 28 in 1914! But, oh, you said since 1923...

I hope you realize that Pete de Paolo didn't break Milton's record, because it was broken twice before on the same day!?!? Saves a bit of "red herring" work, you know...

I hope you realize that Pete de Paolo didn't break Milton's record, because it was broken twice before on the same day!?!? Saves a bit of "red herring" work, you know...

Jimmy Snyder May 22 1937: 1'08.97" (was 1'11.92" Bill Cummings May 15 1937)

Rodger Ward 57.12" May 16 1964 (was 59.27" Parnelli Jones May 18 1963)

I don't see nobody else coming close...

Ha! But de Paolo broke Hartz's record two years later!!

Pete de Paolo May 26 1927: 1'14.66" (was 1'16.73" Harry Hartz May 26 1927)

Jimmy Snyder May 22 1937: 1'08.97" (was 1'11.92" Bill Cummings May 15 1937)

Yeah, the official* list of track records makes for interesting study! One likes to think of 1972 as the year of the speed explosion, and while it is true that the record was lowered by a massive 4.42" (or 8.8 %) in one single day, it took five different drivers to accomplish this, so both Bobby U. and Billy V. are left in midfield with an identical improvement of 1.74", or roughly 3.5 %. It was also the last time that the record was bettered by (more than) a full second. But the REALLY BIG improvements happened all before WW2, both in absolute terms and in percentage:

1) René Thomas (Delage), 1914: 6.55" (6.4 %)

2) David Bruce-Brown (National), 1912: 5.08" (4.7 %)

3) René Thomas (Ballot), 1919: 4.24" (4.7 %)

4) Tommy Milton (Miller), 1923: 3.69" (4.3 %)

5) Jimmy Snyder (Sparks), 1937: 2.95" (4.1 %)

Next in the percentage list is Bobby Unser with the 1972 Eagle, and next in absolute terms Rodger Ward in the first rear-engined car to take the record. Duray only just makes the top ten (abs.) and 11th (perc.), while Hurtubise is nowhere at 20th (abs.) and 21st (perc.); Hepburn and the Novi are 8th (abs.) and 9th (perc.). Low man in both lists is Gary Bettenhausen in the Lola/Menard of 1992, because Luyendijk had taken most of Emmo's old record just 48 minutes earlier.

* "official", because there were a few unofficial records, when a run was disallowed, or the Barney Odfield record in an exposition run with the front-drive Christie

On Trackforum they'd probably dispute it with me!

On Trackforum they dispute everything outside of their tiny worlds!

A quick new question in the same vein: in 1950, Walt Faulkner broke the official track record on May 13, the first day of qualifying - it was the 22nd official record in the books, and the first to have been established on the 13th of the month. How many other days of the month of May had seen the record broken so far? Guesses are welcomed!

TIE BREAKER: Teddy Tezlaff was the first driver to hold the official track record for a second "term", in 1914. Who was the first to hold it for a third?

Edited by Michael Ferner, 26 March 2014 - 18:51.