Bahrain GP 2008 - post race comments

Total domination from Massa, apart from that kick-up in Q3. He really has been untouchable apart from that though. Räikkönen makes it a 1-2 for Ferrari.

BMW have definately had a faster race-car than McLaren here. Over one lap with fresh tires I'd say their car is as fast as Ferrari's. Great results and great driving from both drivers.

Low-key weekend for McLaren, OK performance from Kovalainen, off-colour weekend from Hamilton.
Fastest lap by Kovalainen was the result of fresh tires late in the race, with a light fuel load. Paremeters no-one else had.

Trulli and Toyota continue to do well, and are clearly well established as the fourth fastest package.

Webber had a fantastic race I think, to stay so close to Trulli and beat Rosberg. Contender for man of the race IMO. DC.... a weekend to forget, as soon as possible.

A shame what happened to Button at the start, 'cause his pace lying last was very good.

Alonso and Renault packs up point-less. Hard fights with others, and also with the R28.

I'd like to comment that already the races this year have been more exciting than last which perhaps shows that getting rid of traction control has been proven to be a good idea by the authorities.

We've not even had a wet race yet either. Can't wait for that.

Regards

Andy

Massa and Kimi gap remained pretty same after Kimi got past Kubica.

First time ever in this situation Massa didnt slow down Kimi.

Total disaster for Hamilton. I wonder what happened at the start, car or driver problem.

Good work by Felipe Massa & Ferrari! Won the race from turn 1 onwards.

Kimi did well to get enough points to take the lead in the WDC.

Kubica said he hit some oil & debris in the early laps but did well to recover.

Nick's 4th in the race but 2nd in the WDC!

First four drivers have all driven for Sauber!

I'ld like to have some more info on:
1. Explanation of Hamilton's poor / desastrous start
2. Effects on pace for LH and FA after the incident / brake testing / .. (whatever suits your brain)

Hmmm...a pretty boring race weekend all round.

It was good to see somebody else on pole for a change, but a shame that it ultimately counted for not much at all really.

The race was as dull as dishwater and the only interesting thing that happened the entire race was the 'whatever that was all about' incident between Alonso and Hamilton.

As a Brit and Hamilton fan it was a pity on one hand that he scored no points, but good on the other side that the championship battle remains open as we enter the European leg of the season.

A tedious race but good for setting up a decent mid-season and hopefully final part.

Mclaren look to be crumbling. They lack the guidance and experience that Alonso brought them and now they look very sloppy, just like Hamilton is. Big crash in practice, terrible start then ramming Alonso. The pressure is getting to him. No WC for you this year son. BMW is now the second best team. Its a pity he ruined Alonsos race though, Im sure he could have got some points otherwise.

I have to say hats off to Massa
He dominated Kimi in qualifying and race, won his first race from non-pole position and picked himself up after a difficult start to season.

Kimi Seems to stuggle with this track but picked enought points to take the lead in the WDC
Nice overtake on Kubica!

BMW were VERY STRONG! They spanked McLaren's ass and were right behind Ferrari. Good job from both drivers.
BMW leading the WCC Mario must be proud.


A weekend to forget for Hamilton. His worst race ever.

The relevant facts from the race, IMO

Massa, on his day, can be faster than Raikkonen. It is a pity he seems to be rather irregular.

The BMWs are in the hunt, with Kubika ahead of Heidfeld (which does not surprise me)

Hamilton is not living up to his hype and Kovalainen is not fast enough to challenge Ferrari and BMW

Alonso is definitely out of the podium chase. Unless things improve a lot he will get nowhere.

Originally posted by riffola
Kimi did well to get enough points to take the lead in the WDC.

His first laps battle with Kovalainen was an important step towards finishing 2nd.

Originally posted by Imperial
Hmmm...a pretty boring race weekend all round.

It was good to see somebody else on pole for a change, but a shame that it ultimately counted for not much at all really.

The race was as dull as dishwater and the only interesting thing that happened the entire race was the 'whatever that was all about' incident between Alonso and Hamilton.

As a Brit and Hamilton fan it was a pity on one hand that he scored no points, but good on the other side that the championship battle remains open as we enter the European leg of the season.

A tedious race but good for setting up a decent mid-season and hopefully final part.

like the battle would not be open if hamilton didnt ****up

Kimi still has qualifying issues on some tracks, maybe he was better on Michelin.

He'll be fast at Spa, Monaco, Nurburgring and easily have the measure of Massa there, but in terms of Turkey and Bahrain, Massa likes the desert, Kimi hates the desert, neither have the consisntency over the season as Schumacher did, that is very clear with every passing race.


Kimi must improve qualifying on certain tracks.
But good race by ferrari, strong team result,

BMW and KUBE, good addition.


Alonso and Hamilton accident, interesting.

Looks as if the year will be closer than even 2007. It will come down to the team / individual between Ferrari / Mclaren / BMW who have the least disaster weekends over the year.

1 point seperates team 1 from 2 and team 2 from 3. My bet however would be on Ferrari and Kimi.

Ferrari earned maximum points, will help in WCC fight against Mercedes.

Congratulations to Felipe, though I think everyone knows that he is not really going to win the WDC, but atleast he can run close 2nd with these odd wins. :

Kimi was 'weak', but still got P2.

Kovalinen was anonymous. I think he didn't show the true pace of Mercedes car, if Lewis had a normal start and no accidents, the P3 might have been theirs.

Hamilton was amateurish today. Laughable start (which was really a non-start), ramming Fernando, and then silly gestures to Fisichella for having the audacity to race against him.

Poor start by Kubica, but then I do not think they'd have won today anyway. Heidfeld should study Robert's setup and telemetry for it will make him a better driver.

Button and Coulthard == dumb and dumber.

I was waiting for your thread RA .

Massa completely proved me wrong so good on him for that. Finally off the mark in terms of his championship charge!

Mclaren lost out badly this race losing their lead in both championships. At the moment our pace is that of the third fastest team. BMW has gotten ahead of them and they really need to get their heads down and push for more developments come three weeks time in Spain.

Ferrari easily walked this, they are still a bit ahead of BMW as even with their engines turned down and the BMW's pushing, they were able to pace their way till the end of the race comfortably.

Trulli has been doing really really well, good on him, though I don't care much for Toyota.

JB vs DC, was pretty interesting, did JB lose it when DC closed the door and had to brake hard, or did he lose it, hence unable to do anything when DC closed the door?

Hamilton vs Alonso looks like a mistake on Alonso's part on the corner which led to Hamilton not reacting fast enough to not drive into the back of him.

Watching the scrap between Rosberg and Trulli was fun!

Originally posted by Tcas
BMW is now the second best team.

No, it was just this track and Mclaren weren't at their finest this weekend. To be sure BMW are fast but still a step behind Mclaren. Normal service will resume from next race onwards, rest assured.

Ferrari -

Massa - Controlled the race, outqualified his teammate heavily with more fuel.
Kimi - Poor race by his standard but still did enough for 2nd, takes the lead of the WDC.

BMW -

Kubica - Good race, outfought by Raikkonen.
Heidfeld - Took his chances and had some good pace.

McLaren -

Hamilton - Poor in every way.
Kovaleinen - Quite and didn't show anything special apart from the outstanding start.

Originally posted by SeanValen
Kimi still has qualifying issues on some tracks, maybe he was better on Michelin.

He'll be fast at Spa, Monaco, Nurburgring and easily have the measure of Massa there, but in terms of Turkey and Bahrain, Massa likes the desert, Kimi hates the desert, neither have the consisntency over the season as Schumacher did, that is very clear with every passing race.


Kimi must improve qualifying on certain tracks.
But good race by ferrari, strong team result,

BMW and KUBE, good addition.


Alonso and Hamilton accident, interesting.

your hero retired moveon

What the was Hamilton gesturing to Sato and Fisichella when passing? Should they have just moved over like Davidson did, who I am guessing thought Hamilton came up to lap him?

Originally posted by SeanValen

neither have the consisntency over the season as Schumacher did, that is very clear with every passing race.

No it's not very clear at all if you are not a MS fanboy. The Schumacher consistency is a myth especially during his latter years when his car was not uber dominant like in 2002 and 2004.

I'm not sure this season is going to be as close as the last one. Without the disaster weekend in Australia for Ferrari, they would have been clearly ahead by now.

It will be close for 2nd between McLaren and BMW.

Ferrari.

Massa was great.

Bimmer has great speed as well.

Hamilton's behaviour when passing cars was despicable.

Originally posted by DoubleWDC


No it's not very clear at all if you are not a MS fanboy. The Schumacher consistency is a myth especially during his latter years when his car was not uber dominant like in 2002 and 2004.

lol just name a year except 2003 or 05 one. That were years when Ferrari had problem with B tyres.

Originally posted by primer


No, it was just this track and Mclaren weren't at their finest this weekend. To be sure BMW are fast but still a step behind Mclaren. Normal service will resume from next race onwards, rest assured.

Bmw blew off Mclaren at Sepang also.

It was worth getting up early. Spanish GP should be good. Honestly.

Originally posted by cartman
I have to say hats off to Massa
He dominated Kimi in qualifying and race, won his first race from non-pole position and picked himself up after a difficult start to season.

Kimi Seems to stuggle with this track but picked enought points to take the lead in the WDC
Nice overtake on Kubica!

BMW were VERY STRONG! They spanked McLaren's ass and were right behind Ferrari. Good job from both drivers.
BMW leading the WCC Mario must be proud.


A weekend to forget for Hamilton. His worst race ever.

Agreed, Massa was invincible today, a truely deserved win which couldn't have come sooner for him. BMW were indeed very strong and if they Barcelona update is stronger than Ferrari and Mclaren's, then we might have a 3-way fight this year.
rodlamas, do you still think that Ferrari's management is incompetent and you were right all along throughout the winter?

Good to see Massa won the race, it will give him some confidence.

Congrats to Kimi for leading the driver championship.

Ahnd the BMWs are very strong
I wonder why they put fast laps out of nowhere at last laps?

What happen to Jenson and Lewis?

Originally posted by RSNS
The BMWs are in the hunt, with Kubika ahead of Heidfeld (which does not surprise me)

how is that exactly?
Overall, Heidfeld leads in the WDC
This race, RK lost 2 positions while NH gained 2.
Ahh, Robert has 2 podiums and a pole...
The BMW pair are evenly matched with different skills.
Robert has better raw speed and is quicker than Nick when things go right.
Nick has more racecraft and passing ability, (3 on track this race).
To me, that is the perfect driver pairing....

What a comeback by Massa! I was rooting for him very much to do this, he badly needed it. A fantastic, well deserved win and nobody can say he any more he only wins from pole.

I'm very, very impressed by BMW! To be honest I didn't beleive they would be serious title-contenders this year yet, but I have to revision that opinion now. They are leading in the WCC and Heidfeld is 2nd in the WDC only 3 points off from Kimi. Wow! Well done to Kubica as well!

Massa had a perfect weekend and showed he is able to beat Kimi in a straight fight on some tracks when everything falls into place. Kimi still struggles in Bahrain. Still he always says he likes the track, which is a bit strange. The passes on Kovalainen and Kubica were very important and salvaged him second today.

Kubica was good, which is becoming a habit for him. Heidfeld seems a bit on and off this year. He can be lightning fast for a few laps, but mediocre for the rest of the race.

Hamilton had a crappy start, ran into Alonso and was slow as hell throughout the race, even when he had a clear road. A very bad race from him. Kovalainen solid, but only found good speed on the hard tyre at the end of the race, when it was too late.

It seems the harder tyre was clearly better today. It would've been interesting to see what had happened if one of the top guys started on the hards.

Originally posted by Tcas
Bmw blew off Mclaren at Sepang also.

Just you wait, Mercedes are going to be stronger, they'll be challenging Ferrari for wins and not fighting for P3-P6 against BMW. BMW will keep both these guys honest, let us see.

How are the championship standings?

1 23 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 49 15:52:37 209.062 1:33.193
2 3 Nick Heidfeld BMW 48 15:50:44 208.231 1:33.565
3 2 Felipe Massa Ferrari 38 15:34:12 208.153 1:33.600
4 1 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 35 15:29:34 207.911 1:33.709
5 4 Robert Kubica BMW 55 16:01:39 207.765 1:33.775
6 7 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 57 16:05:37 207.109 1:34.072
7 11 Jarno Trulli Toyota 45 15:46:23 206.819 1:34.204
8 10 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 51 15:55:56 206.597 1:34.305
9 12 Timo Glock Toyota 56 16:04:16 205.503 1:34.807
10 17 Rubens Barrichello Honda 40 15:38:29 205.399 1:34.855
11 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 56 16:04:43 204.963 1:35.057
12 6 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 31 15:24:22 204.808 1:35.129
13 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 35 15:30:24 204.668 1:35.194
14 19 Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 45 15:48:10 204.389 1:35.324
15 14 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 33 15:27:41 204.369 1:35.333
16 9 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 43 15:45:18 204.331 1:35.351
17 8 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 30 15:22:33 204.155 1:35.433
18 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Ferrari 55 16:05:16 204.136 1:35.442
19 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 25 15:14:42 203.969 1:35.520
20 18 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 56 16:05:56 203.180 1:35.891
21 16 Jenson Button Honda 11 14:52:27 202.686 1:36.125

fisi faster then both renaults

Originally posted by The Big Guns
JB vs DC, was pretty interesting, did JB lose it when DC closed the door and had to brake hard, or did he lose it, hence unable to do anything when DC closed the door?

In his interview with ITV, JB said that in driver briefings, they had agreed not to move around in the braking zones.
So the story is... JB saw a gap and dived for it, but in the braking zone, DC moved across leaving JB nowhere to go except to call off the overtaking move and just start trying to avoid DC instead.... but as we saw it didnt work.

In some minor defence of DC, drivers have said modern day F1 mirrors are useless.

PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS



The Bahrain Grand Prix

Bahrain International Circuit, Sakhir, Bahrain;

57 laps; 308.238km;

Weather: Sunny.



Classified:



Pos  Driver		Team					  Time

 1.  Massa		 Ferrari			   (B)  1h31:06.970

 2.  Raikkonen	 Ferrari			   (B)  +	 3.339

 3.  Kubica		BMW Sauber			(B)  +	 4.998

 4.  Heidfeld	  BMW Sauber			(B)  +	 8.409

 5.  Kovalainen	McLaren-Mercedes	  (B)  +	26.789

 6.  Trulli		Toyota				(B)  +	41.314

 7.  Webber		Red Bull-Renault	  (B)  +	45.473

 8.  Rosberg	   Williams-Toyota	   (B)  +	55.889

 9.  Glock		 Toyota				(B)  +  1:09.500

10.  Alonso		Renault			   (B)  +  1:17.181

11.  Barrichello   Honda				 (B)  +  1:17.862

12.  Fisichella	Force India-Ferrari   (B)  +	 1 lap

13.  Hamilton	  McLaren-Mercedes	  (B)  +	 1 lap

14.  Nakajima	  Williams-Toyota	   (B)  +	 1 lap

15.  Bourdais	  Toro Rosso-Ferrari	(B)  +	 1 lap

16.  Davidson	  Super Aguri-Honda	 (B)  +	 1 lap

17.  Sato		  Super Aguri-Honda	 (B)  +	 1 lap

18.  Coulthard	 Red Bull-Renault	  (B)  +	 1 lap

19.  Sutil		 Force India-Ferrari   (B)  +	2 laps



Fastest lap: Kovalainen, 1:33.193



Not classified/retirements:



Driver		Team					  On lap

Piquet		Renault			   (B)	42

Button		Honda				 (B)	20

Vettel		Toro Rosso-Ferrari	(B)	1





World Championship standings, round 3:				



Drivers:					Constructors:			 

 1.  Raikkonen	 19		1.  BMW Sauber			 30

 2.  Heidfeld	  16		2.  Ferrari				29

 3.  Hamilton	  14		3.  McLaren-Mercedes	   28

 4.  Kovalainen	14		4.  Williams-Toyota		10

 5.  Kubica		14		5.  Toyota				  8

 6.  Massa		 10		6.  Renault				 6

 7.  Trulli		 8		7.  Red Bull-Renault		4

 8.  Rosberg		7		8.  Toro Rosso-Ferrari	  2

 9.  Alonso		 6	   

10.  Webber		 4	   

11.  Nakajima	   3	   

12.  Bourdais	   2	   

	   

All timing unofficial

Originally posted by tormave
What the was Hamilton gesturing to Sato and Fisichella when passing?

Heh, I think that was just Formula 1's class system in evidence, teams like Mclaren etc are clearly 'superior' in more ways than one to Magma Aguri, Force India etc. No wonder the driver might feel that way too.

"Move outta my way, I'm Lewis Hamilton you fools!"

FM has been FM this season: quicker than anyone (especially over one lap) but with non-negligible mistakes added.
Congratulations on today's victory, if only he could drive with such consistency every time.
KR did the second best thing he should with the dominant car - however, in any case I expect him to be the no. 1 favourit for the title because of his greater consistency.

BMW has an excellent pair of drivers (the best of the moment, IMHO, with RK in particular showing the most of all drivers so far) and a very solid car - let's hope they make the final step towards the top - and it shows in the WCC table.

McLaren today, IMHO, showed the signs of the things to come. I was not surprised by their (and especially LH's) poor showing. McLaren made a big mistake with favouring LH last year, they already paid the price in 2007 and will pay a great deal more this year.

I'm sorry for FA but I don't know whether and how much his car was damaged. Obviously, Michelin was a very significant part of Renault's success.

All in all, a good race considering how dominant the F2008 is.

Originally posted by alfa1


In some minor defence of DC, drivers have said modern day F1 mirrors are useless.

As Button said, though, if Coulthard hadn't looked in his mirrors the incident would've been avoided. Coulthard's blocking is becoming ridiculous. Can't see him racing in F1 next year.

Originally posted by race addicted
BMW have definately had a faster race-car than McLaren here. Over one lap with fresh tires I'd say their car is as fast as Ferrari's.

I'm not so sure about that. Massa had way 3-4 laps more fuel than Kubica and set virtually the same time in Q3 (with traffic, apparently), and was streets ahead in Q2. I think we can agree that Massa was representative of Ferrari's pace this weekend.

Ferrari are looking ominous now that they've got to grips with their reliability. Its great to see BMW genuinely beat McLaren, but they both better hope that their Barcelona upgrade delivers more than Ferrari's. Otherwise, Ferrari are going to dominate.

I think JB brakes too late and to avoid hitting DC he took evasive action which was to dive to the inside but then DC took the racing line and that was it. JB made an error.

funny to see that the Beemers and the Macs set their fastest time on the hard tires, and the Ferrari's on the soft.
Ferrari probably wasnt pushing very hard the last stint but it makes you wonder why the BMW;s and McLarens did not do 2 stints in the harder compount...

http://www.fia.com/b...ngp/timing.html

lap chart up....bmw are very consistent apart from stint 2 they were just about ferrari's speed in stint 1 and 3

Originally posted by SuperDaan
funny to see that the Beemers and the Macs set their fastest time on the hard tires, and the Ferrari's on the soft.
Ferrari probably wasnt pushing very hard the last stint but it makes you wonder why the BMW;s and McLarens did not do 2 stints in the harder compount...

Its because they had light-ish fuel loads.
Kova came in the pits with 9 laps to go...

Originally posted by SuperDaan
funny to see that the Beemers and the Macs set their fastest time on the hard tires, and the Ferrari's on the soft.
Ferrari probably wasnt pushing very hard the last stint but it makes you wonder why the BMW;s and McLarens did not do 2 stints in the harder compount...

I thought the same thing -- weird how everyone left the hards for the final stint.

Originally posted by metz

The BMW pair are evenly matched with different skills.

Nuff said, really. Excellent pairing

Originally posted by Lada Lover
I think JB brakes too late and to avoid hitting DC he took evasive action which was to dive to the inside but then DC took the racing line and that was it. JB made an error.

no, it's again DC's brainfade, 2 times in 3 race. you can't keep driving into people who are A LOT on your inside
i really hope he gets a race ban

Well the race was boring in most part with most entertainment provided by the Brits.

Have to congratulate Massa for recovering well from 2 bad races.
Kudos also to BMW - they really are troubling the front now me thinks.
Maclaren need to pull their socks up sharpish - thats for sure.

I'd also like to understand a bit more of what happened in the Alonso/Hamy incident. I must admit this was definitely a race to forget for Lewis after that. He was never going to make up the deficit. I give him credit for trying, even if he was a bit hot headed about it.

Also the Button/Coulthard incident. Button was definitely quicker than Coulthard but it just needed a bit of co-operation from the driver in front for an overtake to be successful, which DC clearly was not in the mood for. Jenson's explanation of the incident was clear enough. He went for a gap on the inside early in the corner but no sooner had he committed to the move than DC moved across into what was the gap, leaving Jenson with too much speed and nowhere to go. Thats why he slightly lost control under heavy braking and could not avoid a clash. Jenson also said something about discussions in drivers briefings about agreement not to move across to block another driver in the braking zone, which he felt DC had done. I've never heard that before. Any opinions out there? Did DC move across in the braking zone or did he take his legitimate racing line and just not see or expect to see Jenson trying a move there?

Anyway in general I'm disappointed with DC this year so far.

The other thing I'd like to know is what caused Jenson's and DC's punctures on the first lap as really it was that those that destroyed both driver's race.


Of other drivers today. Good drives by Fisichella and Webber.

Originally posted by SchuOz
Its because they had light-ish fuel loads.
Kova came in the pits with 9 laps to go...

True, but the BMWs set some very fast times after their final pitstop (with some fuel) than just before (with little fuel). It could just be a case of fresh vs. old tyres, but then perhaps the hard tyres would have been more consistent? Odd that no one tried that strategy.

Originally posted by alfa1
In some minor defence of DC, drivers have said modern day F1 mirrors are useless.

Well, if you look at the replays you can clearly see David was very aware of Jenson, and reacting accordingly