Originally posted by Raelene
Josta
amazing then isn't it that the two biggest scandals to rock F1 involved Englishmen/english teams
Like the scandal involving the Ferrari employee you mean?
Ferrari's success
Started by
Mauseri
, Apr 27 2008 15:36
129 replies to this topic
#101
Josta
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 00:23
Like the scandal involving the Ferrari employee you mean?
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#102
Scudetto
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 01:44
Originally posted by Josta
It's a good job that it didn't happen in Maranello. Given the Italian tendancy towards corruption, if the situation was opposite, it would never have been discovered.
Attempting to butress a weak argument with an even weaker ethnic stereotype proves nothing other than abject stupidity and ignorance.
#103
Raelene
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 01:46
Like the scandal involving the Ferrari employee you mean?
no =- the one where McLaren used a mole in Ferrari to get information... and use that information
#104
giacomo
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:32
The British Ferrari employee who served as a mole for a British team, to be more precise.Originally posted by Josta
Like the scandal involving the Ferrari employee you mean?
#105
giacomo
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:34
I see.Originally posted by Josta
It's a good job that it didn't happen in Maranello. Given the Italian tendancy towards corruption, if the situation was opposite, it would never have been discovered.
So you dislike Switzerland because of their speeding policy, and you dislike Italy because of their tendency towards corruption.
How about other countries? What do you think about Germany, Spain, France?
#106
StefanV
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:50
Britain and British people are the source of all evil are they not?Originally posted by giacomo
The British Ferrari employee who served as a mole for a British team, to be more precise.
I find your attitude extremely disturbing actually. Do you really believe the things you post or are you just having a laugh? Wake up! Being narrow minded and xenophobic is NOT a demand for being a Ferrari fan. It is perfectly possible to like the cars, the F1 team, Italy and Ducati WITHOUT hating everything else.
#107
MichaelPM
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 11:00
Best car clearly, best drivers is very debatable.
The way I see it,
Replace Kimi in Australia with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
Replace Massa in general with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
The way I see it,
Replace Kimi in Australia with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
Replace Massa in general with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
#108
giacomo
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 11:10
You're right, I am having a laugh about the xenophobic British McLaren fanboys here. Does that make me xenophobic and narrow minded?Originally posted by StefanV
I find your attitude extremely disturbing actually. Do you really believe the things you post or are you just having a laugh? Wake up! Being narrow minded and xenophobic is NOT a demand for being a Ferrari fan. It is perfectly possible to like the cars, the F1 team, Italy and Ducati WITHOUT hating everything else.
I don't think so.
#109
Italiano Tifoso
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 11:17
Alonso... maybe, but Lewis definitely not, both lewis and Kimi have had one really bad race each.Originally posted by MichaelPM
Best car clearly, best drivers is very debatable.
The way I see it,
Replace Kimi in Australia with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
Replace Massa in general with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
Ferrari's success is down to the entire package, yes even the cleaning lady who sweeps the floors!
People have yet to understand the unity within this team, this is what keeps them together and helps them to navigate and bounce back from bad weekends.
#110
StefanV
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 11:26
It all depends if you mean what you write or not. But you are simply trolling?Originally posted by giacomo
You're right, I am having a laugh about the xenophobic British McLaren fanboys here. Does that make me xenophobic and narrow minded?
I don't think so.
And WTF is "British fanboys"?
#111
quickerthanlight
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 11:50
i feel the same way.Originally posted by wordsby
Just to get back to the original OP, my answer would be :
PEOPLE
it is only people who design the cars, build the cars, fix the cars, tweak the cars, drive the cars
You can have the best car in the world but without people you can do nothing and without good management of those people, they cannnot achieve.
So, I believe the Ferrari success is actually down to its team strengths
#112
Spunout
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 12:13
Originally posted by MichaelPM
The way I see it,
Replace Kimi in Australia with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
Replace Massa in general with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
Replace Alonso or Hamilton with Räikkönen in 2007 and McLaren would have WDC.
Pointless speculation, you cannot know how driver X would have performed in car Y.
PS. I am wondering how Alonso or Hamilton was going to overcome that engine failure in Australia? I know they spend lots of time at gym, but pushing an F1 car for few extra laps sounds far fetched to me.
#113
Arn
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 12:24
Originally posted by Spunout
Replace Alonso or Hamilton with Räikkönen in 2007 and McLaren would have WDC.
Pointless speculation, you cannot know how driver X would have performed in car Y.
PS. I am wondering how Alonso or Hamilton was going to overcome that engine failure in Australia? I know they spend lots of time at gym, but pushing an F1 car for few extra laps sounds far fetched to me.
I dont know how Alonso would do it but maybe Hamilton had a tuned crane hidden somewhere at Albert Park.;)
#114
FizzyJerk
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 12:41
Originally posted by Scudetto
Attempting to butress a weak argument with an even weaker ethnic stereotype proves nothing other than abject stupidity and ignorance.
#115
MichaelPM
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 13:41
Kimi scored 1 point still, take away the needless spins and rally cross he would have been higher up the grid and completed more laps giving a much greater chance of scoring 2 points instead.Originally posted by Spunout
Replace Alonso or Hamilton with Räikkönen in 2007 and McLaren would have WDC.
Pointless speculation, you cannot know how driver X would have performed in car Y.
PS. I am wondering how Alonso or Hamilton was going to overcome that engine failure in Australia? I know they spend lots of time at gym, but pushing an F1 car for few extra laps sounds far fetched to me.
#116
HSJ
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 16:35
Originally posted by MichaelPM
Best car clearly, best drivers is very debatable.
No more than the FACT that FA is a driver who drives below the level of a competent rookie. Below the level of Massa, for example. He'd score less points for Ferrari than Massa is scoring. Of course we don't know that for sure anymore than we know for sure anything, but those are the odds based on teammate comparisons.
#117
Digitaldrug
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 17:08
Originally posted by HSJ
No more than the FACT that FA is a driver who drives below the level of a competent rookie. Below the level of Massa, for example. He'd score less points for Ferrari than Massa is scoring. Of course we don't know that for sure anymore than we know for sure anything, but those are the odds based on teammate comparisons.
Team mate comparisions? How does getting matched by Hamilton equate to driving below Massa level, especially considering Hamilton beat Massa easily last year? Hamilton and Massa are not related but Alonso and Massa are as they shared a team mate and in back to back years also so the comparision is extremly strong. Massa was thrashed by Fisichella in 04 while Alonso thrashed fisichella in 05. We are not talking a few tenths here, where you could debate the issue. The difference between the drivers was massive. Enormous. So using your very own logic we must assume Alonso would score more points than Kimi at Ferrari. Those are the odds based on the team mate comparisions, and unlike yours its not a random fan boy comparision, its a genuine one.
#118
Josta
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 17:43
Originally posted by giacomo
I see.
So you dislike Switzerland because of their speeding policy, and you dislike Italy because of their tendency towards corruption.
How about other countries? What do you think about Germany, Spain, France?
I have also lived in Germany, and I can say that I dislike the fact that Germans tend to have no sense of humour. French people smell and they eat horses. I like Spain though
#119
Johny Bravo
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 17:48
Originally posted by StefanV
that biggest part of last seasons championships for Ferrari [...] was guy in a copy shop.
Spot on. Without that copy shop guy a bunch of shitboxes [aka Mclaren] could have cheated their way to last seasons championships.
One has also realize that there are thousands of copy shop guys around the world, but they are useless without stolen Ferrari data in their hands that they have to copy for McheatLaren.
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#120
Johny Bravo
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 17:53
Originally posted by MichaelPM
Best car clearly, best drivers is very debatable.
The way I see it,
Replace Kimi in Australia with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
Replace Massa in general with Alonso or Hamilton and Ferrari would have more points.
The way I see it.
Replace Massa with Alonso and Domenicali would have been blackmailed already by Fernando.
#121
pasadena
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 17:54
What about KR then who despite being given points by his teammate only managed to score 1 point more than a rookie despite driving better car in 2007?Originally posted by HSJ
No more than the FACT that FA is a driver who drives below the level of a competent rookie. Below the level of Massa, for example. He'd score less points for Ferrari than Massa is scoring. Of course we don't know that for sure anymore than we know for sure anything, but those are the odds based on teammate comparisons.
#122
dutra
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 19:19
Best car and best driver, on the singular.
#123
britishtrident
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 20:53
Record number of races won in the court room
Postlethwaite Williams Garage break in
Record for number of number one drivers who walked ou mid-season
Record number of broken verbal agreements
Postlethwaite Williams Garage break in
Record for number of number one drivers who walked ou mid-season
Record number of broken verbal agreements
#124
Josta
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 21:32
Originally posted by Johny Bravo
The way I see it.
Replace Massa with Alonso and Domenicali would have been blackmailed already by Fernando.
You obviously presume that Ferrari have done something wrong that can be blackmailed for.
#125
Devero
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 21:45
Originally posted by HSJ
He'd score less points for Ferrari than Massa is scoring. Of course we don't know that for sure anymore than we know for sure anything, but those are the odds based on teammate comparisons.
Are you really sure that Alonso is a poorer driver than Massa?
Not even on par, but even worse.
I think it is quite utterly ridiculous and a bit too much.
I think it is quite difficult for you to unexpectedly find any healthy space between Kimi and Massa and thus you have to lift Felipe`s abilities on a level he is not at now and very much unlikely will be let alone was.
Your post is so crappy and deceitful that I worry that you are not OK mentally.
Alonso and Massa cannot be even compared. Even if we forget titles, statistics and whatever else by chance.
They are in different leagues as F1 drivers ablities and qualities are concerned.
#126
Mauseri
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 22:36
Hamilton had more luck. For example, the SC ruined everyone's race in Montreal, just the race, which happened to go well for Hamilton.Originally posted by pasadena
What about KR then who despite being given points by his teammate only managed to score 1 point more than a rookie despite driving better car in 2007?
#127
KaraLeanne
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Posted 01 May 2008 - 22:56
Originally posted by MichaelPM
Kimi scored 1 point still, take away the needless spins and rally cross he would have been higher up the grid and completed more laps giving a much greater chance of scoring 2 points instead.
Bourdais, the next driver ahead in the classification, completed 2 more laps than Kimi and, considering that Kimi was on the lead lap at the time the engine quit, how do you figure it was possible to score more points? And that's just ignoring the face that both Alonso and Hamilton (as with all the drivers) have brutal races from time to time so what guarantee is there that either of them would have done any better starting from 15th (which was also do to a technical failure).
#128
pasadena
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Posted 02 May 2008 - 08:15
Hamilton did have more luck, true. He was also favoured within his team. KR had overall the best car and help from his teammate during the last part of the season.Originally posted by micra_k10
Hamilton had more luck. For example, the SC ruined everyone's race in Montreal, just the race, which happened to go well for Hamilton.
Who didn't have any of the aforementioned advantages and yet scored 109 points? FA. Although 2007 was a peculiar year when noone performed what one could really call excellently, taking everything into account, FA's performance overshadowed both LH and KR...just as he keeps doing from 2005 onwards.
#129
F1Fanatic.co.uk
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Posted 02 May 2008 - 09:02
Looking at Ferrari over the past few years you have to say it's remarkable how they had an enormous, wholesale change of many of the major personnel - Schumacher, Brawn, Todt and the rest - and yet they are still at the front of the field. That's very impressive.
I think their success is largely down to the car simply because driver performance counts for relatively little in F1 these days. Kimi Raikkonen is good but he wouldn't be winning races in a Renault or a Red Bull would he?
I think their success is largely down to the car simply because driver performance counts for relatively little in F1 these days. Kimi Raikkonen is good but he wouldn't be winning races in a Renault or a Red Bull would he?
#130
FizzyJerk
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Posted 02 May 2008 - 11:24
Originally posted by britishtrident
Record number of races won in the court room
Postlethwaite Williams Garage break in
Record for number of number one drivers who walked ou mid-season
Record number of broken verbal agreements
