I've followed F1 for many, many years, I started paying close attention in the seventies...I can't remember seeing the cars both this racy and needing this much driver skill to operate since....geez...since I don't know when?
Five and four wide at times...passing everywhere...lots of grip and not so much aero...
Is it just me, or is F1 suddenly loads better then it has been in like 15 years?
Give the FIA (Max) actual credit??
Started by
wide-front-wing
, Apr 06 2009 03:39
52 replies to this topic
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#2
woftam
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 03:48
Originally posted by wide-front-wing
I've followed F1 for many, many years, I started paying close attention in the seventies...I can't remember seeing the cars both this racy and needing this much driver skill to operate since....geez...since I don't know when?
Five and four wide at times...passing everywhere...lots of grip and not so much aero...
Is it just me, or is F1 suddenly loads better then it has been in like 15 years?
Is that you Max?
Sorry couldn't resist.
#3
alfa1
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 03:49
Originally posted by wide-front-wing
Is it just me, or is F1 suddenly loads better then it has been in like 15 years?
Max has been in charge for most (all?) of those 15 years, so its a bit much to congratulate him for doing a good job at this point in time.
#4
imaginesix
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 03:51
So far so good, but I'll reserve final judgment until after Borecelona.Originally posted by wide-front-wing
I've followed F1 for many, many years, I started paying close attention in the seventies...I can't remember seeing the cars both this racy and needing this much driver skill to operate since....geez...since I don't know when?
Five and four wide at times...passing everywhere...lots of grip and not so much aero...
Is it just me, or is F1 suddenly loads better then it has been in like 15 years?
#5
Oho
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 03:57
Naah at best its like Ind... Native American's with their rain dance, dance long enough and eventually it will rain..
#6
umapathypon
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:07
To be fair,there was lots of action before the rain came down.I guess we need to wait for another 2,3 races before a proper assessment.But,the signs look good.Originally posted by Oho
Naah at best its like Ind... Native American's with their rain dance, dance long enough and eventually it will rain..
Edit: Ahh...i misread your post.
#7
Gareth
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:20
Ignoring the question of where credit, if any, is due (and it seems to me that the overtaking working group probably deserve as much as the FIA) the changes certainly seem to be working so far. 2 fantastic races to start the season, full of actual racing. Crazy.
#8
Pingguest
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:39
The last two races were good, but I think its still too early for conclusions. The Australian and Malaysian Grand Prix are always exciting.
#9
united
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:41
Full credit goes to Overtaking Working Group.
Mosley has nothing to do with this apart from the fact that he used diffusor story for some good old politicking - in order to destabilize FOTA. FIA was vary on OWG's proposals already - even before the season started.
Mosley has nothing to do with this apart from the fact that he used diffusor story for some good old politicking - in order to destabilize FOTA. FIA was vary on OWG's proposals already - even before the season started.
#10
se7en_24
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:41
Wow, more mechanical grip and less aerodynamic grip has made for a much better show - why did noone suggest this before the FIA thought of it!
#11
Clatter
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:43
Originally posted by wide-front-wing
I've followed F1 for many, many years, I started paying close attention in the seventies...I can't remember seeing the cars both this racy and needing this much driver skill to operate since....geez...since I don't know when?
Five and four wide at times...passing everywhere...lots of grip and not so much aero...
Is it just me, or is F1 suddenly loads better then it has been in like 15 years?
I think you are forgetting that it was the teams that came up with the proposals for the current rules, so if there is any credit due it is to them.
#12
Henrik B
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:46
Judgement will be passed after Barcelona.
But, as said, the better racing isn't FIA:s doing - it's OWG, which consisted of team representatives. Max doesn't get credit for realising he's crap at his job and hiring outside help.
And, KERS will eventually be like a rear wing - you got to have one. Some of the passing this year has been because a KERS-equipped car get some advantage when passing a KERS-less car. We've also seen how KERS can be used to prevent passing - in the end, when everyone has it, it will even out.
But, as said, the better racing isn't FIA:s doing - it's OWG, which consisted of team representatives. Max doesn't get credit for realising he's crap at his job and hiring outside help.
And, KERS will eventually be like a rear wing - you got to have one. Some of the passing this year has been because a KERS-equipped car get some advantage when passing a KERS-less car. We've also seen how KERS can be used to prevent passing - in the end, when everyone has it, it will even out.
#13
bogi
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:46
OWG Team;
Paddy Lowe - McLaren
Pat Symonds - Renault
Rory Byrne - ex Ferrari
Spank Mosley don't have anything with them.
Paddy Lowe - McLaren
Pat Symonds - Renault
Rory Byrne - ex Ferrari
Spank Mosley don't have anything with them.
#14
Dragonfly
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:47
Why should we congratulate him for the slow and painful return to the basics of the sport after it had been derailed from the right track for so many years because of his personal decisions and obsession with power?Originally posted by alfa1
Max has been in charge for most (all?) of those 15 years, so its a bit much to congratulate him for doing a good job at this point in time.
#15
Orin
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:50
Originally posted by wide-front-wing
I've followed F1 for many, many years, I started paying close attention in the seventies...I can't remember seeing the cars both this racy and needing this much driver skill to operate since....geez...since I don't know when?
Five and four wide at times...passing everywhere...lots of grip and not so much aero...
Is it just me, or is F1 suddenly loads better then it has been in like 15 years?
That's not really the FIA, it's the OWG which is drawn from the teams. When the FIA try to do it we get narrow cars, high front wings and grooved tyres. I suppose we could congratulate the FIA for listening to the experts for once.
#16
Decode
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 07:57
The sepang race was down the weather and Melbourne is usually always an incident filled race so nothing new really, and lets not forget the two races have been dominated by one car and driver so thats hardly exciting. It could very well be a very boring season thanks to the fia's inability to create clear rules.
#17
RoutariEnjinu
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:05
I haven't been watching F1 that as long as probably most here, but I have been watching as many races from the late 70's and 80's as I can get my hands on.
Races from these eras definately seemed to have a different flavour to them compared to last year and years before.
This year however, with new folks up front, with the slicks, a red flagged race, the difference between the KERS and none KERS cars, and the very different looking cars; it does seem closer to the races of old that I've downloaded.
Races from these eras definately seemed to have a different flavour to them compared to last year and years before.
This year however, with new folks up front, with the slicks, a red flagged race, the difference between the KERS and none KERS cars, and the very different looking cars; it does seem closer to the races of old that I've downloaded.
#18
Clatter
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:22
Originally posted by Decode
The sepang race was down the weather and Melbourne is usually always an incident filled race so nothing new really, and lets not forget the two races have been dominated by one car and driver so thats hardly exciting. It could very well be a very boring season thanks to the fia's inability to create clear rules.
This only a problem if the one thing you focus on is who is at the front. There has been some damn good racing elsewhere in the pack, and the cameras this year havent just focused on the leader, but has picked up quite a few of these battles.
#19
united
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 08:25
Max loves politics, so he even created a nice little back-door by telling before the season that if OWG's rules does not work he will remove them. So do not thank him.
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#20
Buttoneer
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:09
Agree with all of the words in this post except 'as much as' which should be replaced with 'more than'. The FIA deserves some credit for taking the time and effort to look into the matter but that's about it. They came up with the CDG wing, after all.Originally posted by Gareth
Ignoring the question of where credit, if any, is due (and it seems to me that the overtaking working group probably deserve as much as the FIA) the changes certainly seem to be working so far. 2 fantastic races to start the season, full of actual racing. Crazy.
#21
potmotr
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:11
They'll be prising my mouse and keyboard from my cold dead hands before I give that pervert Max Mosley credit for anything.
He's an egotistical *******. He deserves nothing but complete contempt.
He's an egotistical *******. He deserves nothing but complete contempt.
#22
Dancing_Donkey
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:17
So far 
OWG and FIA/Max getting behind them with rule changes. Doesn't excuse 15 years of doing nothing. But we'll see more as the season unfolds.
Also amazing how close the field is in terms of time - despite very different technologies in cars and very different aero solutions. The Webber/Alonso and Webber/Hamilton battles yesterday were great. Different looking cars, with different strengths on different parts of the track.
OWG and FIA/Max getting behind them with rule changes. Doesn't excuse 15 years of doing nothing. But we'll see more as the season unfolds.Also amazing how close the field is in terms of time - despite very different technologies in cars and very different aero solutions. The Webber/Alonso and Webber/Hamilton battles yesterday were great. Different looking cars, with different strengths on different parts of the track.
#23
Mauseri
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:17
I reserve my judgement. Drivers had trouble passing Alonso despite being 2 sec faster. Australia could have been about tyres and KERS, in Sepang there was only one way to use KERS.
#24
tifosi
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:27
Originally posted by Henrik Brodin
But, as said, the better racing isn't FIA:s doing - it's OWG, which consisted of team representatives. Max doesn't get credit for realising he's crap at his job and hiring outside help.
Actually, that is the very definition of a good leader.
#25
rolf123
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:42
No matter what good Max does in any sphere, this forum will always bash him.
Max has been good for the sport since when he first arrived. There is an excellent quote by Ayrton Senna about Max from the early 90s. I need to dig it up.
Max has been good for the sport since when he first arrived. There is an excellent quote by Ayrton Senna about Max from the early 90s. I need to dig it up.
#26
wrighty
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:50
Originally posted by rolf123
No matter what good Max does in any sphere, this forum will always bash him.
Max has been good for the sport since when he first arrived. There is an excellent quote by Ayrton Senna about Max from the early 90s. I need to dig it up.
i'm sure one quote from at least 15 years ago will turn us all in his favour
Originally posted by potmotr
They'll be prising my mouse and keyboard from my cold dead hands before I give that pervert Max Mosley credit for anything.
He's an egotistical *******. He deserves nothing but complete contempt.
#27
Vice::
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:53
I think B. Ecclestone is the bigger bad with all the bad ideas. Ecclestone's main goal is to make money. He doesn't really care about the spectators. Max Mosley is currently making the sport more accessible for new teams and doing acctually good for the sport. Still people are bashing and judging him because of some sex fantasies.
#28
krapmeister
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:57
Originally posted by rolf123
No matter what good Max does in any sphere, this forum will always bash him.
Max has been good for the sport since when he first arrived. There is an excellent quote by Ayrton Senna about Max from the early 90s. I need to dig it up.
Wow! A fan of Mad Max and James Allen...
#29
JPW
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:03
My God man didn't you get the memo, you're supposed to blame Max, Bernie and the FIA for all the bad things happening in F1, if something turns out to be positive all credit needs to be diverted away from them.Originally posted by wide-front-wing
I've followed F1 for many, many years, I started paying close attention in the seventies...I can't remember seeing the cars both this racy and needing this much driver skill to operate since....geez...since I don't know when?
Five and four wide at times...passing everywhere...lots of grip and not so much aero...
Is it just me, or is F1 suddenly loads better then it has been in like 15 years?
If that's not entirely possible then you're supposed to mention that one good thing doesn't make-up for all the bad things they've done to F1.
Keep up will you ;)
#30
wrighty
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:03
Originally posted by Vice::
I think B. Ecclestone is the bigger bad with all the bad ideas. Ecclestone's main goal is to make money. He doesn't really care about the spectators. Max Mosley is currently making the sport more accessible for new teams and doing acctually good for the sport. Still people are bashing and judging him because of some sex fantasies.
re: the bolded bit, if he starts coming up with realistic proposals (as opposed to a derisory budget that wouldn't cover a major teams catering bill) while on the same hand asking the 'budget' teams to redesign at a moments notice if they actually come up with something clever then MAYBE it may turn out to be a good idea, but at the moment the budget proposal is another bargaining chip.....forget the sex scandals and the 'alleged' victimisations, it's the 'using the sport as a political lever to make yourself look good' that i dislike
#31
wrighty
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:10
Originally posted by wrighty
i'm sure one quote from at least 15 years ago will turn us all in his favour
sorry, just wanted to add, you should bear in mind that any positive references from Senna regarding Mosley should be taken with reference to Senna's utter contempt for Jean-Marie Balestre, Mosley's predecessor....i dare say, as a devoutly religious man, Senna may not have had the same opinion of Mosley now as he did then...
#32
stevvy1986
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:21
Originally posted by Decode
The sepang race was down the weather
no it wasn't-before the first spots of rain came down there was plenty of close racing and overtaking
#33
Tenmantaylor
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:32
Ive got to agree on the cars. Just watching the cars yesterday was some of the hardest driving Ive ever seen in F1 and the racing was excellent, Webber Alonso battle stood out really well.
I think the rule changes have definately had the desired effect in this respect. Dont give Max too much credit tho, its us who have been asking for slicks and less wings for years!
I think the rule changes have definately had the desired effect in this respect. Dont give Max too much credit tho, its us who have been asking for slicks and less wings for years!
#34
Atreiu
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:44
Credit for what? Messing around for decades and creating freak technical regulations once?
#35
Owen
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:55
I think alot of the success has been created in spite of Max's involvement.
#36
ForMules
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:59
Originally posted by Gareth
Ignoring the question of where credit, if any, is due (and it seems to me that the overtaking working group probably deserve as much as the FIA) the changes certainly seem to be working so far. 2 fantastic races to start the season, full of actual racing. Crazy.
seeing cheaters competing for wins isn't what we call "exciting"!
cheating by the irrelevent flaws of the FIA rules, made by brities lords, haha, what a mess.
#37
krapmeister
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:01
Originally posted by Owen
I think alot of the success has been created in spite of Max's involvement.
#38
united
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:04
Max should go and you cannot be grateful for anything.
Once the teams created a united front (unthinkable during Mr. Todt's tenure at Ferrari) and created a well-crafted list of proposals, FIA started to deliberately ignore the diffusor question in order to throw FOTA into disarray. Crazy WMSC decision is another political maneuver to destabilize FOTA and bring more satisfaction to Mosley.
The only thing Mosley is interested in (apart from his well-publicized habits) is politic. The man seems to create one political obstacle after another, rush through it successfully and feel intense pleasure in the process. So whether it is KERS, OWG, OMG or anything else – the end result is irrelevant – only the current political struggle counts.
Sadly, but is is so.
Once the teams created a united front (unthinkable during Mr. Todt's tenure at Ferrari) and created a well-crafted list of proposals, FIA started to deliberately ignore the diffusor question in order to throw FOTA into disarray. Crazy WMSC decision is another political maneuver to destabilize FOTA and bring more satisfaction to Mosley.
The only thing Mosley is interested in (apart from his well-publicized habits) is politic. The man seems to create one political obstacle after another, rush through it successfully and feel intense pleasure in the process. So whether it is KERS, OWG, OMG or anything else – the end result is irrelevant – only the current political struggle counts.
Sadly, but is is so.
#39
stevvy1986
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:08
Originally posted by ForMules
seeing cheaters competing for wins isn't what we call "exciting"!
cheating by the irrelevent flaws of the FIA rules, made by brities lords, haha, what a mess.
they aren't cheaters, they've just interpreted the rules better than the rest, and if the ICA rules them to be legal, i hope we hear the end of the 'cheating' allegations-i guess you've not thought have you, that down the field theres been better action, more wheel to wheel racing and overtaking, more exciting racing
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#40
Orin
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:28
Originally posted by ForMules
seeing cheaters competing for wins isn't what we call "exciting"!
cheating by the irrelevent flaws of the FIA rules, made by brities lords, haha, what a mess.
brities lords? The level of underlying xenophobia displayed by (some) Spanish posters is staggering.
#41
bogi
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#42
Gareth
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:42
Meant to type "at least as much" rather than "just as much", which was a rather crucial omissionOriginally posted by Buttoneer
Agree with all of the words in this post except 'as much as' which should be replaced with 'more than'. The FIA deserves some credit for taking the time and effort to look into the matter but that's about it. They came up with the CDG wing, after all.
Seems to me the OWG have done a cracking job. I think the FIA deserve credit for setting the OWG up and implementing its conclusions, but the OWG get the lions share as far as I'm concerned.
#43
Decode
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:46
Originally posted by Clatter
This only a problem if the one thing you focus on is who is at the front. There has been some damn good racing elsewhere in the pack, and the cameras this year havent just focused on the leader, but has picked up quite a few of these battles.
Thats always been the case though. The rules were not revamped in 2003 to improve midfield racing. It was done because the racing at the front was non existent.
#44
peroa
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:49
MM had some visions last time he was in the dungeon:
http://www.motorspor...3_09040604.html
A "Worldengine" for 2013. The same engine for F1, Rallye, F2 and other categories. In some series`s they will add a turbo and/or KERS, but basically it will be the same engine.
http://www.motorspor...3_09040604.html
A "Worldengine" for 2013. The same engine for F1, Rallye, F2 and other categories. In some series`s they will add a turbo and/or KERS, but basically it will be the same engine.
#45
Decode
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:50
Originally posted by Gareth
Seems to me the OWG have done a cracking job. .
If that was the case why was Alonso able to hold off Kimi for so long? I thought it really undermined the new regulations. I think we might have ugly cars for nothing.
#46
Apollonius
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 13:50
Oh god!
A "world engine"?? Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse!
A "world engine"?? Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse!
#48
Gareth
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 14:02
Kimi got by, right? In races in recent seasons, they would have run like that until pit stop time.Originally posted by Decode
If that was the case why was Alonso able to hold off Kimi for so long? I thought it really undermined the new regulations. I think we might have ugly cars for nothing.
I thought that fight (and others) showed that the balance between encouraging overtaking, but not making it so easy as to be valueless, seems to be being hit well.
#49
27GV
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 14:10
Originally posted by peroa
MM had some visions last time he was in the dungeon:
http://www.motorspor...3_09040604.html
A "Worldengine" for 2013. The same engine for F1, Rallye, F2 and other categories. In some series`s they will add a turbo and/or KERS, but basically it will be the same engine.
Didn't they have an idea in 1989? to run touring car racing with F1 engines but only Alfa made a car?
#50
united
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Posted 06 April 2009 - 14:58
World Motosport Council should reside in Chelsea dungeon with the girls, it will decrease costs dramatically.
