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Alonso this race addicted..

Started by ForMules , Mar 16 2008 18:02

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160 replies to this topic

#51 Durant

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:35

Originally posted by airwise
Let's look at the facts.

10 drivers started in front of Fred.

5 of them retired from the race putting him nett 6th

1 was given a stop go penalty dropping him out of contention. Alonso nett 5th.

1 was screwed by safety car, overtook Fred with ease, then made simple error letting Alonso inherit position on last lap. Nett 4th.

Actual finishing position 4th. Nett 4th.

Fastest lap. Lap 58. Seventh fastest.

Verdict :Cruise and collect. Untidy at times.

WTF makes people think this was a great drive? Meanwhile Bordais and Kimi both started behind him and should have finished in front of him with similar levels of reliability.

Half of the drivers who started infront make mistakes. Funny that you mention bourdaris when he profited the most from the SC and went from 13th to 5th because of it. Alonso was screwed both times by the SC because he twice pitted after it which means he lost track position and ended up last both times. I dont think ive ever seen someone as biased as you in my life. Its so extreme that it should be classed as a 'disorder'.

Lets take a look at some other facts concerning Hamiltons race. The two ferraris were out of the picture from the start. His team mate was driving like a good number two, so in reality he was racing a couple of bmws and a williams. Whats so great about beating those cars in the best car?

#52 airwise

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:41

No let's just look at the facts of Alonso's drive. He finished where he should have given retirements and unusual circumstances. FACT. He did not charge through the field picking up positions with gusto. No great drive. Sorry. I only cry with laughter at the esteem in which this Sunday afternoon cruise has been greeted by the fanboys.

#53 Matt Hughes

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:43

Don't really see why Hamilton had to be bought into it other than to get a rise out of one side of F1's most tiresome fanboy battles, but at the end of the day I thought they both drove good races for different reasons.

In Alonso's case, he's the kind of driver who can make things happen for him even if circumstances don't necessarily go his way (he did get a little messed up by the safety car a few times after all). If it were Fisichella in that car you can imagine him having lost his head or getting demotivated, but Alonso kept plugging away in an obviously difficult car and was really pushing it.

I lost pretty much all my respect for the guy after he acted like a 5-year old last season, but the guy's a class act on the circuit. I thought he did very well yesterday and the quicker he and Renault get nearer the front the more us fans will benefit in my opinion.

#54 Durant

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:44

Originally posted by airwise
No let's just look at the facts of Alonso's drive. He finished where he should have given retirements and unusual circumstances. FACT. He did not charge through the field picking up positions with gusto. No great drive. Sorry. I only cry with laughter at the esteem in which this Sunday afternoon cruise has been greeted by the fanboys.

And we all cry with laugher at every single post you make. He finished where he should have given the mistakes the cars infront made and given he was screwed twice by the SC, which sent him to the back of the field twice.

#55 Durant

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:45

Originally posted by Matt Hughes

I lost pretty much all my respect for the guy after he acted like a 5-year old last season, but the guy's a class act on the circuit. I thought he did very well yesterday and the quicker he and Renault get nearer the front the more us fans will benefit in my opinion.

Did you also lose all ur respect for Hamilton for behaving like a 5 year old last season also?

#56 Matt Hughes

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:48

Originally posted by Durant

Did you also lose all ur respect for Hamilton for behaving like a 5 year old last season also?

To be honest I got bloody bored with the whole lot. Two multi-millionaires in their early 20s having what amounted to the world's most awkward handbag fight whilst their fans decided they'd do the same was not particularly something I enjoyed.

If you're going to do your fighting, do it on track rather than in newspapers and press conferences. Hopefully they'll both do that in 2008.

#57 Andy35

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:55

I'm sort of sitting on the fence with this one. Actually, are people allowed to sit on the fence here in this form, I have not a made a faux pas have I?

I enjoyed his drive, nice to watch someone pushing so hard that they are kicking up dust in a car without TC in the very first race of the year. Some drivers, name no names, had trouble without pushing so much. Of course he made that opportunistic pass as well.

On the other hand, it was rather a war of attrition in front of him, as people have pointed out, and as the season goes on and as people stay in front of him more so I wonder how much we will see of him compared to today ? He might be fighting for midfeild mediocrity and we will not see much of him.

It will be interesting to see him in the first wet practice / race though. Could be fun and fireworks.

Regards

Andy

#58 airwise

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:59

Originally posted by Durant

Half of the drivers who started infront make mistakes.

Maybe because they were pushing and trying real overtaking manoevres ;) Still cruising brought home the points this weekend. More often than not this season he's going to have to push though to make the points. I've always said I admire his consistency and ability to maintain pace throughout a race. But that only gets you points and race wins in a quick enough car. Unless Renault make some kind of aero breakthrough before the European season, I can only see him struggling in midfield at best. It's difficult to believe this will happen given the prolonged gestation period given to the R28 and the competitiveness of other teams such as Honda, Toyota and Red Bull.

#59 Durant

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:11

Originally posted by airwise

Maybe because they were pushing and trying real overtaking manoevres ;) Still cruising brought home the points this weekend. More often than not this season he's going to have to push though to make the points. I've always said I admire his consistency and ability to maintain pace throughout a race. But that only gets you points and race wins in a quick enough car. Unless Renault make some kind of aero breakthrough before the European season, I can only see him struggling in midfield at best. It's difficult to believe this will happen given the prolonged gestation period given to the R28 and the competitiveness of other teams such as Honda, Toyota and Red Bull.

If he can go from 11th to 4th while overtaking Mclarens and Ferraris on track in the one corner , while cruising, just imagine what he will do once he decides to step on it. :up:

You seem to think it wont get better than this for Alonso, when it actually wont get worse because he wont be qualifying outside of the top 10 again im sure. He will be fighting for a podium next race.

#60 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:17

Never had any time for Fred until last year. Total respect to him for standing his ground and not allowing Mac to treat him with disrespect. He paid a high price for his principles, but that is exactly why I admire him. It would have been so easy to roll over and accept Ron´s crap, but not Fred. Good on you boy. He showed yesterday that he has a racers heart.

#61 airwise

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:17

Of course he will.

By the way, how do you make out that he was screwed by the safety car? Lap 45 he was eighth, everyone in front of him had stopped except Kova who was 33 seconds up the road. Fred still had to stop. Without the safety car, he might have held onto his position at best, although Nakajima was threatening. This has nothing to do with anything other than a complete misrepresentation of the facts by the Fred fanboys on this board.

#62 Arion

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 09:24

We don't know how good the Renault is, it looks a dog of a car in the hands of Piquet Jr, maybe that flatters Alonso a bit, but I enjoyed his race.

#63 vlcc

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 13:08

Originally posted by airwise
Let's look at the facts.

10 drivers started in front of Fred.

5 of them retired from the race putting him nett 6th

1 was given a stop go penalty dropping him out of contention. Alonso nett 5th.

1 was screwed by safety car, overtook Fred with ease, then made simple error letting Alonso inherit position on last lap. Nett 4th.

Actual finishing position 4th. Nett 4th.

Fastest lap. Lap 58. Seventh fastest.

Verdict :Cruise and collect. Untidy at times.

WTF makes people think this was a great drive? Meanwhile Bordais and Kimi both started behind him and should have finished in front of him with similar levels of reliability.

i hope you realise that you are talking ****

kimi was 16th - up to 4th - ended up last (mechanical failiure is irrelevant in this respect)

the key is to make the absolute best of the given situation and alonso did 100%

this is what makes a wdc

#64 bomber

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 13:19

Originally posted by Ben

I'll third that sentiment. The guy behaved like a petulant child last year because he thought he would have an easy ride to championship number 3 - it's hardly Lewis's fault that he was better than FA anticipated.

Good drive today. Can hardly be considered great the way Heikki got by. No matter how good the car is you still lose a huge amount of performance following another car and HK owned him for that section of that lap - before making a massive cock-up of his own granted, but FA's drive was hardly the stuff of legend - an average run to a higher position than it deserved due to the unreliability of others nothing more.

Ben

exactly

#65 1george

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 16:29

Originally posted by SeanValen
Of cource he'll look better in the Renault that won't compete for a win
If he wanted a real challenge, he should of remained at Mclaren and challenged Hamilton until he won, that's my personal view.

But I'm glad he's still in f1, he's still a great driver, for our entertainment.

Unfortunately the personalities of Ron and Fernando mixed like water and oil. If you are not happy in the company you are working for and don't get on well with your boss, the best thing is to leave.

Like many of yours change your respectable opinion about Fernando, some of us thinks that Ron is not the kind of person he pretends to be.

And nothing happens.

#66 NineOneSeven

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 17:14

Originally posted by Matt Hughes

I lost pretty much all my respect for the guy after he acted like a 5-year old last season, but the guy's a class act on the circuit. I thought he did very well yesterday and the quicker he and Renault get nearer the front the more us fans will benefit in my opinion.

^^^ I agree.

Alonso is temperamental (who isn't these days), however in the car he demonstrated strength and determination. He drove a solid focused race, which to me seemed as he out-performed his car.
I have to give his due. Well done Alonso.

#67 Suntrek

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 17:49

Originally posted by airwise
Let's look at the facts.

10 drivers started in front of Fred.

5 of them retired from the race putting him nett 6th

1 was given a stop go penalty dropping him out of contention. Alonso nett 5th.

1 was screwed by safety car, overtook Fred with ease, then made simple error letting Alonso inherit position on last lap. Nett 4th.

Actual finishing position 4th. Nett 4th.

Fastest lap. Lap 58. Seventh fastest.

Verdict :Cruise and collect. Untidy at times.

WTF makes people think this was a great drive? Meanwhile Bordais and Kimi both started behind him and should have finished in front of him with similar levels of reliability.

You've missed the whole point, dear. It doesn't matter where he finished, his drive hadn't been less good if he's finished further down in the prize list.

People in this thread are praising him for a spectacular drive, wringing the absolute maximum out of a slow, difficult car and for never giving up. Get it? :wave:

#68 airwise

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 19:17

Originally posted by Suntrek

People in this thread are praising him for a spectacular drive, wringing the absolute maximum out of a slow, difficult car and for never giving up. Get it?

But we don't know how slow and difficult the car was in reality. We do know that he managed to find a whole second in pace on the last lap of the race when he had to. That says something. We also know that lap was 7th fastest of the cars going the distance and that without the second safety car and some late retirements he would have been lucky to make the points. Only Alonso could get such praise for what was a decidedly lucky result and unquantifiable performance.

#69 Apex

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 19:52

It's funny how top drivers always get so much credit drives like this one. I've seen this before with drivers like Räikkönen and, perhaps most notably, Schumacher. Sure it was a nice performance but was it really that great, compared to that of Rosberg or Heidfeld for example?

#70 IannDC

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 19:55

Originally posted by Jason

If Alonso is smart, he'll stay at Renault. When Michael Schumacher joined Ferrari they weren't a top team, but he stayed there and help make them at top team. Alonso should do the same thing at Renault.

I second that. There are more plusses staying and growing with a team than switching every now and then. And the technical team at Renault is quite a quality outfit.

#71 IannDC

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 20:20

I think rival fan boys should step aside and cool it.

Is it possible to appreciate the drivers’ skills during the race without sentiments getting in the way? I thought Alonso was not going to feature much before the Australian GP, but his drive on Sunday gave me a gulp.

Whether he got points or not, is not the point.

I don’t think he will feature anywhere in the front any time soon, but in sport you have to admire grit and determination, we saw that in Melbourne mixed with some talent, and I think we are going to see that a bit more. This sort of focus sometimes springs a few surprises and that is what makes watching sport exhilarating.

Whether Alonso will get demoralised after a while not getting on the podium, we will have to see, but we should celebrate the spirit of determination in sport when we see it.

#72 le chat noir

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 20:26

Originally posted by Durant

he was screwed twice by the SC

strange, i saw alonso say he was lucky with the sc in an interview post-race. maybe you know better than he does?

#73 Atic Atac

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 22:48

Originally posted by le chat noir

strange, i saw alonso say he was lucky with the sc in an interview post-race. maybe you know better than he does?

He said he was pissed off by the SC, but on the other hand he was lucky due to the retirements and the kova issue.

He was happy for the result (he expected 8-9th) but upset for the car

#74 Josta

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 22:52

Originally posted by Apex
It's funny how top drivers always get so much credit drives like this one. I've seen this before with drivers like Räikkönen and, perhaps most notably, Schumacher. Sure it was a nice performance but was it really that great, compared to that of Rosberg or Heidfeld for example?

Yes, because Alonso pulled off a number of overtaking moves, (most notably 2 on the fastest car on the grid). Rosberg and Heidfeld just had good pit strategy. I don't actually recall either pulling off any overtaking moves at all.

#75 Domination

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 22:54

Originally posted by Josta

Yes, because Alonso pulled off a number of overtaking moves, (most notably 2 on the fastest car on the grid). Rosberg and Heidfeld just had good pit strategy. I don't actually recall either pulling off any overtaking moves at all.

I wouldn't say he pulled off the overtaking move. He just happened to be at the right place at the right time when kimi and kovi were battling out.

#76 lukywill

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 22:55

i was the lucky one with pace cars: i was about to step down my armchair and possibly earn some injuries but the pace car kept me alive and went running to kitchen. orange curry and fry chillis.

slept fantastic till 11.

#77 lukywill

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 22:58

alonso in a slow car and kimi in trouble in the grid adds for interesting races.

#78 Josta

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:03

Originally posted by Domination

I wouldn't say he pulled off the overtaking move. He just happened to be at the right place at the right time when kimi and kovi were battling out.

Right place at the right time when kimi and kovi were battling out, then coincidentally right place right time when kovi had a brain fade. Once I could give you, but twice, when driving a car considerably slower indicates the fault in the McLaren comes between steering wheel and seat. Ultimately, Alonso proved that he can beat Kovi despite the fact that Kovi is driving a considerably faster car. Conclusion = Alonso considerably better driver than Kovi.

#79 Domination

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:05

Originally posted by Josta

Right place at the right time when kimi and kovi were battling out, then coincidentally right place right time when kovi had a brain fade. Once I could give you, but twice, when driving a car considerably slower indicates the fault in the McLaren comes between steering wheel and seat. Ultimately, Alonso proved that he can beat Kovi despite the fact that Kovi is driving a considerably faster car. Conclusion = Alonso considerably better driver than Kovi.

Alonso didn't make a single pass on merit. He's not a better driver than Kovi.

#80 Josta

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:12

Originally posted by Domination

Alonso didn't make a single pass on merit. He's not a better driver than Kovi.

What pass was not made on merit? Kovi is driving a car that is some 8 tenths to a second faster per lap, yet Alonso passed him TWICE!!! Come back to me when you can decide what you think is "merit".

#81 le chat noir

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:19

Originally posted by Josta

What pass was not made on merit? Kovi is driving a car that is some 8 tenths to a second faster per lap, yet Alonso passed him TWICE!!! Come back to me when you can decide what you think is "merit".

when it is of his doing - instigated by him - i believe is what he means. or do you consider that when he overtook raikkonen when he went to the gravel and bourdais, when his car failed, and massa when he span at the start as being on merit to alonso too?

#82 Josta

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:27

Originally posted by le chat noir

when it is of his doing - instigated by him - i believe is what he means. or do you consider that when he overtook raikkonen when he went to the gravel and bourdais, when his car failed, and massa when he span at the start as being on merit to alonso too?

Kovi didn't go into the gravel nor did his car fail. Kovi ****ed up. Pure and simple. On both occasions. Therefore, to pass someone who has a car considerably faster than yours is on merit. Kovi ****ed up which makes him a lesser driver to come behind a car that is so far slower than his. Obviously, if Kovi drove a brilliant drive, then there would be no way for Alonso to get past, given the fact that he is driving a much slower car. This simply points out the reason why Alonso was the far better driver. Kovi ****ed up, meaning driver error, meaning error comes between steering wheel and seat. In other words, the difference was made by the driver, not the car, in which Kovi had a good 8 tenths to a second advantage per lap. Therefore, Alonso proved himself to be a FAR better driver than Kovi.

Please let me know what variables you believe prove that Kovi was the better driver, despite the fact that he got passed twice by a driver in a car that is considerably slower.

#83 nestor

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:39

Originally posted by Domination

Alonso didn't make a single pass on merit. He's not a better driver than Kovi.

Alonso passed Kova and Kimi in a single pass , what else merit do you want ????

Some people is simply stupid , Kova will never be half of the driver that Alonso is , pure and simple, but people like you is posting crap like this is what i call fanboi or just a plain troll.

#84 le chat noir

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:45

Originally posted by Josta

Kovi didn't go into the gravel nor did his car fail. Kovi ****ed up. Pure and simple. On both occasions. Therefore, to pass someone who has a car considerably faster than yours is on merit. Kovi ****ed up which makes him a lesser driver to come behind a car that is so far slower than his. Obviously, if Kovi drove a brilliant drive, then there would be no way for Alonso to get past, given the fact that he is driving a much slower car. This simply points out the reason why Alonso was the far better driver. Kovi ****ed up, meaning driver error, meaning error comes between steering wheel and seat. In other words, the difference was made by the driver, not the car, in which Kovi had a good 8 tenths to a second advantage per lap. Therefore, Alonso proved himself to be a FAR better driver than Kovi.

Please let me know what variables you believe prove that Kovi was the better driver, despite the fact that he got passed twice by a driver in a car that is considerably slower.

do you mean to say Kimi went into the gravel on purpose, and it was not a **** up? same goes for felipe, yes?

and, in that alonso had ****ed up to allow sato to pass in whatever race it was last year, is sato better than alonso too?

as is bourdais, of course.

also, was it in spain around 96 or so, when ms got rs to pass whoever had been tailing ms for ages - as well as himself-, by baulking whoever it was, was that in fact rs passing whoever it was on merit?

someone else's memory will have to fill in the glaring holes in names, places and times...;)

#85 wrighty

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:50

Originally posted by Durant

Half of the drivers who started infront make mistakes. Funny that you mention bourdaris when he profited the most from the SC and went from 13th to 5th because of it. Alonso was screwed both times by the SC because he twice pitted after it which means he lost track position and ended up last both times. I dont think ive ever seen someone as biased as you in my life. Its so extreme that it should be classed as a 'disorder'.

oh normally I read a whole thread (or at least the last 2 days postings) before I reply but this stopped me in my tracks..........physician heal thyself :lol:

On the whole I thought Alonso showed the kind of form his fans would have us believe yesterday, got to where he needed to be when it mattered as the competition fell away.....bit like Seabass but hey they both got there so on the whole, despite my repeated dislike of aspects of Alonso last year, i'm happy to say he drove well so fair play to the conniving, mono-bro.....i'm kidding ;) fair play, good race :up:

however

Originally posted by Durant
He finished where he should have given the mistakes the cars infront made and given he was screwed twice by the SC, which sent him to the back of the field twice.

sorry, could you explain again how the SC screwed 'him' twice and sent 'him' to the back of the field.....is it the safety car's fault? the drivers who were selfish enough to crash at a time not fitting in with 'his' pit schedule perhaps? go on, enlighten me please :wave:

#86 Josta

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 23:51

Originally posted by le chat noir

do you mean to say Kimi went into the gravel on purpose, and it was not a **** up? same goes for felipe, yes?

and, in that alonso had ****ed up to allow sato to pass, is sato better than alonso too?

as is bourdais, of course.

Once again you seem reluctant to talk about the matter in hand. What makes Kovi the better driver, given the fact that he got passed twice by a far slower car?

Kovi ****ed up, he had no excuses, no tyre wear, no graining, no mechanical failures. He just ****ed up. He made mistakes, and Alonso, despite being in a slower car, took advantage of them. So, tell me why you think that Kovi drove a better race than Alonso in Australia?

#87 le chat noir

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:03

Originally posted by Josta

Once again you seem reluctant to talk about the matter in hand. What makes Kovi the better driver, given the fact that he got passed twice by a far slower car?

Kovi ****ed up, he had no excuses, no tyre wear, no graining, no mechanical failures. He just ****ed up. He made mistakes, and Alonso, despite being in a slower car, took advantage of them. So, tell me why you think that Kovi drove a better race than Alonso in Australia?

never said he that he was the better driver or drove a better race, and i'm not going to. was just trying to understand how you place alonso as better than him from these two moments, and then extrapolating it to see what that view means in a larger setting, and seeing if i understand your view by asking these questions, that you've just ignored this time.

but your previous answer "Kovi didn't go into the gravel nor did his car fail. Kovi ****ed up." suggests that going into the gravel is not a **** up, which is another highly intriguing view to be explored, so i asked about that too.

to start, you were claiming fa made some super moves, which is by no means the case. he took advantage to pass albeit inherently faster cars, when they were travelling slower than was their wont, once by dint of outright driver error, the other by misfortune in the necessities of the move on kimi. but you seem to have scaled back here, to mere 'taking advantage'. which is much more rational, and does not make him the super hero that was seemingly being claimed before.

feel free to question the statements i make. and to understand what the matter at hand is - which was your justification for claiming fa to be better from these two moments on their own - not what makes kovi better, which has not been referred to here at all i don't think, at least by me.

#88 Josta

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:11

Originally posted by le chat noir

never said he that he was the better driver or drove a better race, and i'm not going to. was just trying to understand how you place alonso as better than him from these two moments, and then extrapolating it to see what that view means in a larger setting, and seeing if i understand your view by asking these questions, that you've just ignored this time.

but your previous answer "Kovi didn't go into the gravel nor did his car fail. Kovi ****ed up." suggests that going into the gravel is not a **** up, which is another highly intriguing view to be explored, so i asked about that too.

to start, you were claiming fa made some super moves, which is by no means the case. he took advantage to pass albeit inherently faster cars, when they were travelling slower than was their wont, once by dint of outright driver error, the other by misfortune in the necessities of the move on kimi. but you seem to have scaled back here, to mere 'taking advantage'. which is much more rational, and does not make him the super hero that was seemingly being claimed before.

feel free to question the statements i make. and to understand what the matter at hand is - which was your justification for claiming fa to be better from these two moments on their own - not what makes kovi better, which has not been referred to here at all i don't think, at least by me.

Ok, I will take one sentence of yours. "what makes kovi better"? Obviously there have been several instances to prove the opposite, so tell me, what is the answer to "what makes kovi better"?

Give just one example. Otherwise, you are just a troll who cannot back up facts.

#89 le chat noir

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:12

Originally posted by Josta

Ok, I will take one sentence of yours. "what makes kovi better"? Obviously there have been several instances to prove the opposite, so tell me, what is the answer to "what makes kovi better"?

Give just one example. Otherwise, you are just a troll who cannot back up facts.

please show where that is taken from :confused:

#90 Josta

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:27

what makes kovi better

This, now try to take a step back and imagine what makes Alonso better. Alonso has proven that he is better, so why deny this???

For example, Alonso has proven that he can win championships, (multiple that is). He has proven that he can win races. He has won races in cars far lesser than Heikki is driving. He has beaten Heikki in a car that is far inferior to what Heikki is driving. What the **** else is he supposed to do to prove to you that he is the better driver??? I mean for ****s sake, the guy overtakes a McLaren, (which is some 2 or 3 teams ahead of his team in terms of performance), not just once but TWICE, yet still you say it is down to some sort of luck.

McLaren is clearly the fastest car at the moment. Yet Heikki still loses to the crappy Renault that couldn't manage the final cut in quali. Not just once, but TWICE!!! How many times did Heikki overtake a McLaren last year? You are clearly of the opinion that Alonso could lap every other team whilst driving a Spyker, yet still be lucky in some way. It is amusing to be honest.

Again, let me know what Heikki has done to be considered as good as Alonso?

#91 wrighty

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:30

Originally posted by Josta

This, now try to take a step back and imagine what makes Alonso better. Alonso has proven that he is better, so why deny this???

For example, Alonso has proven that he can win championships, (multiple that is). He has proven that he can win races. He has won races in cars far lesser than Heikki is driving. He has beaten Heikki in a car that is far inferior to what Heikki is driving. What the **** else is he supposed to do to prove to you that he is the better driver??? I mean for ****s sake, the guy overtakes a McLaren, (which is some 2 or 3 teams ahead of his team in terms of performance), not just once but TWICE, yet still you say it is down to some sort of luck.

McLaren is clearly the fastest car at the moment. Yet Heikki still loses to the crappy Renault that couldn't manage the final cut in quali. Not just once, but TWICE!!! How many times did Heikki overtake a McLaren last year? You are clearly of the opinion that Alonso could lap every other team whilst driving a Spyker, yet still be lucky in some way. It is amusing to be honest.

Again, let me know what Heikki has done to be considered as good as Alonso?

wtf? you say le chat said that (that kovi is better) and I couldnt find it anywhere in the thread, then you quote it to launch off on a pro-Alonso rant? jeez is this the best you can come up with? for fcks sakes get a grip, that's a new low for fanboy shite i'm afraid

#92 Josta

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:31

Originally posted by wrighty

wtf? you say le chat said that (that kovi is better) and I couldnt find it anywhere in the thread, then you quote it to launch off on a pro-Alonso rant? jeez is this the best you can come up with? for fcks sakes get a grip, that's a new low for fanboy shite i'm afraid

So, who do you think is better?

#93 le chat noir

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:33

Originally posted by Josta

This, now try to take a step back and imagine what makes Alonso better. Alonso has proven that he is better, so why deny this???

For example, Alonso has proven that he can win championships, (multiple that is). He has proven that he can win races. He has won races in cars far lesser than Heikki is driving. He has beaten Heikki in a car that is far inferior to what Heikki is driving. What the **** else is he supposed to do to prove to you that he is the better driver??? I mean for ****s sake, the guy overtakes a McLaren, (which is some 2 or 3 teams ahead of his team in terms of performance), not just once but TWICE, yet still you say it is down to some sort of luck.

McLaren is clearly the fastest car at the moment. Yet Heikki still loses to the crappy Renault that couldn't manage the final cut in quali. Not just once, but TWICE!!! How many times did Heikki overtake a McLaren last year? You are clearly of the opinion that Alonso could lap every other team whilst driving a Spyker, yet still be lucky in some way. It is amusing to be honest.

Again, let me know what Heikki has done to be considered as good as Alonso?

but tell me where i'm supposed to have said kova is better!

now you are also moving your argument broader - to include other achievement by alonso. to begin, it was just these two moves.

beyond that you're getting delusional. and rather aggressive, rather than answering my initial questions to your statements, you're going completely away from the subject that was the basis for the conversation.

#94 wrighty

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:35

Originally posted by Josta

So, who do you think is better?

between Alonso and Kovi? Alonso shades it by not very much at all, but ask me again when Kovi has 5 years of experience ...... as men, Alonso's already shot his bolt for me, some of his behaviour over the last couple of years has been reprehensible, whereas I can't think that Kovi got anywhere near that kind of thing at all......i'm still disgusted at you using half a sentence completely out of context to build your pro-FA argument though, that's piss poor.

#95 wrighty

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:37

Originally posted by le chat noir

but tell me where i'm supposed to have said kova is better!

Originally posted by le chat noir

never said he that he was the better driver or drove a better race, and i'm not going to. was just trying to understand how you place alonso as better than him from these two moments, and then extrapolating it to see what that view means in a larger setting, and seeing if i understand your view by asking these questions, that you've just ignored this time.

but your previous answer "Kovi didn't go into the gravel nor did his car fail. Kovi ****ed up." suggests that going into the gravel is not a **** up, which is another highly intriguing view to be explored, so i asked about that too.

to start, you were claiming fa made some super moves, which is by no means the case. he took advantage to pass albeit inherently faster cars, when they were travelling slower than was their wont, once by dint of outright driver error, the other by misfortune in the necessities of the move on kimi. but you seem to have scaled back here, to mere 'taking advantage'. which is much more rational, and does not make him the super hero that was seemingly being claimed before.

feel free to question the statements i make. and to understand what the matter at hand is - which was your justification for claiming fa to be better from these two moments on their own - not what makes kovi better, which has not been referred to here at all i don't think, at least by me.

there it is m8, competely out of context :up:

#96 le chat noir

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:38

Originally posted by wrighty

there it is m8, competely out of context

i know! i was waiting for him to post it tho!

#97 wrighty

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:39

Originally posted by le chat noir

i know! i was waiting for him to post it tho!

lmao oops my bad :rotfl:

what utter bilge, this is hilarious :clap:

it's took 5 minutes in this thread and i feel like i need to wash my hands.......did anyone quote me congratulating FA on a decent drive or can I go back and wipe that still? the 'support' he receives kinda taints any empathy I felt for him :rolleyes:

#98 Josta

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:40

Originally posted by le chat noir

but tell me where i'm supposed to have said it!

Well basically it comes from your defence of domination where he posted

Alonso didn't make a single pass on merit. He's not a better driver than Kovi.

And you posted

when it is of his doing - instigated by him - i believe is what he means. or do you consider that when he overtook raikkonen when he went to the gravel and bourdais, when his car failed, and massa when he span at the start as being on merit to alonso too?

In other words, you were backing up the words of "He's not a better driver than Kovi". I was merely proving that this is a sack of ****.

Unless you are prepared to admit that Kovi has proven that he is nowhere near as good as Alonso.

#99 le chat noir

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:46

Originally posted by Josta

So, who do you think is better?

i'll actually answer this too, as my questions never will be.

who is a better driver?

well, better at pedalling? alonso for now by a shade.

better at PR? kovi by 100 yards.

better at setup? alonso from experience, the advantage rapidly diminishing probably to nil.

better at team relations? kovi by 1000 yards.

who's the better known prospect? alonso

who has more potential? kovi

who's known to be flawed? alonso

who to give a five year contract to? kovi, for the guarantees of what he'll do, harmoniously, with big potential to far exceed expectations.

#100 le chat noir

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 00:54

Originally posted by Josta

Well basically it comes from your defence of domination where he posted

And you posted

In other words, you were backing up the words of "He's not a better driver than Kovi". I was merely proving that this is a sack of ****.

Unless you are prepared to admit that Kovi has proven that he is nowhere near as good as Alonso.

and yet my post was in response to your question to him which ran:

What pass was not made on merit? Kovi is driving a car that is some 8 tenths to a second faster per lap, yet Alonso passed him TWICE!!! Come back to me when you can decide what you think is "merit".

So I was, in fact, putting forth a guess as to what domination meant by on merit, for you to reply to. which you did, by suggesting it was on merit to pass kimi stranded in the gravel, which was bizarre, so i questioned that, and you went off on one.

further, 'he's not a better driver than kovi" does not equate to "kovi is a better driver than he".

these two moments, i also suggested, were not enough to claim alonso better than kovi, which is what you were doing. you have broadened your argument, and above i have now given my view to the question. and its not a black&white answer, i hope you can handle that. put simply though, in more black&white terms for your delectation, i do not agree that the statement "he's not a better driver than kovi" is a sack of ****. but then, it ain't a sack of roses either.

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