After 2 races, I definately think Hamilton is driving better than Alonso and Kimi at this point. All 3 have non championship winning cars , and in a way it's a better reflection of their skill. As of now , for me:
Hamilton
Alonso
Kimi.
Judging ONLY on these 2 races.
Hamilton VS Kimi VS Alonso 2009
Started by
Hotwheels
, Apr 05 2009 11:44
97 replies to this topic
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#2
Enkei
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:46
3 Different drivers, 3 different cars, 2 wacky races. Impossible to make real comparisons.
#3
trenchcoat
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:46
^^^^
+ 1
I would have liked to add Massa, Kubica and Vettel too
+ 1
I would have liked to add Massa, Kubica and Vettel too
#4
Ghostrider
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:46
Originally posted by Enkei
3 Different drivers, 3 different cars, 2 wacky races. Impossible to make real comparisons.
Exactly.
#5
postajegenye
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:47
You can't really compare them yet. But right now I'd say Hamilton-Alonso-Kimi. I've rated Kimi lower than the other two for two years, anyway.
#6
Madras
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:48
Hamilton does seem to have driven the best of the three so far.
#7
Anomnader
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:48
We need a poll so that each drivers fanboys can adjust the results to their own favour - this is no fun otherwise :-(
#8
Verderer
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:48
Originally posted by postajegenye
You can't really compare them yet. But right now I'd say Hamilton-Alonso-Kimi. I've rated Kimi lower than the other two for two years, anyway.
Yeah, having a crap strategy and misfiring KERS has nothing to do with this, it's all Kimi?
#9
Lazy Prodigy
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:51
Sense! you make it.Originally posted by Enkei
3 Different drivers, 3 different cars, 2 wacky races. Impossible to make real comparisons.
#10
slideways
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:51
I'm really missing Kimi's best days at McLaren and I wasn't even a big fan of him. I think Lewis has had an aweful lot of luck these last two races. I think Alonso will do better over the season if they both stay with uncompetitive cars - he's had more practice.
#11
Madras
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:52
Well Lewis has kept out of trouble and worked his way through. He was very lucky in Australia.
#12
RoutariEnjinu
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:58
It looks like it's a split between:
Hamilton doing the best job so far.
&
[Some excuses] because it's impossible to say.
Personally I'm most impressed with Hamilton so far. The car wasn't even capable of getting in to Q3 where as Alonso's and Raikkonens cars were, and yet AGAIN he's got up there... and yet again Kovalainen has Kovalainend his race.
Two races in, and the two season old "he's only good because he's in the best car" assertion is looking rather hopeless.
I loved the battle with Webber.
Hamilton doing the best job so far.
&
[Some excuses] because it's impossible to say.
Personally I'm most impressed with Hamilton so far. The car wasn't even capable of getting in to Q3 where as Alonso's and Raikkonens cars were, and yet AGAIN he's got up there... and yet again Kovalainen has Kovalainend his race.
Two races in, and the two season old "he's only good because he's in the best car" assertion is looking rather hopeless.
I loved the battle with Webber.
#13
brunopascal
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:58
Alonso the best of those 3 for me so far this season. I think he does very well in that traktor of a car, making it look better than it is.
#14
F1Champion
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 11:59
I actually think that Vettel is outperforming these three at the moment.
#15
klyster
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:00
Originally posted by brunopascal
Alonso the best of those 3 for me so far this season. I think he does very well in that traktor of a car, making it look better than it is.
Yeah, Alonso in the better performing car than McLaren.
#16
peroa
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:00
Originally posted by F1Champion
I actually think that Vettel is outperforming these three at the moment.
Vettel is "outperforming" himself at the moment.
#17
trenchcoat
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:02
Originally posted by Anomnader
We need a poll so that each drivers fanboys can adjust the results to their own favour - this is no fun otherwise :-(
You know the way pools work here
Anyway I was impressed that Lewis despite having a slower car pulled a 5 second gap ahead of Massa.
#18
Claudius
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:03
Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
It looks like it's a split between:
Hamilton doing the best job so far.
&
[Some excuses] because it's impossible to say.
Personally I'm most impressed with Hamilton so far. The car wasn't even capable of getting in to Q3 where as Alonso's and Raikkonens cars were, and yet AGAIN he's got up there... and yet again Kovalainen has Kovalainend his race.
Two races in, and the two season old "he's only good because he's in the best car" assertion is looking rather hopeless.
I loved the battle with Webber.
Spot on
Not that it will stop "he's only good because he's in the best car" brigade though. They'll invent some other excuse to bash him.
#19
Mika Mika
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:03
I dont htink it's fair as Alonso was poorly this we
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#20
tahadar
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:04
with a crash and a spin?Originally posted by F1Champion
I actually think that Vettel is outperforming these three at the moment.
#22
RoutariEnjinu
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:24
Originally posted by kismet
Who cares?
Well you seemed attracted in by the thread title? Is the mood of the thread not going as you hoped?
I think it's an interesting thread. 3x World Champions in non racing winning cars.
#23
RodrigoL
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:31
Can't see this thread resulting in anything other than tireless Alonso vs Hamilton 2007 debates, or MichaelPM telling us that Kimi's a drunk..
But I'll be interested to see how Fernando's fanbase reacts if Hamilton wins as a result of any Safety Car lotteries
But I'll be interested to see how Fernando's fanbase reacts if Hamilton wins as a result of any Safety Car lotteries
#24
otoelpiloto
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:36
no doubt alonso 1st, then lewis, and finally kimi
kimi with the best car being pretty conservative, lewis with the second car doing rather well kept away from problems, and alonso with the worst car by miles keeping it in the midfield whist piquet shows the real pace of that dog only compared to force indias and toro rossos
kimi with the best car being pretty conservative, lewis with the second car doing rather well kept away from problems, and alonso with the worst car by miles keeping it in the midfield whist piquet shows the real pace of that dog only compared to force indias and toro rossos
#25
gerry nassar
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:43
Too early to tell.
Alonso was very lacklustre in Melbourne and ran solid today before spinning.
Kimi has been fast in 2 races but made a mistake in one and got screwed by the the team in the other.
Lewis has managed to work his way upfront in both races but we havnt been able to see Kova to compare.
So Lewis by default for now - but give it half a season atleast.
Alonso was very lacklustre in Melbourne and ran solid today before spinning.
Kimi has been fast in 2 races but made a mistake in one and got screwed by the the team in the other.
Lewis has managed to work his way upfront in both races but we havnt been able to see Kova to compare.
So Lewis by default for now - but give it half a season atleast.
#26
bond
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:45
Originally posted by otoelpiloto
no doubt alonso 1st, then lewis, and finally kimi
kimi with the best car being pretty conservative, lewis with the second car doing rather well kept away from problems, and alonso with the worst car by miles keeping it in the midfield whist piquet shows the real pace of that dog only compared to force indias and toro rossos
#27
kismet
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:47
Nope, the thread's going exactly like I thought it would go, which, incidentally, is how threads like this have always gone and will continue to go in the future. Most something vs. other threads are terribly predictable and pointless.Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
Well you seemed attracted in by the thread title? Is the mood of the thread not going as you hoped?
I think it's an interesting thread. 3x World Champions in non racing winning cars.
#28
Decode
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:47
Originally posted by gerry nassar
Alonso was very lacklustre in Melbourne
Lacklustre? He was pushed off the track down to 18th on lap one and finished 5th. What was lacklustre about his drive exactly?
Alonso has more points than Kimi and Hamilton combined so far this season so hes currently beating them both.
#29
showtime
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:50
Watching a whole lap of FA with the on board camera you can see the R29 is quite difficult to drive, it's like a crazy horse. When Button overtook him today he said something about this, don't remember exactly what.
#30
Cenotaph
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 12:52
this is an opportunistic thread. If Ferrari didnt mess up so much, this thread would not be here...
#31
otoelpiloto
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:01
he said that never saw a car going sideways like the renault, once again fernando overdriving a dog, aka arre 29 ( arre is the sound people riding ponys use to make the animal start moving, playing with the sound r29Originally posted by showtime
Watching a whole lap of FA with the on board camera you can see the R29 is quite difficult to drive, it's like a crazy horse. When Button overtook him today he said something about this, don't remember exactly what.
)I;m rather convinced that nelsinho shows where the car really is pace-wise and it's nowhere but alongside fisichellas and sutils
#32
Decode
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:03
Originally posted by otoelpiloto
he said that never saw a car going sideways like the renault, once again fernando overdriving a dog
The Mclaren in contrast seems very smooth to drive for both drivers.
#33
Madras
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:04
Originally posted by Decode
The Mclaren in contrast seems very smooth to drive for both drivers.
Kovi looked especially smooth today as he corkscrewed off the track on the first lap!
#34
RodrigoL
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:16
Originally posted by otoelpiloto
he said that never saw a car going sideways like the renault, once again fernando overdriving a dog, aka arre 29 ( arre is the sound people riding ponys use to make the animal start moving, playing with the sound r29
I;m rather convinced that nelsinho shows where the car really is pace-wise and it's nowhere but alongside fisichellas and sutils
It always amazes me,
Alonso is supposed to be the best developer in F1. He can detect problems in an engine by simply sitting in the car and feeling its vibrations. Telemetry tools, engineers, aerodynamicists and the like are all effectively made redundant when Alonso joins a team. Aparently he can also set up a car better than anyone on the grid.
And yet .........he always seems to be driving a dog of a car, which is 2nd fastest at best.Anyone care to explain why?
#35
undersquare
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:19
Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
I loved the battle with Webber.
It was amazing how long it took Webber to get past, when we saw he was so much faster, with so much more d/f. Lewis really outperforming the car so far this season, good speed, good judgement.
Fernando had the ear infection so we should suspend judgement on his going off under pressure. Anyway he is unarguably the most Spanish of the three
Kimi didn't look that great, but then once the wets went on it was game over whatever he did. Pretty cool not to be throwing a fit in the garage.
Nice argumentation thread for the season...
#36
hunnylander
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 13:22
Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
I loved the battle with Webber.
Battle? That was proper Wiener WALZER!
#37
Decode
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 14:03
Alonso actually has more points than both mclaren and ferrari combined.
#38
Atreiu
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 14:30
Why don't you add Force India to the mix? 
I think many people were hoping Lewis would just bin it in frustration and mess it up starting mid pack. I'm glad they have been wrong until now.
I think many people were hoping Lewis would just bin it in frustration and mess it up starting mid pack. I'm glad they have been wrong until now.
#39
alg7_munif
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 14:32
Hamilton actually ended up in front of both Renault and Ferrari in two races this season already.Originally posted by Decode
Alonso actually has more points than both mclaren and ferrari combined.
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#40
RoutariEnjinu
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 14:36
Originally posted by hunnylander
Battle? That was proper Wiener WALZER!
What's a Wiener WALZER?
When I know what this is, I'll be able to respond accordingly
#41
rfus
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 14:38
Originally posted by otoelpiloto
no doubt alonso 1st, then lewis, and finally kimi
kimi with the best car being pretty conservative, lewis with the second car doing rather well kept away from problems, and alonso with the worst car by miles keeping it in the midfield whist piquet shows the real pace of that dog only compared to force indias and toro rossos
Yo Alsono said Renault are faster than BMW in Malaysia
#42
hunnylander
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 15:48
Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
What's a Wiener WALZER?
When I know what this is, I'll be able to respond accordingly
Sorry I wrote it in its original name, in German. Viennese waltz, it's a nice dance. http://en.wikipedia..../Viennese_Waltz
What Lewis and Mark did, was so resolving and rotating, it was like the waltz.
#43
BuzzingHornet
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 15:55
All 3 are struggling with average cars and / or crazy teams... they can't drive at their best right now so its impossible to say.
#44
Pep
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:21
Australia --> After the start Alonso was 18th because he had to go through the grass due to Barrichello’s accident in turn one, Hamilton was 14. In lap 4th Hamilton was 10th and Alonso was 15th. At the end of the race Hamilton was 3 and Alonso 5th. So actually, Alonso did a better job than Hamilton, and also Kimi.
In qualifying Hamilton also performs poorly, as he's beating by Heiki
Malaysia --> In the race I'd say that none excels, but only Alonso gives something impressive, specially in the start and in the battles with much faster cars. But he makes a mistake more costly than others', so I would give the race to Hamilton. Kimi is hampered by a poor strategy, so imposible to compare
In quali again Alonso excels, makint it barely to Q3, while Hamilton qualifies next to his teammate in 13.
Points --> Alonso 4. Ham 1. Kimi 0
If we were just to compare the three based in only one race and a half, I'd say that Alonso has been doing a better job, putting a dog of a car in places in qualifying and the race where it doesn't belong.
It'll be fun to watch these three drivers in the midfield, at least in the next races. But it's more risky (accident-prone) and complicated to drive there than at the front.
In qualifying Hamilton also performs poorly, as he's beating by Heiki
Malaysia --> In the race I'd say that none excels, but only Alonso gives something impressive, specially in the start and in the battles with much faster cars. But he makes a mistake more costly than others', so I would give the race to Hamilton. Kimi is hampered by a poor strategy, so imposible to compare
In quali again Alonso excels, makint it barely to Q3, while Hamilton qualifies next to his teammate in 13.
Points --> Alonso 4. Ham 1. Kimi 0
If we were just to compare the three based in only one race and a half, I'd say that Alonso has been doing a better job, putting a dog of a car in places in qualifying and the race where it doesn't belong.
It'll be fun to watch these three drivers in the midfield, at least in the next races. But it's more risky (accident-prone) and complicated to drive there than at the front.
#45
airwise
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:38
Alonso made more mistakes today than he used to in a season.
Very disappointing after a lackluster Melbourne. He's impressive over the one lap in qualifying so far though.
Hamilton hasn't put a foot wrong ON the track. I think the car is lacking a little in comparison with the Renault - well at least Alonso claims he has a WDC challenger.
Raikkonen? Impressive in Melbourne and today too. He's got the quickest car of the three at the moment.
Very disappointing after a lackluster Melbourne. He's impressive over the one lap in qualifying so far though.
Hamilton hasn't put a foot wrong ON the track. I think the car is lacking a little in comparison with the Renault - well at least Alonso claims he has a WDC challenger.
Raikkonen? Impressive in Melbourne and today too. He's got the quickest car of the three at the moment.
#46
Pep
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:43
Originally posted by airwise
Alonso made more mistakes today than he used to in a season.
Not really. Only the excursion with dry tyres when it was starting to rain but he managed to get the car out of the gravel through the grass. Hamilton was exactly behind at the time and he also ran off the track, but barely avoided the gravel. And later a lot of drivers spun their car today, Hamilton also under the SC.
#47
airwise
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:01
He must have outbraked himself at least five times before a hint of rain, allowing the Spanish train behind to nip by one by one.
#48
gaston_foix
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:37
Originally posted by airwise
He must have outbraked himself at least five times before a hint of rain, allowing the Spanish train behind to nip by one by one.
Yea, he had 2 big mistakes:
1. He was overtaked by Kimi, who was the slowest driver in the Alonso train
2. Spun off and lost 30 seconds
Ok his car its a dog, especially in race trim, but he makes the same mistake like last year trying to put the car where it not belongs. But probably is much easy when u stay in front of TV, than is when u are inside in a car.
Hopes all this 3 drivers can have a decent car in the next races...
#49
MichaelPM
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:44
I do not think he was over driving it today, he lacked alot of practice and setup time due to illness so it was probably just the car was not dialled into the track as it should have been.
#50
Dalek Caan
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Posted 05 April 2009 - 18:47
Vettel and Hamilton will dominate F1 for many years. I am supporting Vettel in that battle.
Alonso is still the best at the moment, but one wonders if he will ever get back to his position as the guy always on top. I think his year at McLaren has made him think that he needs to avoid another one like that, and as such he avoids certain team mates.
For example, we have the probably situation of Vettel and Alonso at Ferrari in 2011. Will Fernando opt out of it because he knows Vettel could beat him? Maybe.
Alonso is still the best at the moment, but one wonders if he will ever get back to his position as the guy always on top. I think his year at McLaren has made him think that he needs to avoid another one like that, and as such he avoids certain team mates.
For example, we have the probably situation of Vettel and Alonso at Ferrari in 2011. Will Fernando opt out of it because he knows Vettel could beat him? Maybe.
