Trulli lied also

So it seems that Trulli isn't very honest with us ether. Maybe that's why we didn't see Toyotas team radio being published around.

Let me explain my self.

Hamilton didn't overtake Trulli when he slowed down as he him self said. And we saw in the video and heard from Mclaren radio. So you can stay behind a car if it slows down. So why did Trulli overtook Hamilton?

Should Montoya overtake Schumacher here? With out worrying?
http://www.youtube.c...UXnxUhI0lM&NR=1
Schumacher slowed down but Montoya stayed behind him. It is possible.

According to his interview { http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74148 } he knew that you must not overtake back, when you went of the track. So when asked why did he overtake, he then says that he thought that Hamilton had problem and mechanical troubles. But that is a lie because in his radio communication he clearly states "I thought he gave me the position".
So he knew that Hamilton was confused and was slowing down to give him the position and NOT because he had mechanical problems but he still overtook.

It seems to me that someone else has to be penalized for lying also.

Originally posted by Monad
Should Montoya overtake Schumacher here? With out worrying?
http://www.youtube.c...UXnxUhI0lM&NR=1
Schumacher slowed down but Montoya stayed behind him. It is possible.

That was when the safety car had indicated it was pulling in. At that point the leader can go at basically whatever pace he wants as he effectively becomes the safety car

I don't care enough about it to understand the semantics of wtf Trulli said, but this whole thing does set an interesting precedent, doesn't it? As if drivers aren't careful enough with what they say already.

Trulli also lied about the speed he and Lewis were travelling. For an F1 driver who has to relay all kinds of technical information over a lap this simple fact of speed should have been easy for Trulli to know.

Originally posted by Monad
According to his interview { http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/74148 } he knew that you must not overtake back, when you went of the track. So when asked why did he overtake, he then says that he thought that Hamilton had problem and mechanical troubles. But that is a lie because in his radio communication he clearly states "I thought he gave me the position".
So he knew that Hamilton was confused and was slowing down to give him the position and NOT because he had mechanical problems but he still overtook.

That could easily be interpreted as Trulli saying he thought Hamilton gave him the position because of Hamilton having some sort of mechanical issue, not specifically because of what happened when Hamilton passed Trulli originally

Originally posted by Monad


Should Montoya overtake Schumacher here? With out worrying?
http://www.youtube.c...UXnxUhI0lM&NR=1
Schumacher slowed down but Montoya stayed behind him. It is possible.

Sporting Regulations Say : When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.


So no, Montoya can't overtake, Schu dictates the pace

Any lies that Trulli said would of been typical bending of the truth that any driver does when they give an account of their side of the story. If you punish that, you punish both drivers every single time a driver has an incident with another driver.

Lewis and McLaren (apparently) lied point blank to a straight question. A question that has no grey area (unlike the "side of the story" above where it's open to debate), and that team radio, and media comments proves was a lie. A lie that made the stewards seem very silly. That's basically the difference.

Pls delete this Thread.

Originally posted by HoldenRT
Any lies that Trulli said would of been typical bending of the truth that any driver does when they give an account of their side of the story. If you punish that, you punish both drivers every single time a driver has an incident with another driver.

Lewis and McLaren (apparently) lied point blank to a straight question. A question that has no grey area (unlike the "side of the story" above where it's open to debate), and that team radio, and media comments proves was a lie. A lie that made the stewards seem very silly. That's basically the difference.

Deception is deception

Originally posted by engel


Sporting Regulations Say : When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.


So no, Montoya can't overtake, Schu dictates the pace

Yes but the purpose of me putting the video wasn't to talk about the rules but to show that it is possible to stay behind a slow car when you know that's what you have to do.

Originally posted by Monad


Yes but the purpose of me putting the video wasn't to talk about the rules but to show that it is possible to stay behind a slow car when you know that's what you have to do.

well you chose a bad example then. Slow car on any safety car lap EXCEPT when the safety car is going in -> you overtake. The rules are very clear. Nobody says a formula 1 car can't drive around at 20mph, of course it can. The rules stipulate though that if a car slows down behind the SC you can overtake it UNLESS safety car is going in that lap.

Originally posted by engel
Nobody says a formula 1 car can't drive around at 20mph, of course it can.

I can't.
~40km/h is the absolute minimum ("smallest" 1st gear like Monaco)... otherwize the driver needs to shift to Neutral and "let it roll" to be able to run slower.

HaPe
*edit: mixed up mp/h vs. km/h

Originally posted by Monad
So why did Trulli overtook Hamilton?

http://forums.autosp...threadid=107445

http://www.planetf1....5133168,00.html

Jarno's onboard showed he lied when he said he had no choice but to overtake, he didn't slow at all just drove past. That's why IMO he didn't ask for his onboard to be shown at the hearing. Not that this means he's a bad person, but important for us to take note, when some people start trying to make out he's an innocent victim - he wanted 3rd and his view was shaped accordingly. Also it's an answer to those who seem to think that Ryan/Hamilton's lies were the first and worst and only lies since dinosaurs roamed the earth.

Originally posted by Monad


Yes but the purpose of me putting the video wasn't to talk about the rules but to show that it is possible to stay behind a slow car when you know that's what you have to do.

Yes ofcourse you can
Trulli didnot overtake Lewis just coz his car cant go 30 Kph.
its coz Lewis moved out of the racing line and was going slow!(which he at that time thought Lewis had some sort of problem)
and you can see after Trulli passes the truck, he slows down and looks in the mirror.... realizing Lewis is behind him and puts his left hand in the air...like wtf is going on!

Everybody lies - get over it.

Originally posted by undersquare
That's why IMO he didn't ask for his onboard to be shown at the hearing.

its upto the stewards as to what's shown and used, regardless of whether a driver does or doesnt ask for something to be shown/heard

Originally posted by sreevishnu

Yes ofcourse you can
Trulli didnot overtake Lewis just coz his car cant go 30 Kph.
its coz Lewis moved out of the racing line and was going slow!(which he at that time thought Lewis had some sort of problem)
and you can see after Trulli passes the truck, he slows down and looks in the mirror.... realizing Lewis is behind him and puts his left hand in the air...like wtf is going on!

Toyota team radio.
http://www.wrzuta.pl...io_melbourne_09

Do you hear when he says "I thought he gave me the position". NOT that he had a problem.

Did he ever say he thought Hamilton had a problem ???

Meh I m reaching the end of my tether with this ... Hamilton slowed down, gave trulli the position, trulli took it. What are you trying to proove? McLaren said it 100 times Lewis let Trulli through on pitwall orders

Originally posted by Monad


Toyota team radio.
http://www.wrzuta.pl...io_melbourne_09

Do you hear when he says "I thought he gave me the position". NOT that he had a problem.

exactly...... First Trulli thought he had a problem and overtook him
Then and you can see after Trulli passes the truck, he slows down and looks in the mirror.... realizing Lewis is behind him and puts his left hand in the air...like wtf is going on!
Then he goes to the Team radio and said that "i think he gave me the position" Understood now?

Originally posted by sreevishnu

exactly...... First Trulli thought he had a problem and overtook him
Then and you can see after Trulli passes the truck, he slows down and looks in the mirror.... realizing Lewis is behind him and puts his left hand in the air...like wtf is going on!
Then he goes to the Team radio and said that "i think he gave me the position" Understood now?

What to you have a hearing problem. First the word is "thought" and not "think" and is also obvious because he is describing what happened and he passed him to the team. Did you even hear the team radio?

Originally posted by Scotracer
Everybody lies - get over it.

Yeah, but only Lewis and McLaren are crucified for it.

Originally posted by engel
Did he ever say he thought Hamilton had a problem ???

Meh I m reaching the end of my tether with this ... Hamilton slowed down, gave trulli the position, trulli took it. What are you trying to proove? McLaren said it 100 times Lewis let Trulli through on pitwall orders

No he doesn't say that he thought he had a problem. And what i am saying is simple. That Trulli lied when he said to the stewards that i overtook him because i thought he had a problem.

Originally posted by stevvy1986


its upto the stewards as to what's shown and used, regardless of whether a driver does or doesnt ask for something to be shown/heard

Obviously. A driver can ask though, and as far as we know he didn't, when otherwise it would have been good evidence for his version.

Originally posted by Monad


What to you have a hearing problem. First the word is "thought" and not "think" and is also obvious because he is describing what happened and he passed him to the team. Did you even hear the team radio?

I have hearing problems, and could you give me 1000$ for treatment?

Jokes apart....what are u trying to prove mate?get over it!

its my mistake, i wrote it "think" rather than "thought"!
i dont think that makes any difference!

You cannot pick on grammar.....as he is not English...it could be that he made a wrong grammar mistake? !

And even if he said lies what is the problem here? its not like he was caught with balantly lying and dishonest behavior like Lewis!
Just get over it!!

I've got over it, but for what it's worth, here's a transcript of the relevant exchanges on Trulli's radio communications (feels a lot less relevant now, though...). I did it the other night, mainly from the YouTube video transcription, but didn't get around to posting it.

[...] means a break in transmission; R.E. is Trulli's Race Engineer (Gianluca Pisanello?)

R.E.: Jarno, where did Hamilton overtake you?

J.T.: 16th corner. Where I went out - I was joining the circuit when he overtook me.

R.E. So was it before the safety car, or after the safety car?

J.T. Whereabouts, I don’t know, it’s difficult to say.

R.E. Ok, was it in the area of the yellow flag?

J.T. Yeah, there were yellow flags, yes.

R.E. Ok, ok, Hamilton overtook on yellow flag… […] Ok, so Jarno, you don’t do any manoeuvre, you stay where you are, we are on the case with Hamilton. […] Jarno - final lap, final lap... [...] Did Hamilton let you past, or what happened, because you are in front of him now?

J.T. He slow down - a lot, a lot, a lot, and I thought he was giving me the position, so, what I did, I overtook him, and then I slow down again, just to let him by again, and he didn’t, so I don’t know exactly what happened…

R.E. [You tried to] let him past again, but he didn’t pass again - ok, this is clear.

J.T. Very clear, very clear like that. I… I… pass by next to him, and then I slow down again, and he didn’t overtake me back.

R.E. Ok, Jarno, this is very clear. You are P3. You are P3. Just close the lap. The Safety Car will come in, but nobody can overtake you, of course, so just close the lap. [...]

J.T. … the Safety Car, I was trying to understand, but it was impossible, you gave me so much things, and I didn’t know what to do, I was in trouble.

R.E. Yeah. Of course, Jarno, of course, I know we had to keep giving you the information, I think…

No, what Jarno ACTUALLY says is:

"He slowed down a lot a lot a lot and I thought he was giving me the position. So what I did was overtook him and then slowed down just to let him by again and he didn't. So I don't know exactly what happened there."

Then he said AFTER the race:

"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race Lewis Hamilton passed me but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road.

"I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."

So technically he DIDN'T lie because he said in the car "I don't know exactly what happened there." and then said after that he THOUGHT Lewis had a problem and he THOUGHT Lewis had given him the position. He was as aware at the time of what was going on as Lewis was.

It's quite sad that this has all happened at all, without fans bitching and throwing blame all over the place. Don't we have enough of that in the sport?

Edit: Posted before the above thread was read! Thanks for that. Proves that everyone involved was as confused as hell!

Originally posted by vicksplum
No, what Jarno ACTUALLY says is:

"He slowed down a lot a lot a lot and I thought he was giving me the position. So what I did was overtook him and then slowed down just to let him by again and he didn't. So I don't know exactly what happened there."

Then he said AFTER the race:

"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race Lewis Hamilton passed me but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road.

"I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."

So technically he DIDN'T lie because he said in the car "I don't know exactly what happened there." and then said after that he THOUGHT Lewis had a problem and he THOUGHT Lewis had given him the position. He was as aware at the time of what was going on as Lewis was.

It's quite sad that this has all happened at all, without fans bitching and throwing blame all over the place. Don't we have enough of that in the sport?

Edit: Posted before the above thread was read! Thanks for that. Proves that everyone involved was as confused as hell!

You just forgot the part where he says there was nothing he could do...
Well he could have slowed down also...

This really is beyond all sense of reason now but here my view

The reason trulli got the penalty was from passing under yellow flags

Trulli told the stewards i passed him because i thought he had a problem.

Radio talk from Trulli suggests otherwise.

So is this a great big lie too.

Originally posted by sreevishnu


And even if he said lies what is the problem here? its not like he was caught with balantly lying and dishonest behavior like Lewis!
Just get over it!!

Sorry I really can't see the difference - particularly if he claimed he HAD to pass to the stewards. That would have been a lie designed to gain an unfair advantage from the stewards.

Every driver i bet has lied to a steward at some point.

As I am sure everyone on this board has lied to someone at some point.

Who gives a S%%t

Originally posted by vicksplum
Edit: Posted before the above thread was read! Thanks for that. Proves that everyone involved was as confused as hell!

It's ok, I think we both clicked at the same time!

Originally posted by naboo81
This really is beyond all sense of reason now but here my view

The reason trulli got the penalty was from passing under yellow flags

Trulli told the stewards i passed him because i thought he had a problem.

Radio talk from Trulli suggests otherwise.

So is this a great big lie too.

Exactly. Why is this lie a less lie than the other lie. None of them should be in the podium then. They both lied.

Originally posted by Monad


Exactly. Why is this lie a less lie than the other lie. None of them should be in the podium then. They both lied.

Lets DQ them both! and we will put Alonso on the Podium!
then we all can see the fights with Alonso fans and bashers
and we can open alot of thread in the BB and fight!
good luck

The solution is simple.

Promote Hamilton to first and disqualify Trulli.

See? Now all the whinging McLaren supporters are happy

Oh, wait. That means Toyota fans will be pissed.......................

Quite amusing listening to the Toyota radio.. they had a conversation about Hamilton passing Trulli under yellow flags! I don't think either Toyota or McLaren understood just how badly Trulli had left the circuit, which is understandable considering it wasn't captured on TV.

Originally posted by sreevishnu

Lets DQ them both! and we will put Alonso on the Podium!
then we all can see the fights with Alonso fans and bashers
and we can open alot of thread in the BB and fight!
good luck

Well that's nice and all but actually it's Glock that gets the podium.

Originally posted by bond


You just forgot the part where he says there was nothing he could do...
Well he could have slowed down also...

J.T. He slow down - a lot, a lot, a lot, and I thought he was giving me the position, so, what I did, I overtook him, and then I slow down again, just to let him by again, and he didn’t, so I don’t know exactly what happened…

R.E. [You tried to] let him past again, but he didn’t pass again - ok, this is clear.

J.T. Very clear, very clear like that. I… I… pass by next to him, and then I slow down again, and he didn’t overtake me back.

You mean that part?

The reason trulli got the penalty was from passing under yellow flags

Trulli told the stewards i passed him because i thought he had a problem.

Radio talk from Trulli suggests otherwise.

So is this a great big lie too .

No I dont think it was a lie at all. Jarno just explained what he thought happened there.

If he had been asked a simpel yes or no question like "did the team instruckt you to pass him" and he had said "Yes", then it would have been a great big simple lie.
Now he was in the gray area, where he could say what he felt/thought happened at that moment, and you cannot judge his answer as a lie

It is obvious that Hamilton fan boys have hard time to swallow this bitter medicine, but you should learn from Lewis how he admits his mistake and not to redo it never again

This thread is quite :

In the video Trulli is going at a normal speed and Hamilton has pulled over the side going slow. Trulli caught him on the bend where Lewis had pulled over going slow, you can see Trulli overtaking then he slows down and raises his hand in frustration as if to say 'what the hell are you doing Lewis, looked like you had a problem, you want the position back' Lewis didn't retake the position.

I think this whole topic is a lie....saying Jarno lied is a lie.

Originally posted by Phucaigh
In the video Trulli is going at a normal speed and Hamilton has pulled over the side going slow. Trulli caught him on the bend where Lewis had pulled over going slow, you can see Trulli overtaking then he slows down and raises his hand in frustration as if to say 'what the hell are you doing Lewis, looked like you had a problem, you want the position back' Lewis didn't retake the position.

I think this whole topic is a lie....saying Jarno lied is a lie.

Yea, this thread is a bit ridiculous. I think some people are just upset and misery loves company. Their team/driver got taken down and they're desparately clawing to try and take down sombody with them.

Originally posted by Phucaigh
In the video Trulli is going at a normal speed and Hamilton has pulled over the side going slow. Trulli caught him on the bend where Lewis had pulled over going slow, you can see Trulli overtaking then he slows down and raises his hand in frustration as if to say 'what the hell are you doing Lewis, looked like you had a problem, you want the position back' Lewis didn't retake the position.

I think this whole topic is a lie....saying Jarno lied is a lie.

Jarno said to the press, and presumably to the stewards, "I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do". Looking at the onboard that is a big a lie as anything - if Trulli slows it's not noticable... He goes past at full speed (well, full safety car speed anyway) and I don't think for a second he cares about why Lewis slows, he is dead set on third at that point. Not that I CARE that Trulli lies too, but he does.

Originally posted by Tomerell



No I dont think it was a lie at all. Jarno just explained what he thought happened there.

If he had been asked a simpel yes or no question like "did the team instruckt you to pass him" and he had said "Yes", then it would have been a great big simple lie.
Now he was in the gray area, where he could say what he felt/thought happened at that moment, and you cannot judge his answer as a lie

It is obvious that Hamilton fan boys have hard time to swallow this bitter medicine, but you should learn from Lewis how he admits his mistake and not to redo it never again

This thread is quite :

Hold on a second.

One is a person telling people that something that did happen didn't. The other is another person telling people that something that didn't happen, did.

I guess they differ enormously if you dislike the first person.

I think this whole topic is a lie....saying Jarno lied is a lie. [/B]

Agreed - but it goes against the Hamilton supporter's creed to say otherwise

Originally posted by Henrik Brodin


Jarno said to the press, and presumably to the stewards, "I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do". Looking at the onboard that is a big a lie as anything - if Trulli slows it's not noticable... He goes past at full speed (well, full safety car speed anyway) and I don't think for a second he cares about why Lewis slows, he is dead set on third at that point. Not that I CARE that Trulli lies too, but he does.

I'm still not seeing where this 'lie' is. :

That he thought Lewis had a problem? How do we know for sure that he was not thinking at the time that *maybe* Lewis had a problem and thats why he was giving him the position? That would make sense as he would have seen Lewis speed back up afterwards onto the back of him, and that would explain why Trulli slowed to let Lewis back by.

This thread is just full of people grasping at straws.

Originally posted by Henrik Brodin


Jarno said to the press, and presumably to the stewards, "I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do". Looking at the onboard that is a big a lie as anything - if Trulli slows it's not noticable... He goes past at full speed (well, full safety car speed anyway) and I don't think for a second he cares about why Lewis slows, he is dead set on third at that point. Not that I CARE that Trulli lies too, but he does.

If you see he was trying to catch lewis right after the entered the track.
He catched lewis before they exit the turn and he just passed him after that.
If he wanted to keep behind lewis he would have slowed down, but he choose to pass him and when he realised the mistake he beaked in the hopes lewis would retake the place...

Originally posted by Henrik Brodin


Jarno said to the press, and presumably to the stewards, "I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do". Looking at the onboard that is a big a lie as anything - if Trulli slows it's not noticable... He goes past at full speed (well, full safety car speed anyway) and I don't think for a second he cares about why Lewis slows, he is dead set on third at that point. Not that I CARE that Trulli lies too, but he does.

Also this quote "And before overtaking him I went next to him to make sure that I was not breaking the rules." is from his interview.
Did you see anyone slowing down next to anyone? From the video is obvious that he never did such a thing. So don't tell me that it's impossible for Trulli to lie.

Originally posted by Henrik Brodin


Jarno said to the press, and presumably to the stewards, "I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do". Looking at the onboard that is a big a lie as anything - if Trulli slows it's not noticable... He goes past at full speed (well, full safety car speed anyway) and I don't think for a second he cares about why Lewis slows, he is dead set on third at that point. Not that I CARE that Trulli lies too, but he does.

How long does it take for you to decide something?

If you saw someone walk across the road in front of you, do you
A - Keep going and knock them down and say 'well, I was trying to decide if they would make it across in time and by the time I decided the car had knocked the person down', its not my fault.
B - without thinking but acting instinctively, slow down and allow the person to cross the word.

I would say B, it is the same for a racing driver to act instinctively, Jarno acted instinctively when he saw Lewis slow and pull over, Trulli has been in enough races to recognise that normally means a problem, who in their right mind would slow down and go off the racing line to drive on the dirty part of the track slowly unless they had a problem.

I think some people are blind to natural instinct, like making a split decision, it wasn't hard to come to a conclusion that Lewis was going slow and then when he pulled over off the racing line he must have a problem and in that case no option but to pass which is allowed in the rules.

Trulli is a liar if no driver uses their instinct when driving, these drivers are able to go extremely fast and make split second decisions, like Trulli was going slow compared to normal circumstances so imagine how slow Lewis was going - 15 mph....

Originally posted by Monad


Also this quote "And before overtaking him I went next to him to make sure that I was not breaking the rules." is from his interview.
Did you see anyone slowing down next to anyone? From the video is obvious that he never did such a thing. So don't tell me that it's impossible for Trulli to lie.

15mph is slow for an F1 driver.

Originally posted by Phucaigh


15mph is slow for an F1 driver.

Source for that 15mph?