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Donington Park

Started by ex Rhodie racer , Jun 18 2008 07:36

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56 replies to this topic

#1 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 07:36

Would Donington be a realistic alternative as a venue for the F1 British GP if Silverstone were to be ditched? Rumours suggest it could happen. What is it with Bernie and Silverstone? They seem to have a long running feud.

#2 Perigee

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 09:01

Would require massive investment to bring it up to F1 standards, starting with the pitlane buildings. It could be done, but I doubt there would be the motivation unless Bernie guaranteed them a GP for x number of years, and then, of course, there's finding the money, not to mention planning permission, which can take years and years.

Cramer curves in the wet though :up:

#3 roadie

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 09:38

There are some great corners, but I think the track is a bit short and too bumpy for this seasons F1 cars. That's my view from racing round it in GTR 2 anyway.

#4 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 11:12

Its a lovely track but its too short for F1, not enough run off areas and the paddock is tiny and distinctly lo-tech

#5 Owen

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 11:25

Monaco, Monza, Istanbul, Singapore, Shanghai, Fuji... Donington. Hmm. Can it really compete with these?

#6 Garagiste

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 11:39

Interlagos, Magny Cours, Hungaroring ..... Should be about the circuit, not the bling.

#7 Josta

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 11:42

Ayrton Senna has won 100% of the F1 races at Donington.

#8 Beej

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:02

Tom Wheatcroft has said he would invest up 80 mil into Donington to bring the British GP. The biggest problem is the lack of road infrastructure from the M1 to the circuit, at thye moment it is a single carrigeway. If Silverstone jams the A43 which uses 4 lanes to get to the circuit in the mornings Donny would not stand a hope. I would love to see a GP at Donington as it is my fav circuit in the UK. I have also seen some plans if it was to happen that would include moving the pits to the straight with the Dunlop bridge on it and remove the Foggerty esses at the end of that straight and carry it on all the way down to the Melbourne hairpin.

#9 Lifew12

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:03

Originally posted by Josta
Ayrton Senna has won 100% of the F1 races at Donington.

No he hasn't.

#10 Josta

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:07

Originally posted by Lifew12

No he hasn't.

Yes he has.

#11 Atreiu

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:15

The circuit is too narrow and short for f1 nowadays.
But Moto GP does fine there.

#12 Owen

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:17

Originally posted by Garagiste
Interlagos, Magny Cours, Hungaroring ..... Should be about the circuit, not the bling.

All of which are struggling to make it onto the calendar. That's the way it is nowadays with Bernie.

#13 Beej

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:25

Originally posted by Josta

Yes he has.

What about drivers such as Richard Shuttleworth, Bernd Rosemeyer, Hans Rüesch, Dick Seaman and Tazio Nuvolari

#14 postajegenye

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:28

Originally posted by Beej

What about drivers such as Richard Shuttleworth, Bernd Rosemeyer, Hans Rüesch, Dick Seaman and Tazio Nuvolari

That was not F1.

#15 F1billy

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:28

Originally posted by Beej

What about drivers such as Richard Shuttleworth, Bernd Rosemeyer, Hans Rüesch, Dick Seaman and Tazio Nuvolari

They were Grand Prixs not Formula 1 races!

#16 Frogman

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 12:34

Originally posted by F1billy
They were Grand Prixs not Formula 1 races!

Technically that should be Grands Prix;)
Other than that you're right. F1 started in 1950.

#17 Risil

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 13:06

Originally posted by Frogman

Technically that should be Grands Prix;)
Other than that you're right. F1 started in 1950.

And then stopped in 1951.;)

Formula One has as much to do with the cars Seaman, Caracciola and Rosemayer raced as the track they raced on has to do with modern Donington. You can still trace the outline of the old track and identify some old trackside buildings, but really they were totally different.

Considering that these days 'F1' is basically just shorthand for a World Championship for single-seater roadies, in any practical sense the 1950 Driver's Championship was a continuation of the pre-war exploits of Nuvolari, Lang etc.

#18 Josta

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 13:11

Originally posted by Risil

And then stopped in 1951.;)

Formula One has as much to do with the cars Seaman, Caracciola and Rosemayer raced as the track they raced on has to do with modern Donington. You can still trace the outline of the old track and identify some old trackside buildings, but really they were totally different.

Considering that these days 'F1' is basically just shorthand for a World Championship for single-seater roadies, in any practical sense the 1950 Driver's Championship was a continuation of the pre-war exploits of Nuvolari, Lang etc.

That doesn't stop the fact that Senna has won 100% of all F1 races held in Donington.

#19 Felix

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 21:12

Senna did not win all the Formula One races held at Donington - here are the reults of a Formula One race held at Donington, and I don't see Senna's name in the top three:

Round 8 - Donington Formula 1 Trophy
24 June 1979 - Donington Park: 165.077 km (3.175 km x 52 laps)

1 Rupert Keegan Arrows-Cosworth A1 52 laps
2 Emilio Villota Lotus-Cosworth 78 52 laps
3 Bernard de Dryver Fittipaldi-Cosworth F5A 52 laps

#20 Simon Arron

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 21:20

...and from the fourth round of the British F1 Championship, August 15 1982:

1 Jim Crawford Ensign-Cosworth N180 50 laps
2 Jorge Koechlin Williams-Cosworth FW07 50 laps
3 Joe Castellano Ensign-Cosworth N180 49 laps
4 John Brindley Tyrrell-Cosworth 008 48 laps
NC David Williams BRM P207 43 laps
NC Arnold Glass McLaren-Cosworth M29F 17 laps

...Warren Booth retired his Shadow DN9

#21 AndreasF1

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 21:32

Ayrton Senna has won 100% of the FIA F1 World Championship races at Doinington. Happy now ? :wave:

#22 saudoso

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 21:42

Originally posted by AndreasF1
Ayrton Senna has won 100% of the FIA F1 World Championship races at Doinington. Happy now ?

Ayrton Senna gave one of the best driving lessons ever at Doinington. This can't be disputed at all.

#23 Bill Becketts

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 21:49

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Simon Arron
[B]...and from the fourth round of the British F1 Championship, August 15 1982:

NC Arnold Glass McLaren-Cosworth M29F 17 laps

I don't remember Arnold, even though I was there. Can anyone clear my memory and illuminate us all.

#24 IOU 16

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 21:54

A very nice race course. Challening, picturesque, but it reminds me of Laguna Seca. Not a very good car course anymore. Same goes for Brands Hatch.

If Silverstone lost the British GP, the British GP would be off the schedule. With Bernie loving street races, I think Bernie would want a London GP.

#25 Lifew12

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 07:12

Originally posted by Felix
Senna did not win all the Formula One races held at Donington - here are the reults of a Formula One race held at Donington, and I don't see Senna's name in the top three:

Round 8 - Donington Formula 1 Trophy
24 June 1979 - Donington Park: 165.077 km (3.175 km x 52 laps)

1 Rupert Keegan Arrows-Cosworth A1 52 laps
2 Emilio Villota Lotus-Cosworth 78 52 laps
3 Bernard de Dryver Fittipaldi-Cosworth F5A 52 laps

Thank you. He also didn't win the one Giancarlo Martini won in an Ensign the year before.

#26 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 21:49

Originally posted by Frogman
F1 started in 1950.

No it didn't. The Drivers' World Championship started in 1950. Formula 1 started in 1947, although three races at the end of 1946 also complied to the 1947 rules.

#27 Josta

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 21:55

Originally posted by Vitesse2

No it didn't. The Drivers' World Championship started in 1950. Formula 1 started in 1947, although three races at the end of 1946 also complied to the 1947 rules.

Wrong. Formula 1 started in 1950. From 1946 to 1950 it was called Formula A. It was only officially known as Formula 1 in 1950.

#28 Red ITC

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 22:03

Donington is a shithole unfit for any kind of international racing. If gems like Spa are marginal for F1, any talk of of a WWII airfield with a few tones of extra tarmac is insulting. Let the billionaire psycopath sell the slot to a purpose built facility in a dictatorship somewhere and spare us the drama.

#29 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 23:27

Originally posted by Red ITC
any talk of of a WWII airfield with a few tones of extra tarmac is insulting

LOL well I wouldnt like to try to land a plane there... considering that the track is round the edge of a bowl and has tons of natural gradient... maybe you mean East Midlands airport nearby ;)

Or maybe you don't know what you're talking about.

#30 silverstonedave

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 23:58

This is clearly a Bernie wind up. When did you ever hear Bernie tell the truth about anything in the media. But you all fall for it every time. There is obviously a hidden agenda here. Problem is that no-one is clever enough by far to work it out. Bernie is several steps ahead of you all.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Silverstone is safe, but I think it probably will stay at Silverstone but not under its present control or ownership. At least we haven't seen Herr Tilke snooping around yet.

#31 pingu666

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 00:25

rockingham is probably the most modern circuit (non silverstone) but its abit soulless, atleast on tv :

donginton is hosting the motogp this weekend btw ;)

#32 Andy Davies

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:11

At least Donnington has decided it wants to be a racetrack rather than an airfield - ok so it does have an international airport next door

In reality it's probably too far North, somewhere like Thruxton might be a better alternative but access is crap and the track would need to be made "more interesting"

#33 Andy35

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:21

Silverstone screwed it all those years ago when they made it a lot slower with the castration of Stowe and Club and that silly loopy bit at the end of the lap. Don't mention that chicane either.

Regards

Adny

#34 fifi

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:40

if bernie thinks the traffic problems at silverstone are bad donnington will be a laugh

went to the renualt world series at donnington a few years back and the traffic was a nightmare, much worse than silverstone imo

#35 Suzy

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:42

I heard a rumour that the reason Donington Park lost the World Series by Renault was after last year's farce when the traffic jams were backed onto the M1 (North and South) and many people who were heading for East Midlands Airport missed their flights as a result (which should give you some idea of the length and duration of the tailback).

As for Rockingham, I gather its days as a circuit could be numbered if the redevelopment of the area around the circuit goes ahead. Apparently there are already complaints about the noise and traffic - imagine what it will be like when it becomes the middle of a housing estate instead of an industrial estate.

#36 F575 GTC

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:54

Originally posted by BuzzingHornet

LOL well I wouldnt like to try to land a plane there... considering that the track is round the edge of a bowl and has tons of natural gradient... maybe you mean East Midlands airport nearby ;)

Or maybe you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm thinking the latter :up:

I'd love for Donny to get the GP, the only downside is really the parking and roads around it; they'd have to make loads more parking avaliable and perhaps end up concreating over the fields behind Exhibition centre and the Melbourne Loop; and then perhaps on the opposite side of the track on the fields beyond the Old Hairpin - but that's a heck of alot of work.

The road network was terrible this queueing for the BTCC; leaving wasn't a problem but getting in was. Still, if the date is a little way off and the money and will to invest is there, then it might work. I doubt it though, just sounds like Bernie scaring Silverstone into signing their life away to the GP.

#37 Lifew12

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 10:04

Originally posted by Josta

Wrong. Formula 1 started in 1950. From 1946 to 1950 it was called Formula A. It was only officially known as Formula 1 in 1950.

Don't think so; Monkhouse, writing in 1953, has it as F1 in 1948.

Also, I didn't think Donington ever was an airfield, was it? I thought it was a storage depot for miltary vehicles.

#38 SirSaltire

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 10:04

Originally posted by silverstonedave
This is clearly a Bernie wind up. When did you ever hear Bernie tell the truth about anything in the media. But you all fall for it every time. There is obviously a hidden agenda here. Problem is that no-one is clever enough by far to work it out. Bernie is several steps ahead of you all.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Silverstone is safe, but I think it probably will stay at Silverstone but not under its present control or ownership. At least we haven't seen Herr Tilke snooping around yet.

Bernie up to his tricks again. Damon Hill will be having a laugh at this one!

#39 FrankB

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 10:54

Originally posted by Andy Davies

In reality it's probably too far North, somewhere like Thruxton might be a better alternative but access is crap and the track would need to be made "more interesting"

Donington too far North for who? Who would Thruxton be better for.? I should imagine a 1 hour drive from Donington would take in as much (if not more) of the population than Silverstone or Thruxton. Added to that, East Midlands Airport would provide better access for international / regional flights than is available at either of the other venues that you mention.

#40 HP

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 11:12

Originally posted by AndyW35
Silverstone screwed it all those years ago when they made it a lot slower with the castration of Stowe and Club and that silly loopy bit at the end of the lap. Don't mention that chicane either.

Regards

Adny

Bernie Ecclestone cares about a few corners that have been changed for the good or worse? Unlikely.

It's obvious however that Ecclestone uses Donington Park as bargaining tool.

#41 Risil

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 12:13

Originally posted by Josta

Wrong. Formula 1 started in 1950. From 1946 to 1950 it was called Formula A. It was only officially known as Formula 1 in 1950.

Come on, stop being so pedantic. The important thing about the categorisation of Formula One wasn't that it was named so in 1950, but that it wasn't changed since. For that reason it's ridiculous to talk, without qualification, about 1950 being the beginning of F1. It was even less of a change than F3000 was to GP2.

#42 Rob

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 12:14

I thought Tilke was going to be just doing the buildings but the phrase "revised track layout" worries me somewhat. I hope to god that they aren't going to neuter Donington Park just to get the British Grand Prix.

#43 DOHC

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 13:42

Originally posted by Risil
Come on, stop being so pedantic. The important thing about the categorisation of Formula One wasn't that it was named so in 1950, but that it wasn't changed since. For that reason it's ridiculous to talk, without qualification, about 1950 being the beginning of F1. It was even less of a change than F3000 was to GP2.

I think that there was a big change when F2 and F3 were dropped. F1 should have been dropped at the same time, for consistency.

Racing was never better than when F1=3L NA cars; F2=2L NA cars; F3=1L NA cars. Oh well, that was in the late 60s...

#44 Terry Walker

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 14:08

Donington circuit was originally in the grounds of a stately home, I understand. Later used (WW2) for assorted military purposes no doubt, like so many similar estates in the UK then. Never a RAF aerodrome. The circuit then lay unused for years until Tom Wheatcroft bought it and revived it.

#45 pingu666

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 14:21

erm, thruxton is a pretty exciting circuit unless they have cocked it up while i wasnt looking..

fastest permanent circuit in the UK i think its claimed*

*dundrod is faster maybe, but thats road

*rockingham oval is shurely faster too...

#46 pingu666

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 14:45

#47 Ferrim

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 14:53

Interestingly, the official F1 lap record at Donnington is the only one which Ayrton Senna still holds.

Not that it has a lot of merit, given there's been no races there since the unique 1993 event. But it's a point against coming back there :stoned:

#48 pingu666

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 14:58

http://youtube.com/w...feature=related

doesnt look too bad to me

#49 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 22:14

Originally posted by Josta

Wrong. Formula 1 started in 1950. From 1946 to 1950 it was called Formula A. It was only officially known as Formula 1 in 1950.

Motor sport history 101.

In the era up to 1939, Grands Prix were run to what was known as the "International Formula" or simply "The Formula".

In 1945-46 there was no official formula for Grand Prix races.

The FIA (formerly the AIACR) mandated a new Grand Prix Formula for 1947: 1.5 litres blown/4.5 litres unblown. Second-level races were left unregulated until 1948 when, to everyone's surprise, the FIA brought in - for the first time - an official "second formula": 2000cc unblown. (Don't let anyone tell you there was a pre-War "Voiturette Formula": there wasn't.) There was even to be a third level: 500cc unblown, which didn't 'alf piss the Italians off but pleased the British!

But at no point did the FIA give any of these formulae official names: in contemporary reports you will find Formula A/Formula B/Formula C, Formula 1/Formula 2/Formula 3 and Formula I/Formula II/Formula III. None of these is wrong, but none of them is right either - because nobody ever made a rule about it. It was all down to what individual journalists or race organisers decided they'd call them.

You have made the classic mistake of assuming that the past can be categorised as neatly as the present. To quote LP Hartley: "The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there".