Button in the wet :up:

Hang on, hang on. He aquaplaned at Nurburg, so hardly his fault, and his suspension went at Fuji, so not his fault either. Plus the Honda is crap, which, guess what, isn't his fault!

I thought he did okay, considering he had two VERY early stops. From dead last to finishing where he started. Better than not finishing at all, or coming last.

Originally posted by TickTickBooom
Hang on, hang on. He aquaplaned at Nurburg, so hardly his fault, and his suspension went at Fuji, so not his fault either. Plus the Honda is crap, which, guess what, isn't his fault!

I thought he did okay, considering he had two VERY early stops. From dead last to finishing where he started. Better than not finishing at all, or coming last.

having a hard time finding positives

*sigh*

Is it that obvious?

Unfortunately for Jenson, Monaco is a terrible place to have a wet race, because passing is still horribly difficult even if you are 3 seconds a lap faster than someone. Monaco in the wet is a place when mid-pack teams can pick up points by trying to stay out of trouble and waiting for attrition. Button, especially in the wet, is very aggressive with overtaking, hence the collision with Heidfeld (who had the worst day of his career, IMO). Hopefully we'll have another wet race soon on a proper track.

Originally posted by Risil


There was a little overtaking at Mirabeau, but with Heidfeld blocking like a crazy there, Alonso wasn't coming through. If you block, the least you can expect is for the faster guy behind to run in the back of you IMO.

alonso should have followed heidfeld's example

in 2005, alonso had really crappy worn rear tyres, and both heidfeld and webber were behind, for their overtakes, the made the move at the first mirabeau pulling in close behind alonso, then keeping close through loews, through the second mirabeau and portier and then remaining close through the tunnel, jumped him at the chicane. Heidfeld made it cleaner than webber, although webber had the disadvantage of alonso knowing what was coming.

Same race trulli tried to jump someone at the hairpin, got flung up from the curb iirc.

Originally posted by tkulla
Hopefully we'll have another wet race soon on a proper track.

Monaco is a proper track. In these conditions it's probably the hardest on the entire calendar.

It didn't look hard though, and I think that's the difference. It looked like one long formation lap to my eyes. Monaco is the only track where cars look slow, and that was magnified a million times yesterday.

Originally posted by Digitaldrug



Heidfeld is a slow clumsy fool. Alonso tried to over take him a lap before on the inside and Nick closed the door very late and was just being a hazzard out there. When your that slow in that situation you should drive a little fairer because it just results in what happened one lap later. He did give Button any room either he just drove like no one was around him.

Huhhhh
Heidfeld worked his way up from 12th to 5th. 5 passes on merrit. With a 1 stop strategy, a podium was possible.
Alonso on the other hand, well, he appologized for his move.
"We were expecting more water. Then we started to lose too much time. It was desperation. I tried to overtake Heidfeld in a place where you can't overtake. In Monaco you usually can't pass anywhere and neither there.
"So it was my fault. From there we needed a miracle," added the Spaniard, who went on to finish in 10th position.
But you go ahead and bash away...

Well.. Rubens managed to overtake Nakajima and Webber without a colission, on the chicane after the tunnel and miraculously in Nogets... Wouldnt call that running away from attrition.. He had problems with Trulli Chicane,tough...

Originally posted by HP
Monaco is a proper track. In these conditions it's probably the hardest on the entire calendar.

Actually, it's not a proper track. It's a street circuit, and one from a different era. That said, I still love the place.

Originally posted by TickTickBooom
Hang on, hang on. He aquaplaned at Nurburg, so hardly his fault, and his suspension went at Fuji, so not his fault either. Plus the Honda is crap, which, guess what, isn't his fault!

I thought he did okay, considering he had two VERY early stops. From dead last to finishing where he started. Better than not finishing at all, or coming last.

Yeah, I concede, but I'm still very frustrated with his performance.

Originally posted by Risil
There was a little overtaking at Mirabeau, but with Heidfeld blocking like a crazy there, Alonso wasn't coming through.

It would require quite good driving talents at both wheels to squeeze two formula one cars side-by-side through a dry Mirabeau corner parading at walking pace. Every year someone tries a pass there and it end in tears 95% of the time. You have to be at least side-by-side before turn-in to have any chance and even then the other car needs to basically come to a full stop to avoid an accident.

The idea of Heidfeld "blocking" there is just hilarious - he turned in because that's what racing drivers tend to do when the track goes left and straight ahead is a pretty solid steel fence. In any other corner in the F1 circuit a telepath driver knowing Alonso has just had a massive brain fade could leave a car width of room in the apex, but in this one - especially at racing speed and in the wet, that is simply not possible without hitting the barriers yourself.

Originally posted by tormave

It would require quite good driving talents at both wheels to squeeze two formula one cars side-by-side through a dry Mirabeau corner parading at walking pace. Every year someone tries a pass there and it end in tears 95% of the time. You have to be at least side-by-side before turn-in to have any chance and even then the other car needs to basically come to a full stop to avoid an accident.

from F1 CE, at the high mirabeau (i.e. before the hairpin) the exit of mirabeau is seriously tight, the barrier justs right into the racing line, ad into that and the fact the most of the drivers use the gutter to pull them round, not a good spot.

the low mirabeau according to brundle they tightened up the exit, so that would be an even dumber place to pass.

Originally posted by tormave


The idea of Heidfeld "blocking" there is just hilarious - he turned in because that's what racing drivers tend to do when the track goes left and straight ahead is a pretty solid steel fence. In any other corner in the F1 circuit a telepath driver knowing Alonso has just had a massive brain fade could leave a car width of room in the apex, but in this one - especially at racing speed and in the wet, that is simply not possible without hitting the barriers yourself.

IIRC a couple of laps earlier when Alonso had a much better drive out of the previous corner, Heidfeld simply held the inside all the way through. By no means the quickest way through the corner, but being as tight as it is, there wasn't an alternative line that wouldn't involve the barriers. Ultimately it doesn't matter though, as neither of them were exactly heading for a great result.

Originally posted by TickTickBooom
Plus the Honda is crap, which, guess what, isn't his fault!

Umm, I'm not trying to bash Button here, but he's been at B.A.R/Honda for quite a while, is supposedly their lead driver, and should, by now, be a n integral part of the team that produces and develops the car from the first test to the last race. So, I'd have to say he's got to take a little bit of responsibility for a crap car.

Originally posted by Risil
Ultimately it doesn't matter though, as neither of them were exactly heading for a great result.

We'll never know.
Heidfeld was a solid 5th with the right tyres and lots of fuel on a 1 stopper.
After the Alonso incident, the car was damaged and uncompetitive.
Guys like Ralf would have just parked it to save embarasment.
Nick stayed in, hoping attrition or SC luck might get him a point.
Looked bad, but was the right thing to do.

I think he is a very good wet-weather driver. But of late he doesn't have the machinery to score points and so he thinks of wet races as his only point scoring chance. Hence he tries a bit too hard and ends up in collisions he would normally avoid on a dry track.

Button has been abysmal in the wet so far this year. RB has upped his game considerably.