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France 2008: Post Qualifying comments

Started by primer , Jun 21 2008 13:09

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161 replies to this topic

#101 Man of the race

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 17:55

Short analysis of the qualifying:

No reason to dismiss Kimi's and Felipe's excellent performances today. :up:

for them. And a good and fast strategical decision by Kimi was the moment of today.

Also, I have to give :up:

for good old Fernando, delivering now the goods after two troublesome races.
In France Renault probably has had more knowledge and will to put both cars into final qualifying and good positions, but for some reason that did not happen...

As a prediction for tomorrow, without surprises we will see a Ferrari battle on the front, and then a Trulli-train behind them.

#102 jesee

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 18:06

Originally posted by pRy
Lewis looked pretty worse for wear in the press conference. At one point I thought he was crying. I wonder if it's getting a bit too much for him.

You might need to re-adjust your TV settings or probably book an appointment with the optometrists :cool:

#103 Anomnader

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 18:12

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo

You're not very smart, are you?
Have a nice day, this is just too silly and childish for me.

Then don't act like a **** in future. You slam someone who asks for a Ferrari crash, but when someone asks why you're not applying such thinking everytime wants drivers to crash, you act like a ***** and edit a post to say just stop there. A clue I'll stop being childish when you stop being a *****

#104 Panch

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 18:13

TS says Kimi was going 0,45 faster than his fastest lap before the team took him in. After the qualifying he said he
have good fuel strategy comparing to Massa.

#105 noikeee

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 18:15

I find it hard to believe Kimi is heavier considering in the previous sessions Massa was quicker. I think he's 1 lap lighter - but that extra lap he saved through skipping the last timed lap will help him, and I believe he can be quicker in the race, winning the Grand Prix unless bad luck and bad weather get in the way.

#106 jesee

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 18:28

I think tomorrow might turn out to be the most boring race of the calender so far. The ferari duo will run away with it unless fernando does one of those banzai moves of his at the start. I dont wanna see a procession...infact iam kinda of happy to see hamilton down there because it might be entertaining at least.

Kimi :up:

Owned massa today.
Massa :up:

Alonso

Very good although i suspect he is on fumes as usual. Wanna please the french at home. Might fight for a podium although i hope webber can get it :up:

His perfomance has been excellent.
Kova :down:

He might as well have a number two now. Completely clueless :mad:

Piquet

Improved a bit...hope he does not make those silly moves.

#107 sopa

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 18:29

Trulli will finish on podium behind two Ferraris. He is a lap or two heavier than Alonso and passes him in the pits. BMW is slow. Hamilton has too much catching to do.

#108 stormshadow

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 19:09

Originally posted by jesee

You might need to re-adjust your TV settings or probably book an appointment with the optometrists

Why did you see him jumping for joy? :confused:

#109 molive

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 19:10

Originally posted by jesee
Kimi Owned massa today.

IIRC Felipe was faster in all sessions, except the one that counts, when he made a few mistakes. Imo that's far from being "owned". 0s041 is just a tiny gap (though KR probably could have done a better lap, but chose to save a lap, good for him).

#110 molive

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 19:19

Nelsinho got lucky with the upgrade from 11th to 9th, with free choice of fuel level for the first stint. If it rains he could have his big chance to get some good points.

#111 yr

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 19:22

Originally posted by molive

IIRC Felipe was faster in all sessions, except the one that counts...

Uh yes. It would make sense to bring that up only if being faster in meaningless sessions would count. But they don´t. Piquet was fastest in FP3 while Alonso wasn´t even in top 10... did that make Piquet somehow better than Alonso or even as good this weekend so far?

#112 Mauseri

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 19:47

Kimi

#113 steelyman

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 20:27

Originally posted by jesee

Kova He might as well have a number two now. Completely clueless

i dont think he did that bad. he is supposed to have a lot of fuel because of the penalty.

#114 Piif

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 20:49

Originally posted by jesee

Kova He might as well have a number two now. Completely clueless

What the hell are you on?

Here's a quote from autosport.com:

Dennis said McLaren changed Kovalainen's strategy for Q3 when it became apparent that he would be penalised - so as not to be stuck too far down the field with a light fuel load.

"It's not the way we wanted it to be, but in the end, once it had happened we changed strategy to try to minimise the damage tomorrow, and that clearly put Heikki down the grid," he explained.

"So he did a great job I think, and retrospectively tomorrow when you look at the stops and everything, fuel-corrected he did a great job."

#115 speedmaster

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 20:55

Originally posted by molive

IIRC Felipe was faster in all sessions, except the one that counts, when he made a few mistakes. Imo that's far from being "owned". 0s041 is just a tiny gap (though KR probably could have done a better lap, but chose to save a lap, good for him).

Molive... time in Finland is different...isn't there that you have loooonnnngggg days and nights? So their watches should not be as good as their cell phones...see, in a way, some cents of a second from Kimi to Massa in one session means he owned Massa.... on the flip side half a second from Massa to Kimi is too close to call... oh what the heck... it is Kimi right? :lol:

The worst is that Kimi does not need this... he is good as hell and the fanboys should be happy about it without the need of enhancing his feats and - mainly - detracting others feats...

Molive vamos secar esse pentelho louro desbotado.....

Cheers

#116 yr

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 21:05

Originally posted by speedmaster

Molive... time in Finland is different...isn't there that you have loooonnnngggg days and nights? So their watches should not be as good as their cell phones...see, in a way, some cents of a second from Kimi to Massa in one session means he owned Massa.... on the flip side half a second from Massa to Kimi is too close to call... oh what the heck... it is Kimi right?

The worst is that Kimi does not need this... he is good as hell and the fanboys should be happy about it without the need of enhancing his feats and - mainly - detracting others feats...

Molive vamos secar esse pentelho louro desbotado.....

Cheers

Nobody cares about free practise times, Kimi doesn´t own Massa if he is faster in friday or in saturday morning, same goes for Massa, he hasn´t done anything yet if he has been faster in all practise sessions.

In qualifying it starts to mean something, because being ahead in grid gives you an advantage in start, but having said that, it´s still just part of preparations for race.

Race is what counts, when you can beat your team mate and hopefully all others too, then you have done the job you are paid to do, not when you have faster lap in FP1 or in Q2 or something, the race is only thing that gives points.

#117 Menace

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 23:11

Kimi, Alonso, Webber :up:

Great laps by all three. Kimi was over 0.3tenths faster before abandoning his second fast lap in the last moment, looks to me like he surely has the pace to pull a lead and cruise into victory. :up:

Looking at the practise times he was the most consistent over a stint. I expect a Ferrari 1-2 by a good margin tomorrow, barring safety cars and other shenanigans.

Alonso had a great Qual, as did Webber and both Toyota's IMO. The Toyota's especially impressing me, is the effect of Ross already showing? Alonso and Renault though seem to me be right up there fighting for third now. :up:

#118 Mauseri

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 23:30

Originally posted by Menace
Kimi, Alonso, Webber

Great laps by all three. Kimi was over 0.3tenths faster before abandoning his second fast lap in the last moment, looks to me like he surely has the pace to pull a lead and cruise into victory. Looking at the practise times he was the most consistent over a stint. I expect a Ferrari 1-2 by a good margin tomorrow, barring safety cars and other shenanigans.

Alonso had a great Qual, as did Webber and both Toyota's IMO. The Toyota's especially impressing me, is the effect of Ross already showing? Alonso and Renault though seem to me be right up there fighting for third now.

Hopefully Filipe will spin and Alonso and Toyotas stay in front of Robby and Louis, it would be good for the championship.

#119 karlth

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 23:41

Originally posted by Menace
The Toyota's especially impressing me, is the effect of Ross already showing?

Ross?

#120 Menace

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 23:53

Originally posted by karlth

Ross?

Brain fart! Who is the man in charge at Toyota? Vasselon? Yamashina?

Heh, Honda's of course as terrible as ever.

#121 F575 GTC

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 23:56

Originally posted by Menace

Brain fart! Who is the man in charge at Toyota? Vasselon? Yamashina?

Heh, Honda's of course as terrible as ever.

No wonder Honda isn't doing well if Ross is secretly helping out Toyota! :lol:

#122 Sakae

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 23:57

Glock and Vettel have both wrong cars.They need both BMW. Polish saussauge can find his happiness elsewhere, and Nick should retire. It's over for him.

#123 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 00:04

Originally posted by PEW
From the comments abovem, several posters are ready to boot out more than one driver. Who is there to step into cockpit? I think team managers would be the first to get rid of a driver if they thought there was a hot shot in waiting.

How about Button to BMW and Webber to McLaren, Heidfeld to Honda and Heikki to RBR that would do the trick. :up:

Piquet to IRL and Bourdais to Renault. :up:

#124 sopa

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 00:37

Originally posted by F575 GTC

No wonder Honda isn't doing well if Ross is secretly helping out Toyota!

Originally posted by MiPe
Glock and Vettel have both wrong cars.They need both BMW. Polish saussauge can find his happiness elsewhere, and Nick should retire. It's over for him.

If you promote Glock to BMW, then promote Trulli to Ferrari.;)

But the best option would be Toyota improving and drivers staying there, so no need to change teams.

#125 qvn

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 04:29

Originally posted by yr

Nobody cares about free practise times, Kimi doesn´t own Massa if he is faster in friday or in saturday morning, same goes for Massa, he hasn´t done anything yet if he has been faster in all practise sessions.

In qualifying it starts to mean something, because being ahead in grid gives you an advantage in start, but having said that, it´s still just part of preparations for race.

Race is what counts, when you can beat your team mate and hopefully all others too, then you have done the job you are paid to do, not when you have faster lap in FP1 or in Q2 or something, the race is only thing that gives points.

It is not abour free practise but about qualifying. In Q1 and Q2, Massa was faster than Kimi. In Q3, 0.04s gap between Kimi and Massa is very small, even though Massa made a little miskae. So nobody could say Kimi owned Massa today, except some of Kimi's fanatics who can't see or doesn't want to recognize this fact.

#126 travbrad

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 04:31

Originally posted by primer
Nick Heidfeld ought to retire. NOW. Or perhaps BMW need to kick him out.

Q2 Kubica : 1:15.723

Q2 Heidfeld : 1:15.786

Wow a whopping 1/20th of a second... Kubica is doing a great job this year, but let's face facts. BMW is not on the pace this weekend, with either driver. In fact this this is probably the closest Heidfeld has been to Kubica all year

#127 tormave

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 06:26

Originally posted by qvn
It is not abour free practise but about qualifying. In Q1 and Q2, Massa was faster than Kimi. In Q3, 0.04s gap between Kimi and Massa is very small, even though Massa made a little miskae. So nobody could say Kimi owned Massa today, except some of Kimi's fanatics who can't see or doesn't want to recognize this fact.

If you saw the sector times on the lap Kimi aborted, he was already .3-.4 ahead of his own pole time after S2. The small difference you are referring to is between Kimis first lap and Felipes second (2 laps of fuel lighter).

I am not saying Kimi owned Massa today, but referring to the official Q3 times for the Ferrari drivers yesterday is only a good argument only for someone who didn't watch the broadcast.

#128 wonk123

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 06:34

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks

How about Button to BMW and Webber to McLaren, Heidfeld to Honda and Heikki to RBR that would do the trick. Piquet to IRL and Bourdais to Renault.

I WISH

#129 pike

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 06:41

Originally posted by MiPe
Glock and Vettel have both wrong cars.They need both BMW. Polish saussauge can find his happiness elsewhere, and Nick should retire. It's over for him.

Ja, ja. Deutschland, Deutschland über alles :rolleyes:

#130 Walsingham

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 07:03

Originally posted by MiPe
Glock and Vettel have both wrong cars.They need both BMW. Polish saussauge can find his happiness elsewhere, and Nick should retire. It's over for him.

The question is wheteher BMW needs them. I think they need real drivers you seem to think they need real Aryans. And both Glock and Vettel actually had BMW cars and whole year to prove they deserve seat more than "polish sausage". Looks like BMW werent impressed enough.

Anyway I'm having great fun watching your pathetic powerless hate for couple of months now.

#131 pUs

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 07:30

Originally posted by qvn

It is not abour free practise but about qualifying. In Q1 and Q2, Massa was faster than Kimi. In Q3, 0.04s gap between Kimi and Massa is very small, even though Massa made a little miskae. So nobody could say Kimi owned Massa today, except some of Kimi's fanatics who can't see or doesn't want to recognize this fact.

Kimi beat Massa yesterday, why is that so hard to accept?

#132 aditya-now

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 08:10

Originally posted by pasadena
....
Ferrari by far the best car, as all the time this season (Australia and Monaco notwithstanding).

Yes, pasadena, yet Schumacher would never have extracted as much from it.
We have seen that in 2005 and 2006

Lucky Ferrari has now Kimi :wave:

#133 bankoq

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 08:38

Originally posted by MiPe
Glock and Vettel have both wrong cars.They need both BMW. Polish saussauge can find his happiness elsewhere, and Nick should retire. It's over for him.

BMW had telemetry data of both these drivers so they exactly know what are they really made of. Strange, they didn't drop Kubica or Heidfeld to hire one of them, isn't it?

YES, YES, MiPe, it's your time and now you can at last use your brain to figure out why they didn't!...Did it hurt?

#134 Ferrim

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 08:59

Originally posted by bankoq

YES, YES, MiPe, it's your time and now you can at last use your brain to figure out why they didn't!...Did it hurt?

Because the guys ruling BMW are part of the international jewry? :rotfl:

#135 bankoq

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:09

Well, maybe ;) Try again.

#136 abc

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:30

Kimi was 0,4 sec. up on his own best time at S2, he could do 1:15,9 and be 0,5 - 0,6 sec. up on Massa on this relatively short track.

It could and should be hailed as Hamiltons Q3 in Canada but Im glad it isnt the case as we all know how it ended for Ramilton :cat:

in Canada.

#137 Italiano Tifoso

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:34

Originally posted by tormave

If you saw the sector times on the lap Kimi aborted, he was already .3-.4 ahead of his own pole time after S2. The small difference you are referring to is between Kimis first lap and Felipes second (2 laps of fuel lighter).

I am not saying Kimi owned Massa today, but referring to the official Q3 times for the Ferrari drivers yesterday is only a good argument only for someone who didn't watch the broadcast.

#138 Italiano Tifoso

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:34

Originally posted by tormave

If you saw the sector times on the lap Kimi aborted, he was already .3-.4 ahead of his own pole time after S2. The small difference you are referring to is between Kimis first lap and Felipes second (2 laps of fuel lighter).

I am not saying Kimi owned Massa today, but referring to the official Q3 times for the Ferrari drivers yesterday is only a good argument only for someone who didn't watch the broadcast.

The fact is that Kimi was the only driver this weekend working on the long runs, Massa was not able to because of his neck injury so Kimi was in charge of long runs on both types of tyre while Massa fine tuned the one lap performance of the car.

Kimi's setup and work load was totally tuned for the race and a heavy car, this explains why Massa was faster in Q1 and Q2 and Kimi in Q3. The scary thing for Massa is not Kimi's pace but his consistency on the softer tyre, have a look at his stint times in FP3...impressive to say the least and on the softer tyre which is not as consistent as the harder rubber.

The biggest advantage for Kimi though is the fact that Massa stuffed his second run, Kimi boxed it early, saved a lap of fuel and now will have at worst the same fuel as Massa for the race and at best will have 2 laps more for the first stint.

#139 AFCA

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:45

It's been drizzling at the circuit since this morning.

Brawn: ''It is to stay like this: changeable and hard to predict.''

Horner: ''We don't expect big changes. It can always drizzle but there can also be dry periods.''

Dernie: ''There's hardly any wind, only a tepid breeze. Therefore it could well be that the weather front stays right above us. When we drove to the track this morning it was raining in Nevers, though only a little further it was completely dry.''

#140 Spunout

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:48

Originally posted by aditya-now

Yes, pasadena, yet Schumacher would never have extracted as much from it.
We have seen that in 2005 and 2006

Lucky Ferrari has now Kimi

Let´s remember according to Hrvoje Ferrari would drop to midpack with Kimi as car developer. It seems he was wrong; Kimi - who always has the best car according to Hrvoje - has designed another masterpiece, this time without guys like Newey or Byrne assisting him.

#141 Just

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:49

Originally posted by Italiano Tifoso
The biggest advantage for Kimi though is the fact that Massa stuffed his second run, Kimi boxed it early, saved a lap of fuel and now will have at worst the same fuel as Massa for the race and at best will have 2 laps more for the first stint.

So you're assuming that the original plan was for them to stop only one lap apart? Has that always been the case this season? :confused:

#142 abc

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:52

Originally posted by Italiano Tifoso

The biggest advantage for Kimi though is the fact that Massa stuffed his second run, Kimi boxed it early, saved a lap of fuel and now will have at worst the same fuel as Massa for the race and at best will have 2 laps more for the first stint.

I dont understand one thing, he saved outlap where consumption is not that high, lets say he saved fuel for half of the lap, whats the use of this? You have either pit in the same lap as planned but your car would be heavier due to that saved fuel or you have to save fuel during the race. I dont see any advantage here.?

#143 Torch

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 09:59

Originally posted by abc

I dont understand one thing, he saved outlap where consumption is not that high, lets say he saved fuel for half of the lap, whats the use of this? You have either pit in the same lap as planned but your car would be heavier due to that saved fuel or you have to save fuel during the race. I dont see any advantage here.?

If a had done a proper lap he may have had 19.5 laps worth of fuel. That extra half lap (probably more) gives him another lap.

19 is an example before people jump on it

#144 abc

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:08

Originally posted by Torch

If a had done a proper lap he may have had 19.5 laps worth of fuel. That extra half lap (probably more) gives him another lap.

19 is an example before people jump on it

Yeah, but why he would have had fuel for 19,5 laps instead of exactly 19 laps? (Half lap and 19 laps are indeed examples ;) )

#145 F575 GTC

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:09

Originally posted by abc

I dont understand one thing, he saved outlap where consumption is not that high, lets say he saved fuel for half of the lap, whats the use of this? You have either pit in the same lap as planned but your car would be heavier due to that saved fuel or you have to save fuel during the race. I dont see any advantage here.?

Basically, doing one less lap in qualifying should - in theory - give him one more lap during his first stint in the race. That gives him an extra lap to either pull away more or stick with whoever is in the lead.

#146 K-One

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:21

Maybe that 0,5 lap could be 1 safery car lap?

#147 Gilles12

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:23

Originally posted by K-One
Maybe that 0,5 lap could be 1 safery car lap?

Would that be a Honda then?

#148 Italiano Tifoso

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:24

Originally posted by Just

So you're assuming that the original plan was for them to stop only one lap apart? Has that always been the case this season?

If history has told us anything about Ferrari, in most races this year they have an optimal strategy for the race which both drivers take separated by a single lap. So yes i am making the assumption that they are separated by one lap only given both the history of Ferrari this year during the race and also looking at the difference of Massa and Kimi's lap times in all sessions. To be less then a tenth apart in Q3 is a reasonable sign of very similar fuel loads.

#149 Italiano Tifoso

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:27

Originally posted by abc

I dont understand one thing, he saved outlap where consumption is not that high, lets say he saved fuel for half of the lap, whats the use of this? You have either pit in the same lap as planned but your car would be heavier due to that saved fuel or you have to save fuel during the race. I dont see any advantage here.?

The advantage is marginal and could swing either way, however given Kimi's ability to handle a fuel loaded Ferrari better then Massa has been able to this weekend i would say that the advantage is in Kimi's favour and not the other way around.

#150 Just

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 10:31

Originally posted by Italiano Tifoso
To be less then a tenth apart in Q3 is a reasonable sign of very similar fuel loads.

Yeah, I suppose. But then Massa said he made a couple mistakes on his lap. And of course, Raikkonen aborted a lap where he was up by 0.3 or so. And I had thought there had been a race or two this season where Raikkonen had taken more than a single lap extra than Massa, although that's probably just my failing memory acting up again. Yeah you're probably right - it probably IS only one lap difference, although I'm not quite as confident about it as you are.;)

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France 2008: Post Qualifying comments

#101 Man of the race

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