Is it time pastor left the sport?

Pasture Maldonado.

Very clever 

We have to ban Grosjean again,is the only way.

I actually like Pastor.

Last year he outperformed Bottas in race trim. In 2 car finishes Pastor led Bottas 8-5. Pastor also showed bottle and poise during Spain 2012. This year has been a rough old year so far, but in terms of pure talent there is a lot worse on the grid.

Dangerous? Well yes, he is at times. Even the most ardent defender could not defend how reckless he has been on occasions. I think there is hope he could learn though, I mean Romain has calmed down a lot in the last year or so. Some were calling for his dismissal after Monaco last year.

D.C actually said last weekend that Pastor is considered by most to be a nice enough guy, so him being described as a "thug" might be a bit strong. I hope now Lotus seem to be improving, that Pastor can put in a strong race weekend. In the here and now though,  there in not much positive going on around Pastor.

Edited by sennafan24, 13 May 2014 - 22:30.

And Montoya could have won it had it not spun off in Indy.

So yeah, JPM and Pastor is a hilarious thing.

I actually like Pastor.

 

Last year he outperformed Bottas in race trim. In 2 car finishes Pastor led Bottas 8-5. Pastor also showed bottle and poise during Spain 2012. This year has been a rough old year so far, but in terms of pure talent there is a lot worse on the grid.

 

Dangerous? Well yes, he is at times. Even the most ardent defender could not defend how reckless he has been on occasions. I think there is hope he could learn though, I mean Romain has calmed down a lot in the last year or so. Some were calling for his dismissal after Monaco last year.

 

D.C actually said last weekend that Pastor is considered by most to be a nice enough guy, so him being described as a "thug" might be a bit strong. I hope now Lotus seem to be improving, that Pastor can put in a strong race weekend. In the here and now though,  there in not much positive going on around Pastor.

Silly? Yes! Hold your head silly? Yes! Dangerous? Not by intent. We have had a driver in past who would just dive... and if you gave room, well you both survived. If you didn't then you both didn't! Senna was quite bad like that. I mean he routinely bumped into cars he was lapping. That's dangerous. Of the current lot, Hamilton's a bit bad with the diving too. Mind, nothing comes close to Senna, but this is one aspect of his driving i wish he changes. 2011 was mostly Massa letting him hang to dry, after Hamilton made some remark after one such move. Something to the effect of, "i would never let anyone overtake me on the outside like that." What's fair is fair, and i have to say that i was quite disappointed to see Vettel do this at Spain.

As someone said before... he needs someone to have heart-to-heart with him. Erm, in the most open, using the choicest adjectives etc. In the long run, it will help Maldonado potentially grow as a driver.

note: i realise other drivers do it too... it is not a case of selective memory on my part though. Feel free to take a dump on all such offenders, whoever that may be.

Edited by garagetinkerer, 14 May 2014 - 04:23.

Not whilst he has heaps of cash to buy a seat and not whilst there is a team willing to take his cash

Pasture Maldonado.

Ka-moo-i Kobayashi... I remember that Sniff Petrol hashtag

No poll so presumably just another thread for the anti-Crashtor circlejerkers to high five each other in.

 

I hope he stays for 20 seasons just to piss you all off.

Lol. He's going to definitely end up killing someone if he's allowed for that long

No.

 

Car is starting to look pretty decent .... expect some good performances from him now as he has a lot of raw talent.

Felipe Massa had a lot of "raw talent"

Come on, guys... these days, most of the drivers are corporate robots.  At least Pastor is one "character" so many of you are always pining for, providing a little (by now predictable) unpredictability, an extra DNF or two by taking out another driver, and some jolly good entertainment.  Admit it, you love to hate him, and if he's gone, you'd kinda miss that!   Pro wrestling wouldn't work without heels, and Pastor is the heel of Formula 1 - and a great one, at that.

Montoya was a Character. Maldonado refuses to even accept he's done anything wrong... ever

He bring so much money that the amount of accidents he has are non issues. I'm not a fan of the dude but I'll present you with these scenarios:

 

1- Pastor stays in F1 and saves Lotus from collapse. We get to see Grosjean race and people at Enstone keep their jobs

2- Pastor is out, Lotus is gone, Romain goes to a crappy team if lucky. Enstone closes doors

 

That money really does help F1

This is the best argument for Maldonado, in this thread, at the moment

Lol at comparing Pastor to Montoya.

I know, right? Even though I just did the same above 

Silly? Yes! Hold your head silly? Yes! Dangerous? Not by intent.

I would argue that with him trying to intentionally drive Hamilton off the road in a practice session (or was it Qualifying, I forget). I know it's an older incident, but if he has that tendency... 

Going with the rest of your post, though... Senna arguably did a similar and more notorious thing (as did Schumacher), but, I dunno... a lot more was on the line? They were proven winners? I'm out of ideas... you get my point, though.

Maldonado's win was no fluke though.

Pastor, he's a bloody quick guy. But he needs Romain's psycologist, and some peripheral vision training.

Pastor, he's a bloody quick guy. But he needs Romain's psycologist, and some peripheral vision training.

Psychological, yes. Physical? No. Take his spin in qualifying in Spain. First he goes too wide, almost loses it... drives on full berth. Then he loses controll, does not steer into the spin (as any gamer would), but tries to correct... and meanwhile he is trying to press the clutch to keep the engine going.

That is a mindset, it is. 

Psychological, yes. Physical? No. Take his spin in qualifying in Spain. First he goes too wide, almost loses it... drives on full berth. Then he loses controll, does not steer into the spin (as any gamer would), but tries to correct... and meanwhile he is trying to press the clutch to keep the engine going.

 

That is a mindset, it is. 

It's like he loses his focus quickly. In China he kept tinkering with the dials on the steering and lost control.. He gets distracted. That needs some mind training.

I reckon he will do well in Monaco. He eats this track for breakfast, and he will be hungry. Expect a good race.

Edited by Collective, 14 May 2014 - 15:58.

I reckon he will do well in Monaco. He eats this track for breakfast, and he will be hungry. Expect a good race.

I reckon he will do well in Monaco. He eats this track for breakfast, and he will be hungry. Expect a good race.

Edited by coppilcus, 14 May 2014 - 16:10.

Psychological, yes. Physical? No. Take his spin in qualifying in Spain. First he goes too wide, almost loses it... drives on full berth. Then he loses controll, does not steer into the spin (as any gamer would), but tries to correct... and meanwhile he is trying to press the clutch to keep the engine going.

 

That is a mindset, it is. 

A couple of years ago he was putting in some good quali laps -  it was basically crash of bash! 

I love his mindset...

He had the fastest time today thought.

He had the fastest time today thought.

And Chilton was the fastest yesterday...

he has actually WON a race don't forget.

shortly after Frank Williams' 70th birthday ……..

oh, and that McLaren qualifying infringement that bumped the Williams onto pole position

quite the coincidence huh?

Edited by F1 Mike, 14 May 2014 - 19:29.

shortly after Frank Williams' 70th birthday ……..

 

oh, and that McLaren qualifying infringement that bumped the Williams onto pole position

 

quite the coincidence huh?

And the moon landings were fake too...

As much as some might wish it to be a rigged race, you just can't fake the focus needed to hold Alonso back

If Maldo left F1, I'd be afraid of what hazard he would become on PUBLIC ROADS.

As much as some might wish it to be a rigged race, you just can't fake the focus needed to hold Alonso back

Yes, Alonso is the one driver on the grid we *know* couldn't be involved in a rigged race! ;-)

Yes, Alonso is the one driver on the grid we *know* couldn't be involved in a rigged race! ;-)

Maldonado has talent, but he does need to shape up.  His progress has been and remains too slow.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Maldonado in top 5 in qualifying in Monaco. He is one of the best there. Actually, judging from the latest form, I expect both Lotus cars in top 6.

Looking forward to Monaco, time to reminisce

 

• Butchering classic circuits to suit their own rules when many smaller series use the same tracks
• Demanding millions of dollars for the prestige of having an F1 race and leaving the second dollars dry up, regardless of contracts or laws
• Promoting itself as the pinnacle of racing on the planet while producing some of the most boring racing on the planet, year after year
• Giving Ferrari prize money every year, just for being Ferrari, whilst at the same time trying to screw small teams that actually need the cash
• Harsher treatment of less-popular teams and drivers if they screw up compared to popular teams and drivers
• Openly stating penalties are more brutal if you screw up a popular driver's race than a backmarker's (FIA statement after the Grosjean Massacre at Spa)
• Lazily pandering to bullshit "green" initiatives when no matter what way you spin it, racing is never going to be about that at all
• Endless ****ery with the kinds of tyres they want, seemingly changing their mind every couple of months
• Cringeworthy podium interviews getting exponentially worse by the race
• Baffling stewarding decisions, inconsistent penalties, "Driver 99 looked at Driver 66, the incident is under investigation"
• Showing 15 replays of the start when nothing happened less than 10 seconds after DRS activation every single race
• Cutting away from on-track action 50 times a race to show a driver's girlfriend in the paddock (hey FOM, we've all got enough fap material by now, let's see some racing, eh?)
• Inventing DRS to pull a carpet over a hole in the floor by ignoring the invisible hurricane behind every car making it nearly impossible to pass
• Implenting DRS in the most bullshit way possible by having special zones for it instead of just copying IndyCar's fair and excellent (by comparison) Push-2-Pass system
• Writing the regulations in such a way that what should be some of the most stunning automotive creations mankind has ever come up with are instead just big carbon fiber penises with blender motors on the back
• Removing "lifetime" bans on cheaters who put their own greed in front of other people's safety
• Starting races under the safety car if it rained anywhere within 50 miles in the previous 2 months (changing car regs to deal with this problem is apparently beyond the engineering geniuses in F1)
• Rotating crew of guys who raced 20 years ago and possibly never even in F1 at all partly in charge of stewarding decisions by advising
• Robbing Kobayashi of his last-lap pass in China by some silly chequered flag rule, but it's a small team so who gives a **** about them, right?
• 65 years of waiting for people to die before changing rules that obviously needed to be changed
• Pretending to encourage wheel-to-wheel action while adding arbitrary points to a driver's license every time he farts too close to another driver
• Acting like a credible sport while routinely allowing criminals to finance teams, buy races, and exert their influence
• Routinely trying to screw over teams who do too good a job at winning races by introducing bullshit rule changes halfway through the season
• Completely failing to embrace the internet and refusing to provide basic web features other series have had for a decade or more
• Gouging fans for apps everyone else just gives away for free
• Charging 3 mortgage payments to attend a GP
• Requiring drivers to starve themselves to squeak under some arbitrary weight limit

But it's Pastor Maldonado embarrassing the sport.

 

Besides all those valid points there is nothing wrong with F1!

And yes Maldonado is fast pratt! 

Silly? Yes! Hold your head silly? Yes! Dangerous? Not by intent. We have had a driver in past who would just dive... and if you gave room, well you both survived. If you didn't then you both didn't! Senna was quite bad like that. I mean he routinely bumped into cars he was lapping. That's dangerous. Of the current lot, Hamilton's a bit bad with the diving too. Mind, nothing comes close to Senna, but this is one aspect of his driving i wish he changes. 2011 was mostly Massa letting him hang to dry, after Hamilton made some remark after one such move. Something to the effect of, "i would never let anyone overtake me on the outside like that." What's fair is fair, and i have to say that i was quite disappointed to see Vettel do this at Spain.

 

As someone said before... he needs someone to have heart-to-heart with him. Erm, in the most open, using the choicest adjectives etc. In the long run, it will help Maldonado potentially grow as a driver.

 

note: i realise other drivers do it too... it is not a case of selective memory on my part though. Feel free to take a dump on all such offenders, whoever that may be.

Certain German who did a fair bit of that too. Mr Hill and quite a few others would agree!

1 podium in 63 races, AND it being the top step suggests that your definition of fluke is different to mine!

Perhaps, but it wasn't like a Nurburgring '99 or Monaco '82 kind of win. Maldonado won because he was the fastest man on the day, basically.

I suppose by 'fluke' you mean 'one-off', but as I said before, Maldonado turned in a string of performances in 2012 that suggested that wasn't the case.

I reckon he will do well in Monaco. He eats this track for breakfast, and he will be hungry. Expect a good race.

If a triple DNF is 'eating the track for breakfast' then Andrea De Cesaris must have ingested several Formula 1 World Championships

Perhaps, but it wasn't like a Nurburgring '99 or Monaco '82 kind of win. Maldonado won because he was the fastest man on the day, basically.

His crashing is bad, but its not significantly worse than we've seen from Vettel or Hamilton throughout the years.

If I was a team boss I'd prefer to have Maldonado over someone like Gutierez or Sutil. Atleast Pastor is fast. Occasional strong performance that net points is better than reliably finishing 14th.

Edited by Thomas99, 16 May 2014 - 03:14.

shortly after Frank Williams' 70th birthday ……..

 

oh, and that McLaren qualifying infringement that bumped the Williams onto pole position

 

quite the coincidence huh?

Well, after an incident at Montreal... the rules were clarified to specify penalty. I believe RBR were also penalised for a similar offense. Coincidence? Or, FIA was for once was just doing what they're supposed to. Take it easy mate.

Certain German who did a fair bit of that too. Mr Hill and quite a few others would agree!

That certain German gets enough **** for what he did, and then some for what he didn't for that matter.

Senna on the other hand, could very well be sainted.

His crashing is bad, but its not significantly worse than we've seen from Vettel or Hamilton throughout the years.

 

If I was a team boss I'd prefer to have Maldonado over someone like Gutierez or Sutil. Atleast Pastor is fast. Occasional strong performance that net points is better than reliably finishing 14th.

Especially if you understand situations where one tends to overdrive, that is when you're running shitboxes, which Pastor has been for most of his time in F1. I mean even after doing as well as he did against Bottas, he gets slated... sometimes having the right PR reps can mean everything!

Thing is he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. There have been plenty of wild but quick drivers in F1 in the past who turned out fine because  they worked on their weaknesses and learned from their mistakes. Grosjean is a quite solid driver today but it took a race ban for him to wake clean up his act. Massa was laughed at alot in his early days and turned out just fine and is a very safe pair of hand today. Sato was a very decent driver in his later seasons to name a few. Maldonado is a very experienced race car driver by now but he's still involved in way to many reckless incidents one wouldn't expect from a GP2 champion and F1-race winner.

shortly after Frank Williams' 70th birthday ……..

 

oh, and that McLaren qualifying infringement that bumped the Williams onto pole position

 

quite the coincidence huh?

Shhh ..... dont mention these "coincidences".

If Maldo left F1, I'd be afraid of what hazard he would become on PUBLIC ROADS.

You mean like this...

His crashing is bad, but its not significantly worse than we've seen from Vettel or Hamilton throughout the years.

 

If I was a team boss I'd prefer to have Maldonado over someone like Gutierez or Sutil. Atleast Pastor is fast. Occasional strong performance that net points is better than reliably finishing 14th.

The real question is if the bonus money the team would get from the points outweighs the cost of all the carbon fibre he litters over a race track.

In regards to the topic; I don't think he should leave the sport unless he ends up accumulating 12 penalty points this year, for me, that would be the straw that breaks the camels back.

great post from Andrew Hope. there are so many things that the ones who decide keep getting wrong. the difficulties for new teams, the money, the rules, the tires, the weight of the drivers.

but also, if F1 was better run a driver like Maldonado wouldn't be hired by any team. he makes too many mistakes and he keeps doing them.

That certain German gets enough **** for what he did, and then some for what he didn't for that matter.

 

Senna on the other hand, could very well be sainted.

Correct.

I think it is a sign of civilisation that we are discussing Maldo's actions. It shows that actions like pushing someone in the wall is considered bad driving, not 'tough racing'.

To be fair about Senna: he DID change his tune after, oh, 1992. At least his actions towards other drivers showed he had grasped the concept of 'mortality'.

A concept, I daresay, that is not really embeded in Maldo's mind. 

His crashing is bad, but its not significantly worse than we've seen from Vettel or Hamilton throughout the years.

 

Thomas, I think that if you compare crashes of Maldonado with that of Hamilton or Vettel, you will see quite some differences. Pastors crashes often seem to happen... how can I say this? Sometimes Maldo crashes in a way that you think: 'Was he driving another track in his head than the one he was really driving on?'

See the crash at Monaco, posted above, the first one. That is so... weird. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems he tried to overtake someone looked over his shoulder, satisfied, looked ahead and thought: 'Oh. I seem to have missed the corner.'

I should call it: 'Coming from another dimension'-crashing. I can't remember Vettel or Hamilton ever crashing that way. 

It is amazing how some hate Pastor Maldonado so much as to present all kind of blatantly manipulated videos to "prove" their point.

First this:

In the video above Maldonado is driving the YELLOW car not the BLUE one that crashed, but you have countless threads in this and other "motorsport" forums bashing him for that crash.

And now this:

If Maldonado had done what Chilton  did in the video above and caused that massive crash you would have videos and videos, threads and threads, pages and pages  of people calling Maldonado a criminal and asking for him to leave the "sport". But it was a "top class" British driver so not a single video on youtube that I could find, not a single thread on this forum to discuss one of the most dangerous "racing" moves in recent years, let alone ask for race bans or for this "top class" British driver to leave the "sport". What you find is an out of context video in another "pastor" bashing thread that "shows" how dangerous he is. 

LOL'd at this thread... They couldn't get rid of 'Andrea de Crasheris' either.  And that was during a time when car construction and circuits were far less forgiving. 

It is amazing how some hate Pastor Maldonado so much as to present all kind of blatantly manipulated videos to "prove" their point.

 

First this:

 

In the video above Maldonado is driving the YELLOW car not the BLUE one that crashed, but you have countless threads in this and other "motorsport" forums bashing him for that crash.

 

And now this:

 

If Maldonado had done what Chilton  did in the video above and caused that massive crash you would have videos and videos, threads and threads, pages and pages  of people calling Maldonado a criminal and asking for him to leave the "sport". But it was a "top class" British driver so not a single video on youtube that I could find, not a single thread on this forum to discuss one of the most dangerous "racing" moves in recent years, let alone ask for race bans or for this "top class" British driver to leave the "sport". What you find is an out of context video in another "pastor" bashing thread that "shows" how dangerous he is. 

Eh... that first video was posted in another thread. That was wrong, indeed, in two ways. Especially because it was GP2, and the discussion is F1. So even IF it had been Maldo, this would be the wrong place.

The other, second video... what is wrong with posting that? I don't understand.

Before you reply, please be aware that I am trying to defend Maldo's place in F1... 

Eh... that first video was posted in another thread. That was wrong, indeed, in two ways. Especially because it was GP2, and the discussion is F1. So even IF it had been Maldo, this would be the wrong place.

 

The other, second video... what is wrong with posting that? I don't understand.

 

Before you reply, please be aware that I am trying to defend Maldo's place in F1... 

 

That video should be posted in the "Is it time max left the sport" thread with the race footage showing what a dangerous move it was.

Problem is, that thread doesn't exist, that crazy move wasn't even disccused in this forum and the race footage showing what a dangerous move it was is no where to be seen.

What you get instead is an out of context video in another "pastor" bashing thread that supposedly shows what a danger he is.

Sorry if you don't understand, english is not my first language.

The biggest problem with Maldonado is that at least for me he is the only driver that really feels like his car is a weapon is his hand.

He is that psycho.

That video should be posted in the "Is it time max left the sport" thread with the race footage showing what a dangerous move it was.

Problem is, that thread doesn't exist, that crazy move wasn't even disccused in this forum and the race footage showing what a dangerous move it was is no where to be seen.

What you get instead is an out of context video in another "pastor" bashing thread that supposedly shows what a danger he is.

Sorry if you don't understand, english is not my first language.

Maybe I'm missing it too, but that video makes it look like Maldonado has a crash all by himself and then collects a Marussia as he's bouncing off the armco? 

That video should be posted in the "Is it time max left the sport" thread with the race footage showing what a dangerous move it was.

Problem is, that thread doesn't exist, that crazy move wasn't even disccused in this forum and the race footage showing what a dangerous move it was is no where to be seen.

What you get instead is an out of context video in another "pastor" bashing thread that supposedly shows what a danger he is.

Sorry if you don't understand, english is not my first language.

I get you now. Your English is fine. It was an elaborate argument but... a bit too complicated. 

Edited by Nemo1965, 16 May 2014 - 16:44.

Maybe I'm missing it too, but that video makes it look like Maldonado has a crash all by himself and then collects a Marussia as he's bouncing off the armco? 

That crash started when Chilton clipped Maldonado on the entry to Tabac, though it seems more like a slight misjudgement to me from a driver who has proven himself to be a safe pair of hands, having yet to DNF in his F1 career.

I can't find a video of the Spa Qualy incident with Hamilton in 2011, but that was a particularly bad one too.

I'm not going to blame Pastor for every crash he's been involved in. For example I don't think Lewis should have been sticking his nose in at Ste. Devote in 2011, but he doesn't seem to have learned that you can't just barge your way though the inside of a corner. If he'd put it all behind him I wouldn't give it much thought, but there's no evidence he has.

he has actually WON a race don't forget.

And yet his teammate, who hasn't won a race, is outclassing him in every single way possible and making him look like an amateur.

The second one (with Hamilton in Valencia) and the last one (with the Force India's) was not his fault. Hamilton should have yielded, Maldonado already passed him, and the last one, where can he go? He can't make himself disappear now can he.