Could an electric formula car series work?

Well, until recently even F1 race could be consisted to consist of several 'sprint races'- and I guess a 'quick change' battery systems could be easily developed instead of refuelling. Say, battery pack with quick release mechanism in car's floor that gets dropped when the car is raised for tyre change and new one is wheeled in and installed immediately...

Wait, wasn't it 600Km (380 miles) a day?

Dude, get your story straight.

Edited by Duc-Man, 10 September 2012 - 11:25.

Edited by Duc-Man, 10 September 2012 - 14:20.

Thank you, that was what I meant. If that works for a road car it is sure possible to have something similar in racing.
Ofcourse a racing version needs to be faster than 5 minutes.

Does it need to be batteries?

What about flywheel storage systems? Surely they could be charged more quickly and last longer?

Does it need to be batteries?

What about flywheel storage systems? Surely they could be charged more quickly and last longer?

Something like this.

What about flywheel storage systems? Surely they could be charged more quickly and last longer?

Any system that recharges by moving energy alone (eg electricity or mechanical work) across the system boundary will suffer to some extent from the following limitation. Say you have an energy storage device with enough capacity to deliver an average 200 kW for one hour. If wish to recharge that device in one minute, the charge rate will need to be 60 x 200 = 12,000 kW (plus perhaps 20% or more for charge/discharge ineffficiencies). To recharge in 6 seconds would require 120,000 kW (160,000 hp) - not easy to do, even mechanically via a shaft (assuming you have a source which is capable of that sort of power output.) You would probably need a "pit flywheel" which has been charging for the last hour while the car was out.

Note. Conventional refuelling involves moving matter (fuel) across the system boundary. This equates to a very high "recharge" rate due to the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels. One litre (quart) per second is equivalent to about 8,000 kW after allowing for IC engine conversion efficiency.

Porsche uses flywheel technology in their GT3 hybrid.

To recharge in 6 seconds would require 120,000 kW (160,000 hp) conversion efficiency.

http://scholar.sun.a...e/10019.1/17864 for flywheels, seems to suggest 400 Wh/kg based on 30 seconds of reading, roughly the same as a lithium primary cell, or 4 times that of a LiPo rechargeable cell.

So a flywheel could have the same energy density as the best batteries?

And it would, surely, last longer?

Yes, a 20 year no maintenance life is feasible, and useful, in things like solar cell power storage for remote microwave stations.

Edited by Wuzak, 15 September 2012 - 12:44.

But not for electric car use?

Edited by Paolo, 17 September 2012 - 15:00.

I would have been mega pissed if someone gave me less power than my brother or father.

Or reduced it because i was trying to drift the thingy.

But if it goes faster than those what is it? 5hp? 15hp carts im all for it anyway.

Edited by Rasputin, 19 September 2012 - 21:12.

The KERS-thing is another myth, if you bring a 700 kg car from 300 km/h to standstill and recover all of that energy, no brakes, it's still no more than 0.675 kWh, or 0.07 liter of gas.

Erm . . . let's be consistent here. "the electric drive-train is some 2.5-3 times more efficient than a gasoline one" So your braking example is equivalent to 0.175 - 0.21 litre of gas not 0.07 litre.

Edited by Rasputin, 20 September 2012 - 05:48.

The 800 kJ per lap from 2014 and on, still represents no more 0.06 liter of gasoline per lap, even with the factor 2.5 for the higher efficiency. 60 laps is 3.6 liters.

It is 2MJ per lap recovered, and up to 4MJ used per lap, with a maximum storage of 4MJ.

So, using your maths it works out at 9l over 60 laps.

Edited by MatsNorway, 20 September 2012 - 10:28.

http://www.gizmag.co...one-kers/11324/

30kg in 2009 according to that article

Edited by MatsNorway, 20 September 2012 - 15:11.

Edited by MatsNorway, 20 September 2012 - 15:20.

Just what they have on the site: Kart has a differential (!) and front-rear brakes.

...no more 0.06 liter of gasoline per lap, even with the factor 2.5 for the higher efficiency. 60 laps is 3.6 liters.

...your maths it works out at 9l over 60 laps.

Your going off topic but in practical terms F1 teams got few limits from 2014 on their KERS system.

1Kw is not uncommon on RC car motors

they weight in at 170grams typically.

Similar figures leaves you with the motor alone at around 28kg.

Efficiency will likely go up with the size of the motor but since cooling becomes harder due to packaging im guessing the weight is not far of.

Since they will struggle with harvesting due to traction, batteries will be smaller but support higher burst.

Does anyone have a idea of the current motor weight?

So we can estimate more precise

Edited by Rasputin, 20 September 2012 - 18:05.

Sorry but I don't understand any italian and I didn't find anywhere a button to change the language.

Edited by Rasputin, 28 September 2012 - 05:50.

...induction transfer of electricity?

450 kg for 56 kWh, the latter translated to 5.9 liters of gas, or 14.8 liters with an "efficiency factor" of 2.5.

Say there were no rules just safety requirements, must be open wheel, must be electric (battery not hydrogen), everything else free (?). Could such a class work, would the cars be fast?

Edited by Kelpiecross, 01 October 2012 - 04:39.

...
To continue on this same theme - there are model electric motors of 3 horsepower that can be held in the palm of one hand. Back in my days in industry, a 3HP motor was 415 volts AC and was not able to be lifted by one person. Being pretty ignorant of "electrickery" - how can the model motors be so powerful for their size?

I suspect that the paramount reason is the brushless motors with 100 000 Rpm?