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The auction thread

Started by bradbury west , Aug 07 2008 18:34

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67 replies to this topic

#1 bradbury west

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 18:34

In view of the various specific topic threads, photos etc and the e Bay thread, do we need an Auction Thread, to highlight perhaps unusual motoring or motor racing items. Sales such as the Dawson-Damer collection etc carry their own threads. If it is felt there is a need, and mindful of the seemingly huge interest in period photographs on TNF and the apparent increase in interest in the early days of motoring, I would like to start with this;
http://www.dailymail...rn-century.html
If the view is that the thread is unnecessary, let me know and I will delete it.
There was piece about it in the Telegraph business pages but I cannot find it
Roger Lund.

#2 zakeriath

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 18:53

It is a bit misleading, stating "the turn of the centuary" it was only 8 years ago. Those cars look well over a hundred years old.;)

#3 Allan Lupton

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 19:53

At least a couple of the photos shown are not particularly unusual, so far as I knw.
The first showing the Panhards of Butler and Browne and Harmsworth's Parisian Daimler at the start of the 1000 Mile Trial.
The second showing the Lawsons on the Panhard-Levassor Pilot car with the other P-L behind at the Brighton Métropole after the 1896 Emancipation Run.

£100 per print (unspecified size) seems a bit optimistic, but then there's always someone. . .

#4 Doug Nye

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 20:53

Originally posted by Allan Lupton
£100 per print (unspecified size) seems a bit optimistic, but then there's always someone. . .

Uh-uh - from our experience this is true some of the time, but the rest of the time there is truly nobody at all interested in paying a hyped-up price...the market will always dictate what sells and what does not, and the levels thereof (if the sale is actually a genuine deal, meaning willing seller, willing buyer, and REAL MONEY changing hands. A number of major alleged or claimed sales are in fact nothing more than theatre, an attempt to hype a non-existent market).

DCN

#5 Pils1989

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 20:59

I would buy them but not at 126 Euro a piece or 3780 Euro for the photo album :rolleyes:

#6 drivers71

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:11

The Bonhams 'Quail' auction in California, 15 August 2008, features the E2A Jaguar, famously raced by Dan Gurney and Walt Hansgen at Le Mans 1960, and on four further occasions by Hansgen (twice), Sir Jack Brabham and Bruce McLaren, after it was prised from Jaguars hands by Briggs Cunningham.
Personally I won't be bidding, but a totally unique piece of racing history.

#7 Doug Nye

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 22:21

Jaguar E2A sold in Bonhams & Butterfields' auction at Quail Lodge, Carmel, for US $4,957,000.

That's some £2,657,070.80.

It's the 80p that counts...

DCN

#8 Scuderia CC

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 07:57

Peter Williamson Collection By Gooding & Co :

http://latimesblogs....am-bugatti.html

#9 Red Socks

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:36

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Jaguar E2A sold in Bonhams & Butterfields' auction at Quail Lodge, Carmel, for US $4,957,000.

That's some £2,657,070.80.

It's the 80p that counts...

DCN

With or without all the extras -premium etc- thats what really counts!

#10 simon drabble

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:55

what really counts is that it is way beyond most of our budget's!

As a Jaguar fan I hope that the new owner has the balls/budget to take it out in anger

#11 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 17:39

Originally posted by Red Socks
With or without all the extras -premium etc- thats what really counts!

All included = total paid by purchaser.

Simon - As for taking out E2A "in anger" do you really think that would be a fitting use for such a unique car? To what purpose?

DCN

#12 Sharman

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 18:45

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Jaguar E2A sold in Bonhams & Butterfields' auction at Quail Lodge, Carmel, for US $4,957,000.

That's some £2,657,070.80.

It's the 80p that counts...

DCN

Boggle boggle bloody boggle

#13 drivers71

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:42

How do we discover WHO has bought the E2A?

#14 David McKinney

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 09:31

We wait to see if DCN tells us
If he doesn't, we presume it's confidential (as these matters usually are)

#15 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 09:51

A European Jaguar collector I believe - if true it will be joining some of its relatives...

DCN

#16 RTH

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 16:17

Some massive sums being spent on rare cars at the moment. Just at the time western economies are heading in to a serious nose dive. Some super rich people out there still just now!

#17 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 10:16

H&H's latest racing car offerings landed on my doorstep this morning; for auction/tender 12th October:-

WTM446 - Lister Jaguar Coupe
GS7431 - Fraser Nash-BMW
JK2340 - MG C-Type
KWM451 - AC Ace

I was surprised that the Lister was in this and not the Bonhams Goodwood auction seeing as it has been in the Revival TT a few times but I'm sure I read it's racing this year, so maybe the current owner didn't want to risk selling and then damaging it in the race.

#18 Allan Lupton

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 17:21

Although the Bonham's Brian Verrall Collection sale on 1 Sept in New Bond Street, London is motorcycle biassed (as you'd expect if you knew Verrall), it includes some quite useful motoring books and could be worth studying
It's here

#19 Paul Taylor

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 17:28

The question is, really, who would waste £2.6m on a car, regardless of whether it will be raced or sit in a billionaire's living room...

#20 bradbury west

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 21:59

Originally posted by Allan Lupton

Although the Bonham's Brian Verrall Collection sale on 1 Sept in New Bond Street, London is motorcycle biassed (as you'd expect if you knew Verrall), it includes some quite useful motoring books and could be worth studying

Excellent link, Allan, with some superb motorcycles, and you are correct about the books. Well worth scrolling through and checking the contents of the lots.
Roger Lund

#21 Doug Nye

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 22:04

Originally posted by Paul Taylor
The question is, really, who would waste £2.6m on a car, regardless of whether it will be raced or sit in a billionaire's living room...

Paul - such people regard it as money stored - not money spent. There's an immense difference.

DCN

#22 etceterini.com

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 22:21

I'd rather buy a $4 mil car that I can drive, hear, smell, and enjoy than a Monet for $86 mil, or
a blue square on a red background for $50 mil, or that painting of the fat lady on a
couch for $30 mil.....

#23 bradbury west

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 22:23

Originally posted by Doug Nye

Paul - such people regard it as money stored - not money spent. There's an immense difference.

DCN

And bearing in mind the large amounts of money which such people have, or to which they have access, the sum itself becomes almost a non-issue. It is all relative and more or less risk-free
Roger Lund

#24 simon drabble

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 07:24

DCN for purely selfish reasons - I would love to see it!
I have to say that if I had the budget I would have no problem in collecting "trophy" cars as they will always be a longterm sound investment and to be honest to have ones own collection would be every bit as satisfying as an important art collection.
To deal in them is a close second best and I have a good friend that you, DCN, know well in the Hook area who is well aware I will be hounding him for a car washing job at such time as the city dispense with my services!
The Coupe Jaguar comes up quite frequently - I know that there were two of themn - is it the same one each time and if so why? They were not great in period but like Bizzers etc that coudl be corrected for current historic racing - certainly an unusual car and I like them!

#25 Red Socks

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 18:20

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Taylor
The question is, really, who would waste £2.6m on a car, regardless of whether it will be raced or sit in a billionaire's living room... [/QUOTE

Zeigler as I understand it, to got with his C and D type !!

#26 Sharman

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 21:08

Didn't he run something called "the Follies"?

#27 Doug Nye

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 22:14

Originally posted by simon drabble
The Coupe Jaguar comes up quite frequently - I know that there were two of themn - is it the same one each time and if so why?

Eh??????

DCN

#28 Vitesse2

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 22:27

Originally posted by Sharman
Didn't he run something called "the Follies"?

That was Ziegfeld ...

#29 RTH

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 06:54

According to this ERA R1A was to be sold at the FOS. Did this happen ?

http://www.motorbase...-8E99C883.ehtml

They say it was to be sold without reserve with a guide price of £1/2M. I do not recall hearing anything about it .

#30 Sharman

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 07:52

Sorry Vitesse, she was of course, a soprano!

#31 Allan Lupton

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 08:21

Originally posted by RTH
According to this ERA R1A was to be sold at the FOS. Did this happen ?

http://www.motorbase...-8E99C883.ehtml

They say it was to be sold without reserve with a guide price of £1/2M. I do not recall hearing anything about it .

Bonhams results show

Sold for £359,000 inclusive of Buyer's Premium

#32 simon drabble

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 09:14

Originally posted by Doug Nye

Eh??????

DCN

I mean the Lister Jaguar GT Prototype but now I look at the photo of it again on the H+H advert in HMRN I am not sure I am talking about the car I thought I was! I meant the car that I think Jackie Stewart drove once in period it was a closed car and about the same time. I think there might have been two of them made and as I said they were not competitive in period.

#33 David McKinney

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 11:25

Are you thinking of the Tojeiro-Buick coupés, Simon?
There were two of those, and Jackie Stewart was among their drivers
They had their enginnes at a different end of the car from the Lister-Jaguar though

#34 simon drabble

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 20:42

yes I am - apologies! I am sure that one of them is for sale again..

#35 bradbury west

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 21:03

The ex JYS car for sale
http://www.racecar.c...s.asp?StockID=1
Roger Lund

#36 simon drabble

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 06:25

that is the one - it comes up for sale fairly often. Although out of my price range the last time it was up for sale it was about £170k which I thought given its history (presuming its undisputed) was relatively good value. Pop the yank engine back in (on the basis of running costs and so it would run for 6 hours!) and you have a great Spa 6 Hour/Gentlemen Drivers car!

#37 Red Socks

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 17:26

Originally posted by simon drabble
that is the one - it comes up for sale fairly often. Although out of my price range the last time it was up for sale it was about £170k which I thought given its history (presuming its undisputed) was relatively good value. Pop the yank engine back in (on the basis of running costs and so it would run for 6 hours!) and you have a great Spa 6 Hour/Gentlemen Drivers car!

Spa 6 hours does not really encourage this sort of Sports Racer- GT, TC and GTP are more to the organisers taste.

#38 simon drabble

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:10

I disagree - whilst sports prototypes have sadly been excluded ( we came 4th in 05 in my Merlyn so its a sore point!) the reason was to encourage back the Cobra's and GT40's. Given this would not be a front runner but would enhance the grid I think it would definitely get a slot. However buying it for one race would be a foolhardy thing to do but I would imagine you would gets invites to pretty much whatever you wanted in it - Guards Trophy would definitely welcome with open arms and at 150 area its the same price as a B8 but a lot more exclusive, great history and more importantly pre 66! Anyway probably a little off topic

#39 Alan Cox

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:10

This overhead photo on the cover of the latest Coys auction catalogue caught my eye - even though Reims was the car's race debut, it already has the appearance of a racing car with a hard life behind it

Posted Image

#40 RTH

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 15:34

The registration number S1 has just reached £400,000 at auction

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/7626467.stm

Another example of the deeply widening gulf in Britain in recent years between the rich and the rest of us .

#41 Jones Foyer

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 18:45

Originally posted by RTH
The registration number S1 has just reached £400,000 at auction

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/7626467.stm

Another example of the deeply widening gulf in Britain in recent years between the rich and the rest of us .

...and yet, the plate will be used on a Skoda.

There's something ironic about that.

#42 bradbury west

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 14:46

At Coys
http://www.coys.co.u...uction=80&id=34
Roger Lund

#43 RTH

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 14:59

Mmm..... interesting Roger, no price estimate. That Williams Type 35 Monaco winner untouched for 60 years that Doug examined on MFQ went up to £4M yet they said it did not reach its reserve !!

#44 RTH

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 07:36

1966 Porsche 906 which won its class at Le Mans is up for auction with a guide price of £400,000 at the Coys sale at Brands Hatch on Saturday May 23rd

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=19897

Edited by RTH, 14 May 2009 - 07:38.

#45 simon drabble

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 08:20

1966 Porsche 906 which won its class at Le Mans is up for auction with a guide price of £400,000 at the Coys sale at Brands Hatch on Saturday May 23rd

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=19897

so 906 with history or S1 number plate - let me think about that for a nano second......! When compared with the latest prices race cars are selling at this sounds relative value....

#46 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 09:04

You have only until Sunday to decide how much to bid for this "magnificent example of Maserati archtecture". http://www.rmauction...?...&CarID=r127

Apparently it is "virtually untouched in appearance since it last left the factory in 1958".

Must be genuine, Sir Stirling has endorsed it...

Snapped here at RaceRetro earlier this year:

Posted Image