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HWM chassis info needed

Started by David Birchall , Dec 24 2008 23:33

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35 replies to this topic

#1 David Birchall

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 23:33

I am in the early stages of building a 'Special' to evoke the sports racers of around 1950:- The HWMs, the Frazer-Nash LM Rep, Ferrari 166SC etc.

To this end I have acquired a Spyder Corsa body from the UK. These are made to fit on a lengthened Spitfire/GT6 chassis. The engine will be an Alfa 2 litre with 5 speed.
I have decided that these chassis, good though they are, are too mundane and have decided to build my own chassis based on the HWM but using the Spitfire front suspension and modified GT6 rear, to save time and effort.
Does anyone have any drawings or good photos of the HWM chassis? Or suggestions?

See http://www.corsaspyder.com/ for info on the body.

#2 David Birchall

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 21:38

Not one response?
Except for a couple of pm (Thank you Doug and Patrick)

Do I detect a feeling of disapproval?
Would it be better to spend 200,000 on a replica of a Frazer-Nash LM Replica?

#3 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 22:13

I can get you detailed photos of this one next week, but it 'aint no original, its a good copy.
Denis Geary's quite original though.;)

Posted Image

Andrew

#4 David Birchall

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 22:17

He has a well used look to him doesn't he?
Thanks Andrew, I would appreciate that.

#5 Mistron

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 23:05

I have an article fron The Autocar, 1952 which has a Berris Cuttaway of the HWM

Only problem is I don't have a date....

It's reproduced in a compilation book caller 'interesting competition cars by Unique Motor books.

I'm happy to scan a copy of the 3 pages, but the quality is not great to start with - it's one of those books which looks like it was 'produced' by photocopying the original articles

But, the book also contains details of a lot of other similar cars - HAR, HRG etc, so might be worth seeking out.

Details are :

ISBN 1 84155 466 9
Unique motor books
PO Box 2795
Hockley
Essex
SS5 4BL
01702 207384

I got my copy from Motor Books

Hope this helps.

Oh, and I thoroughly approve of people building period style specials - I have a simplified split beam spaceframed ford special chassis (based not too loosley on a set of S1 eleven plans I happened to have) at the drawing board/model stage which I'm designing to take a period special body (need to extend garage first....)

good luck, and keep us posted.

Let me know if you want a copy of the article

#6 RogerFrench

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 05:40

I am away from home, so cannot check, but I think the Alf Francis book (Racing Mechanic) has some HWM chassis photographs.

#7 brucemoxon

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 05:47

Or even a phone call to Motor Sport, as Simon Taylor owns one. Maybe you could get some photos, at least.

Bruce Moxon

#8 dbw

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 06:05

david..

save time and $$$ and find a good early kougar-jag.

#9 David Birchall

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:20

Originally posted by dbw
david..

save time and $$$ and find a good early kougar-jag.

I had thought of that!
There was one on ebay last week

However, I already bought the CorsaSpyder body and a GT6 chassis....

The Alf Francis book does have a series of photos of the chassis being made.

It also occurred to me that "Sports Cars Illustrated" (Aug '56 I think) did a big article on the HWM becoming the Stovebolt Special. I use to have a copy, I will have to track down another.

#10 Gordon Graham

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 08:18

"The Design and Behaviour of the Racing Car" by Moss and Pomeroy has a good cutaway of Moss's HWM-Alta (from The Motor, by Riche)

#11 Mistron

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:55

There was at least one photo of the Stovebolt in C&SC during a complete strip down at Peter Dentys works a few years ago.

No doubt many more were taken when it was down to the bare chassis

Does MrTaylor not post here ocassionally? if not, his email address appears in the front of C&SC each month

#12 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 21:26

pity you have already got the body & chassis, this rep is for sale too, not much money either.

Posted Image

-you should have the photos by now, any problems let me know & I'll send again, can we have some of your snow please?

Andrew

#13 David Birchall

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 23:15

Thanks, Andrew-I did send you a reply yesterday-perhaps all our snow has slowed transmission times..... :wave:

What's the background of this car-locally built?

'Owmuchdoeseewanferit?

#14 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 02:13

Built in New Zealand 15 years or so ago, a very detailed exact copy, I am told the original is in the UK but someone here (like Ray) might know more about it as it is a quite well known car. I think Sir Stirling attacked a 250F with it at a recent GP by reversing into the Maser.

I'll email you the owners details as I have no idea on price!

Andrew

#15 David McKinney

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:19

I believe several of these replicas were laid down, though I don't know how many were completed
The original came home to Blighty in 1993

#16 fivestar

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 08:52

David,

Can I offer the following url as an malternative.

http://www.burlingto...internet.co.uk/

read about the Burlington arrow and then maybe purchase the complete CD although you really only need the chassis plans.

nalternatively drive up to Mr. arnold copy the chassis plans he got for his Alta #57n chassis and attach the Triumph suspension similar to the original EOY8 idea.

have fun and post the finished result.

Mike[5*]

#17 David Birchall

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 17:04

Originally posted by fivestar
David,

Can I offer the following url as an malternative.

http://www.burlingto...internet.co.uk/

read about the Burlington arrow and then maybe purchase the complete CD although you really only need the chassis plans.

nalternatively drive up to Mr. arnold copy the chassis plans he got for his Alta #57n chassis and attach the Triumph suspension similar to the original EOY8 idea.

have fun and post the finished result.

Mike[5*]

Hmmm, an AltaAlfa.....

#18 David Birchall

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 03:01

Today I picked up a copy of 'Sports Cars Illustrated', September 1956 issue from our wonderful local automotive treasure trove 'Wilkinsons Automobilia'. The cover photo and the main article inside are on the transformation of the HWM F2 that Moss drove, and that starred in the movie "The Racers" into the Stovebolt Special, now owned by Simon Taylor.

I had not read this story in many years-despite phoning Tom Carstens on a regular basis in the early eighties to talk to him about his Lister Chev and Lotus Nineteen. Carstens seriously re-engineered the HWM, retaining the chassis and body (both modified) but replacing the engine, gearbox, brakes, radiator, moving the firewall back, seriously modifying the rear suspension etc. The car is now in reality, a Special (Capitalised)!

Another source of HWM info that I have found is "Automobile Quarterly" Vol 16 #1. This is an in-depth history of HWM with wonderful period photos.

Edit: Automobile Quarterly vol 45 #2 has a full article on the Stovebolt Special I just learned.

Just for the record.

#19 fivestar

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 05:06

hi Mistron,

When did you purchase this book. I have looked at Unique motorbooks website and the book you mention is not listed.

thanks for info.

Mike [5*]

PS: Another interesting book is THE ALTA AND CONNAUGHT CARS, also by Unique Motor Books. Lots of cutaway drawings etc.

#20 fivestar

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 01:16

David,
May I ask what you have finally decided to do for a chassis for your special?
rgds - Mike[ 5*]

#21 john medley

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 02:31

My understanding is that the detailed drawings for the "NZ Replica" HWMs are in Western Australia

#22 David Birchall

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 16:19

Originally posted by fivestar
David,
May I ask what you have finally decided to do for a chassis for your special?
rgds - Mike[ 5*]

No final decision yet--I am working on extending my garage so that I actually have room to work on it! Also just bought a lathe so I can make parts.

Fellow TNFer Miles Fenton came over and between us we decided to modify the 'Spyder Corsa' body I have so that the cockpit is moved back six inches and the engine bay lengthened by a similar amount. This will allow me to fit an Alfa 2600 engine :blush:

John Medley: do you know who in WA has the drawings? I just want a general diagram - nothing precise.

David B

#23 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 11:29

Just scanned logo so thought to share. But why the bird?

#24 David Birchall

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 01:06

Since Arjan reopened this thread I will post some photos!
My main inspirations for my 'Special' are the HWMs and the FN LeMans Rep, plus of course the Maser A6GCS etc. The HWMs used 3" tubing and the Frazer Nashes 4", so I compromised (I always compromise...) at 3.5"

After much consideration I decided to go with the Alfa 2600 engine. It looks the part, sounds glorious, will rev to 8000 rpm all day and is surprisingly cheap and available: $600 for engine and gearbox! The person examining is fellow TNFer Miles Fenton who, as a designer and artist, has been giving me invaluable help.

Miles and I constructed the engine bulkhead:

I fitted the fuel tank today and things are starting to look quite crowded-I am beginning to appreciate the 'packaging' that is required in this sort of work.

#25 David Birchall

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 21:15

The car-I can call it that now is on it's wheels -16" of course-and is starting to look like something:

The grill took Miles Fenton and I about 40 hours to make-inspired by the Alfa 8C35:

We moved the cockpit back six inches both to allow room for the long engine and to improve the look:

Edited by David Birchall, 20 April 2010 - 00:43.

#26 Peter Horsman

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 07:16

Congratulations. She looks beautiful.

#27 David Birchall

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 14:56

Thank you Peter, I was beginning to sense disapproval again...

No comments on the tires? They are a new line from Coker Tire in the States-a radial carcass with the tread of a fifties Englebert racing tire. I dunno how they work but they certainly look the business and were cheaper than Blockleys.

#28 Dutchy

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 14:58

They look very nice indeed

#29 fivestar

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 01:10

Hi David,
Hows your build coming on, is it roadworthy yet?
Mike [5*]

#30 David Birchall

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 16:21

Hi Mike, no unfortunately not! I ran into a temporary shortage of cash...
I should be back at it soon though.

#31 fivestar

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 02:11

Hi David,

Any further progress?

5*=Mike

Edited by fivestar, 26 August 2012 - 02:11.

#32 David Birchall

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:31

Mike, thank you for the interest. I have found that creating a car from more or less scratch is quite an undertaking! This photo shows the progress as of a couple of months ago-Alfa 2600 engine and 'box, Alfa brakes and chassis based on HWM/Frazer Nash/Lister practice:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

#33 terry mcgrath

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:31

It appears that the HWM Alta raced by Tony Gaze has been purchased in the UK and is on it way to Australia does anyone have further info
terry

#34 fivestar

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:50

hi David,

An email chat with Peter Webb about a run he just did to Whistler with 30 other old British cars reminded me of your project.

how are things moving on?, also any news about Ed Arnold's Alta rebuild?

cheers - Michael

#35 pacerman

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:17

It appears that the HWM Alta raced by Tony Gaze has been purchased in the UK and is on it way to Australia does anyone have further info
terry

Hi Terry, Sorry no info on that HWM (although I thought it was very reasonably priced) but I hope it is coming to Australia. I did however see Ralph Hough's ex Moss, Gaze, Davison HWM Jaguar (originally an Alta motor) out and about yesterday with the Hough Family!

#36 David Birchall

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:40

hi David,

An email chat with Peter Webb about a run he just did to Whistler with 30 other old British cars reminded me of your project.

how are things moving on?, also any news about Ed Arnold's Alta rebuild?

cheers - Michael

Hi Michael, I was en francais when you posted this so missed it. The special is coming on but slowly-I have been working on the body and making a new bonnet-since I extended the engine bay by six inches to accommodate the Alfa engine. Time seems to have speeded up lately... I have to put the project on hold for a while now as I investigate low compression in one cylinder of the DB2-I am not looking forward to that.

Ed is busy restoring his Salmson at the moment...

Edited by David Birchall, 06 October 2013 - 14:41.