So why is it called a global sport....

If practically ALL the races are timed for showing times convenient for Europeans. Seriously, it's getting ridiculous -Melbourne was at 2AM, Malaysian Grand Prix is at 5AM eastern US, China is at 3AM The situation is equally dire for those in South America, by the way, where F1 fans are perhaps far more numerous than they are in U.S. It used to be that I got up early to watch the European races and had the convenience of watching races in Asia and Brasil/Canada at a reasonably convenient time like midnight or 1AM. I figured that was reasonably fair: the races were held at basically the same local time, but were spread around the globe, so you got stuck with whatever timezone you were in (win some, loose some type of thing). No longer.

If you want global audience tuning in, Bernie, you may consider doing it so that someone besides those in the EU can tune in. And don't act surprised that F1 is not popular in US - you have to be seriously dedicated (and have no job to go to on Monday) to watch anything in those ungodly hours. And, most certainly, NEW fan is going to waste his time (unless he is on cocaine or has serious sleep issues). Even yours truly, a pretty hardcore fan of the sport who very much enjoys watching races with a live timing screen on a laptop nearby, is going to just Tivo the Malaysian and Chinese races. Just not worth it.

Rant over.

Well I'm european and I don't even like the new timetables!!!! It was part of the ritual to stay up with friends untill 3AM to watch the season opener in Melbourne. I loved getting up early to watch Malasia. I really liked the idea of 'going with the timezones'. This moving schedules is no fun!!!!!

Yes, this rescheduling and bit-by-bit delaying of the race start every year is ridiculous. Race should be at a proper local time, period. If a fan is interested enough they will make time to watch the race.

I never had a problem waking up at 04:45 in the morning to watch Australian GP qualifying, but ever since 2000 they have been moving qualifying a bit later...until this year's ludicrous timetable..

Global because they race all over the world -its not a national or even European series.

However - the TV audience and I guess the majority of the sponsorship money is derived from Europe.


If the money was in South America I am sure Bernie would be moving the races to prime time there.

Agree entirely as i have always preferred the peace and quiet of an early morning fly away race and will this mean that the Brazilian race will start at 7am local time to suit the European market or just disappear completely.

What are the chances of Bernie actually listening to the real fans of F1

Meh, there are, what, 207 countries in the world? Yet the Summer Olympics have been held in less than 20, only one of which is south of the equator, and the Winter Games have never been held anywhere NEAR the equator. F1 at least has held events in every continent. If there were more interested in Asia, the market would be turned towards the Orient. Makes sense for Bernie to accommodate the most numerous viewers.

As most of the Major sports events in the world timetables are dictated by needs of US TV it is a nuisence when the Europeans have upper hand.I would think majority of Bernie's TV income comes from Europe so bingo.I watched it at 2.30 in morning but its much easier this weekend and then will be ready for NASCAR

Originally posted by ensign14
[T]he Winter Games have never been held anywhere NEAR the equator.

Coz all the snow would melt silly!

When I was younger I would get up or stay up to watch the race whenever it was on. Now I the DVR is my friend and I watch the race when I get up. My guess this is becoming the norm for a lot of people. They should just schedule the races so they make sense for people in the stands. The TV audience is going to find F1 whenever it's on.

The thought of watching a recorded new F1 race seems wrong to me.

Part of the appeal is watching it live, where anything could happen, and knowing that this is happening right now in some other part of the world.

Psychological I guess.

Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
The thought of watching a recorded new F1 race seems wrong to me.

Part of the appeal is watching it live, where anything could happen, and knowing that this is happening right now in some other part of the world.

Psychological I guess.

The live bit really is the essence of it, else they may just as well record and edit it (save the FIA a job ;) ) and put it out at the best times in each locale.

Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
The thought of watching a recorded new F1 race seems wrong to me.

Part of the appeal is watching it live, where anything could happen, and knowing that this is happening right now in some other part of the world.

Psychological I guess.

I used to be a purist in that sense. Then I became a dad and sleep became the gold standard. Besides it's fun the watch the race with my son. My wife walked in during the Aussie GP and saw him sitting on the couch in rapt attention causing her to say, "Oh god, another one".

I just make sure to go to the TV first thing to avoid spoilers and pretend.;)

Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu

Psychological I guess.

Live timing...

Especially qualifying. The camera only ever follows one or two cars at most, and when they all start crossing the line at the end of each period, I stop watching the TV because it tells me nothing - in fact the digital delay means I know who is on pole before the TV shows me.

Impossible with a DVR.

Originally posted by ensign14
Meh, there are, what, 207 countries in the world? Yet the Summer Olympics have been held in less than 20, only one of which is south of the equator, and the Winter Games have never been held anywhere NEAR the equator. F1 at least has held events in every continent. If there were more interested in Asia, the market would be turned towards the Orient. Makes sense for Bernie to accommodate the most numerous viewers.

I find your comparisons with the olympics ridiculous!

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Live timing...

Especially qualifying. The camera only ever follows one or two cars at most, and when they all start crossing the line at the end of each period, I stop watching the TV because it tells me nothing - in fact the digital delay means I know who is on pole before the TV shows me.

Impossible with a DVR.

Qualifying died when they started making them run race fuel loads. Now it tells you nothing no matter when you watch it ;)

Originally posted by AyePirate


Qualifying died when they started making them run race fuel loads. Now it tells you nothing no matter when you watch it ;)

It tells you same as it always did. Where they will start on the grid.

It is a real pain, i'll stay up until 1am or wake as early as 5am but anything in between just butchers your night and your sleep. I am too old for this.

I think it devalues F1 when they monkey around with start times to suit a TV audience. People who want to watch it will record it if the time is inconvenient. I know watching "live" has appeal but it is the same TV show recorded or not.

The paying fans in the stands should take the honours. Run it during normal local hours (typically in the afternoon) and stop the nonsense.

The biggest nonsense is racing at night, but that's been discussed elsewhere.

I always watch the races live, but this latest go 'round with start times is bullshit. Even at Indy, the time was changed to noon local. By 2pm we were finished, instead of just starting. I have an extreme distaste for the times being changed merely to favor the 'man down the pub' and think that every race should be held at the exact same local time, and let the chips fall where they may.

I think this subject should be brought up in the next FOTA fan survey.

Originally posted by Neophiliac
If practically ALL the races are timed for showing times convenient for Europeans. Seriously, it's getting ridiculous -Melbourne was at 2AM, Malaysian Grand Prix is at 5AM eastern US, China is at 3AM The situation is equally dire for those in South America, by the way, where F1 fans are perhaps far more numerous than they are in U.S. It used to be that I got up early to watch the European races and had the convenience of watching races in Asia and Brasil/Canada at a reasonably convenient time like midnight or 1AM. I figured that was reasonably fair: the races were held at basically the same local time, but were spread around the globe, so you got stuck with whatever timezone you were in (win some, loose some type of thing). No longer.

If you want global audience tuning in, Bernie, you may consider doing it so that someone besides those in the EU can tune in. And don't act surprised that F1 is not popular in US - you have to be seriously dedicated (and have no job to go to on Monday) to watch anything in those ungodly hours. And, most certainly, NEW fan is going to waste his time (unless he is on cocaine or has serious sleep issues). Even yours truly, a pretty hardcore fan of the sport who very much enjoys watching races with a live timing screen on a laptop nearby, is going to just Tivo the Malaysian and Chinese races. Just not worth it.

Rant over.

Moan, moan, moan.
If you don't like it then watch another sport. F1 is a global sport, it races across the globe and it is shown across the globe. The World doesn't end at the U.S border you know, the USA, believe it or not is just one country.

You're right F1 isn't popular in the USA - it's too complicated for many Americans whom prefer simpler forms of racing so with that in mind why would the F1 organisers want to alienate their already loyal fans by changing schedules so the odd few Americans can watch in comfort?

Also, what is "pretty hardcore"? You're either hardcore or you're not, there is no in-between, no pretty. One or the other. I suspect you're the other.

I can't understand all this whingeing and moaning about the GP start times. I love F1 and I will watch it whenever it is on. And I love the early-morning races because they feel "special"...posting on the Live Forum has really added to this. I couldn't sleep before the race anyway, because I was too excited! You can always get some sleep after the race...though not in my case as I wanted to watch the re-run at 1pm.

Originally posted by Apollonius
why would the F1 organisers want to alienate their already loyal fans by changing schedules so the odd few Americans can watch in comfort?

No there are much better ways they can alienate their loyal fans, like taking their race away and moving it to a soleless place in the middle of a desert.

The new schedules have disrupted my plans far more than the old ones would have

Gotta say I preferred the old start time for Aus, back from the pub at 2am, couple of friends round to watch bit of chat and alcoholic sustanance, die by lap 34....

This time I'd forgotten it was 7am start jesus Red Bull and matchsticks please! Sunday from 6am to 12am does not exist used to be only Sepang being the real pain now theres a heap!

Originally posted by ensign14
Makes sense for Bernie to accommodate the most numerous viewers.

I get that. But I thought Bernie wanted to get global audience and expand F1's reach. If that's the goal, then he can forget about it, because as I said earlier, NEW fans (the ones you're trying to get hooked) outside of Europe are simply not going to watch. No new TV fans means no advertising dollars for the networks, no lucrative sale of TV rights by Bernie in the country, no drivers from said country trying to get into the sport, no teams (serious ones anyway) trying to get in, and no new sponsors for the existing teams from the country in question. F1 stays a European past time and it's ultimate growth potential is stunted.

Changing the schedules to suit the audience that is ALREADY pretty dedicated and the fan base that is already quite extensive is short-term thinking: it gets Bernie more cash now, but is probably a poor idea in the long run.

Originally posted by CONOSUR
I think this subject should be brought up in the next FOTA fan survey.

Right let's ask the average European racefan:

- would you prefer to get out of bed at 4am or at 8am to watch a race?
- would you like to watch the Singapore race early Sunday morning or at 2pm?

What do you think that the vast majority of european racefans would vote for?

Formula One is a global sport, however the vast majority of its fanbase is in Europe and as such the sport will be tailored in such a way.

Nascar is no different, the its core fanbase is in the south and the Eastern Time Zone. The October race in California begins 10.30am Pacific so the race is broadcast at 2.30pm Eastern.

Originally posted by Clatter


No there are much better ways they can alienate their loyal fans, like taking their race away and moving it to a soleless place in the middle of a desert.

Their race? The last time I checked Europe still had the majority of races. It wouldn't make any difference to me if the Brit GP was dropped from the calender as it's actually cheaper to attend one of the numerous GPs on the continent anyway.

We're in the US and this really sucks!
I can't understand why Bernie moves all the races from Europe (GB, France, more?) then dictates the TV schedule accommodate Europe.
I suggest maybe he's lost his brain to greediness and making divorce cash, while the rest of the F1 fanworld, from Asia to the Western Hemisphere, have to suffer.
Man has a lot of kharma to pay, and it's coming, for certain.

Originally posted by Apollonius



Their race? The last time I checked Europe still had the majority of races. It wouldn't make any difference to me if the Brit GP was dropped from the calender as it's actually cheaper to attend one of the numerous GPs on the continent anyway.

You obviously missed the reports on the USA and Canada races, and the other races that are under threat. It's not just about Europe or the BGP.

Originally posted by Apollonius



Moan, moan, moan.
If you don't like it then watch another sport. F1 is a global sport, it races across the globe and it is shown across the globe. The World doesn't end at the U.S border you know, the USA, believe it or not is just one country.

You're right F1 isn't popular in the USA - it's too complicated for many Americans whom prefer simpler forms of racing so with that in mind why would the F1 organisers want to alienate their already loyal fans by changing schedules so the odd few Americans can watch in comfort?

Also, what is "pretty hardcore"? You're either hardcore or you're not, there is no in-between, no pretty. One or the other. I suspect you're the other.

Read the first line in my post again, maybe you'll get the point. Since you are so clever and, unlike the stupid Americans, can figure out F1, maybe you'd figure out that that a global sport shouldn't end at the EU border either and reach, rather than just be shown to, audiences across the golbe.

You also contradict yourself. You ask people in N. and S. American to get up and watch a race at 3 or 5 AM because that's what loyal fans do. Yet you are afraid that switching TV times in Europe will alienate the loyal European fans.

And as far as me being a hardcore fan - go fudge yourself.

Originally posted by Neophiliac


I get that. But I thought Bernie wanted to get global audience and expand F1's reach. If that's the goal, then he can forget about it, because as I said earlier, NEW fans (the ones you're trying to get hooked) outside of Europe are simply not going to watch.

Sales patter. "We need a global sport, so we are going to take races away from France and Britain and give them to Equatorial Guinea if they pay more." "We need to ensure we get the best viewing figures, so we must make them Euro-friendly."

Originally posted by JPW

Right let's ask the average European racefan:

- would you prefer to get out of bed at 4am or at 8am to watch a race?
- would you like to watch the Singapore race early Sunday morning or at 2pm?

What do you think that the vast majority of european racefans would vote for?

I guess I didn't realize that only Europeans were allowed to be surveyed. With the majority of races in Europe, the majority of start times are already prime-time Sunday afternoon. What's it matter if a handful of races fall elsewhere on the clock due to the fact that they're half-way 'round the world. I have no problem with the Sunday mornings here in America, but taking our one prime-time Saturday night party away and moving it to the middle of the night was, and still is, bullshit, no matter your opinion. And don't let's get started about Malaysia and China.

Originally posted by Neophiliac


Read the first line in my post again, maybe you'll get the point. Since you are so clever and, unlike the stupid Americans, can figure out F1, maybe you'd figure out that that a global sport shouldn't end at the EU border either and reach, rather than just be shown to, audiences across the golbe.

You also contradict yourself. You ask people in N. and S. American to get up and watch a race at 3 or 5 AM because that's what loyal fans do. Yet you are afraid that switching TV times in Europe will alienate the loyal European fans.

And as far as me being a hardcore fan - go fudge yourself.

Well put.

Originally posted by Neophiliac


Read the first line in my post again, maybe you'll get the point. Since you are so clever and, unlike the stupid Americans, can figure out F1, maybe you'd figure out that that a global sport shouldn't end at the EU border either and reach, rather than just be shown to, audiences across the golbe.

You also contradict yourself. You ask people in N. and S. American to get up and watch a race at 3 or 5 AM because that's what loyal fans do. Yet you are afraid that switching TV times in Europe will alienate the loyal European fans.

And as far as me being a hardcore fan - go fudge yourself.

I re read your embarrassment of a post and I still came to the same conclusion. (It's too rude a word to publish on a family forum)

As for what a Global sport SHOULD be doing, sorry but since when was there a rule book telling organisers what they should do? It's all rather simple (and I'll repeat myself as you do seem to need it): F1 is a global sport because it races across the GLOBE and is broadcast around the GLOBE. What part of that don't you understand?

I don't contradict myself - As you know, F1 has a global audience (you included, sadly) however a large chunk of that audience is in Europe (consult an atlas if you are unfamiliar with places outside of the USA), so with that in mind do you not think it would be wise for the Sport (which is a business) to concentrate of that audience? Does that make sense to you?
You don't go out and alienate your biggest market simply so a minority market can benefit/stop complaining. Even an idiot can understand that..................well.....




Consider me fudged!

http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html

Interesting reading guys.

Originally posted by CONOSUR
I guess I didn't realize that only Europeans were allowed to be surveyed.

Last FOTA survey was held in:

- UK
- France
- Spain
- Italy
- Poland
- Finland
- Germany
- Turkey
- Middle East

- USA
- Brasil

- Japan
- China
- Russia
- India
- Malaysia
- Australia

500 voters per country, weighted by country viewing levels.

I am sure that if surveyed the result would be in favor of convenient viewing hours for Europe.

Originally posted by ensign14
Yet the Summer Olympics have been held in less than 20, only one of which is south of the equator

Sydney 2000 and Melbourne 1956.

Originally posted by dnbn
Sydney 2000 and Melbourne 1956.

Same country chief.

Originally posted by Apollonius



I re read your embarrassment of a post and I still came to the same conclusion. (It's too rude a word to publish on a family forum)

As for what a Global sport SHOULD be doing, sorry but since when was there a rule book telling organisers what they should do? It's all rather simple (and I'll repeat myself as you do seem to need it): F1 is a global sport because it races across the GLOBE and is broadcast around the GLOBE. What part of that don't you understand?

I don't contradict myself - As you know, F1 has a global audience (you included, sadly) however a large chunk of that audience is in Europe (consult an atlas if you are unfamiliar with places outside of the USA), so with that in mind do you not think it would be wise for the Sport (which is a business) to concentrate of that audience? Does that make sense to you?
You don't go out and alienate your biggest market simply so a minority market can benefit/stop complaining. Even an idiot can understand that..................well.....

Consider me fudged!

Why is it sad that F1 has another viewer involved enough to post on an F1 site? You come across as a bit of a tosser, just sayin.

I think the original point of the thread is a valid one, when your Global sport is deliberately seeking new markets like Asia etc because European markets are not prepared to pay as much to host an event you might want to throw them a bone or two. We are talking about less than a third of the races a year.

While you might not want to go alienating your biggest market you might want to try growing your overall market by making it more appealing to a larger number of viewers. Every company and their dog wants a slice of chinas market, and I'm sure most major sponsors would be fine with more primetime advertising in other large markets.

The last few years in F1 we have read about dropping viewer numbers, perhaps it might be better to develop new markets rather than moving the times of three or four GPs to try and balster a declining one while decreasing the saftey for those participating.

I don't know that this would even be an issue, if Bernie didn't demand that a country's contracted broadcaster show all events live, versus delayed, even though I prefer to watch live no matter the time.

Originally posted by CONOSUR
I don't know that this would even be an issue, if Bernie didn't demand that a country's contracted broadcaster show all events live, versus delayed, even though I prefer to watch live no matter the time.

Well IMHO that's one thing he has got right.

Originally posted by Neophiliac
If practically ALL the races are timed for showing times convenient for Europeans. Seriously, it's getting ridiculous -Melbourne was at 2AM, Malaysian Grand Prix is at 5AM eastern US, China is at 3AM The situation is equally dire for those in South America, by the way, where F1 fans are perhaps far more numerous than they are in U.S. It used to be that I got up early to watch the European races and had the convenience of watching races in Asia and Brasil/Canada at a reasonably convenient time like midnight or 1AM. I figured that was reasonably fair: the races were held at basically the same local time, but were spread around the globe, so you got stuck with whatever timezone you were in (win some, loose some type of thing). No longer.

If you want global audience tuning in, Bernie, you may consider doing it so that someone besides those in the EU can tune in. And don't act surprised that F1 is not popular in US - you have to be seriously dedicated (and have no job to go to on Monday) to watch anything in those ungodly hours. And, most certainly, NEW fan is going to waste his time (unless he is on cocaine or has serious sleep issues). Even yours truly, a pretty hardcore fan of the sport who very much enjoys watching races with a live timing screen on a laptop nearby, is going to just Tivo the Malaysian and Chinese races. Just not worth it.

Rant over.

And I'm pretty much favoured by the new starting hours, but still... I was just thinking this the other day, Americans (from the North and from the South) are seriously screwed.

The deal presumably is that the new circuits can stump up the 12000000 Quid to Bernie and the catch is they have to run the race to suit the European audience.The French and Brits cannot afford this sort of money but the ME rulers can .Its not really a catch as places like Bahrain and Abu Dhabi as they want to show themseves off to the European audience.There are very few people wanting to watch the races live in the Middle East so that doesn't matter.

Originally posted by AyePirate


I used to be a purist in that sense. Then I became a dad and sleep became the gold standard. Besides it's fun the watch the race with my son. My wife walked in during the Aussie GP and saw him sitting on the couch in rapt attention causing her to say, "Oh god, another one".

I just make sure to go to the TV first thing to avoid spoilers and pretend.;)

DUDE! Exactly - my 15 month old boy Sasha sits still and watches all things F1 - oddly enough, he gets really upset when watching NASCAR when there is a caution - he screams...but when they run in anger he loves it...but F1 gets him to sit still for and watch intenly for hours...

swear to god

Originally posted by Neophiliac
And don't act surprised that F1 is not popular in US - you have to be seriously dedicated (and have no job to go to on Monday) to watch anything in those ungodly hours. And, most certainly, NEW fan is going to waste his time (unless he is on cocaine or has serious sleep issues).

This has been my prime complaint for a few years now. No way am I going to stay up until 5:00 AM on a Sunday watching a race when I have to get up at 4:45 AM the next day. Making that work out is difficult for me.

gotta put your hands together for bernie, he got you (europeans) where he wanted.

He's moving the schedule so that you can WATCH IT ON TV because europe is the core of F1... so yes the european fan should be respected

how about F1 giving the chance for you TO GO TO THE CIRCUIT AND WATCH IT AT THE TRACK.

F1 can go all over the world, but he should keep the races that are part of the F1 itself, he's letting those go just so he can bring it over to some desert.

just get rid of him, get someone smart, all of you saying that this way is perfect, wouldn't you prefer to be able to get cheaper tickets and see the race at spa for example? or Imola? Bernie took that away from you! you have to pay astronomical prices, and now you gotta go fly half the world if you wanna see the finale live at the grandstands ...you know... hearing the cars.... the last race.... in ABU DHABI!!!!!!!

Good luck to you chaps! i hope you are rich enough to afford the trip + hotel+ tickets...

For me the average race is transmitted live at 5AM, with the build-up begining at 4:30AM.

I generally get up at 5:30 and watch the DVR, skipping the ads and catching up more or less at the end of the race.

This is OK.

But I love the races that are transmitted at a time that allows me to watch the live timings, join in with F1 chats and skip between feeds during ad breaks.

The OZ GP was on my limit, this weekend the timing is terrible for me, so i will be in DVR land rather than stay up all night.