Is Maldonado the most fluke winner F1 has ever had?

Could be. But was his Spain 2012 really worse than, let's say, Panis' Monaco 1996? At least he was really fighting against Alonso (a win contender who remained in the race from beginning to end). In the case of Panis, everyone (contending for the win) retired.

I wouldn't call it flukey, he drove very well to beat Alonso and he had several other great drives that year, Singapore and Abu Dhabi come to mind especially. However, he's had two particularly bad cars in a row now, so wasn't likely to star regardless, and I think Grosjean is a more naturally talented driver anyway, certainly the Frenchman has shown a greater propensity to  learn from his mistakes, eventually. 

I don't really know, as my history of F1 isn't fantastic, as I only started watching in the late 80's - early 90's. But I do know the start of the 2012 season was nothing more than a lottery decided by Pirelli as nobody had a clue about their tyres. If your team was fortunate enough to luck into a good setup, you were in with a good chance of winning the race. Hence seven different winners in the first seven races. So quite possibly Maldonado may have been the luckiest driver ever. But I'm sure there are many other examples out there, as this thread will now demonstrate.

PS - Just seen the mention of Panis. I knew he would be on the forefront of people's minds. However, Panis had a few decent results in his time, Maldonado on the other hand hasn't.

Edited by MrPodium, 26 August 2014 - 16:20.

Is Williams from 2012 one of the most wasted top cars of all time? I guess a top driver would have scored 100+ points over a season for sure, and who knows how much more...

I consider him an absolute tool most any day BUT that day in Spain he was absolutely on fire. He held of Alonso who would have tortured his own mother to get the home win. The win was deserved, even if his continued race seat is not.

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

Edited by Burtros, 26 August 2014 - 16:21.

I do not think that win was a fluke, he dorve very nicely.

but let's be frank, since then he has been a miserable waste of a seat, who's only real contribution to F1 has been financial.

As for one off winners, there are a few I know who might qualify, Panis at Monaco wasnt that fairly lucky?

I was going to say Brambilla aswel, Alan Jones oin the Shadow?

Did Revson deserve to win his race or was he lucky I dont know?  Some one off winners were fully deserving like Alboreto in the Tyrrell in Vegas, Trulli and Fisichella's wins.

Must be quite a few lucky ones really.

Could be. But was his Spain 2012 really worse than, let's say, Panis' Monaco 1996? At least he was really fighting against Alonso (a win contender who remained in the race from beginning to end). In the case of Panis, everyone (contending for the win) retired.

I think the main issue isn't the win itself, because Maldonado's win was way better than, say, Kovalainen's sole win. But the main issue is contrast to most other Maldonado's performances, which aren't usually even remotely close to the standard of Spain 2012. Hence the "fluke" part.

 

Did Revson deserve to win his race or was he lucky I dont know?  

For a start, he won more than one 

I nominate Giancarlo Baghetti.

For a start, he won more than one 

 

I nominate Giancarlo Baghetti.

That's a good one. He won a race in which he had by far the best car and all his team-mates retired. Really perfect situation for an underperforming driver! Even more incredible it happened in his very first race...

He reminds me of the song "money talks", honestly he has no place in F1 and without the money would,nt make the grade at the local banger race, unskilled, unpleasant and a total cock

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

He wasn't in F1 in 2012.

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

Probably because he wasn't even driving in F1 in 2012    

Herbert's win at Monza 1995 was even more fluky. It was ridiculous, about half the field in front of him retired and he almost got beaten by Hakkinen in an awful McLaren who had to pit on the opening laps.

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

The car was excellent, but Barichello didn't win any races because he was in IndyCar at the time racing for KV.

I've often felt that if you mashed together 2012 spec Senna and Maldonado you would have had one very good driver. Pastor was excellent in qualy but liked to run into everybody whilst Senna couldn't qualify well to save his life (or career) but was usually very good in the races, he just tended to be doing it from 16th/17th stopping him from getting big points.

He wasn't in F1 in 2012.

Darn I always forget the Bruno Senna year!!

Ok, so maybe thats why his team mate didnt win a race. I'll take correction on that one.

Some people will probably say Jean Alesi.

But I disagree, N'ring 1995 says otherwise. In fact, his whole 1995 season was some great driving. Finished no lower than 5th and had several retirements. If only his Ferrari would last back then. He was 14 points behind Michael after the 1995 British GP....

Edited by George Costanza, 26 August 2014 - 16:39.

He has the speed. The problem will be temperament and motivation. 

He more or less beat Bottas last year until the last few races (qualifying and races for the most part). The only thing was that the car was so bad he only had 1 point to show for it until Williams ditched the EBD and suddenly the car was competitive.

Bottas didn't spank him. They were evenly matched for the most part.

How he must be regretting leaving Williams now!

Is Williams from 2012 one of the most wasted top cars of all time? I guess a top driver would have scored 100+ points over a season for sure, and who knows how much more...

In the right hands, maybe Fernando Alonso, it would have been challenging for the world championship.

whats interesting is the team called the stratagy perfectly all weekend for pastor, he had a full set of fresh prime tyres (prefered race tyre) and alonso didnt.

pastor can be a very good driver, but he seems to drift away from that more and more, and i dont know why

Could be. But was his Spain 2012 really worse than, let's say, Panis' Monaco 1996? At least he was really fighting against Alonso (a win contender who remained in the race from beginning to end). In the case of Panis, everyone (contending for the win) retired.

But Panis had some good results in 97 before he injured himself, and he was among the fastest on the wet Monaco circuit, he wouldn't have beaten Alesi or Hill, but a 3rd place would've been well in his range even with 3 times the amount of finishers. Or even 4 times the amount of finishers.

Using race wins as a criteria is pretty poor unless you think that F1 is a spec series.  It's gone more that way in the last 10 years but still far from a spec series.  There's 3 or 4 pretty clear groups in the field with Merc, then RBR/Williams/Ferrar and then McLaren/Force India/Sauber/Lotus etc.  Then the backmarkers.  I don't know how you'd expect someone to win a race unless they are driving for McLaren, Ferrari, Redbull, Merc etc.  And even then, a Ferrari has a pretty slim chance of winning.

His win came at a time when Pirelli lotteries were at their most generous.  It wasn't just his win but the results of that part of the season as a whole.  They weren't really reproducible like the way F1 normally is.

Separate from winning or not, Maldonado hasn't been very impressive.  Even just for his boneheaded mistakes alone.  His attention span and basic driving abilities seem below professional level.. on a pretty regular basis.  It's rare to see drivers in F1 like this.  Most of the time people say amateurish they are being harsh.  For example to say that Nico's move was amateurish, Lewis has done the same thing to Massa and Vettel in the last 4 years.

Where as with Maldonado.. it's pretty hard to defend him.  Other than winning a race.. there's not much else to say.  Sometimes in practices he struggles to make it into the garage without crashing into a barrier for no reason (China this year?).

To return to the original point, you can't judge drivers in F1 by winning races or not.  Grosjean and Bottas haven't won races but have been impressive in the last few years.  Maldonado has won one race, so on one specific day he was the best on track (results wise at least).  But overall.. over the course of a few years.. Bottas/Grosjean > Maldonado.  Maldonado is a poor mans Montoya.

Monaco 2004 was a greater fluke. Basically overtaking was impossible and all possible challengers DNFed. Any Trulli never came close to winning except that day, IIRC.

Maldonado at least won on a day Alonso, Raikkonen, Vettel, Hamilton and Button finished.

Edited by Atreiu, 26 August 2014 - 16:59.

In the right hands, maybe Fernando Alonso, it would have been challenging for the world championship.

No matter, how good Alonso is (and he is), but that's the same like saying "what would've Alonso done with the 2012 Sauber considering what Perez did sometimes (in Malaysia or Monza)".

Certainly, Alonso would've achieved even more than what Perez/Maldonado did in the Sauber/Williams. But fighting for the championship...

That's the same like saying Senna would've driven for the championship in the 1990/1991 Tyrrell (considering what Alesi and Modena sometimes achieved in those cars). OK, Senna would've achieved certainly more than Alesi/Modena but fighting for the championship? Well...

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

Preparing for his first Indy 500.

Edit: I see you've already been corrected. I'd not normally be surprised that someone would forget about Bruno, but that was the race that he got rammed by Schumi, which led to Michael's penalty that kept him from getting pole in Monaco.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 26 August 2014 - 17:04.

Monaco 2004 was a greater fluke. Basically overtaking was impossible and all possible challengers DNFed. Any Trulli never came close to winning except that day, IIRC.

Then again, he took pole with 0.36 second. from 2nd to 7th the time difference was 0.37. It was a good effort. And he wasn't far off 1st place on more occasions either.

Has there been another driver who won a race but never had any other podium finishes?

But I don't think guys who win a race deservedly can be termed fluke winners even if, like Brambilla, they never come close to repeating it.

Compare it to a guy like Kovalainen, who spent two years at McLaren (albeit not all in a competitive car) and yet never looked like winning a race, including all but three laps of the one he actually did win. I think he's a better example of a fluke winner than Maldonado is.

Brambilla might be the closest to a fluke winner of a race that you can get. That other drivers retire and so on, is one thing, you still beat them. However, in that race, they ran 29 of 54 laps. He won because he led at that point. That's more of a fluke for me.

Kovalainen is a good point, but he had two other podiums, and won a full race.

There are at least five obviously more flukey one-time GP winners in the last 20 seasons alone.

There are at least five obviously more flukey one-time GP winners in the last 20 seasons alone.

Come on then. Make your 7000th post a good one. 

Then again, he took pole with 0.36 second. from 2nd to 7th the time difference was 0.37. It was a good effort. And he wasn't far off 1st place on more occasions either.

Edited by Atreiu, 27 August 2014 - 03:29.

Has there been another driver who won a race but never had any other podium finishes?

Yes. Vittorio Brambilla, Pastor Maldonado (can change), Peter Gethin (who won that race at Monza where top 4 was separated by under 0.2 second, and top 5 under 0.8 (or was it 0.7). He only had 2 more point finishes IIRC), Ludovico Scarfiotti (also a Monza only winner), Giancarlo Baghetti (already been mentioned) and Joakim Bonnier from the very rich Bonnier familiy in Sweden - he drove F1 for 15 years, got one win and no other podiums

* Indy 500 drivers are not acocunted for. I have no idea about them

** Non-Champ.races are of course not in my mind either
*** I do think the ones I've mentioned are correct, they might or might not be all.

Edited by Myrvold, 26 August 2014 - 17:18.

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

Edited by Jimisgod, 26 August 2014 - 17:24.

Brambilla might be the closest to a fluke winner of a race that you can get. That other drivers retire and so on, is one thing, you still beat them. However, in that race, they ran 29 of 54 laps. He won because he led at that point. That's more of a fluke for me.

Kovalainen is a good point, but he had two other podiums, and won a full race.

Edited by Spillage, 26 August 2014 - 23:45.

Panis' win itself may of been a fluke, but he was a talented driver who achieved, or should of achieved, two more podiums and other high placed finishes. He may have achieved more, but it's often been said he was never the same driver after his accident.

I see Trulli has been mooted as another suspect, but he was a regular podium contender who might have won more had Renault not been run by Briatore.

* Indy 500 drivers are not acocunted for. I have no idea about them

All Indy winners that decade had other wins and good results. One of its top drivers of that era had the flukiest win I've ever heard of, but it wasn't F1.

other good Indy 500 results (when Indy was F1) or other good results outside F1? I felt the question was about F1 podiums.

That's a good one. He won a race in which he had by far the best car and all his team-mates retired. Really perfect situation for an underperforming driver! Even more incredible it happened in his very first race...

Plus it was on one of the least challenging F1 tracks ever. Pretty much stand on it and go, with the occasional hairpin to get you back to where you were.

Come on then. Make your 7000th post a good one. 

Don't put any pressure on him! Remember what happened to Potmotr!

Btw this is a silly thread. Only Hamilton was faster than Maldonado that day. Pastor's 2010 was also probably the best single GP2 year anyone's ever had (Lewis's 2006 aside). Six feature race wins in a row! Maldonado is inexplicable and probably untreatable, but slow? Give me a break.

Edited by Risil, 26 August 2014 - 18:00.

Heikki? Hungary 2008.

He reminds me of the song "money talks", honestly he has no place in F1 and without the money would,nt make the grade at the local banger race, unskilled, unpleasant and a total cock

10 Formula Renault wins and a title

3 World Series wins and 3rd in the standings

10 GP2 wins and a title

1 F1 win

He's a nutjob, but he's not slow.

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

But Johnny won other GPs....I'm assuming by flukey wins you mean those by a driver who doesn't win another race...a 1-shot wonder, in other words?  

But Panis had some good results in 97 before he injured himself, and he was among the fastest on the wet Monaco circuit, he wouldn't have beaten Alesi or Hill, but a 3rd place would've been well in his range even with 3 times the amount of finishers. Or even 4 times the amount of finishers.

That's right. I remember Panis being the fastest man on track for a big number of laps.
 

Another MAL bashing thread, If you would seriously check the 2012 and 2013 results you would see that he is not too bad, but not on your agenda apparentyl.

This year is a very bad year for him, but the Lotus sucks heavilyand even GRO is apart from BCN doing nothing with it.