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[Poll] New WDC system - Yes or No

Started by SB , Mar 17 2009 15:46

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271 replies to this topic

#51 Atreiu

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 18:08

Originally posted by babe

Hello.

Did you enjoy the end of last season's championship? You know, the exciting one in Brazil which went down to the last lap? How about the end of the '94 season, the '97, the '99 or 2007 season?

All those exciting races.

Did you?

Yes?

Well, I'm glad you did enjoy them, because you'll never, ever, ever see one again under this system.

What will happen is that one driver will be three wins ahead (but perhaps only six points in real terms) with two races to go, and that'll be it. Gone. Done.

Not to mention Schumacher winning the title in 2000 thanks to a blown Mercedes at Indy, instead of the thrilling and fantastic race at Suzuka. How memorable would that have been?
And LOL, imagine how ridiculous would the 2003 season have been with Ralf and Montoya splitting wins and serving the title on a golden plate to Schumacher...

The new point scheme does nothing except make dominances even more rewarding and knock the sense out of everything else.

#52 Nukle

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 18:35

Nonsense

#53 uffen

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 18:39

When the race doesn't get to halfway (I think) the points were split in half. So, the winner was awarded 10/2 = 5 points for the win, similarly down the line. This was the case for many years, I believe it still holds.

What happens now? The winner gets a half-win? The rest get half points? Or, the winner get a full "win" awarded but the rest get half points?

This FIA proposal has the effect of the old "drop the worst" system as used in the late 1980's, when only your eleven best scores counted, or the best from two half-seasons. It was a mess then and this system will be a mess in the future.

There was a reason points systems have been used in motor racing for years and years. It is fair, it is understandable and it awards a full season's worth of effort (except as noted above).

#54 mursuka80

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 18:41

Originally posted by Josta

The French don't actually invent anything. Even their fries were invented by the Beligians.

What can you expect from Surrender Monkeys ;)

#55 Neocom

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 18:48

I voted no, because I prefer 12-9 System. However I prefer the new system instead of 10-8 without medals.

#56 saudoso

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 18:49

The single, most effective measure to improve overtaking.

On the down side, penalties and accidents. Let's hope it stays under control...

#57 carbonfibre

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 18:52

No another case where the FIA just wants to take the most difficult route instead of the easy more effective and better way, which is to just give the winner more points compared to the 2nd place.

It's so so easy and here we go again.... :down:

#58 F1Fund

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:01

Why did I bother to participate in the survey because they clearly didn’t listen? I now know my place as a fan is worthless to the sport (if you can call it a sport these days).

Someone commented if Button/Rubens can win the first 6 races they would have the WDC. They may not need that many – the WDC could only need to win 3 races. If things are that close this season it’s not out of the question for there to be a number of winners. As teams progress they will come into play and top step could be occupied by a number of drivers. That would be good but the WDC would seem a bit of a farce.

I don’t see what was wrong with FOTA’s proposal.

#59 hunnylander

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:03

#60 BRK

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:08

Hold on-why is everybody assuming the Championship would end sooner under this system? I've always thought F1 has a way of sorting itself out so there's more than one driver that has a shot at the title until the very end of the season,and both usually have at least two/three wins to their name.

Unless we have a dominant driver in a dominant car (which hasn't happened for a while now and probably won't this season either),I don't really think the new system is going to affect the outcome of the c'ship much...

Under this system:

2008-Massa's 6 wins against Hamilton's 5: season won at the last race in Brazil.

2007-Raikkonen's 6 wins against Hamilton's 4: season won at Brazil,again.(because Hamilton could've won the Brazilian GP and finished the season tied for wins with Raikkonen)

2006-Schumacher's 7 wins against Alonso's 7: season won again at Brazil because neither Alonso nor Michael won the race and the points would've been considered.(with Alonso winning)

2005-Alonso's 7 wins against Raikkonen's 7 wins: season won AGAIN at the last race in China,for Raikonen had one more win than Alonso until he won at Shanghai.

How is this bad for the sport? No driver that has been consistent without winning races has won the title in the recent past-why should this season be any different?

#61 CaptnMark

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:12

Most wins = WDC champion is good and correct.

But the WDC championship should really have more difference between 1st and 2nd.

The 10-8-6... system is only good for WCC, where consistency should be rewarded.

#62 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:14

Originally posted by BRK

How is this bad for the sport? No driver that has been consistent without winning races has won the title in the recent past-why should this season be any different?

Why would any team let their 2nd driver (the one that didn't score a win first) take WDC chances away from the team?

Some past seasons could have been alot different under that new system..

#63 brunopascal

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:33

I'm all for awarding the winner of a race more than just 2 pts more than the guy in 2nd, or other incentives to go for the win, and have a race.

But this is RIDICULOUS!

:down:

#64 as65p

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:35

Somehow I still suspect the whole thing simply part of some political game going on behind the scenes. Hopefully the parties will find a solution that allows for a real-world points system come Melbourne.

If not, i.e. if they're serious... well, what the heck. I think I'll enjoy the races just as much and give the drivers championship the recognition it then deserves. Might even be more fun that way...

Long ago they killed real qualifying and real, full-to-empty tanks racing, both of which were far worse crimes than this joke. IMO.

#65 ogo

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:37

#66 BRK

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:38

The second driver rarely has as many wins as the team leader,so I don't see a team having a problem with one driver winning a couple of races while the other has won six or seven.If a situation similar to what McLaren had had in 2007 arises,then the usual team orders can be brought to bear,depending on what approach the management wishes to adopt or on how sensible the other driver is.(if they're hell-bent upon eating into each others' lead and destroying the other's chances of winning the title,then so be it-no difference to what has happened in the past,under the old system).Again,points aren't being rendered useless by the current idea.There's a very good chance that you'd end up with two drivers having an equal number of wins and the WDC decided over the points,so nothing would change on the tactical front either.

If anything,it would negate massive point differentials going into the fag end of the season,with driver X and his hundred point total/8 wins impossible to surpass by driver Y,lying second in the standings,and his 80 point total/7 wins: change of form for Y's team and two victories would change everything.

#67 4MEN

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:47

Originally posted by Bart
It'll be very amusing if the driver with the most points isn't WDC. Or if the driver with the second-highest number of wins doesn't come second. What a half-arsed mess. The FOTA proposal was far more sensible.

#68 panzani

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:51

That's a poll we all know the results even before voting, isn't it?

Sad day for F1... :mad:

And YES, I am sure the guy with more wins will have LESS points! And I'll act like a fanboy for this to happen the whole season!;)

#69 Francesc

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 19:55

Another stupid decision...

#70 wdh

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:11

Its bonkers.

The only explanation I can think of is that sMax wants to impress FOTA that he's the one that does the spanking.

A power trip.

However, I think it'll be today's other announcements that will be more likely to cause FOTA to pick up their ball and go to play elsewhere.
There could be a lot less than 20 cars on the FIA's "F1" grids in future years.
Maybe none.
Making the FIA's silly scoring systems somewhat irrelevant.

#71 Dalek Caan

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:13

I think it's a complete and utter disgrace. However, it means Hamilton now has a better chance at the WDC than he did last year!

#72 Phucaigh

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:17

If it ain't broke then don't try and fix it.

#73 TickTickBooom

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:18

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Oh, and NO!

#74 Francesc

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:19

Imagine
Hamilton wins 4 races and retires on the other 13 - 40 points
Raikkonen wins 3 races and finishes 2nd 10 times, retires on 4 races - 110 points

Who's world champion?? That shows how utterly stupid is this rule, or they change it, or F1 is dead :

#75 firebone

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:23

how cool would it be

going into the last race

and 18 different drivers have a win each :cool:

#76 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:24

It's about winning, that is what will make you WDC.

Win baby just win!!

:cool:

#77 undersquare

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:26

Originally posted by Rob

I'm starting my own rival series, anyone want to join?

Yup, count me in. How hard can it be?

If you call Silverstone, Imola, Indy etc. I'll call Toby Moody and a film company. Someone to call the teams, someone to call the TV companies and we're good to go.

Oh and someone for Bernie's role - a sh*t-stirrer to keep us in the news

#78 metz

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:26

Originally posted by firebone
how cool would it be

going into the last race

and 18 different drivers have a win each

Well, since there are only 17 races, we must assume that the FIA awarded 2 extra wins to someone they feel deserves it...;)

#79 Orin

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:28

Originally posted by Owen

The FIA just don't get it, do they?

The FIA is nothing more than a self-elected quango run for its own interests, headed by a disgusting president. Really, why are FOTA still in the series? The teams should seriously consider giving both Ecclestone and Mosley the boot and creating a series which doesn't extort silly money from fans, nor ask circuits to bankrupt themselves. Without the burden of CVC debt and Ecclestone's avarice such a series would thrive.

#80 panzani

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:31

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
It's about winning, that is what will make you WDC.

Win baby just win!!

Even batracer will become boring, KWSN! Everybody on pace 100% & aggro 100%!;)

Crash Fest!

#81 Pilla

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 20:47

Well Ferrari have a tough decision ahead of them

#82 Rob

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:08

Originally posted by undersquare

Yup, count me in. How hard can it be?

If you call Silverstone, Imola, Indy etc. I'll call Toby Moody and a film company. Someone to call the teams, someone to call the TV companies and we're good to go.

Oh and someone for Bernie's role - a sh*t-stirrer to keep us in the news .

Sounds fairly easy to me. I think we need someone to call Michelin - I think they'd be particularly interested

#83 barteks

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:12

#84 Rob

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:14

The petition is gathering speed now - as of 21:00 UK time, there are 1700 signatures.

#85 Nukle

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:25

Signed

#86 Massa_f1

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:26

Wont make a difference they wont change it back.

#87 Rob

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:28

Originally posted by Massa_f1
Wont make a difference they wont change it back.

Probably not. But we have a right to express our disgust, all the same.

#88 Rob

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:29

Originally posted by Rob
The petition is gathering speed now - as of 21:00 UK time, there are 1700 signatures.

Half an hour later and it's up to 1900 signatures. This thing's moving quickly!

#89 JPW

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:30

Originally posted by Rob
The petition is gathering speed now - as of 21:00 UK time, there are 1700 signatures.

LOL like that's gonna make any difference, 1700 against millions who don't give a damn, good luck :rolleyes:

#90 TickTickBooom

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:32

Originally posted by Nukle
Signed

Ditto.

#91 Rob

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:36

Originally posted by JPW

LOL like that's gonna make any difference, 1700 against millions who don't give a damn, good luck

Whether it makes any difference is not the point. It's important that fans be allowed a voice through which to express disgust at how the FIA is treating our sport.

#92 metz

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:38

The media and press need to make a big deal about the petitions.

#93 slideways

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:45

It's crap. The FOTA solution was a perfect solution.

#94 Rob

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:49

Originally posted by Rob

Half an hour later and it's up to 1900 signatures. This thing's moving quickly!

In 15 minutes we've had another 200. Wow.

#95 BullHead

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:50

Haven't voted yet - Honestly can't decide. WDC is something special and should I think reflect wins. However, as most on this thread are saying, consistency is a vital measure of a driver's skill. But think... WDC being won by consistency alone is not great really. To me consistency is well worth 2nd place, and so will be still by points. Also WCC will still count by points won't it? Consistency is rewarded still to the constructors, just the WDC will be decided by wins. I don't personally enjoy "stealth" WDC wins - points alone, not necessarily wins. Remember 2003, Kimi could have won that, but if he did it would have been by only winning 3 races (? correct me) compared to Shumi's tally of (?). Don't remember the figures but do remember it would have been bull.

That said - I don't see anything wrong with the 2008 points system, so why bother change things?

I guess Bernie and Max wanted drivers to need a win if it went down the wire.

Like I said, don't know. It doe's not make me immediately think NO like most people here. But I am still not sure that such a change is necessary. After all it has always been points that count. Maybe I'm convincing myself to a NO..... help me....

#96 peroa

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:50

Originally posted by metz
The media and press need to make a big deal about the petitions.

Won`t happen!

Precious press passes ...

#97 pino

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:51

Very stupid idea ! :down:

#98 JPW

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:51

Originally posted by Rob
Whether it makes any difference is not the point. It's important that fans be allowed a voice through which to express disgust at how the FIA is treating our sport.

A couple of thousand fans, mostly hardcore fans (like me) aren't going to make any difference whatsoever.

I really don't get this useless sign an internet petition thing, it won't change anything and nobody in power will notice anyway.

but good luck nonetheless :up:

#99 Apex

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:55

Of the possible systems they could have come up with, this has got to be the least intelligent of them all. Even the medals system would have been better because then everyone would use the same system. Now there are two separate point scoring systems being used at the same time, one for the title fight and another for the rest of the drivers. What the hell were the thinking? :confused:

I now hope the winner of this years title finishes as low as possible in the regular points table. I can only imagine the looks on the faces of Bernie & Max if, when the season is over, they have to tell the world that this year the guy who finished fourth is our new world champion.

Failing that, I'd like the standing in the WDC table before the last race to be something like this:

1. Lewis Hamilton, 6 wins, 110 points
2. Felipe Massa, 5 wins, 103 points

That way Hamilton can again secure the title with a 5th place.

Morons. :mad:

#100 Dolph

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 21:55

I like the new rules. This is because a guy finishing second every race has a too big of a chance of flukeing in to the drivers title. Just look at 2008 WRC championship as an example. If Loeb would have had a few technical mishaps at the end of the season he could have lost the title. Did Hirvonen deserve the title? Never. Also in 2003 if MS wouldn't have won the title with his 6 wins against Räikkönens 1 it would have been ridiculous.

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[Poll] New WDC system - Yes or No

Poll: [Poll] New WDC system - Yes or No (638 member(s) have cast votes)

#51 Atreiu

#52 Nukle

#53 uffen

#54 mursuka80

#55 Neocom

#56 saudoso

#57 carbonfibre

#58 F1Fund

#59 hunnylander

#60 BRK

#61 CaptnMark

#62 Slowinfastout

#63 brunopascal

#64 as65p

#65 ogo

#66 BRK

#67 4MEN

#68 panzani

#69 Francesc

#70 wdh

#71 Dalek Caan

#72 Phucaigh

#73 TickTickBooom

#74 Francesc

#75 firebone

#76 KWSN - DSM

#77 undersquare

#78 metz

#79 Orin

#80 panzani

#81 Pilla

#82 Rob

#83 barteks

#84 Rob

#85 Nukle

#86 Massa_f1

#87 Rob

#88 Rob

#89 JPW

#90 TickTickBooom

#91 Rob

#92 metz

#93 slideways

#94 Rob

#95 BullHead

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