Is this a Button vs Vettel season?

The poll should be self-explanatory.

I'm voting yes. We have an increasingly competitive Red Bull which is yet to put in the diffusors, versus a Brawn with a points lead and a seemingly consistent points-collector in Button - whereas Vettel has looked a little more ragged with mistakes in the first 2 races. This is going to be a fascinating year.

I'm not ruling out Webber to make an impression at some point of the season, and surely some other teams will get a win or two, but I think the championship is between Jenson and Sebastian. And I've voted in Vettel to win.

No, the championship will be decided between button and his concentration. If he keeps getting the best possible results as in the first 3 races he'll win it easily. Today the BrawnGP car wasn't fast enough to compete with the Red Bulls, but that was because of the rain. In dry conditions it's still better by a few tenth / lap.

Originally posted by Hippo
Today the BrawnGP car wasn't fast enough to compete with the Red Bulls, but that was because of the rain. In dry conditions it's still better by a few tenth / lap.

True but Red Bull is getting closer, fuel-corrected their qualifying yesterday was about 2-3 tenths short of the Brawns, bolt in the new diffusor and that car is likely to become the quickest in the grid.

It seems to be accepted by most, that difussers gave drivers who have them unfair advantage over others. Easy win for ex-Honda team basically makes any fair comparison therefore impossible. I have therefore abstained from voting despite my believe, that in inverse situation, JB riding Red Bull, he would not be anywhere close in points that he is having now.

I expect the top teams to up their game. True, Ferrari seems in a state of total disarray, McLaren has too many political problems. That leaves Renault. But when racing returns to Europe things will probably change.

It would,of course,be awesome if this were the case,but I don't think so.I'll wait and see how RBR perform at some of the other types of circuit before drawing conclusions.Most teams would have their upgrades ready in time for the European season,and my greatest worry is the new diffuser Newey's team is working on-what if the necessary alterations to the rear end of the car mess the balance up? There's quite a bit of work to be done in this area,isn't there? They'll probably do a good job of it,no doubt,but I'm just afraid the end result may be a car that handles significantly differently to the one they have now (one that the drivers are comfortable with,from the looks of it)-how well can they adapt? Or what if it's just an ill-handling machine? Then there's the reliability issues to consider...

They could always go back to the A car,but my feeling is that the DDD may become vitally important as to render a car with a normal diffuser uncompetitive as the season wears on.

I suspect that Hamilton will be very much in the fight within a couple of races, Hamilton moving up the grid with every race

IMO other teams will win races too.

I just can't see Brawn fighting KERS teams, if KERS becomes an advantage. I already wrote, that i see RB becoming best car on the grid as they don't have either DD or KERS installed yet. Renault also improved as has McLaren in Chine and i expect more to come from BMW too. I also can't count out Ferrari just yet.

If i have to pick a favorite to win championship, my gues is Vettel.

All gonna depend on the the development race between the constructors.

Originally posted by MiPe
It seems to be accepted by most, that difussers gave drivers who have them unfair advantage over others. Easy win for ex-Honda team basically makes any fair comparison therefore impossible. I have therefore abstained from voting despite my believe, that in inverse situation, JB riding Red Bull, he would not be anywhere close in points that he is having now.

This thread isn't about rating drivers, it's about who's going to fight for the championship.

Originally posted by FA and RK fan
IMO other teams will win races too.
i see RB becoming best car on the grid as they don't have either DD or KERS installed yet. .

I think thats too simplistic, while they don't have a DD, its not like the situation Ferrari and others have found themselves, in, they have taken a clever direction with there back hand that has given competitive performance with DD, its might not be compatible (or fully anyway) with a DD.

I haven't voted either but after today's race it is tempting to judge it a Button versus Vettel season. However I still think its way too early to judge. Both have competitive teammates and you cannot discount other teams just yet.

Originally posted by pippin
I haven't voted either but after today's race it is tempting to judge it a Button versus Vettel season. However I still think its way too early to judge. Both have competitive teammates and you cannot discount other teams just yet.

Just as an example, Peugeot won the first four Le Mans Series races (out of 5) in 2008, then completely messed up the final one and won nothing. This is just three races in, and as good as the RBR & Brawn's look so far, anything could happen yet.

Originally posted by paranoik0


True but Red Bull is getting closer, fuel-corrected their qualifying yesterday was about 2-3 tenths short of the Brawns, bolt in the new diffusor and that car is likely to become the quickest in the grid.

That is highly probable, but let's wait until RedBull bolt than DDD onto their car like Renault did in China and see whether it does give the team considerable advantages. McLaren seemed to get some advantages out of their improved conventional diffuser, but not enough to sligshot them past Brawn-Merc and RBR.

But RedBull show absolute commitment in sending their top designer, Newer back to the factory to finetune this piece of equipment while they were racing in Shanghai.

-KB

Originally posted by MiPe
It seems to be accepted by most, that difussers gave drivers who have them unfair advantage over others. Easy win for ex-Honda team basically makes any fair comparison therefore impossible. I have therefore abstained from voting despite my believe, that in inverse situation, JB riding Red Bull, he would not be anywhere close in points that he is having now.

I think most people would agree the DDD gives drivers an advantage, but I think you'd struggle to find "most" who think that was unfair. All the teams had the same regulations to build a car too. Some drivers drive for teams who optimised them in the difuser arera and some do not. Same as some drive for teams with pushrod suspension and some do not, etc.

But back on topic, I think the deciding factor will be the weather. RBR are going to take some time to get a DDD on their car, and if it is dry races all the way to that point then Jenson will run away and win easily, with Barrichello second. If we get wet races at the first couple of European races than things can be very different and give RBR the chance to stay close, and give chances to others.

It is very hard to judge whether other teams can come back as development without testing is unknown quantity. My gut says McLaren with it's simulation tools is the most likely contender, and it's KERS could be enough to get it close early enough to make them a competitor.

Originally posted by Kelateboy

That is highly probable, but let's wait until RedBull bolt than DDD onto their car like Renault did in China and see whether it does give the team considerable advantages. McLaren seemed to get some advantages out of their DDD, but not enough to sligshot them past Brawn-Merc and RBR.

McLaren didn't use a DDD in China, just an improved conventional diffuser.

But RedBull show absolute commitment in sending their top designer, Newer back to the factory to finetune this piece of equipment while they were racing in Shanghai.

-KB

It's a bit funny how Newey had to watch his car getting his first victory from the TV. He must be thinking "damn I wish I was there".

Premise of the thread presumes that WDC fight is between two drivers. That, I think, is premature conclusion. I am fan of Seb, but I would be happy of he ends up near top three this year. I dare so, because Red Bull's car seems to be better than I initially thought. Originally I was hoping for range P5 - 8. Now it's P3 to P6.

Originally posted by MiPe
I have therefore abstained from voting despite my believe, that in inverse situation, JB riding Red Bull, he would not be anywhere close in points that he is having now.

Well neither are Vettel and Webber. It's Jenson who's leading, not them.

Originally posted by MiPe
It seems to be accepted by most, that difussers gave drivers who have them unfair advantage over others. Easy win for ex-Honda team basically makes any fair comparison therefore impossible. I have therefore abstained from voting despite my believe, that in inverse situation, JB riding Red Bull, he would not be anywhere close in points that he is having now.

Actually, I don't think Button would be doing much worse in a Red Bull. He would have likely taken 3rd in Australia (Kubica would have taken 2nd) - 6 points. No grid penalty for Malaysia puts him in the top 5 on the grid, and with the changing conditions I suspect he would have had a shot at the win in a Red Bull. But let's figure a conservative fourth place for him there - 2.5 points. Swap him and Vettel and he likely wins in China in what was clearly a superior car for the conditions. But again let's be conservative and say that Webber edges him out for the win so he takes 2nd - 8 points. Total = 16.5 figuring conservatively, versus the 21 he has now.

Originally posted by TickTickBooom

Well neither are Vettel and Webber. It's Jenson who's leading, not them.

I am sorry TickTick, but Seb is "my" new hero. That doesn't mean I wish to pile up on fans of JB.

Originally posted by tkulla


Actually, I don't think Button would be doing much worse in a Red Bull. He would have likely taken 3rd in Australia (Kubica would have taken 2nd) - 6 points. No grid penalty for Malaysia puts him in the top 5 on the grid, and with the changing conditions I suspect he would have had a shot at the win in a Red Bull. But let's figure a conservative fourth place for him there - 2.5 points. Swap him and Vettel and he likely wins in China in what was clearly a superior car for the conditions. But again let's be conservative and say that Webber edges him out for the win so he takes 2nd - 8 points. Total = 16.5 figuring conservatively, versus the 21 he has now.

Maybe; it's just an idle talk between races. JB shines for TickTick, whereas I am glowing after China. Considering how season went thus far, I did need a well deserved break...

I think/hope Hamilton will join them. He has finished ahead of where he started every race so far and, as soon as the MP4-24 becomes capable, he'll return to the front.

I don't think Brawn or Red Bull would let Barrichello or Webber seriously challenge and jeopardize a WDC bid, even though they still have time to effectively force their way through.

Originally posted by paranoik0

McLaren didn't use a DDD in China, just an improved conventional diffuser.

I stand corrected. You are right - McLaren used an improved conventional diffuser and not a DDD.

I saw the picture of a different diffuser than the one McLaren used in Malaysia and Australia on another webpage and automatically assumed it was a DDD. I went back to check the said picture, and yes, it was not a double decker.

Not being a McLaren's fan, I did not pay too much attention to details. My mistake.

-KB

Originally posted by MiPe
Maybe; it's just an idle talk between races. JB shines for TickTick, whereas I am glowing after China. Considering how season went thus far, I did need a well deserved break...

Well imagine how I must be feeling after two years of supporting Jenson in a Honda.

Yes, I was disappointed with the result today but I know I shouldn't be. A podium's awesome and that's what he needs right now; consistent results that will lead to the championship. But I like it when he wins.

Yeah, I know it well...

McLaren are coming fast and Toyota cannot be ignored, remnember RBR were VERY light.

Is this thread a reaction to Vettel being the first person to beat Jesnon after only three races?;)

It depends on the cars IMO.