Bahrain GP 2008 - post race comments

Short analysis of the race:

excellent.

Moment of the race, first I thought that it to be Lewis stalling himself, then I thought that it was Lewis colliding himself, but I decided that eventually it was his continuous visor correcting procedure which looked like fist waving to the outsiders. Alonso did the same thing on one straight, but it was the hand coming loose because of the air flow. It can happen, you know.

Man of the race: Felipe.

All of the pointscorers drove pretty well and without mistakes. Kimi was a bit dissappointing but it says alot about Massa and RBR did pretty well to get 7th considering they didnt make Q2. Is this "Webber and Trulli can qualify but not race well" thing put to rest now?

Go BMW!

I'll probably get lots of crap thrown on me for this but I don't care. I've always thought Lewis had it too easy to get into a top seat. It's like instead of starting his way at the bottom of the skyscraper like all other greats before him, and having to slowly climb up all of the stairs.. Ron flew him in a helicopter and dropped him straight onto the roof.

He's done well so far in his time, but you have to look at other rookies who have struggled and wonder how they'd do in a car thats so hooked up compared to a Force India or a STR. I've thought all along that if Hamilton was in a RBR, or a STR, or a Williams or Renault that he'd struggle alot and would need to learn things the hard way. It's pressure throughout the whole weekend in a midfield car, the tyres you use to get past Q1, and then the tight battle to get into Q2. One only has to look at Alonso to see how little driver skill or pace matters to the results. For a top car, you can afford to lose time or make a mistake and still finish ahead of those midfield cars. Where as a midfield car has to be perfect or it will be no points.

So far the last 2 races, he's had bad luck thats forced him down the field and both times he s struggled quite a bit. And that's been in a top car racing against midfield cars. Imagine if it was midfield car vs midfield car. Alonso had moments last season where he was stuck in the pack, and while all drivers will suffer a little, he managed to avoid incidents and had some great overatakes like the one against Heidfeld in France.

The sky is not falling down, and of course he will bounce back, but things are starting to look shakey. It's good at least that in future races, he will have to battle against the BMW's as well as the Ferrari's and thats better then nothing. We will start to see what Lewis is made of and if he is up to the challenge.

edit- I was too busy with live timing to see, but if Lewis gestured to the slower cars as he passed them it sums up that he got a top car too early and has no respect for what it takes to drive those cars.

Originally posted by AFCA
I was impressed with Alonso. Hamilton had damaged his rearwing quite severe, an endplate was missing as well as a part at the rearside...

It seems it didn't affect the handling of the car too much:

The Renault driver said, however, that the accident had not affected his car too much. "A little bit," he said. "There was some damage to the rear wing, but the car wasn't handling too badly compared to practice and qualifying. It was more or less the same so I don't think I could have done much more.

Men of the race: Raikks and Heidfeld; both had to pass on track to get to where they finish...

This race was Ferrari's to lose (due to testing), so come Barca, as Rakkinen said, the season really starts!

A pretty faultless display from Massa this weekend - clearly had the legs on Kimi which may bode for an interesting season.

BMW pushed to the end but in reality could not live with the Ferrari pace.

A poor race from Mclaren - Hamilton not himself all weekend to be honest. Heikki was very disappointing too - mistake letting NH through then poor pace through the first two stints. Work to do at Barcelona I think

Webber again mature and quick as was Trulli. Great drive from Fisi again - team mate Sutil firmly in the shade yet again.

Alonso subdued considering the early damage has little or no affect according to the man himself. He seems resigned to his fate at the moment. The Honda was all over him at the end.

Drive of the day? Webber for me.

Originally posted by yr


You might be right on there. Now, come to think of it, Renault wasnt a WDC contender in the hands of Alonso before Fisi signed in, then Alonso took advantage of Fisi´s 6 tenths and went on to win couple of WDCs.

Haha, and just look at his Force India right now

Originally posted by pasadena
Most probably we are. F2008 seems to be capable of dominating easily. McLaren would go downhill, BMW is the only hope (a slim one, that is) of putting up a fight with Ferraris.

Reliability is still questionable, though. So far 1 race out of 3 ended for both Ferrari drivers due to mech gremlins (although KR scored 1 point in Melbourne, he was practically retired at the time). That´s too much...

Think something like this 3-race scenario:

1.KR 2.FM 3.LH 4.HK

1.FM 2.KR 3.HK 4.LH

1.LH 2.HK, DNF for both Ferraris

Points:

LH 6+5+10=21

HK 5+6+8=19

KR 10+8+0=18

FM 8+10+0=18

Kinda shows how important (and underrated) reliability is, huh? Of course, if BMW keeps beating McLaren...things look different. McLaren seems bullet-proof, and speed-wise things can change when European tour begins.

Originally posted by Sébastien
Nope he had a problem with the radio and they choose to fix that in the pits.

that would explain it, then.

Great race by Ferrari, and in particular Massa!
Kimi ok, nice overtaking on Kubica.
BMW also great race, good pace, they just might win a race soon!
Hamilton

Dare I say it?

McLaren seems to be missing Alonso. Or a driver with some solid experience who can quickly arrive at a good base setup for the car during race weekends.

Maybe part of their problem is having two semi-rookies in the car.

Now, to the race:

Massa

Perfect! Bahrain is great track for Felipe, and he delivered. Great way to stop talks about him being replaced!

Räikkönen

As fast as Massa on Sunday, but average qualifying performance cost him few crucial seconds in the race.

Kubica

Surprise of the year...!?

Kovalainen, Heidfeld

Solid race by both

Hamilton

Oops

Originally posted by indian
Dare I say it?

McLaren seems to be missing Alonso. Or a driver with some solid experience who can quickly arrive at a good base setup for the car during race weekends.

Maybe part of their problem is having two semi-rookies in the car.

Alonso´s base setups sure are making Renault look good ATM...;)

Originally posted by mowaru


It's you ...

Fisi has been always a very good driver. Maybe you started seeing F1 when Button started to score podiums.

I don't think you understood what I was actually saying, but that's okay. I was speaking more from his mental focus this year-he seems refreshed and relishing his new role in this team, rather than being in Alonso's shadow at Renault and I've been very impressed with his drives and work ethic so far this year. But thanks for the insult.

Originally posted by yr


Whatever that might be, it is not Alonso, because Renault is also doing worse now than they did in 2007.

Well, I never said what it is. I have no idea what it is.

I see several rating Raikkönen as "mediocre".

He did two passes on the track and could well keep up with Massa (apart from a bit of exceptional traffic) after he got clear from Kubica. All the while, Massa hails his car as "perfect" and Kimi admitting they never got the car even "good".

In a weekend where everything went Massas way, he quite narrowly beats Kimi. That doesn't bode well for any WDC hopes Massa might have.

Originally posted by Spunout


Alonso´s base setups sure are making Renault look good ATM...;)

I personally feel that Alonso in the Renault is being flattered by Nelsinho's lack of ability

Originally posted by The Big Guns


Haha, and just look at his Force India right now

Yep. In few races time, we might see Fisi finishing ahead of both Renaults.

Originally posted by Henrik Brodin
I see several rating Raikkönen as "mediocre".

He did two passes on the track and could well keep up with Massa (apart from a bit of exceptional traffic) after he got clear from Kubica. All the while, Massa hails his car as "perfect" and Kimi admitting they never got the car even "good".

In a weekend where everything went Massas way, he quite narrowly beats Kimi. That doesn't bode well for any WDC hopes Massa might have.

What doesn't bode well is Kimi's quali form. If he does'nt improve fast he'll have a tough time this year.
He was lucky in Malaysia BMW and McLaren were not up to par. You could squeeze a lot of cars in that half a second gap.

Webber is under investigation, some issues with the floor.

Originally posted by HoldenRT


I'll probably get lots of crap thrown on me for this but I don't care. I've always thought Lewis had it too easy to get into a top seat. It's like instead of starting his way at the bottom of the skyscraper like all other greats before him, and having to slowly climb up all of the stairs.. Ron flew him in a helicopter and dropped him straight onto the roof.

I think the same was said about Kimi when he moved to McLaren. Lewis was awful today, but even experienced drivers sometimes make stupid mistakes. Schumarcher only had a few races in Jordan before snapped up by Bennetton, not all the greats had to slowly climb up the stairs.

Good race, Massa, Kimi & Kubica.

Who'd have thought the Toyota's would be a force this year!?

Hamilton looks to have driven in Alonso himself, Autosport quoted as seeing the telemetry and seeing both
a heavy foot on the throttle by Alonso and a straight acceleration curve - no braking. Ironic thing is (and this illustrates one of Renault's problems, the car accelerated when hit by the mclaren! (so Mercedes-Benz still powering Alonso - wonder if the regs say anything about two engines in a vehicle?!).......

Re. hand gestures, Hamilton seemed to have borrowed his gesture from Coulthard, or was he offering Fisi a cup of gold blend (apologies for non UK readers who haven't historically enjoyed the gold-blend-shake!)....

Roll on Barcelona, if renault, red bull, williams or toyota get their acts together we may have more than a 3+ team race for wins

Originally posted by cardin


What doesn't bode well is Kimi's quali form. If he does'nt improve fast he'll have a tough time this year.
He was lucky in Malaysia BMW and McLaren were not up to par. You could squeeze a lot of cars in that half a second gap.

Apparently, Ferrari are bringing updates to Barcelona which should help him with those problems.

It's quite odd when you look at his McLaren years where he was always a good qualifier.

Originally posted by ferrariwonagain
Webber is under investigation, some issues with the floor.

can't this poor guy ever get break?

Coulthard's comments on Button incident

'...........I was battling for position with Jenson (Button), who was quicker. We got too close in one corner and had an incident, which took him out of the race and caused more damage to my car.'

Racing incident then. :

Originally posted by ferrariwonagain
Webber is under investigation, some issues with the floor.

webber cannot catch a break

Originally posted by Yellowmc


Apparently, Ferrari are bringing updates to Barcelona which should help him with those problems.

It's quite odd when you look at his McLaren years where he was always a good qualifier.

Cos Massa is a very good qualifier, better than DC and JPM

Originally posted by indian
Dare I say it?

McLaren seems to be missing Alonso. Or a driver with some solid experience who can quickly arrive at a good base setup for the car during race weekends.

Maybe part of their problem is having two semi-rookies in the car.

You may dare, but what the hell are you talking about? Lewis stuck the car third on the grid, Kovleinen fifth and they were quick from Friday on.

Originally posted by Arion


Cos Massa is a very good qualifier, better than DC and JPM

Gonna have to disagree,

DC yes.... JPM no.....

Originally posted by Mika Mika


Gonna have to disagree,

DC yes.... JPM no.....

Yep, JPM was outstanding over 1 lap.

Originally posted by Mika Mika


Gonna have to disagree,

DC yes.... JPM no.....

ok JPM was better than DC, as for Massa and JPM, we'll never know for sure.

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
You may dare, but what the hell are you talking about? Lewis stuck the car third on the grid, Kovleinen fifth and they were quick from Friday on.

It's not qualy I am talking about, it's the race. Probably my views are slightly skewed because of the incidents with Lewis in Sepang (pit-stop) and here. But, except in Australia the McLarens haven't looked quick enough to clearly beat the BMWs, let alone the Ferraris.

Add to it, Lewis's comments about his setup in Sepang (looked unsure after qualy) and HK/RD's comments about HK's setup in today's race (having to continually dial out understeer during the race).

Originally posted by Arion


I think the same was said about Kimi when he moved to McLaren. Lewis was awful today, but even experienced drivers sometimes make stupid mistakes. Schumarcher only had a few races in Jordan before snapped up by Bennetton, not all the greats had to slowly climb up the stairs.

MS never had one race with Benetton, he qualified one once, burnt out the clutch so never raced and that was it before joining benetton.

Originally posted by indian
It's not qualy I am talking about, it's the race.

I think they were plenty quick in Malaysia, Ham would have been fighting if not for his buggered pitstop. Bahrain and the Macs clearly weren't happy (brakes or air? - Ferrari even ran alternate brand of brakes) but I wonder how hard Hamilton was or could push after the front wing problem. Chances for points were almost zero unless attrition came to bare so they may have dialed it back.

Hamilton had a bad race. so what? everyone has a bad race. Kimi had a really bad race in Australia. Massa has had two bad races.

Bad strategy by McLaren, it seems that the track is not suitable for heavy fuel load, they lost a lot of time with more fuel but everyone else didn't lose so much time during pit stop.

Originally posted by Arion


Cos Massa is a very good qualifier, better than DC and JPM

Have you watched the 2002 season?

Originally posted by Anomnader


MS never had one race with Jordan, he qualified one once, burnt out the clutch so never raced and that was it before joining benetton.

Accidentally his teammate nearly won the race, I wonder what could have Schumi done without that cluth failure. Well, it never will be answered.

Fastest laps

01 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren 1:33.193

02 Nick Heidfeld BMW 1:33.565

03 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:33.600

04 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1:33.709

05 Robert Kubica BMW 1:33.775

06 Nico Rosberg Williams 1:34.072

07 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:34.204

08 Mark Webber Red Bull 1:34.305

09 Timo Glock Toyota 1:34.807

10 Rubens Barrichello Honda 1:34.855

11 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India 1:35.057

12 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 1:35.129

13 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:35.194

14 Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 1:35.324

15 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 1:35.333

16 David Coulthard Red Bull 1:35.351

17 Kazuki Nakajima Williams 1:35.433

18 Adrian Sutil Force India 1:35.442

19 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1:35.520

20 Takuma Sato Super Aguri 1:35.891

21 Jenson Button Honda 1:36.125

Originally posted by GiancarloF1


Accidentally his teammate nearly won the race, I wonder what could have Schumi done without that cluth failure. Well, it never will be answered.

I looked at the crystal ball and it said that he would have made a stupid mistake and hit Prost, had given a three-race penalty and his career would have been over. It is as likely as any other unhappened result, if you suggest that he would have won...

Nostalgy forum talk, by the way.

Originally posted by Arion


I think the same was said about Kimi when he moved to McLaren. Lewis was awful today, but even experienced drivers sometimes make stupid mistakes. Schumarcher only had a few races in Jordan before snapped up by Bennetton, not all the greats had to slowly climb up the stairs.

Benetton 91/92 is hardly equal to Mac 07/08.

Felipe really showed his critics today. All these posts and threads about his so called shortcomings were premature. Great weekend, Felipe!

BMW is coming on fast and it actually seem like they are at least on McLaren's level. Infact they may already have surpassed the Woking outfit.

Fisi had a strong race in that crap car.

Coulthard should retire before something really bad happens.

Originally posted by cartman
I have to say hats off to Massa
He dominated Kimi in qualifying and race, won his first race from non-pole position and picked himself up after a difficult start to season.

Kimi Seems to stuggle with this track but picked enought points to take the lead in the WDC
Nice overtake on Kubica!

BMW were VERY STRONG! They spanked McLaren's ass and were right behind Ferrari. Good job from both drivers.
BMW leading the WCC Mario must be proud.


A weekend to forget for Hamilton. His worst race ever.

Agree on all points.

Massa was very impressive, and truly deserved the victory. His lap in Q3 was clearly MUCH better then Kimi's... and even though Kimi showed good race pace Massa was able to respond every single time, this weekend is for Massa to remember. Faultless performance.

Originally posted by Aki
Felipe really showed his critics today. All these posts and threads about his so called shortcomings were premature. Great weekend, Felipe!

BMW is coming on fast and it actually seem like they are at least on McLaren's level. Infact they may already have surpassed the Woking outfit.

Fisi had a strong race in that crap car.

Coulthard should retire before something really bad happens.

I don't think the threads about Felipe were premature at all. I agree with your entire post and I was very impressed with him today but he has to build on this and keep getting solid points. The question still remains:can he put in solid enough performances on a consistent level that will allow him to challenge for the title? 2 bad races compared to 1 good one doesn't have him out of the woods just yet.

Originally posted by Henrik Brodin
I see several rating Raikkönen as "mediocre".

He did two passes on the track and could well keep up with Massa (apart from a bit of exceptional traffic) after he got clear from Kubica. All the while, Massa hails his car as "perfect" and Kimi admitting they never got the car even "good".

In a weekend where everything went Massas way, he quite narrowly beats Kimi. That doesn't bode well for any WDC hopes Massa might have.

It is a well known excuse for the slower teammate to claim there was a 'problem with the car'.

Rarely do drivers admit that their teammate was plainly quicker. Throughout this wkd, Massa has had the legs on KR. Short and simple; excuses will not wash.

Perfect job for Massa

KR a little down

good to see the BMW fights with Ferrari

Trulli

Webber

But my special prize goes to Fisi
it seems a rookie when he fights for the midifield positions...a new life for him, i hope to see soon Force India fight for points.

About Hamilton
It was so ridicoulus his protest against Sato and Fisi....please. He lost my respect.

Originally posted by Anomnader


MS never had one race with Benetton, he qualified one once, burnt out the clutch so never raced and that was it before joining benetton.

Perhaps a trip down memeory lane will do wonders for your recall. IIRC, MS won two WDCs and 19 races with Benetton.

Great race from Massa, Kubica, and Fisi.

Sorry, it had to be done. First post on these forums by the way.

Originally posted by Link101






Sorry, it had to be done. First post on these forums by the way.

nice did anyone notice on a podium it looked like domenicali asked kimi if the subsitute champagne was good and kimi said its okay