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Ferrari's Tactical Brilliance!!

Started by primer , Apr 05 2009 11:13

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164 replies to this topic

#1 primer

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:13

Kimi on wet tires on a dry circuit. Losing 10-20 second a lap to other drivers, and in the process destroys the said wet tires by the time the rain actually begins. :clap:

No one had the foresight to advise Felipe Massa not to choose the tinted visor, leaving the little boy crying for a plain visor once it started raining.

And, of course, the tactical brilliance during yesterday's qualifying.

Ferrari are now my favorite team. They have taken upon themselves to entertain the F1 fans with these comic blunders. Well done Stefano, take a bow. :up:

#2 JazH

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:15

Pure comedy, Ferrari are slipping very low.

#3 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:15

and if it rained they would have looked like gods.

That said i am a believer in driving for the current conditions unless you are at the back

#4 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:17

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
and if it rained they would have looked like gods.

Kimi had to pit for fuel so I can see changing to get lucky. But to go to full wets seemed very strange

#5 peroa

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:17

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
and if it rained they would have looked like gods.

But it was stone dry and rain tyres on a boiling hot track are gone faster then you can say icecream.

#6 Bruce

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:18

Yup - hard to believe this is the same team that engineered so many excellent results in the early part of the century. They'll get is sorted though.

#7 Madras

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:19

It was bone dry, reminded me of Silverstone 2008 when they totally screwed up Kimi's race by keeping him on the wrong tyres.

As far as gambles go that was more than one sandwich short of a picnic. Honestly i'd sack the whiole lot and bring in a man with a dice.

#8 howardt

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:21

I think they asked Ross which tyres they should use, and he said "Oh, full wet, definitely" !!

#9 Madras

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:22

When was the last time Ferrari went 2 races with no points?

#10 kNt

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:22

I think they also switched to inters just before the heavy rain started.

#11 craftverk

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:23

Originally posted by howardt
I think they asked Ross which tyres they should use, and he said "Oh, full wet, definitely" !!

#12 Peter Perfect

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:24

Was it just me, or at one point on the radio comms when Massa was complaining about his visor did his engineer say something along the lines of "...calm down Felipe baby..."?

[edit: yep, it happened. Just seen the other thread talking about it]

#13 Hyatt

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:26

they took a risk and lost ... no reason to blame anyone

#14 brunopascal

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:27

Unbelievable amount of mistakes! :lol:

Having spoilt Kimi's race with a high-risk gamble, they could've at least tried a less risky gamble by putting Felipe on inters like Glock, since he was so far down the order anyway.

The risk they took w Kimi was silly, he lost like 20s per lap, they should've known better, it being dry when he got the tires.

The best was hearing Kimi was in flip-flops and shorts, at the same time as Colajanni in an interview said he would likely start the race if there was a restart.

#15 eoin

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:29

The other teams don't even need strategists any more. Just look at what ferrari do and do the opposite! Can't go wrong.

#16 HP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:29

The logic of it seems understandable. Because when it rains in Malaysia it pours, but the timing of it all was way off like on Saturday.

#17 Madras

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:30

Originally posted by Hyatt
they took a risk and lost ... no reason to blame anyone

Risk? You think that was a risk? I'd call it blind stupidity.

#18 RedBaron

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:31

Ferrari Malaysia 2003 > Ferrari Malaysia 2009

#19 alg7_munif

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:31

They have the 7 times world champion as an advisor...

#20 Orin

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:33

Putting on extreme wets on a dry track? Keeping them on when he was losing a pitstop per lap? :drunk:

#21 Verderer

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:33

I said this in the Ferrari F60 thread but I will say it again. Ferrari seems to choose the strategy based on wishful thinking, and not facts. It's like the strategist (whoever it is) is getting desperate, because he really doesn't know what he's doing, and he wants to do something bold to prove his brilliance once for all. And all the while a more conservative tactics would keep them in the race. But who cares, it's all or nothing for the Ferrari: in other words nothing.

EDIT: it was the same last year, and I was equally possed off then. Now they don't have the car which would allow any tactical variation (because it sucks), and this is even more apparent.

#22 trenchcoat

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:34

Originally posted by howardt
I think they asked Ross which tyres they should use, and he said "Oh, full wet, definitely" !!

#23 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:34

Originally posted by alg7_munif
They have the 7 times world champion as an advisor...

shh. dont remind them ;)

#24 Madras

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:35

Originally posted by Verderer
I said this in the Ferrari F60 thread but I will say it again. Ferrari seems to choose the strategy based on wishful thinking, and not facts. It's like the strategist (whoever it is) is getting desperate, because he really doesn't know what he's doing, and he wants to do something bold to prove his brilliance once for all. And all the while a more conservative tactics would keep them in the race. But who cares, it's all or nothing for the Ferrari: in other words nothing.

Exactly. He knows he's been poor and desperately wants to do something brilliant to impress people. But it's pure desperation.

#25 jesee

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:36

I have to agree that for a team of ferari reputation and status, this is startng to get rediculous. Some basic mistakes like Massa using tinted visor is unbelievable really.

#26 Madras

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:37

Originally posted by jesee
I have to agree that for a team of ferari reputation and status, this is startng to get rediculous. Some basic mistakes like Massa using tinted visor is unbelievable really.

To be fair wouldnt surprise me if Massa said at the start "no i want my special tinted visor, get me my tinted visor I look no good in this white visor"

#27 raiseyourfistfor

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:37

Originally posted by eoin
The other teams don't even need strategists any more. Just look at what ferrari do and do the opposite! Can't go wrong.

Cost - cutting measures :clap:

#28 primer

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:39

Originally posted by alg7_munif
They have the 7 times world champion as an advisor...

MS is there only for PR value. Shake hands with people, smile, sign some autographs etc.

#29 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:39

Originally posted by Madras
Honestly i'd sack the whiole lot and bring in a man with a dice.

They already have

#30 HP

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:40

Originally posted by Orin
Putting on extreme wets on a dry track? Keeping them on when he was losing a pitstop per lap?

That is somewhat understandable. Since it usually pour and the track is flooded in no time. But they should have remembered when there was a downpour years ago. MS and RB flew off the road, recovered, picked up intermediates, while the rest all changed to full wets. Except for Jos Verstappen, they drove by the field. Like Glock today. Seems Intermediates can make a race.

#31 Hotwheels

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:41

Of the 10 teams , Force India nd FERRARI are on 0 ........ :rotfl:

Oh how the mighty fall.

#32 Verderer

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:43

Originally posted by primer

MS is there only for PR value. Shake hands with people, smile, sign some autographs etc.

Then maybe he should just go ahead and do that, staying in the hospitality area, rather than the pitwall looking embarrassed everytime he's in the picture? :drunk:

Or maybe he look embarrassed all the time, I don't know? :stoned:

#33 F1Champion

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:43

You could look at all the track pictures and know that it wasn't raining hard enough for the full wets. I was screaming at them because if you don't get the decision right, then you will burn through the wets negating any advantage of pitting early for full wets because a) the competitors will gain a pit stop over you, b) your wets will be shot and you'll need to come back in anyway.

How about taking the same option as the others, that way you won't lose out and look like complete amateurs.

And then when the rain was getting heavier, they decide to stay on intermediates when full wets are the obvious choice! Brilliant, Ferrari must be thinking that they get points for last place.

The obvious strategy once it was revealed that Brawn, Williams and Toyota were faster than Ferrari should of been to stay with them and collect points and keep in touch until European when they could either run their double decker or a verdict would of been delivered on the double deckers. It was clear to me that Brawn, Williams and Toyota would make mistakes at the beginning of the season as they weren't used to running at the front. Ferrari (and their drivers) threw away chances not just to get banker points but the odd additional point from errors from the teams up ahead making mistakes.

Ferrari are in a poor position now in the championship and if there is another race without points then their season will effectively be over.

#34 klyster

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:45

Idiots, what were they thinking?

Poor Kimi, he must be at wits end....

#35 GerardF1

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:45

Originally posted by Hyatt
they took a risk and lost ... no reason to blame anyone

Thats what these forums are for

That being said - it certainly did appear to be one of their least glorious moments

#36 Claudius

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:46

Originally posted by alg7_munif
They have the 7 times world champion as an advisor...

Yeah, blame MS

Someone's got to take the blame.

#37 Bruce

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:48

Originally posted by F1Champion

Ferrari are in a poor position now in the championship and if there is another race without points then their season will effectively be over.

If we consider McLaren as some sort of bench mark for Ferrari (and both teams need to do some work) then Ferrari aren't in a bad position - they're a single point behind....

#38 Ferrim

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:49

Would have understood the call if it was a Force India pitting. But a Ferrari, and Räikkönen who was running fifth, it was suicidal. If they had been at least running 10th or something...

Last time Ferrari started the season with no points in the first two races: 1992.

Last time Ferrari had two straight races with no points: Turkey-Italy, 2005.

#39 VresiBerba

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:52

Originally posted by Madras
When was the last time Ferrari went 2 races with no points?

Assuming you mean the first two races of the season, then 1992.

#40 peroa

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:52

Originally posted by Bruce

If we consider McLaren as some sort of bench mark for Ferrari (and both teams need to do some work) then Ferrari aren't in a bad position - they're a single point behind....

#41 siggers

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:57

Originally posted by Ferrim
Would have understood the call if it was a Force India pitting. But a Ferrari, and Räikkönen who was running fifth, it was suicidal. If they had been at least running 10th or something...

That is the point. Taking risks because one would look like god if it works out is not a good base line from which to start of. The question is not just what one can gain, but also what one can lose. Desperate risks are only worth taking if one has little or nothing to lose. But that is not going to be a problem for much longer, if Ferrari continues like that. I bet also the drivers and the team must be really happy with each other at the moment :

#42 Madras

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:58

No wonder Kimi had his shorts on while the other drivers were in their cars.

#43 Bruce

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:05

Originally posted by Madras
No wonder Kimi had his shorts on while the other drivers were in their cars.

This was a clever Ferrari gambit to lure all the others out of their cars prior to the re-start - the shorts were actually race pants with legs printed on them allowing Kimi to sprint back to his car and restart before the others cottoned on....

#44 Orin

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:56

Originally posted by HP
That is somewhat understandable. Since it usually pour and the track is flooded in no time. But they should have remembered when there was a downpour years ago. MS and RB flew off the road, recovered, picked up intermediates, while the rest all changed to full wets. Except for Jos Verstappen, they drove by the field. Like Glock today. Seems Intermediates can make a race.

But by the time the rain came he'd burnt through the tyres anyway, so had to stop with everyone else. It was a mad gamble. Ferrari don't look too bad at the moment, once the diffuser issue is sorted they are likely to be at or near the front of the grid. IMO they ought to be concentrating on minimising the damage until the car is sorted. Instead, they're behaving like a team which doesn't believe it can win the title. It's an all or nothing approach, rather like Renault last year, going for fluky wins rather than points towards the championship.

#45 tahadar

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:58

Originally posted by Bruce

This was a clever Ferrari gambit to lure all the others out of their cars prior to the re-start - the shorts were actually race pants with legs printed on them allowing Kimi to sprint back to his car and restart before the others cottoned on....

LMAO. great comments after a silly race

#46 Arska

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:58

Originally posted by alg7_munif
They have the 7 times world champion as an advisor...

Incorrect. He's there as Ferrari's fashion consultant.

#47 kar

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:01

Originally posted by Bruce

If we consider McLaren as some sort of bench mark for Ferrari (and both teams need to do some work) then Ferrari aren't in a bad position - they're a single point behind....

Although that's a bit like Gordon Brown going, well if we consider Zimbabwe as a benchmark, we're not too badly off in Britain.

#48 Bruce

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:25

Originally posted by kar

Although that's a bit like Gordon Brown going, well if we consider Zimbabwe as a benchmark, we're not too badly off in Britain.