Yes. He was as fast as Vettel in the old car and has recently been looking comfortable in the new one. He strikes me as being one of the most analytical drivers out there, so let him work on his problems and continue to find the speed he obviously has.
Has Bourdais done enough to justify his seat for 2009?
Started by
andy walker
, Sep 14 2008 15:09
112 replies to this topic
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#52
Mark A
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 11:03
Originally posted by Frans
Ok then, please tell me WHAT the hell did that Sebastian Bourdais showed us this season so far, besides very big ****ups in the races??? ....
maybe he can do a pretty nice lap in qualy, weehoo, but in the races he lacks experiance and racers-agression. He's more a driver than a racer.
His 1st lap at Monza was 5min 22sec.
At the end of lap 1 he was +2:44.942 behind Vettel
At the end of the race he was +2:40.276 behind Vettel
Really makes you wonder where he would have finished if he was running 4th at the start. Think he drove an excellent race in the circumstances.
#53
F1Fanatic.co.uk
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 11:15
Has Bourdais done enough to justify his seat for 2009?
In isolation I don't think he's done enough. But compared to the drivers who've been linked with his seat (Sato, various GP2 racers) I think he's the better bet.
#54
Frans
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 13:42
Well, I just hope that Frans (T.) will remove that driver asap and let another (decent) driver get a shot at that seat.
#55
MikeTekRacing
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 13:53
like Jos? you haven't answered that one
#56
Frans
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 14:42
Well, I thinks impossible to compare the best racer in the world with that French piece of driver...... Jos would blow Bourdais tenfold away, in any car, there is no question about it.
Jos got 2 3th places in his 1st F1 season, .... I would like to see Bourdais do something like that then.... (or rather not)
He (SBourdais) has absolutely ZERO race agression in his driving.... He only got his seat because he won the Champcar title several times... And over there it's not hard to win I've noticed with Doornbos who tried in a Minardi last season and because 2nd overall I believe with several wins there...
So I really am amazed how many people here wanna give that guy another chance.... Why? ... Where do you base all that on? ... How many chances do you wanna give him? 10?
He seems a Ricardo Rosset with glasses to me....
Jos got 2 3th places in his 1st F1 season, .... I would like to see Bourdais do something like that then.... (or rather not)
He (SBourdais) has absolutely ZERO race agression in his driving.... He only got his seat because he won the Champcar title several times... And over there it's not hard to win I've noticed with Doornbos who tried in a Minardi last season and because 2nd overall I believe with several wins there...
So I really am amazed how many people here wanna give that guy another chance.... Why? ... Where do you base all that on? ... How many chances do you wanna give him? 10?
He seems a Ricardo Rosset with glasses to me....
#57
Tmeranda
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 14:48
Originally posted by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
I think he would crush Sato personally.
I agree, but then my half blind 90 year old grandmother could crush Sato.
#58
anbeck
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 15:34
Originally posted by Frans
Well, I thinks impossible to compare the best racer in the world with that French piece of driver...... Jos would blow Bourdais tenfold away, in any car, there is no question about it.
Jos got 2 3th places in his 1st F1 season, .... I would like to see Bourdais do something like that then.... (or rather not)
He (SBourdais) has absolutely ZERO race agression in his driving.... He only got his seat because he won the Champcar title several times... And over there it's not hard to win I've noticed with Doornbos who tried in a Minardi last season and because 2nd overall I believe with several wins there...
So I really am amazed how many people here wanna give that guy another chance.... Why? ... Where do you base all that on? ... How many chances do you wanna give him? 10?
Sorry for the fullquote, but I think I will print and frame this masterpiece of irony!
Or... was it..... noooo!
#59
Frans
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Posted 15 September 2008 - 22:10
I would even rate Michael Schumacher a better driver than Bourdais! No shame in saying thAt even.
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#60
Slyder
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 03:34
Originally posted by Frans
I would even rate Michael Schumacher a better driver than Bourdais! No shame in saying thAt even.
You realize how stupidly lop-sided that sounds?
#61
alfa1
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 05:42
Originally posted by Mark A
At the end of lap 1 he was +2:44.942 behind Vettel
At the end of the race he was +2:40.276 behind Vettel
Doubly good considering that lapped drivers have to keep getting out of the way of everyone else (ie slow down and then let them past) through the course of the race.
#62
ex Rhodie racer
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 06:38
Jos? Jos? Jos who? Never heard of a F1 racing driver named Jos. The only one I can think of was a Dutchman, Jos someoneorother, who had a few drives of the sunday afternoon variety once, because sponsors insisted on giving him a chance due to nationalistic reasons.
Wasn´t he eventually arrested for impersonating a racing driver?
Wasn´t he eventually arrested for impersonating a racing driver?
#63
MikeTekRacing
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 07:26
yes...and considering that he had to unlap himself in the process sometimesOriginally posted by alfa1
Doubly good considering that lapped drivers have to keep getting out of the way of everyone else (ie slow down and then let them past) through the course of the race.
being so fast i don't think he needed to get out of somebody's way since nobody was way faster
#64
MikeTekRacing
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 07:27
i have to frame this for future referenceOriginally posted by Frans
I would even rate Michael Schumacher a better driver than Bourdais! No shame in saying thAt even.
frans rating michael above somebody...you are getting a little old my friend
#65
kar
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 09:09
Imo, yes. Bourdais has done enough. It has to be remembered that he is effectively a rookie, and his performances have been getting better and better all season.
He's not been too far off of Vettel and indeed but for circumstances could well have bested him a few times this season. Given the benchmark I think Bourdais (particularly on the back of his outstanding performance this weekend) should be given another season.
If it's not at Redbull, maybe at Renault? He would clean Piquet's clock imo.
He's not been too far off of Vettel and indeed but for circumstances could well have bested him a few times this season. Given the benchmark I think Bourdais (particularly on the back of his outstanding performance this weekend) should be given another season.
If it's not at Redbull, maybe at Renault? He would clean Piquet's clock imo.
#66
Paolo
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 10:30
Bourdais has shown good pace, I hope he stays in F1.
Of the current F1 drivers, I'd say just Piquet and Kovalainen should be replaced on grounds of sheer (in)ability (plus Coulthard, on other grounds, having he chosen to retire).
This is not to say that all the rest of them are Schumachers, but they are at least decent.
I hope Pantano gets a seat somewhere, he's GP2 champ and, even if I reckon he's done stupid mistakes lately, it's understandable that he felt the pressure, given his incredibly uphill racing career.
He's fast and deserves a non-Jordanesque chance.
Of the current F1 drivers, I'd say just Piquet and Kovalainen should be replaced on grounds of sheer (in)ability (plus Coulthard, on other grounds, having he chosen to retire).
This is not to say that all the rest of them are Schumachers, but they are at least decent.
I hope Pantano gets a seat somewhere, he's GP2 champ and, even if I reckon he's done stupid mistakes lately, it's understandable that he felt the pressure, given his incredibly uphill racing career.
He's fast and deserves a non-Jordanesque chance.
#67
Rosemayer
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 12:11
Originally posted by Frans
nope, not even enough to finish the rest of the season. they should dump him asap
What and replace him with that ******** lack of talent Jos Verstappen.
#68
Lamag
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 12:19
Yes, with Bruno Senna as a team mate.
#69
Nathan
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 13:54
Atleast one more season for sure.
#70
Frans
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 14:27
What and replace him with that ******** lack of talent Jos Verstappen.
watch out your not going to be hit by God's Thunder-Lightning now!! Of the current F1 drivers, I'd say just Piquet and Kovalainen should be replaced on grounds of sheer (in)ability
Piquet and Kovolainen DID reach the podium this season ... where Nelson's one was more impressive than Heikki's I must admit.... Plus they have some personality... what in my opinion lacks with the Frenchman.
#71
noikeee
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 14:43
I have an hard time answering this question... on one hand I feel he's done enough for the team to give him the benefit of the doubt and he could very well be comfortable again with next year's car, on the other hand it's 23-4(!!) for Vettel on points... even if he was robbed 5 or 6 points in Monza due to the stall, it's still a big difference.
#72
The Lonely
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 14:51
If things had gone his way rather than events out of his control he could have 15 or so points this season (Australia/Spa/Monza), should keep the seat imo, especially as no one in GP2 is really setting the world alight.
#73
Rosemayer
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 15:13
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frans
[B]
watch out your not going to be hit by God's Thunder-Lightning now!!
I think you should watch out as I am God.
[B]
watch out your not going to be hit by God's Thunder-Lightning now!! I think you should watch out as I am God.
#74
connerz
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 15:21
I'd rather see him go to Renault and have sato take his seat. Sato is way more entertaining.
#75
Maximus
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 15:28
Frans is a monotheist, his God btw has just been dumped and is -again- looking for a ride in 2009Originally posted by Rosemayer
I think you should watch out as I am God.
#76
santori
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Posted 16 September 2008 - 22:12
f1complete and f1-live say that Franz Tost has been quoted as saying "We have two good drivers" by the German newspaper FAZ, which sounds promising.
I think Piquet should stay, too, by the way.
I think Piquet should stay, too, by the way.
#77
MikeTekRacing
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Posted 17 September 2008 - 06:47
he was more unlucky....where did his engine explode in Oz? in 4th place?Originally posted by paranoik0
I have an hard time answering this question... on one hand I feel he's done enough for the team to give him the benefit of the doubt and he could very well be comfortable again with next year's car, on the other hand it's 23-4(!!) for Vettel on points... even if he was robbed 5 or 6 points in Monza due to the stall, it's still a big difference.
at spa he was head and shoulders above vettel until the last lap....yeah, i know, race wasn't over....
but point gap doesn't tell the whole story
what was the point gap before spa?
#78
Hames Junt
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Posted 17 September 2008 - 10:11
I'd say yes he does. He's been closer to Vettel in recent races than the results suggest.
Also out of all of the drivers on next years grid he will be one of the most experienced on slick tryres.
Also out of all of the drivers on next years grid he will be one of the most experienced on slick tryres.
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#80
wingwalker
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Posted 17 September 2008 - 12:40
Totally. He has **** luck this season, but he easily has good enough for F1 pace. Plus, slicks will definitely help him in 2009.
#81
Frans
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 09:07
phew, Long Live Franz Tost !!!! 
He confirmed an new young driver for 2009: Buemi !!! (19 years old)
BUT Under the condition the OTHER driver would be a driver with EXPERIANCE in F1. So, this leaves Bourdais without a Torro Rosso for 2009, thank God!!!
He confirmed an new young driver for 2009: Buemi !!! (19 years old)
BUT Under the condition the OTHER driver would be a driver with EXPERIANCE in F1. So, this leaves Bourdais without a Torro Rosso for 2009, thank God!!!
#82
Hames Junt
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 09:15
Originally posted by Frans
phew, Long Live Franz Tost !!!!
He confirmed an new young driver for 2009: Buemi !!! (19 years old)
BUT Under the condition the OTHER driver would be a driver with EXPERIANCE in F1. So, this leaves Bourdais without a Torro Rosso for 2009, thank God!!!
Source?
That doesn't definitely mean that Bourdais has been bombed out though does it. The only driver I would take over Bourdais would maybe be Davidson and he hasn't even tested yet.
Buemi and Bourdais though would be a fantastic line-up.
#83
wingwalker
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 09:36
That would suck. He really is on the pace lately.
#84
Frans
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 11:16
Source?
http://www.formule1....10-32-7867.html
it say's there's no contract YET, but they want to let Buemi drive in 2009 next to another EXPERIANCED driver. And, experianced is something what Bourdais is not. Not at all even.
#85
Hames Junt
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 11:31
Originally posted by Frans
http://www.formule1....10-32-7867.html
it say's there's no contract YET, but they want to let Buemi drive in 2009 next to another EXPERIANCED driver. And, experianced is something what Bourdais is not. Not at all even.
One season is relatively experienced and he tested in F1 back in 2001/2. As a racer he has bags of experience, not neccesarily in F1, but experience neither the less. Don't rule out Bourdais yet.
At the same time I wouldn't expect an announcement til the end of the season so it keeps him on his toes. But I'd have my money on a Buemi and Bourdais partnership for next season.
#86
Maximus
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 11:36
Me think this is a typical case of Frans putting together 1 + 1 and ending up with 3 ;)
#87
Hames Junt
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 12:08
Originally posted by Maximus
Me think this is a typical case of Frans putting together 1 + 1 and ending up with 3 ;)
Probably. Although it is 1 Seb + 1 Seb = 3 Sebs + 1 Webb in the Red Bull Teams
#88
Rosemayer
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 12:10
I don't think Frans can count to 3.
#89
V8 Fireworks
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 13:00
That seems to leave STR line-up as Beumi/Fisichella (Frans spec) or Beumi/Bourdais (Bourdais fan spec). All sorted then.
#90
Hames Junt
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 13:12
I think if Sato deserves a test then so does Davidson.
#91
Bernd Rosemeyer
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 13:22
Sato had his test yesterday and he went 7 tenths faster than Buemi. General conditions did improve though.
#92
Frans
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 13:26
Sato, yeah sure, he's fun to watch.... ... Davidson? Nononoooo. 
But V8Fireworks, ... I never said Fisi to STR, ... I just said Bourdais out... and Beumi in.....
But V8Fireworks, ... I never said Fisi to STR, ... I just said Bourdais out... and Beumi in.....
#93
tillster
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 14:45
I think he's done more than enough, frankly. The reasons are all above in this thread.
However, I'd like to see him go to Renault next season alongside Nick and Piquet will have to find something else to do.
Piquet vs Bourdais is a no brainer for Renault IMHO
However, I'd like to see him go to Renault next season alongside Nick and Piquet will have to find something else to do.
Piquet vs Bourdais is a no brainer for Renault IMHO
#94
wingwalker
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Posted 19 September 2008 - 14:52
It would be a terrible injustice if Bourdais was without drive next season.
And I'm not saying so only because I find shots of his wife among the highlights of every F1 broadcast
And I'm not saying so only because I find shots of his wife among the highlights of every F1 broadcast
#95
Risil
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Posted 24 September 2008 - 12:29
Reading Bourdais's comments about the Singapore circuit -- it would be a terrible shame for Formula One to lose such an articulate, frank and obviously intelligent driver. Obviously his range of experience is greater than probably anyone in F1 at the moment, and Toro Rosso must be less stifling than a number of other teams to a driver wanting to speak freely (Vettel talks well, too, for instance); but Bourdais would really be a great loss to the series, leaving his obvious talent aside.
#96
potmotr
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Posted 24 September 2008 - 22:35
I think he certainly deserves a second season. He's been learning and hasn't been as much of a diaster as, say, Piquet.
#97
Slowinfastout
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Posted 24 September 2008 - 22:45
Originally posted by Risil
Reading Bourdais's comments about the Singapore circuit -- it would be a terrible shame for Formula One to lose such an articulate, frank and obviously intelligent driver. Obviously his range of experience is greater than probably anyone in F1 at the moment, and Toro Rosso must be less stifling than a number of other teams to a driver wanting to speak freely (Vettel talks well, too, for instance); but Bourdais would really be a great loss to the series, leaving his obvious talent aside.
That's a very nice way of putting it!
Bourdais is very good at explaining complicated stuff a bit like Alex Wurz is.. and he even doesn't shy away from self-criticism, a trait that wasn't particularly apparent during his Champ-Car years, for obvious reasons
Personally, I always thought it was a shame Bourdais wasn't offered a good race seat in F1 earlier... I hope he stays in F1 and that his car is gonna be competitive.Rosberg isn't bad too to explain stuff, btw.. big
to those drivers who can talk to the fans properly.
#98
santori
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Posted 24 September 2008 - 22:46
I rate Bourdais very highly but I don't see any reason to rate Piquet's season below his. They both should stay.
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#100
pingu666
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Posted 25 September 2008 - 03:04
Originally posted by Slowinfastout
That's a very nice way of putting it!
Bourdais is very good at explaining complicated stuff a bit like Alex Wurz is.. and he even doesn't shy away from self-criticism, a trait that wasn't particularly apparent during his Champ-Car years, for obvious reasons
Rosberg isn't bad too to explain stuff, btw.. big
fully agree with that, they treat you as a equal, and i think they really enjoy sharing what they know... thats the main reason i want him to stay, he makes being a f1 a far richer and interesting experience for the fans, and hes pretty much a good enough peddler to justify his place anyways.
