Most disappointing constructor as of Austrian GP 2014

'tis a shame.   For instance there should be bright days with routine podiums for McLaren-Mercedes, Lotus-Renault and Ferrari but alas it is not the case.  Meanwhile Red Bull-Renault intend to be contending for titles, yet are some ways off, and far less competitive on high speed circuits than anticipated, barely acheiving a handful of points... when they had been on an upwards trend, but suddenly their performances are under higher scrutiny.

 

Similarly Sauber-Ferrari has been seemingly outclassed by midfield rivals like Force India-Mercedes and Williams-Mercedes, seemingly at their least competitive form in recent memory.   (Thanks Seanspeed)

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 24 June 2014 - 15:21.

Sauber should probably be included.

Mclaren. Despite having Merc engines and a big budget...

I'd love to say Red Bull but their chassis is amazing, their problems are not directly their fault.

 

Ferrari are an obvious choice, but I think they're turning it around

 

So its between McLaren and Lotus. I was expecting Lotus to struggle do, McLaren well, they have the best engine and still suck

 

The funny thing with McLaren is how desperate they are for good news and keep releasing PR stuff saying they're showing progress and stuff, this has been going on for about 3 months now and its now borderline sad.

Edited by charly0418, 24 June 2014 - 15:19.

It's not RBR because the engine has let them down. It's not Ferrari, either; if Raikkonen wasn't having a shocker they'd be positioned as clearly the third best team behind RBR and Mercedes.

That leaves McMerc, Sauber, and Lotus. Well, Sauber and Lotus are sort of in the same boat relative to the Mercedes armada; I'm tempted to say their former midfield rivals are ahead of them because of having a better engine alone. Given the history of Ferrari/RBR with regards to aero proficiency, I'm tempted to say the Renault engine is probably on about the same level as the Ferrari (reliability factored in), so I don't think one is conclusively more disappointing than the other.

So that leaves McLaren. Last of the Merc brigade with the biggest budget. They simply should not be behind Ferrari and RBR given their respective engine 'handicaps', let alone Williams and their technology partner Force India. WTF happened?

Edited by Afterburner, 24 June 2014 - 15:47.

McLaren easily. 

 

They're the 2nd biggest team with Mercedes-powered cars and they're the slowest with those engines. 

Well Button said that they were the second best team behind Mercedes, so it's clearly the drivers' fault 

Caterham because they have a big budget and have produced a hideous car that has made them go backwards, despite decent basic equipment.

 

You cna forgive one or two bad cars, but not this many with good engines.

McLaren IMO.  If Ferrari were being beaten by Sauber or Marussia, or Red Bull by STR or Caterham, you could maybe make a case for them.  McLaren being beaten by FI and Williams is poor for a team of their aspirations.

Hey!  Watch what you say about Williams!

For me it has to be Ferrari and that is because I had a lot of expectations for this year.

Mclaren is not the same since Mercedes left.. so I kind of expected their downfall. 

Edited by discover23, 24 June 2014 - 16:18.

Ferrari is disappointing because: they have the best driver and a big budget and, as only Mercedes, have the advantage of designing the car and the engine together. Missed oportunity.

 

McLaren is disappointing because have the best engine and yet they get no result. Not looking good for 2015.

 

But the most disappointing is Sauber, but with that engine and drivers, the lack of results were expected.

 

Renault-powered  teams must be... disappointed is a soft word... that they have the most expensive power unit. 

I think it's red bull because they have been so focused on marginalizing the kers system on their car.
They focused everything on the blown diffuser and setting the car up for Vettel.
They want to blame Renault, but this formula is an engine based formula not chassis.
They dropped the ball.

4 titles in a row.  1 fallow year.

 

If Christian Horner was offered that in 2009, he'd have taken it.

 

No way they dropped the ball if their approach in 2010-2013 is harming them in 2014.

Talking about this year, so yeah they screwed themselves.

Red Bull could have gone pointless the entire year and I'm still not convinced it's right to call 4 titles in 5 years disappointing. Sauber is pretty much where they are expected to be, Lotus as well, and Ferrari seem to be turning it around slightly. McLaren it is. Merc got it right, Williams got it right, Force India got it right, but McLaren's entire season so far has been like spitting into a strong headwind and having it fly right back into your face.

Are we basing this on the last 4 years or this season?

It's Ferrari for me, from my perspective they've wasted a huge budget on both car and engine. The issue at both teams seems to be similar in that there's some cultural rot in working practices, but I feel McLaren were already going through a transitional phase between technical teams given the pre-season Dennis coup. Ferrari on the other hand were supposedly done with theirs after the early-2012 debacle and the wind tunnel upgrade.

This year - but you brought up the last 4 as a reason for them "dropping the ball".

 

Red Bull are performing better than McLaren, with a worse engine.  This year.  McLaren are the most disappointing IMO.

And red bull are mine.

McLaren. Most of us expected them to bounce back after last year but it seems like they are doing even worse. They have the best engine yet it is Williams and Force India who are impressing (excluding Mercedes of course). Ferrari are poor but they seem like they have a realistic chance to get 3rd in the WCC. 

 

Lotus and Sauber are disappointing but it's not a huge shock considering their finances. 

You never know what you're going to get with McLaren, so while I'm disappointed in their performance this year, I'm far from shocked about it, hence the disappointment is not that big either. 

 

Enstone has always produced top 10 cars, some years top six, so I'm very, very disappointed in them. Some races their deficit to Red Bull actually isn't much more than it was last year, but on the whole they've been awful. Looked to be onto something in China wasn't it, but that was a false dawn.

 

Sauber… same with them, wether you compare with McLaren or Lotus really. Both comparisons work; you don't know what to expect, can be everything really, but then they've also had a knack of doing something really good with the budget they have.

 

For Sauber and Lotus, some of the disappointment is obviously due to an engine lacking in performance.

 

Sauber had a nightmare of a race. Didn't put the wheel on correctly, then radioed the wrong driver to stop. How to ruin both your drivers races. 

Without a doubt Ferrari, if they didn't have Alonso and instead someone more closely paired to Räikkönen they might very well be down at the 6:th place in the WTC standing.

Yes that's right after McLaren who are also underachieving badly and in front of Torro Rosso.

Edited by zottzell, 24 June 2014 - 18:40.

Has to be McLaren, the car is almost as bad as last year's effort.

McLaren. Even their livery is off this year...

 

McLaren is in a transition year. Sauber may be in its last.

It's Ferrari for me, from my perspective they've wasted a huge budget on both car and engine. The issue at both teams seems to be similar in that there's some cultural rot in working practices, but I feel McLaren were already going through a transitional phase between technical teams given the pre-season Dennis coup. Ferrari on the other hand were supposedly done with theirs after the early-2012 debacle and the wind tunnel upgrade.

 

I was going to say McLaren, but you've raised a decent point there. 

My beloved McLaren...oh what on earth is becoming of you?

It's a toss up between Sauber and Williams. To think that Sauber was challenging for the wins just 2 years ago is weird. Williams' strategy incompetence is something that is going on for years, but it's more visible now that they have 2nd best car on the grid.

McLaren and its not even close. Best engine by miles and they are struggling to beat Williams and Force India. Just think how ridiculous that would of sounded back in 2007 or 2008. The drop in form over the last few years is incredible. Something is seriously wrong.

McLaren for me. After a lot of promise(s) before winter testing the car turns out to be even further behind the top 3 than in 2013. I think deep inside we all knew this was only going to be a transitional year until Honda arrives, but who would have thought they'd go even more backwards than the year before?

Edited by GoldenColt, 24 June 2014 - 22:24.

McLaren and its not even close. Best engine by miles and they are struggling to beat Williams and Force India. Just think how ridiculous that would of sounded back in 2007 or 2008. The drop in form over the last few years is incredible. Something is seriously wrong.

 

At least McLaren recognised it and took subsequent action before the season began. They've also made some progress in that their upgrades work and their car is predictable. It's clearly slow but I haven't heard Button mention the balance for a while. Ferrari meanwhile are still bringing parts to the circuit which they do not race.

hmmm, interesting question which I am going to try very hard not to be biased about.
All of those selected are definitely not having the season they hoped they would be having however after the initial disaster of winter testing Red Bull have actually surprised me how competitive they are, The Renault power unit is obviously where there troubles lie and although some of the blame can be laid at Red Bulls door due to them being the works team the majority of it has to be blamed on Viry. Despite this Red Bull are the 2nd best team out there (mostly along with Williams on occasions) so its not Red Bull.

Lotus - again have the woeful Renault unit, Lotus had no input into its design as they are no longer the works team so can be resolved of any blame. Had a troubled winter, lost a lot of staff, missed the first test, had barely any running due to problems with the power unit causing over heating, which burnt through there spare parts, they were stuck in Bahrain without enough time to ship over new parts and ended up testing in the races, which obviously isn't ideal because the first sign of a problem means its game over. Very very difficult situation for Lotus, there have been times that the car doesn't look to bad - the past couple of races haven't been ideal tracks for the Renault engine and things may look better on less power orientated tracks. Just finishing races seems an achievement for them considering there problems. Its a shame they are in this position but not a surprise so its not Lotus.

Sauber - another team struggling for money and unfortunately it is also not a surprise to see them struggling on track. Possibly one of the most underwhelming driver line-ups on the grid, put together with a car that looks tricky too drive and a Ferrari power unit that lacks in all areas to the Mercedes unit and the team is lying where they deserve to I'm afraid so again its not Sauber.

(Now it gets tricky for me)
McLaren - oh wow am I disappointed with McLaren. They have the best power unit, one of the biggest budgets and a team used to fighting at the front recently and yet they find themselves lagging behind all the other Mercedes powered cars. A bad year last year was supposed to set them up for a better 2014 and at the start of testing that indeed looked the case. So what went wrong? - huge structural changes early in the season must have caused disruption, as well as moving to Honda engines next year could easily have made Mercedes offer the bare minimum information on the power unit (which could also have the knock-on effect of being unable to develop their fuel for maximum efficiency) - could Mercedes be giving more info to FI and Williams knowing they will still be supplying them in the future, its very possible, which puts McLaren at a disadvantage even to these teams. Also possible that some of the development work is now focused on next year. I think realistically McLaren were always going to be on the back foot this year (there were enough posters warning about it (and troubles with Merc engines) before the season started, but it was easy to ignore them and nicer to focus on the hope McLaren could get it right.

Ferrari - Definitely disappointing, was one of the teams that made a lot of noise about wanting the new engines (and less emphasis on aero) and yet their effort has fallen a long way short of the Mercedes one. The car also looks a real handful to drive and only the heroics of Alonso have seen them get any meaningful points. Ferrari have a huge budget and they are the only team along with Mercedes that had everything in their own hands - a huge advantage, as Mercedes have shown in comparison to their customer teams, and yet they have produced a disappointing chassis and a disappointing power unit. They have 2 of the best drivers on the grid and both deserve better than what Ferrari have given them. Ferrari are a great team but watching them this year actually leaves me very sad and due to this reason they get my vote.

I sense McLaren have finally turned 'the corner' and are now on the path back. Whereas some other struggling teams have yet to show evidence they've got to their lowest point. Could be wrong .

Biggest step back from last year is probably Lotus. But biggest disappointment has to be McLaren in terms of performance vs budget, specially with new regulations that are supposed to reset things. You can't be behind 2 other privateer teams with the same engine and far worse resources lol.

Mclaren. Despite having Merc engines and a big budget...

 

Yep.  Sauber and Lotus aren't as disappointing/surprising since we know those teams don't have big budgets, and neither of them has the much-vaunted Mercedes engine.

 

I could understand Mclaren being beaten by the works Mercedes team, but being beaten by Force India and Williams?  Something has gone seriously wrong in that team the last few years.

 

Ferrari have been pretty disappointing this year as well, but to be honest it wasn't all that unexpected, especially since they don't have that Merc power unit..  They have been on a slow decline ever since the Schumacher days, and seem to get further and further from winning championships each year.  Alonso continues to flatter the car as he always does, while Raikkonen is probably a more accurate indicator of the car's true pace.  Yet another year of watching probably the best driver on the grid (Alonso) drive around in a car that isn't capable of winning races, let alone championships...

Edited by travbrad, 24 June 2014 - 23:15.

I sense McLaren have finally turned 'the corner' and are now on the path back. Whereas some other struggling teams have yet to show evidence they've got to their lowest point. Could be wrong .

 

They're still quite far from turning it around. Ron himself said it on his last interview that the 1st year with Honda wont be easy

They're still quite far from turning it around. Ron himself said it on his last interview that the 1st year with Honda wont be easy

 

Yeah if you really want an accurate picture of whether Mclaren is improving or not you need to compare them to the other Mercedes-powered teams, since the Mercedes PU/engine dominated the Austrian GP (literally every car with a Mercedes engine scored points).  Mclaren was the lowest scoring of those teams:

 

Mclaren 7

Force India 10

Williams 27

Mercedes 43

Edited by travbrad, 24 June 2014 - 23:46.

McLaren.... With that engine? It should be contending.

I don't think much was really expected from Ferrari and McLaren even through some strong testing results. It is generally understood they are behind Mercedes and Red Bull after the past couple of seasons. Their results are on par with the past few seasons. 

 

Biggest disappointment, to me, is Lotus. I understand trading Kimi for Maldonado is not a step up, but Grosjean is in another year. Funding looks a bit more secure, and they had the previously strong Renault engine. Renault has been a bit of a let down in the powertrain department, and both drivers are a bit underrated, they haven't gotten the results. Nor has the team really given them a car strong enough to get any results though. 

Sauber and Lotus are struggling with funds big time, so they're excused as far as I'm concerned.

The big underperformer is undoubtedly Mclaren. They fell asleep years ago and are now starting to realize their approach is outdated.

Edited by Timstr11, 25 June 2014 - 00:45.

Mercedes.  The race for 3rd's been pretty good, but wouldn't mind seeing one for 1st...

Without a doubt Ferrari, if they didn't have Alonso and instead someone more closely paired to Räikkönen they might very well be down at the 6:th place in the WTC standing.

Ferrari - Definitely disappointing, was one of the teams that made a lot of noise about wanting the new engines (and less emphasis on aero) and yet their effort has fallen a long way short of the Mercedes one. The car also looks a real handful to drive and only the heroics of Alonso have seen them get any meaningful points. Ferrari have a huge budget and they are the only team along with Mercedes that had everything in their own hands - a huge advantage, as Mercedes have shown in comparison to their customer teams, and yet they have produced a disappointing chassis and a disappointing power unit. They have 2 of the best drivers on the grid and both deserve better than what Ferrari have given them. Ferrari are a great team but watching them this year actually leaves me very sad and due to this reason they get my vote.

I keep hearing things like this--'heroics', 'prowess', 'unbelievable exploits'--but they all fall under the same unsubstantiated myth propagated by David Hobbs et al that somehow a driver can actually put a car places it doesn't belong. Newsflash: they can't. A car is subject to the laws of physics, and there is a finite limit to its capabilities which no driver can exceed. If you want to say that Alonso is more consistently near his car's limits than most other drivers, then fine, but I'm really sick of hearing this quite frankly primitive notion that there are a few drivers who can 'outperform their car'. It looks that way, but it's not what's actually happening: in truth, he's underperforming relative to the theoretical maximum, but everyone else is (potentially) underperforming more.

Why is this relevant? Because I think what Alonso has done for Ferrari this year is par for the course. You put any top driver in that car (in terms of performance so far this year that would mean Hamilton or Ricciardo), and guess what? They'll more than likely get the same results. Yes, I just said that. The same results, because it's not like there have been a whole lot of opportunities for Alonso to do significantly worse than he has this year (or better for that matter--there's usually a pretty big gulf between him in the cars in front/behind). Following this line of reasoning, if you had another top driver in Ferrari alongside Alonso (I'm thinking a straight swap with KR and DR), Ferrari would likely be second in the WCC right now. Best of the rest, in other words, and ahead of Red Bull. So yeah, for me, Ferrari is far from being as disappointing as McLaren, which has appeared more or less totally hopeless since Australia.

And before the OMG YOU HATURRR brigade shows up, I've actually warmed to Alonso a lot this year. I think he's clearly in the 'S-tier' of F1's new era, which for me right now is a two-man club he shares with Ricciardo, the only other driver who has made no significant mistakes this year and the only one in the field who's been able to defeat the Mercedes juggernaut. LH would be there too, but he's looked pretty scruffy the last few races. If you feel the uncontrollable need to berate me for this, then take it to the 'tiers' thread.

Lotus or Sauber, both horrible.

McLaren for me. OK, they are in transition in many ways. But the last time McLaren were *that* bad, they had a bad engine. (Not counting the MP4-18 debacle, because that was salvaged by the MP4-17D)

 

I didn't expect my team, Ferrari be better than they are. Judging by previous seasons, the only thing that could have brought them forward is building the best engine. After preseason testing it was clear that only teams with Mercedes engines would be having a great season.

 

The other teams share the same issues with the engines, and some serious money constraints

 

But right now we have McLaren at the bottom of the Mercedes powered teams. The one who is suffering most about that I'd think is the man himself (Ron Dennis). But in any case, right now this is not McLaren we've used to see (and loathe as a Ferrari supporter, if you excuse)

 

That's not to say any of those teams in the doll-drums can't make a turn around like Williams this year. Williams is the most improved team since last year.

Why is this relevant? Because I think what Alonso has done for Ferrari this year is par for the course. You put any top driver in that car (in terms of performance so far this year that would mean Hamilton or Ricciardo), and guess what? They'll more than likely get the same results.

Raikkonen is a top driver "so they say" so where are the results from #7? 

McLaren easily. 

 

They're the 2nd biggest team with Mercedes-powered cars and they're the slowest with those engines. 

 

Well said.

I really cant get my head around these failures. Looks like the team staff are from spec series even if F1 aint one yet.

McLaren and Ferrari struggling is like karmic retribution for their past transgressions.

So while they are both under performing (at least compared to their self entitlement) I can't say that it is disappointing.

I would have voted Williams. They have let an awful lot of potential results slip through their fingers this year.

Why not give more options? Limiting a poll to your own opinion defeats the purpose somewhat.