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multi layered track

Started by Josta , May 11 2008 18:36

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32 replies to this topic

#1 Josta

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 18:36

I have had this idea for a while. What would you think about a track where you have choices as to which way to go. In other words, every sector has a choice of 2 routes that a driver could take. No matter which choice you take should take the same amount of time, but if you think you can get away from dirty air to put in a blinding sector, you choose route B instead of route A. It could shake up races a bit, and add some more strategy choice directly to the driver.

#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 18:39

Just like there's really only one ideal line, you'd struggle to make two options that are identical in laptime.

#3 Fatgadget

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 18:45

Might as well go watch a game of chess.

#4 Burai

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 19:44

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Just like there's really only one ideal line, you'd struggle to make two options that are identical in laptime.

Basically. Sepang proved that you can make the track 30 miles wide and everyone will still only want to stick to one car-wide patch of tarmac.

Plus what do you do when you have to merge the sectors back together again? F1 drivers can't exactly check their blind spot over their shoulder.

#5 Josta

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:05

Originally posted by Burai

Basically. Sepang proved that you can make the track 30 miles wide and everyone will still only want to stick to one car-wide patch of tarmac.

Plus what do you do when you have to merge the sectors back together again? F1 drivers can't exactly check their blind spot over their shoulder.

Thats what would make it more interesting

Seriously though, any problems can be overcome. You just do the same as with the pit exit with the white line indicating that you have to stay to your side. This isn't about sticking to a racing line, since there would at each juncture clearly be 2 racing lines going down different roads.

#6 StefanV

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:25

Originally posted by Burai
Plus what do you do when you have to merge the sectors back together again? F1 drivers can't exactly check their blind spot over their shoulder.

Duh! Traffic lights of course! Imagine four lanes and the cars line up waiting for green, rev their engines, look nonchalantly over their shoulder to the other guy while their girlfriends giggle nervously. That is F1 as I know it!

#7 Josta

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:27

Originally posted by StefanV

Duh! Traffic lights of course! Imagine four lanes and the cars line up waiting for green, rev their engines, look nonchalantly over their shoulder to the other guy while their girlfriends giggle nervously. That is F1 as I know it!

How do people emerge from the pit lane without looking over their shoulders?

#8 StefanV

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:31

Originally posted by Josta

How do people emerge from the pit lane without looking over their shoulders?

I was joking. This idea of your would never work, for many reasons. I think you should admit you was joking as well and we can forget all about this ;)

#9 Josta

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:40

Originally posted by StefanV

I was joking. This idea of your would never work, for many reasons. I think you should admit you was joking as well and we can forget all about this ;)

Name the reasons, then I can debunk them

#10 Kooper

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:44

Originally posted by Josta

Name the reasons, then I can debunk them

4 words

David Coulthard & Gincarlo Fisichella

#11 Burai

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:44

Originally posted by Josta

Thats what would make it more interesting

Seriously though, any problems can be overcome. You just do the same as with the pit exit with the white line indicating that you have to stay to your side. This isn't about sticking to a racing line, since there would at each juncture clearly be 2 racing lines going down different roads.

Except that the pitlane doesn't have cars belting out of it at racing speed.

#12 Josta

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 20:47

Originally posted by Burai

Except that the pitlane doesn't have cars belting out of it at racing speed.

So what? If there is a clear divide which cars need to stick to, they will. By the time the white line disappears both drivers will be aware of each other.

#13 Gecko

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 21:05

Whether the idea could be made to work is not an issue, it is probably workable. I just fail to see any merit to it. It would be a completely useless gimmick, and we've already had too many of those in F1 recently.

#14 rolf123

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 21:19

It is possible with some intelligent design work.

Remember the run off at the exit of La Source? There used to be 2 ways to take that corner.

I have thought about this with a banked low speed turn. Either go the long way around or take the shorter route but make it low grip using artificial means.

Problem is with development of cars, eventually one route becomes faster than another as the cars develop each year.

#15 StefanV

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 21:21

Originally posted by Josta

Name the reasons, then I can debunk them

If we take the number one reason first: How likely is it that it is possible to create two alternative routes that gives exactly the same laptime? Not easy. One part will be faster and that is the route everyone would take and the result would be... that the faster route becomes even faster. And you want the guy that can not pass on track normally to take the slower route, that is green because it is slow, and drive it so fast that he can make a pass? Not likely to happen often.

Second problem is money. You can not have only a corner or two because you need it long enough to make it possible to gain at least 0.7-0.8 seconds which seem to be the closest as cars can drive nowadays. That is at the very least 1 km of track. You need all the runoff as on the "normal" track and all the safety. For safety things, it would be more difficult to access the inner part.

There is other reasons, but those is enough I think
-Money. Building an extra kilometer or two, and maintaining it, is expensive
-Not identical. One section will always be faster so the expensive extra piece of track will be used maybe once/year.

#16 RedBaron

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 21:47

Hot Wheels leads the way!

#17 F575 GTC

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 21:49

Originally posted by RedBaron
Hot Wheels leads the way!

I get the feeling Josta's just got back from seeing Speed Racer at the Cinema :lol:

#18 BootLace

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 22:58

Assuming you could make alternate routes that had similar times to travel (easy example would be like a roundabout, some cars go clockwise, some anti-clockwise onto an exit the opposite side), I find it hard to see how you'd be able make sure that the timings would remain consistent through the length of a race (you'd only need one route to be slightly more popular for the advantage of rubbering in to become a factor).

Even my simple example of the psuedo-roundabout is flawed, in that it would put the cars through different loadings which would among other things have significant impact on tyre wear and may well make one route always preferable from the point of view of maintaining optimum car balance over a duration. I think trying to make different routes with identical timings and loads is impossible by definition.

Possibly also worth considering the potential safety issues of multiple routes beyond just those of merging. e.g. spinning off on an inner route and broadsiding a vehicle on an outer route. Whilst potentially preventable, I can see it posing significant difficulties in the construction of the tracks.

Ignoring the issues, what benefits would it have? It'd only allow cars to pass in pretty much the same way as they currently do in the pits, except they'd have the opportunity to do it once/twice a lap, rather than over the entire race duration. The chance for more frequent passing may sound initially attractive, but the reality is that cars only need to overtake because they're out of position relative to their performance level. All multiple routes would do is resolve these anomalies earlier, but without the excitement of cars fighting wheel to wheel over the same piece of tarmac.

#19 bogi

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 23:35

With today's regulations this would be great :rotfl:

#20 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 23:39

Iv often had similar thoughts good thread. Fightinh over the same piece of tarmac is ideal but in F1 its so hard.

I think having multiple lines on the same piece of tarmac would be better acheived through camber than splitting the track in two.

#21 Lada Lover

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 00:46

I would like F1 to have a giant slot-car type track where you have to stay in your own lane. Get rid of 10-12 cars as they are just filler anyways. The track would be the same length for all cars.

#22 pingu666

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 02:11

take out the first chicane at monza..., dont race at barca...

#23 djellison

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 07:03

Was someone drinking too much when they were playing Mario Kart Wii?

I mean, I like nothing better than a lap around Maple Treeway in Toad's offroad romper.....but saying that's the road F1 should go down is just madness.

#24 Imperial

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 08:25

Originally posted by Josta
I have had this idea for a while. What would you think about a track where you have choices as to which way to go. In other words, every sector has a choice of 2 routes that a driver could take. No matter which choice you take should take the same amount of time, but if you think you can get away from dirty air to put in a blinding sector, you choose route B instead of route A. It could shake up races a bit, and add some more strategy choice directly to the driver.

Because a sport already exists for drivers who wish to just set fast times: Rally.

#25 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 14:42

I had an idea for a situation where you'd run one track for X number of laps, and then have it connect to another track for the remainder.

You'd have a wider variety of strategies, and it would alleviate the possibility of "boring" races by altering the venue in the middle. Say have a circuit race inside an oval/stadium, ala Daytona, then have it leave that course to an outside street circuit.

#26 StefanV

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 15:22

Seems like F1 is really boring people to death.

#27 CaptnMark

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 17:48

Originally posted by Lada Lover
I would like F1 to have a giant slot-car type track where you have to stay in your own lane. Get rid of 10-12 cars as they are just filler anyways. The track would be the same length for all cars.

20 layers of track, one above the other

#28 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 15:23

There probably aren't any reasons why you couldn't.

There are a million reasons why you shouldn't. Most of which are "it would be really dumb."

But that didn't stop them trying aggregate qualifying did it?

#29 flyboy

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 17:59

At first I thought that this was goofy but then I remembered the first corner at Cleveland... airport circuit, VERY wide corner, and you would get 5 or 6 wide into the corner, especially on the first lap. Lots of collisions though...