One does not simply get a job in F1...

Not sure if this is the appropriate section, but...

I've just graduated from a prestigious university in Italy, completing a Finance, Economics and Management program, focusing mainly on Marketing/PR. Of course like any F1 nut or motorsport enthusiast without an engineering degree, I have dreamt about working in motorsport, and especially in Formula 1. But there are not so many opportunities out there for non-engineers. 

Sure, there are occasional internship programs where 2 out of 20,000 get the job. But let's be realistic - it's Mission Impossible 5 with this kind of thing. I've been starting with lower categories: GP3. Most teams are either not hiring, or hiring engineers [insert furious middle finger here]. I've moved on to Moto GP, where most jobs (even entry-level) require 1 to 2 years of experience in the motorsport industry. Needing experience to get experience to get a job where you need experience - the vicious circle of death in job hunting and most graduates know what I'm talking about. Sent a couple of e-mails to NASCAR teams, no replies, gave a few phone calls to some circuits, most of them hung up or told me to crawl back inside my creator (not explicitly but I understood it that way). 

So besides bickering (and we have enough of that here on 2014 sounds and whatnot) what's my point, you ask? How does one get a job in Formula 1 with a management/finance/economics related degree and what's the general route you need to take? Where's the best place to get experience in motorsport and what are some user suggestions, perhaps from members who work or have worked in motorsport previously? 

You don't. 

Just like a driver or press officer or whatever doesnt start out in F1(most of the time). Or MotoGP. Or NASCAR. It's like any industry or career track. You have to start at the bottom. Then you need to impress people or have good contacts, usually both. 

It's good to have dreams and a goal, but don't be one of those people that only wants to work at the top level. 

I don't want to bust your bubble, but I think that raising your middle finger because F1 teams need engineers, is a bit childish because obviously they need... engineers.

I know one friend who got a job with a F1 team who was not an engineer per se, but he was very smart with computer programming. And he was put in the research department of that team.

I am sorry, but jobs in the management/finance/economic department are never going to be filled with out-of-the-company applicants. It is just not going to happen.

The best way for you would start your own lower-formula team, or be a part of a lower-formula team and do a damn good job. 

Not sure if this is the appropriate section, but...

 

I've just graduated from a prestigious university in Italy, completing a Finance, Economics and Management program, focusing mainly on Marketing/PR. Of course like any F1 nut or motorsport enthusiast without an engineering degree, I have dreamt about working in motorsport, and especially in Formula 1. But there are not so many opportunities out there for non-engineers. 

 

Sure, there are occasional internship programs where 2 out of 20,000 get the job. But let's be realistic - it's Mission Impossible 5 with this kind of thing. I've been starting with lower categories: GP3. Most teams are either not hiring, or hiring engineers [insert furious middle finger here]. I've moved on to Moto GP, where most jobs (even entry-level) require 1 to 2 years of experience in the motorsport industry. Needing experience to get experience to get a job where you need experience - the vicious circle of death in job hunting and most graduates know what I'm talking about. Sent a couple of e-mails to NASCAR teams, no replies, gave a few phone calls to some circuits, most of them hung up or told me to crawl back inside my creator (not explicitly but I understood it that way). 

 

So besides bickering (and we have enough of that here on 2014 sounds and whatnot) what's my point, you ask? How does one get a job in Formula 1 with a management/finance/economics related degree and what's the general route you need to take? Where's the best place to get experience in motorsport and what are some user suggestions, perhaps from members who work or have worked in motorsport previously? 

Buy a copy of Autosport every week and look in the job offers section - usually they look for someone with experience, but - who knows....? Alternatively, I am not sure if Autosprint has job offers as well - of course, there is only Ferrari and Toro Rosso in F1, but there might be job offers from lower categories as well.

Next: get in touch with people who are in the business. See who inspires you and whose style or work you like and get in touch. By references many doors can open.

GP3 and GP2 teams have only one person that handles logistics and marketing. The rest of the team are engineers

What about Formula E? Surely a few jobs must be going in a few teams there.

Edited by BullHead, 20 March 2014 - 16:47.

It's not even easy for engineers to get into F1. I know, I've tried (and will continue to try).

GP3 and GP2 teams have only one person that handles logistics and marketing. The rest of the team are engineers

That's a bit brutal. No wonder I haven't seen any vacancies. 

Anyway, thank you all for the tips!

The problem is on a marketing/finance background, you just have theory right now. They want results. You need to show any race team how you benefit them. 

Probably the best thing to do would be to become a sponsorship broker...

Try F1 sponsors. 

Certainly on the finance side, you need to work from the bottom up. Bean counters don't exist anymore - I would never hire someone so narrow - and collaboration/business partnering is where you make a difference. I've found finance has been brilliant in allowing me to see the internals of the business and to contribute at an operational level (high tech engineering for reference). It's a supremely powerful position in the company too, given how close you are to what truly matters. However, without having started at the bottom and worked up to director level I don't see how I could really contribute in a significant way. If I were you I'd hunt out junior positions in parallel companies, suppliers of suppliers etc and try to build from there.

Rome wasn't built in a day... but it was built.

Boy are they in a for a shock.

If you are serious about a career connected with or within Motorsport, you will need to keep all your enthusiasm but lose the sense of entitlement you think a degree owes you.  You will need to consider applying for positions that based on your post you probably feel are way beneath you at this minute in time.  As there is no substitute for hard work in the real world, even with the right social and business connections.

The reactions you received from contacting the businesses you mentioned is hardly surprising.  When I graduated from University with an accountancy degree, if I had called Price Waterhouse or any of what were the Big 6 at the time, saying i'd like a position in one of their most desirable offices despite having no practical experience, they'd have forgotten my name before they put the phone down.  Nor could they be blamed for that.  Having subsequently achieved membership of a professional accountancy body and the required lengthy experience for a practising certificate that may still be true.  However, after working for many years and now as a partner in my firm I would have the skills required to be considered for a higher position (should I wish) at a larger firm.  Only consideration mind you, given the competition.

Understandably experience is hard to come by for a graduate as it requires waiting and paying your dues.  Your perfect role will not be given to you on a plate.  Specialise in one of the 4? areas of your qualification suggests and study in your own time to further your knowledge, while ringing every small company connected with motorsport, whether it's related to tyres, shocks, catering, whatever, even the companies that provide the grid girls for the national events, employment connected to motorsport will be a plus point on your CV.   At least you will become involved in the field.  Attend the Autosport trade events etc assuming they still exist, make connections.  All will give you chances, to hear of opportunities that may arise. 

But there is no short cut... choose a trade, become as efficient and motivated in that employment as you can and create some opportunities for experience that would be desirable in a motorpsorts field.  Apply for work where it arises in the classifieds, but ensure you don't jump from pillar to post without leaving a good reference for the future. 

Boy are they in a for a shock.

The courses they offer these days are nuts, plus Universities give a graduate an increasingly false view of the real world opportunites and salaries available on leaving.  I lived with a couple of lads on a Fine Art degree course when I was at Uni.  The running joke being what do you say to a Fine Arts graduate when he's at work...

"yes, I would like fries with that!"

Don't bother with the motorsport industry, it's an incestuous cult, and that's part of the reason motorsports have not grown as fast as other traditional sports.

Enjoy being an outside commentator (fan/media) or go work for a private equity company with a history of motorsports ownership.

Don't bother with the motorsport industry, it's an incestuous cult

Pretty sure I heard someone shout that at a football referee at the weekend... very similar if not perhaps the exact wording!

@OP

There are jobs, but mostly engineering related. I kicked myself for not having take up science stream...

There's a lot of good advice in the thread though. If i were you, i would look up car manufacturers who are actively engaged in motorsport and see if they have any openings. It may take you months and years to move in that direction but you could get there, if you're hard working, patient and importantly, lucky enough.
 

I worked with auto industry somewhat in India... but even that was a difficult gig to get at and would have never got it if not for a friend. That friend used to sell cars in a showroom, he is now working for a manufacturer now and has a fancy title (for something training and development related). That journey took him about 5-7 odd years... of course good luck always helps and he was lucky (and no i'm not being disrespectful at all) alright

cheers!

if you want to know more, i'd be happy to share my experience over a pm from the job market i was a part of...

I was speaking to somebody the other day who was obviously getting close to leaving university, and he said that with his skills and qualifications, there were only two sectors where he could find an appropriate job. Formula One or the space industry.

Actually i know some Phd students who are only fit for those jobs... i asked a couple to apply for jobs with ESA and Airbus industries and even with F1 teams... most of them though are taking positions in the colleges they graduated from. One i think had gotten a better offer... but that is what it is. Though aeronautical engineering degree could help with a job in F1...

Edited by garagetinkerer, 20 March 2014 - 17:58.

Boy are they in a for a shock.

Seems odd that you want a career in F1, yet studied a relatively unrelated subject at University.

There's more than just engineers in F1 you know.

My advice, such as it is, would be to just find a relevant job in any industry going, don't just focus on motorsport. What you need more than anything is some experience. As you say though it is virtually impossible in some fields to even polish the bottom rung straight out of University, but once you have a few years of work on your CV it will start to get a little easier to progress up the ladder. Once you do have something to offer, it would be time to start nudging closer to the motorsport world, and with enough luck (and it does require far more luck than anyone from your university would of told you) you might be able to get a position there. If you ever get there, then you may start meeting F1 people and finding an opening.

One thing I would definitely advise is don't focus yourself on F1. If you're lucky enough to find a stable job, take a serious look at whether or not it's really worth giving that up to follow a dream. Call that unambitious or a downer if you like, but that's the reality.

Working for suppliers is indeed a good way to make first contacts within F1 world.

http://www.formula1-..._suppliers.html

How the world will view you:

1) Change your attitude.

You are a graduate. A fresh out of education know-it-all-know-nothing. You have no experience. You mentioned a 'prestigious university' as though that was a selling point. It isn't. Don't buy your way into things with superficial tickets or ridiculous flashy facts, which I find ironic, as you are meant to be a PR/Marketing whizz.

It's a recession. You should be fortunate to be given ANY job, let alone thinking you will get one in your related degree. Straight into F1 or related work? DREAM ON! You have to start right at the bottom, with SOMETHING. Something small, learn, move up, move across, go back, move up. Maybe in 5-10 years you have what it takes to be where you WANT.

2) Accept that your degree is... not as important as you think.

Sorry to say it, but you have a degree in something a bit worthless in relation to the endless supply of others who have it. It's a pretty 'vague' degree. Covers a lot of bases, jack of all, master of none kinda thing. Not to sink your ship, but there are literally MILLIONS of degree graduates with the piece of paper you have or similar sounding. They end up far and wide between accountants, working in a bank, telesales and maths teachers. A PhD in medicine? Now we're talking. Straight forward degree, straight into a specific job. Not a mickey mouse course that fits all sorts.

You might want to 'insert middle finger here' at those engineering jobs, but those guys went and did a far more specific course and as a result are filling the very specific job posts. How can you be angry at that, when you chose what you did?

Sorry if my post and view is harsh, but your attitude is totally wrong and I think you need to take a breather, come back down to earth and realise getting your dream job doesn't come on a plate. Life is a long and slow game.

You will get there in the end, if you want it, but start at square one. Not 41.

Good luck!

Edited by danmills, 20 March 2014 - 18:29.

the best way is to start young and look for internships in motorsport, no you won't get an internship at Ferrari at 18 as a college freshman but way way lower down

Small "worlds" like motorsport work on personal connections, the sooner you begin cultivating them the better.

Now since you 're not 18 the alternative is the indirect approach. Look at companies that have ties with motorsport, work yourself into their motorsport programs (even on a volunteer basis, a friend for example way back when worked for elf and trolled the tracks on weekends unpaid doing elf promo) and make your connections that way.

How the world will view you:

1) Change your attitude.

You are a graduate. A fresh out of education know-it-all-know-nothing. You have no experience. You mentioned a 'prestigious university' as though that was a selling point. It isn't. Don't buy your way into things with superficial tickets or ridiculous flashy facts, which I find ironic, as you are meant to be a PR/Marketing whizz.

It's a recession. You should be fortunate to be given ANY job, let alone thinking you will get one in your related degree. Straight into F1 or related work? DREAM ON! You have to start right at the bottom, with SOMETHING. Something small, learn, move up, move across, go back, move up. Maybe in 5-10 years you have what it takes to be where you WANT.

 

2) Accept that your degree is... not as important as you think.

Sorry to say it, but you have a degree in something a bit worthless in relation to the endless supply of others who have it. It's a pretty 'vague' degree. Covers a lot of bases, jack of all, master of none kinda thing. Not to sink your ship, but there are literally MILLIONS of degree graduates with the piece of paper you have or similar sounding. They end up far and wide between accountants, working in a bank, telesales and maths teachers. A PhD in medicine? Now we're talking. Straight forward degree, straight into a specific job. Not a mickey mouse course that fits all sorts.

 

You might want to 'insert middle finger here' at those engineering jobs, but those guys went and did a far more specific course and as a result are filling the very specific job posts. How can you be angry at that, when you chose what you did?

Sorry if my post and view is harsh, but your attitude is totally wrong and I think you need to take a breather, come back down to earth and realise getting your dream job doesn't come on a plate. Life is a long and slow game.

You will get there in the end, if you want it, but start at square one. Not 41.

 

Good luck!

First, you're taking my post waaay too seriously. I'm not angry at anybody, it was an attempt at humor. I'm not raising middle fingers to anyone and I certainly don't have the know-it-all attitude. In fact, not sure how anybody in a graduate position is entitled to such ideas. Trust me, I am well aware degrees mean squat these days - without experience, you're doomed. And I never implied my university is high above others or any of that sort. I worked before from bottom to top in the hospitality industry, from waiter to receptionist to marketing assistant. So I am certainly not diminishing the jobs engineers have, in fact I have massive respect for them, including the mechanics. 

I don't need a lecture on attitude, since my post doesn't reflect the attitude I have towards my future career. It was simply a humorous OP (or so I considered) and you took it like I am looking down on the rest of humanity like I'm on top of Olympus. 

the best way is to start young and look for internships in motorsport, no you won't get an internship at Ferrari at 18 as a college freshman but way way lower down

 

Small "worlds" like motorsport work on personal connections, the sooner you begin cultivating them the better.

 

Now since you 're not 18 the alternative is the indirect approach. Look at companies that have ties with motorsport, work yourself into their motorsport programs (even on a volunteer basis, a friend for example way back when worked for elf and trolled the tracks on weekends unpaid doing elf promo) and make your connections that way.

Very insightful. Thank you. 

I, for one, applaud your determination.

Why not try knocking on doors in the world of Advertising or Public Relations?

Learn the ropes, hit when the opportunity arises while heeding the good advice Damp Mongoose offers up there as well.

Here are some tips on honing your professional personality

http://www.goodreads...8-laws-of-power

PS: when you get around to it...I need 4 VIP passes to Austin with bus parking.

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 20 March 2014 - 18:51.

F1 is a sport governed by Engineering, unsuprisingly it needs a good supply of quality Engineers. All other people within the team except the drivers are secondary.

Edited by JRizzle86, 20 March 2014 - 18:45.

One bit of advice I can offer you is to follow up any opportunity 100%. My only regret since graduating was that threw away a chance at getting into the Prema F3 team in a junior race engineering role. I answered an ad on a university noticeboard, and after a couple of emails the trail seemed to run cold. Months later I heard back and was then offered an interview, but they rapidly cancelled their interviews and apparently gave the job right away to someone who had apparently shown more interest. I should have regularly pestered the guy during those months to show that I really was interested. It was stupid of me. Don't make the same mistake.

Go and study how to work a CNC machine, you will be earning 15 pounds per hour before you know it.

or learn about composites, same sort of money.

Anything else, be prepared to get treated like a second class citizen by everyone, do all the work and get paid a salary for doing 60 hour weeks with no overtime.

Go contract if you can, it pays better.

or better still work in real engineering, renewables, energy, they are the growth areas.

I'm certainly not one to discourage people from following their dream, but when it's a very specific dream it gets a bit unrealistic. You've got a very generic degree that can give you jobs in lots of different industries, don't limit yourself to a very narrow band of possible jobs in pursuit of F1 when something great and totally unrelated could show up. Besides, taking a punt on an unrelated industry will give you basic experience anyway and give you a CV edge over other unexperienced recently graduated candidates, if a job in the F1 ladder does show up a bit latter. You can always apply for them.

Reading biographies and articles etc I've found it striking how so many of the greatest guys working for teams in F1 never intended to end up there. It's nice to have goals but great things often happen by accident. Who knows if you won't become a very happy and great director of a financial department somewhere in something that has no resemblance to F1. Or a chance might pop up in F1 in 10 years time by sheer randomness. Meanwhile you've not sat on your arse waiting for a chance, or worked stressful underpaid jobs for 10 years trying to force your way into F1.

Interesting topic for me, because I´ve started to study accounting/tax last year and as a big F1 fan, ofc dreaming about some financial/accounting position in F1 world...but it is what it is, there are very few possibilities for that and in this world there are the best managers from the best...and you need also a big luck.

Firstly, I apologise if I previously fell into the same category as others and suggested that your original post had some conceit or arrogance regarding your qualification and the institution you obtained it from. 

As others have mentioned, regardless of the direction you take, if you find a stable employment or self-employment, be thankful in the current economic climate and choose wisely when chasing your dream job.  Personally, I have loved motorsport since a very early age and my first live event aged 5.  However, I have also been fortunate to have some sporting ability and would have been in a position to follow my other passion and obtain a golf scholarship in the US.  However, despite that being a very fortunate possibility, having debated with myself I decided to opt for a safer choice.  I do not wonder what might have been as I am happy in the knowledge that I would not have married my wife, or led the life I have.  I also am lucky in that I act on behalf of various local people involved with classic motorsport, given my home town. 

Not guidance just don't throw away a good thing chasing your chance to be an astronaut!

I worked before from bottom to top in the hospitality industry, from waiter to receptionist to marketing assistant.

F1 is a sport governed by Engineering, unsuprisingly it needs a good supply of quality Engineers. All other people within the team except the drivers are secondary.

Governed by engineers but it lives off money. Go for it.

Jobs are hard to get these days. I know highly educated people who can barely get a job flipping burgers at McDonalds. Just hang in there.

Edited by ollebompa, 20 March 2014 - 20:30.

This website have some good info and the author can send you a reply if you make a comment:

http://jobinf1.com/

He is an F1 engineer himself so the website is mainly focused on the engineering side of F1. However the mechanisms to get a job in F1 is similar so it's still useful. It also matches with many of the posts in this topic.

Good luck!

Hmmm...

Made me think back to how I got a job in racing. It was the friend of friend deal really, but after that it was incestuous. 

Been out of it for years now, but I did eventually get on the NHRA circuit, which is pretty big here in the US.

My niece got an offer recently from Red Bull Europe on the promotional side, but she graduated with a degree much like yours and went work with a large promotional company in LA. She worked on everything from the Coachella Fest for Red Bull to rolling out new Nike shoes. She proved her agility from planning the events to cracking the whip on the onsite temps, in the last couple of years she,s had offers from everyone from Snoop Dog (!) to Microsoft. Turns out that going on five years now out of Uni, she loves what does, gets paid decent w/ great benny's, and travels a ton. You may want to be in F1, and more power to you, but you may find an ancillary field and end up liking that better.

Good Luck!

Edited by whitewaterMkII, 20 March 2014 - 22:50.

I wanted to be an F1 engineer throughout my childhood. I got my engineering degree, then my Masters (in aeronautics - relevant to F1) but then I realised talking to the folks I knew in the teams...that it just wasn't for me. I didn't want to be working eleventy-billion hours for mediocre pay and not a huge amount of job security.

So, I got in to the automotive industry. Fittingly, I'm now a Senior Powertrain Cooling engineer for a big OEM and love the job. I don't have any plans to move to F1. For one thing, it'd be a sizeable pay decrease...

...and I'd probably have to move to the midlands :/ Though I do have a lot of respect for those that can stick out that sort of role. I am working 50+ hours at the moment on a big car launch and I'd hate for that to me my year-round work load and pressure level. 

I think that's the other thing that can't be overlooked. Working in motorsport can very much become like a normal job. Boredom, office politics, everything. And you run the risk of not only getting 'used' to racing, but actually not being as fascinated by it anymore. You see how the sausage is made.

I think that's the other thing that can't be overlooked. Working in motorsport can very much become like a normal job. Boredom, office politics, everything. And you run the risk of not only getting 'used' to racing, but actually not being as fascinated by it anymore. You see how the sausage is made.

Edited by wepmob2000, 21 March 2014 - 00:33.

Oh,btw, you live on road, you eat on road. A hotel room is a hotel room, and by the time you get there, who cares. After 10-20 hours you want a shower and to crash,if you get heads when you flip, you rock, because it's likely a double. Continental breakfasts, are continental breakfast. Especially at 0:dark thirty.

Track food is about level with carnival food, the snow crab claws and prosciutto is for the big wheels, not you.

Yep, being on circuit is a barrel of laughs, the behind the ropes of who is doing who, or should not be  is bonus...

There may be opportunities out there, but you have to be incredibly talented  and be there at the right time like Monisha Kaltenborn... She's a lawyer by career but somehow is the Team Principal for Sauber.

aaand here's another lawyer in F1... http://en.wikipedia...._di_Montezemolo

Faack, I should have studied law instead!

My 2c worth.

As others have said, get a job related to your qualifications, and get experience. On the weekends join a car club (preferably a road racing club) then go to club level events, look for a driver in one of the junior categories that shows talent and get reasonable results on a shoestring budget. Offer to help them for free! Most racers have no idea about finance or how to approach sponsors, they either have a rich dad, or scrape together every cent they can, this is the guy you want to help. If you can help him keep his head above water and keep racing, and maybe find him a sponsor or two, you will progress with him/her. It gets you real grass roots experience (School of hard knocks is a nice addition to a degree) and if you pick the right people to help is unbelievable gratifying

This experience will make you more employable, but also make you realise that any job in a big company be it F1 or anywhere else, you are basically a cookie cutter employee, and you may find that your weekend hobby is much more rewarding.

Not sure if this is the appropriate section, but...

 

I've just graduated from a prestigious university in Italy, completing a Finance, Economics and Management program, focusing mainly on Marketing/PR. Of course like any F1 nut or motorsport enthusiast without an engineering degree, I have dreamt about working in motorsport, and especially in Formula 1. But there are not so many opportunities out there for non-engineers. 

 

Because there is a lot more need for engineers than marketers in motorsport. If you wanted a job in F1, you should have chosen engineering and become Newey Jnr.