Channel Nine's '20 to 1; Great Aussie Specials' from the '50s and before
#1
Posted 02 November 2008 - 10:46
20 ; MacHealey
19 ; Day Special
18 ; Black Bess
17 ; Crowfoot Holden
16 ; Mountain Peugeot
15 ; Citroen Special, Wright etc.
14 ; The Prads
13 ; Chamberlain Special
12 ; Myers WM Special
11 ; MM Holden
10 ; Monza Molina
9 ; Patterson/Brydon TC Special
8 ; Kleinig Hudson
7 ; Stewart MG
6 ; Wylie Javelin
5 ; Ausca
4 ; Dalro Jaguar
3 ; Zephyr Special
2 ; Tornado
1 ; Maybachs
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#2
Posted 02 November 2008 - 11:51
But can I place my order for the DVD anyway
#3
Posted 02 November 2008 - 18:29
VR has already done a good piece of the Zephyr Spl and the Crowfoot Holden, and Simon Taylor has done good job with a test and history of one of the Maybach derivatives in C&SC this month, as did Mick Walsh IIRC some time back. I am sure the Dalro has been done in recent times, but I also have a piece from T&CC from 1988 with it tested at Amaroo plus history, and Nick Brittan did an article on something like it years ago, in the files here, but currently hiding, a yellow single seater IIRC.
It would be critical to have someone who could do the cars justice, but I am sure that there is the talent to write about them and there is a ready readership, I am also sure, if only as an antidote to the usual potboilers about the same-old-same-old-cars of which we bore so easily, but which give the editors a buzz.
gets off soap box and exits left.
Roger Lund
#4
Posted 02 November 2008 - 19:27
The Tomlinson MG TA... what about it? How could it be ignored?
I have, of course, some personal favourites and you've already got the Norholfordor and the Tornado on the list. But what of the Ranford Chrysler, that ran the Reed cars hard for their money in its debut race at Narrogin, or the Double 8, that was right in the thick of that battle?
And what about the Rex Law car, the Regal? With a chassis made in 1911, it held the outright lap record at Lowood in 1951, a car with a wonderful history and the typical ignominious end.
#5
Posted 02 November 2008 - 21:28
Dick's original list seemed to confined to cars of national significance, either because of their successes or interesting design. When I was thinking of what to add I dismissed the WA cars on the basis that (as far as I can recall off the top of my head) they didn't achieve much outside WA.
The Double 8 would be a worthwhile addition, though - if only for the impact it made abroad
Should we start with a list of 100 and whittle it down?
#6
Posted 02 November 2008 - 21:37
However, two cars that spring readily to mind for inclusion are:
Decca Special - built at a time when the Lotus XI was still current and a very successful car with a factory-like quality and appearance.
Nedloh Special - Wally Russell's very fast little Holden-engined car built, I believe, on an upturned pre-war Riley chassis and was very competitve well into the early 1960's.
Derek
#7
Posted 02 November 2008 - 22:16
Originally posted by David McKinney
Perhaps we need a definition of "special"?
Dick's original list seemed to confined to cars of national significance, either because of their successes or interesting design. When I was thinking of what to add I dismissed the WA cars on the basis that (as far as I can recall off the top of my head) they didn't achieve much outside WA.....
I think that any car that contested the AGP should be considered, which I admit does really open up the scope of the list. That the Ranford Chrysler, for instance, should run in third place in that race for quite some time shows that it was no mean contender.
I could also argue that Black Bess was a bit ordinary. Jim Gullan, after driving it, was astounded at its poor driveability yet Whiteford achieved great things with it.
When it's all said and done, those early post-war AGPs particularly were loaded down with some very ordinary cars. But some of them rose from the ranks and did very well, can we now deny them a little time in the spotlight?
I mentioned the Rex Law Regal... this car actually led the 1949 AGP for a short distance (I have the colour movie of this, quite incredible) and ultimately finished in fifth place despite having to nurse its tyres. It won some local hillclimbs and races at Lowood and Strathpine and held the Lowood lap record for a couple of years. Its only interstate trip was to Bathurst, where it failed to do much to make an impression.
On the other hand, there was a high level of 'ordinariness' about the George Reed cars. The black car, which IIRC almost won the '48 AGP, was a very ordinary car while the red and white cars that followed were almost the same but from a slightly later era.
In truth, much of what many of these cars achieved was down to the drivers. Black Bess in particular, but others too.
.....Should we start with a list of 100 and whittle it down?
Maybe that's a good idea... but I would frankly preclude the Decca because of its leanings towards being pretty much a replica of some of the production sports racers from England of the late fifties.
#8
Posted 02 November 2008 - 23:28
The criteria I had in mind for GREATNESS were, success/ excellence of design and construction/longevity so this would rule out some contenders especially those that ran for only one season and as Ray pointed out the "ordinariness" of some, such as some of the V8's would rule them out. Then there are so many good MG specials, which ones are worthy of the inclusion. Probably the top ten are OK but the next ten may need revising.
So does anyone else want to have a go at revising the list.
Roger, maybe Patrick Quinn would think this was a good basis for a future article in Vintage Racecar.
#9
Posted 05 November 2008 - 06:34
where the Whitemouse, Plymouth Special,TS Special and BRM Morgan ,and all still running in Historics
although the BRM Morgan is a Sportscar.
#10
Posted 05 November 2008 - 08:29
I proposed the Ranford Chrysler, which is notably missing from your list, because of its great showing in the Australian Grand Prix. But it's also much more of an interesting car than the Dwyer Plymouth and the TS, mixing a greater array of mechanicals to achieve the pace it was able to turn on.
#11
Posted 05 November 2008 - 09:30
#12
Posted 06 November 2008 - 01:11
The Prads and Ausca,Dalro Jag, various MGs and other specials are still raced in historics and are variously fast and exciting,immaculate or rough as guts,driven well within their limits sometimes,or in regularity.The Sharp Holden was impressive at the last Phillip Island doing 2.03s,the iron headed grey motor tarted up and looking flash!The Ausca did 1.56 and won,the Prad 1.59 with crossflow head.
As well a lot of the original drivers are still hale and hearty for the time being.Now is the time to sit em down and let them tell the camera their stories.If their cars aren't around now then old footage would be found,and the result more coherent than what we have now which is 50% of S.F.A.
#13
Posted 06 November 2008 - 07:10
#14
Posted 06 November 2008 - 09:18
#15
Posted 06 November 2008 - 09:38
In the interim, the supercharger from that car had some further race experience when Peter Brock and Larry Perkins were running the supercharged Torana in Rallycross (and at the odd race meeting), and I think Harry might have used it on his TC Special too.
All the original parts are there, which is the case with a lot of the cars on your list, Dick. Some non-original stuff is on the Kleinig Hudson, it having been rebodied slightly differently to the way Gus McIntyre had it done. And the Dalro has been through a range of manifestations over the years. One of the Maybachs is also a re-creation, I seem to recall.
But all due credit to the people who've done these cars, they are great cars and we wouldn't be able to enjoy their presence today if they hadn't put in the hard yards over the years.
#16
Posted 06 November 2008 - 10:20
#17
Posted 06 November 2008 - 10:44
#18
Posted 06 November 2008 - 12:33
I found the person who'd been a close helper on the car. And, of course, I spoke to his widow, which was a real eye opener.
It really was a very small car:
Fishermens Bend, 1954
It had been, though, tested on the Geelong Road:
Mountain's ability to draw a pit crew was matched by his choice of charming ladies. Locals pitched in to help him at Southport, which was actually his honeymoon... the bride is the classy looking one:
And here it is with a bunch of other cars, mostly Specials and some of them Dick knows intimately:
All of these photos have been scanned from the album that Ian Tate acquired with the wreck.
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#20
Posted 07 November 2008 - 02:55
What about the TB Special there?
#21
Posted 07 November 2008 - 03:15
#22
Posted 07 November 2008 - 03:30
Isn't that the Alf Najar TB?
#23
Posted 07 November 2008 - 06:05
#24
Posted 07 November 2008 - 09:15
If only I could find one of my AGP books I would have known.
Now, Dick, if you have a pic of the Richardson Ford-on-a-Whippet this would be a very good time to post it. Preferably from the early days, when it wasn't as low as it was built up later.
#26
Posted 07 November 2008 - 10:11
I knew you'd come through. And I guess you have more from the same box of slides?
#27
Posted 07 November 2008 - 11:45
#28
Posted 08 November 2008 - 14:09
Whilst BB Searching for something else, I came across this thread on Australasian specials.
http://forums.autosp...ghlight=Morrari
Roger Lund.
#29
Posted 08 November 2008 - 22:49
#30
Posted 08 November 2008 - 23:28
Roger
#31
Posted 27 July 2009 - 14:54
If TV could be prodded into interest ,a big factor must be whether the cars still exist and can do some laps.What would the top 20 list look like with this criterion?
The Prads and Ausca,Dalro Jag, various MGs and other specials are still raced in historics and are variously fast and exciting,immaculate or rough as guts,driven well within their limits sometimes,or in regularity.The Sharp Holden was impressive at the last Phillip Island doing 2.03s,the iron headed grey motor tarted up and looking flash!The Ausca did 1.56 and won,the Prad 1.59 with crossflow head.
As well a lot of the original drivers are still hale and hearty for the time being.Now is the time to sit em down and let them tell the camera their stories.If their cars aren't around now then old footage would be found,and the result more coherent than what we have now which is 50% of S.F.A.
#32
Posted 27 July 2009 - 15:00
Iwonder why the Sharp Holden would not make the 20 - 1If TV could be prodded into interest ,a big factor must be whether the cars still exist and can do some laps.What would the top 20 list look like with this criterion?
The Prads and Ausca,Dalro Jag, various MGs and other specials are still raced in historics and are variously fast and exciting,immaculate or rough as guts,driven well within their limits sometimes,or in regularity.The Sharp Holden was impressive at the last Phillip Island doing 2.03s,the iron headed grey motor tarted up and looking flash!The Ausca did 1.56 and won,the Prad 1.59 with crossflow head.
As well a lot of the original drivers are still hale and hearty for the time being.Now is the time to sit em down and let them tell the camera their stories.If their cars aren't around now then old footage would be found,and the result more coherent than what we have now which is 50% of S.F.A.
#33
Posted 27 July 2009 - 15:12
#34
Posted 27 July 2009 - 22:47
I hope to be there, but I don't think I could justify it unless AGT is there...
#35
Posted 28 July 2009 - 04:40
#36
Posted 24 September 2009 - 22:06
Originally posted by myself
Is there much information about that event available at this time?
I hope to be there, but I don't think I could justify it unless AGT is there...
I can't be there, which is a real shame...
I believe a full replica of AGT's MG Special will be there, however, I've heard Robbie Rowe's name mentioned among those who've been involved, but probably John Medley is more capable of explaining the whos and whats with all of that.
Instead of meeting up with Allan at Lobethal, I'm spending time with him at his son's place in Melbourne the following week. I've been asked to contribute to a 'living history' project, so that will be happening too. One of my aims is to ensure that Allan is soon set up as a guest at the IMMRC in Watkins Glen, I'm sure he will wow the crowd there, but I will be talking to him in depth about his pre-AGP racing and his views on racing that he saw after his crash.
#37
Posted 25 September 2009 - 11:48
Regards, ellrosso
#38
Posted 25 September 2009 - 13:40
A car not to be forgotten. What other car used Hillman uprights? And was built as a left hand drive car because that meant the rack had to be fitted that way? Or used wheels from a Tasman Lotus? Or, for that matter, stuck a Falcon 6 in the back?
I had the pleasure of racing in it a couple of times. Not a bad thing, but Gossy's victories in NSW racing were had only in carefully selected races.
#39
Posted 30 September 2009 - 12:04
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#40
Posted 03 October 2009 - 13:27
#41
Posted 03 October 2009 - 14:21
But it was such an ugly beast!
As for the Holden Special above, an interesting car. Let me see if I remember all the details:
Peugeot 203/403 front end.
Holden engine with triple SUs... canted over, was it not?
MG TC gearbox on its side with the lever bent up to be in the right spot for the driver's right hand.
Skoda rear end, swing axle arrangement, but with the differential facing rearwards, drive from the very low tail shaft coming in under it and driving through a chain arrangement.
From memory, the car never raced at all 'in period', probably wasn't actually completed.
#42
Posted 03 October 2009 - 21:16
I had the opportunity to have a drive of it at a practice day at Amaroo some years ago and it was probably about the second worst racing car I have ever driven although subsequent owners may have managed to improve it. Definitely NOT a candidate for the top 20 !
Maybe the Tomlinson MG is though and I am still waiting for someone to propose a better list than my original in the first post of this thread.
Liked your pics of the "new" Tomlinson car, Ray.
#43
Posted 03 October 2009 - 21:46
Otherwise the thing would have run backwards... I think...
#44
Posted 03 October 2009 - 21:49