What is a successful return for Michael Schumacher? Try to be realistic. Keep in mind the limitations of the car he has to work with. Ross Brawn isn't pulling rabbits out of a hat there anymore. Their focus is on next year, not beating Hamilton so get real on that dream fight.
Define a successful 2009 for Michael Schumacher
Started by
nordschleife
, Jul 29 2009 21:03
143 replies to this topic
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#2
Dragonfly
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:07
Steady and constant performance and finishing in the poins is quite enough for me.
#3
MikeTekRacing
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:09
racing 
it's a win win situation for him, his fans, ferrari fans, f1 fans, promoters..
in a year marked by fota vs fia, massa's accident people will have something really wanting to see on track
it's a win win situation for him, his fans, ferrari fans, f1 fans, promoters..
in a year marked by fota vs fia, massa's accident people will have something really wanting to see on track
#4
Atreiu
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:09
How many races will he get?
#5
rolf123
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:10
Steady and constant performance and finishing in the poins is quite enough for me.
Let's face it, if Schumi comes back and has some great dices in the midfield, it will be amazing.
If he does this regularly, the entire championship will be overshadowed by the return of Schumi.
Brawn who? Red Bull who? Everybody will be watching F1 to see Schumi!!!!
#6
scheivlak
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:10
Getting the best out of the car.
#7
stevewf1
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:11
A win. This is Michael Schumacher, after all...
#8
salamin
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:12
beating his teammate should do the job
#9
AvranaKern
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:12
Beating other world champions will be enough for me, especially the ice one.
#10
D.M.N.
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:14
Points. Anything else is a bonus.
#11
JensonF1
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:18
There is much to look forward to, he isn't just going to trail around picking up points.
The attitude of Kimi towards his new challenger will be especially interesting.
The speed of Schumi in qualifying, relative to his team mate.
The strategy calls he makes in races.
The racecraft and inevitable battles with Hamilton & Alonso.
Even if Ferrari haven't quite got the legs to put Schumi in contention for a win, it will be good to see him scrapping in the action again.
PS Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. In 2004 I was sick of him winning. In 2005 I was rooting for Alonso. In 2006 I was glad to see the back of him.
We Brits seem to have a new found respect for the Red Baron!
The attitude of Kimi towards his new challenger will be especially interesting.
The speed of Schumi in qualifying, relative to his team mate.
The strategy calls he makes in races.
The racecraft and inevitable battles with Hamilton & Alonso.
Even if Ferrari haven't quite got the legs to put Schumi in contention for a win, it will be good to see him scrapping in the action again.
PS Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. In 2004 I was sick of him winning. In 2005 I was rooting for Alonso. In 2006 I was glad to see the back of him.
We Brits seem to have a new found respect for the Red Baron!
Edited by JensonF1, 29 July 2009 - 21:19.
#12
FlashMaster
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:20
People seem to forget that he did not drive this car, doesn't know the behavior of those slicks and so on. I hope he'll be within 1sec behind Kimi, Mika was 4 secs off the pace
#13
JPW
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:21
Yep I agree, just racing would be enough.racing
it's a win win situation for him, his fans, ferrari fans, f1 fans, promoters..
in a year marked by fota vs fia, massa's accident people will have something really wanting to see on track
#14
MikeTekRacing
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:24
he can be within 1 sec in the first 2 laps in the f60...that's not really a challenge for himPeople seem to forget that he did not drive this car, doesn't know the behavior of those slicks and so on. I hope he'll be within 1sec behind Kimi, Mika was 4 secs off the pace
the last 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 are difficult to find
remember, jaime did it, i think ms is at least able to equal that.
he has 4 weeks to prepare himself for that, I really think he is excited when going to sleep tonight, after the announcement..no matter how much experience you have, this is thrilling....
Edited by MikeTekRacing, 29 July 2009 - 21:25.
#15
ademm
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:28
Assuming he will race for full 7 races, Ferrari 3rd at WCC and him outscoring Kimi in the WDC.
Except for the next race where he can use as a test session I think he will outperform or match Kimi.
Except for the next race where he can use as a test session I think he will outperform or match Kimi.
#16
FI-Addict
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:35
I'd imagine lower points positions in Valencia and most races, maybe challenging for a podium in Spa and Suzuka. I wouldn't rule out a win, possibly in Abu Dhabi given that by then he'll know the car and the track's new to everyone. It largely depends on car developments though.
#17
JensonF1
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:39
Loeb and Schumacher at Abu Dhabi. What's the chances they'll crash and take out the championship leaders? 
#18
Gilles12
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:40
A successful '09?
I'd imagine he gave up on justifying himself a few years back and every day he wakes up is even more gravy!
This is probably why he races bikes
Even Aldrin felt there was nothing to do post 20.07.69
I'd imagine he gave up on justifying himself a few years back and every day he wakes up is even more gravy!
This is probably why he races bikes
Even Aldrin felt there was nothing to do post 20.07.69
#19
BRK
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:42
Racing,agreed.That's all I want,and Ferrari are sensible enough to realize expecting too much is unfair.
Edited by BRK, 29 July 2009 - 21:43.
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#20
chrisj
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:43
He's there to win, and I don't think he'd even consider coming back if he didn't think it was possible.
#21
TheHakk
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:43
I wouldn't expect fireworks in Valencia, he not even driven the circuit before (to my knowledge!) and will take time to find the last 0.2-3 tenths of a second as he sharpens up. Points there is my guess.
If he drives Spa and Suzuka (seeemingly likely) then fighting for the win is possible for Schumacher if the car is where it was in terms of pace at Hungary. Schumacher calls Spa his 'living room' and he adores the technical challenge of Suzuka.
I just hope he trashes Raikkenen and wakes him up. I miss the Raikkonen of yesteryear!
As a lifelong Schumacher fan, or a schumi-slammer, you have to respect this massive decision. It's a gamble with everything to lose and nothing to gain except self satisfaction in beating a much younger crop of drivers.
If he drives Spa and Suzuka (seeemingly likely) then fighting for the win is possible for Schumacher if the car is where it was in terms of pace at Hungary. Schumacher calls Spa his 'living room' and he adores the technical challenge of Suzuka.
I just hope he trashes Raikkenen and wakes him up. I miss the Raikkonen of yesteryear!
As a lifelong Schumacher fan, or a schumi-slammer, you have to respect this massive decision. It's a gamble with everything to lose and nothing to gain except self satisfaction in beating a much younger crop of drivers.
#22
dgduris
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:51
I think that a successful stint for MS would to be at Kimi's speed three races on, then to consistently beat him in the remaining races - if Felipe is out that long.
But, what I am really hoping for...would be an absolutely crushing win - utter domination - at Spa!
More likely, though, we'll get some really great battles mid-pack w/ Fernando - which will be great fun to watch.
But, what I am really hoping for...would be an absolutely crushing win - utter domination - at Spa!
More likely, though, we'll get some really great battles mid-pack w/ Fernando - which will be great fun to watch.
#23
intelligentsia
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 21:54
I wouldn't expect fireworks in Valencia, he not even driven the circuit before (to my knowledge!) and will take time to find the last 0.2-3 tenths of a second as he sharpens up. Points there is my guess.
If he drives Spa and Suzuka (seeemingly likely) then fighting for the win is possible for Schumacher if the car is where it was in terms of pace at Hungary. Schumacher calls Spa his 'living room' and he adores the technical challenge of Suzuka.
I just hope he trashes Raikkenen and wakes him up. I miss the Raikkonen of yesteryear!
As a lifelong Schumacher fan, or a schumi-slammer, you have to respect this massive decision. It's a gamble with everything to lose and nothing to gain except self satisfaction in beating a much younger crop of drivers.
The Ferrari wasn't actually that fast in Hungary.
#24
pRy
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:05
A smile at the end of it and a few battles on the track. The rest is a bonus.
#25
VicR
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:08
He needs to do a minimum of a little bit worse than Kimi right now. Because most of the suggested drivers would do that. Be it Bourdais, Fisichella, Buemi etc. Otherwise Ferrari have made a mistake. If he can do that then that will be acceptable in Valencia. If Felipe will be absent for longer then he will need to pick up his pace week by week and close the gap to Kimi. Afterall, Kimi was Luca's choice and getting Michael in the car right now was also Luca's choice.
Edited by VicR, 29 July 2009 - 22:29.
#26
Pikku Pakkanen
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:19
People seem to forget that he did not drive this car, doesn't know the behavior of those slicks and so on. I hope he'll be within 1sec behind Kimi, Mika was 4 secs off the pace
Actually, after 5 years out of F1 cars, Mika was only 2.3 seconds slower than Hamilton in the other McLaren. And he said the car was completely different, full of electronics, compared to the ones that he drove before. Not too bad. And he only had that one day.
Barcelona 30.11.2006
1. Luca Badoer Ferrari 1.16,317 88
2. Heikki Kovalainen Renault 1.16,609 119
3. Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 1.16,729 65
4. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1.17,077 87
5. Rubens Barrichello Honda 1.17,190 115
6. Marc Gené Ferrari 1.17,340 83
7. Ralf Schumacher Toyota 1.17,359 92
8. Nelson Piquet Jr. Renault 1.17,428 95
9. Timo Glock BMW Sauber 1.17,632 100
10. Cristian Klien Honda 1.17,774 105
11. David Coulthard Red Bull 1.17,876 83
12. Jarno Trulli Toyota 1.18,019 72
13. Anthony Davidson Super Aguri 1.18,045 111
14. Narain Karthikeyan Williams 1.18,087 78
15. Scott Speed Toro Rosso 1.18,528 95
16. Michael Ammermüller Red Bull 1.18,741 71
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi Toro Rosso 1.18,798 99
18. Mika Häkkinen McLaren 1.19,340 79
Nowadays the cars and times are much closer, so I think Schumi will be within 1 second right away.
#27
icecream_man
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:21
Making himself look a muppet alongside Kimi would make it pretty successful in my books
Although I do have concerns about the opposite happening
Although I do have concerns about the opposite happening
Edited by icecream_man, 29 July 2009 - 22:24.
#28
icecream_man
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:25
Brawn who? Red Bull who? Everybody will be watching F1 to see Schumi!!!!
Not everyone - some of us aren't so lovestruck ;)
#29
Sakae
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:25
What is a successful return for Michael Schumacher? Try to be realistic. Keep in mind the limitations of the car he has to work with. Ross Brawn isn't pulling rabbits out of a hat there anymore. Their focus is on next year, not beating Hamilton so get real on that dream fight.
1. Unhurt, no kidding.
Just kidding...
2. Giving Kimi run for his money.
3. Beating hui out of RB.
4. Takes P2 after certain protege of his.
Edited by MiPe, 29 July 2009 - 22:27.
#30
Gilles12
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:31
Only 2.3 seconds????
How long was the lap? 7 mins 30s?
#31
Gilles12
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:33
Not everyone - some of us aren't so lovestruck ;)
But you'll be watching
#32
Gilles12
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:36
Making himself look a muppet alongside Kimi would make it pretty successful in my books
Although I do have concerns about the opposite happening
That's perhaps the cockest thing I've seen on this forum - and that's by a long stretch
Oooooh, I sooo do dislike that Michael Schumie chap, and wish him ill!
But hark! He does so well that I am blushing in the cheeks!
Mu hah h ahah ha h a
#33
ZZMS
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:41
a success would be being 0.1-0.15 seconds off Kimi in Q2 in Valencia and Spa and getting better of Kimi from then on.
Edited by ZZMS, 29 July 2009 - 22:41.
#34
Rabbit123
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:52
Ross Brawn didn't pull me out of a hat.What is a successful return for Michael Schumacher? Try to be realistic. Keep in mind the limitations of the car he has to work with. Ross Brawn isn't pulling rabbits out of a hat there anymore. Their focus is on next year, not beating Hamilton so get real on that dream fight.
I think a successful return would be a couple of podiums, possibly a win.
#35
Cenotaph
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:56
A success is doing three or four races and still end up in front of Kimi in the WDC 
#36
rsherb
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 22:58
a success would be being 0.1-0.15 seconds off Kimi in Q2 in Valencia and Spa and getting better of Kimi from then on.
It wouldn't surprise me. The fact that he's seriously considering returning did surprise me..that he would be on or better than Kimi's pace wouldn't.
#37
Greem
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:00
Without being scientific or categorical about this at all, I'd say getting through all the races he ends up doing without looking like a total arse would be quite a success.
The fact that he's never been in the category of "total arse" when it comes to actually *racing* might help. Of course, there were one or two "Anthony Nogues" moments to consider, but they were PR rather than racing...
Much as I dislike MS for the total domination he showed (at the same time as admiring him for the same thing), I'm quite happy to see him come back for a while. Especially if he sticks it to the upstarts
The fact that he's never been in the category of "total arse" when it comes to actually *racing* might help. Of course, there were one or two "Anthony Nogues" moments to consider, but they were PR rather than racing...
Much as I dislike MS for the total domination he showed (at the same time as admiring him for the same thing), I'm quite happy to see him come back for a while. Especially if he sticks it to the upstarts
#38
GregAU
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:04
I would SO laugh my arse off if he came out and won his first race back!
#39
BullHead
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:11
We've all seen what Shumi can do with just a half good car (05 excepted). He'll be full of fresh balls knowing what he has to do given the media momentum that will pressure him. The timing I think is right, cos while the Ferrari is still not so quick, it's better now than it ever has been this year. Wins or close fights for wins I do predict. In fact given the impact this announcement has already made, just sitting in that car will make this a successful 2009 for him. The hype is worth $$$$$$
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#40
MS7XWDC
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:31
well saidracing
it's a win win situation for him, his fans, ferrari fans, f1 fans, promoters..
in a year marked by fota vs fia, massa's accident people will have something really wanting to see on track
#41
valachus
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:33
I would SO laugh my arse off if he came out and won his first race back!
Mate, you do realize that, should he win on merit, it would spell the end of claims to fame eternal for an entire generation of F1 drivers, right? Not to mention the instant mass mental meltdown for the members of the various current f1 fanboy cults? It would be very serious stuff, tragic even, definitely NOT something to laugh about.
#42
Muz Bee
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:35
It's a dream for Ferrari having this 3 driver scenario mess for 2010.
Who were they going to drop if Alonso is coming to Ferrari now becomes apparent. If Michael starts to show up Kimi within say 3 races then Kimi is gone. Michael will stand in for Massa I believe until at least the last race of 2009 and drive development for next year. he will also be available in a floating role or whatever is required pending an outcome on Felipe. Felipe may never recapture winning form, lets hope for the best for him though. Ferrari will have better comparisons made and more options - Kimi could come out the loser but it will still depend on Felipe's recovery being 100% or not.
Michael is more a driver who moulds the team/car to himself, Kimi tends to be more the drive around a problem type of guy. Kimi will have the upper hand IMHO for 1-2 races with up to 0.5 between them. Michael will need seat time to get used to the 09 spec with KERS and slicks etc in an era of no testing. Testing is Michael's "meat and drink" so the results could even take longer but he would get the upper hand eventually in a one to one with Kimi.
Some people here seem to think the increments between drivers is measured 0.5 - 1.0 seconds per lap, the reality is any driver worthy of F1 (and I include guys like Bourdais, Piquet, Nakajima) are within about 0.5 of the perfect time for the car. Where the real difference in times comes is in the driving of development to new levels and this is what Michael will do for himself with track time and ultimately for Ferrari.
So my answer to the question is two things;
(a) overcoming the initial speed advantage of Kimi who knows the car to equalling or bettering his times by the time he moves aside, and
(b) getting both Ferraris competitive by the end of the season (podium/win-challenging positions).
There are plenty of side issues like how motivated is Michael to racing as opposed to playing the team builder? This has to be good for F1.
Who were they going to drop if Alonso is coming to Ferrari now becomes apparent. If Michael starts to show up Kimi within say 3 races then Kimi is gone. Michael will stand in for Massa I believe until at least the last race of 2009 and drive development for next year. he will also be available in a floating role or whatever is required pending an outcome on Felipe. Felipe may never recapture winning form, lets hope for the best for him though. Ferrari will have better comparisons made and more options - Kimi could come out the loser but it will still depend on Felipe's recovery being 100% or not.
Michael is more a driver who moulds the team/car to himself, Kimi tends to be more the drive around a problem type of guy. Kimi will have the upper hand IMHO for 1-2 races with up to 0.5 between them. Michael will need seat time to get used to the 09 spec with KERS and slicks etc in an era of no testing. Testing is Michael's "meat and drink" so the results could even take longer but he would get the upper hand eventually in a one to one with Kimi.
Some people here seem to think the increments between drivers is measured 0.5 - 1.0 seconds per lap, the reality is any driver worthy of F1 (and I include guys like Bourdais, Piquet, Nakajima) are within about 0.5 of the perfect time for the car. Where the real difference in times comes is in the driving of development to new levels and this is what Michael will do for himself with track time and ultimately for Ferrari.
So my answer to the question is two things;
(a) overcoming the initial speed advantage of Kimi who knows the car to equalling or bettering his times by the time he moves aside, and
(b) getting both Ferraris competitive by the end of the season (podium/win-challenging positions).
There are plenty of side issues like how motivated is Michael to racing as opposed to playing the team builder? This has to be good for F1.
#43
engel
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:42
Umm Luca (OK FOTA if you wanna be technical) is still pushing for a 3rd car ;)
From today's FOTA press release re: BMW leaving:
"It is worth to mention that a professional work has already begun within FOTA, aimed at increasing the involvement of the fans and at improving the F1 show. Among those initiatives, one that could be interesting is the introduction of a third car on the grid."
http://www.teamsasso...cretary-general
From today's FOTA press release re: BMW leaving:
"It is worth to mention that a professional work has already begun within FOTA, aimed at increasing the involvement of the fans and at improving the F1 show. Among those initiatives, one that could be interesting is the introduction of a third car on the grid."
http://www.teamsasso...cretary-general
#44
RSNS
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:47
A win in the wet would be wonderful... and bring back memories.
#45
Niro
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Posted 29 July 2009 - 23:58
Forget Kimi now, he's just Master's breakfast. Ferrari is now...what...maybe 0,5 seconds behind the best cars? That's not much, actually. I seriously expect him to be fighting for poles and victories.
#46
Dmitriy_Guller
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Posted 30 July 2009 - 00:02
I expect Schumacher to shock us all. The man was still at his peak when he retired, and he's an alpha male among alpha males. If I were Kimi, I would be very worried.
#47
Muz Bee
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Posted 30 July 2009 - 00:07
Usual credibility of F1 personnel lying in the mud. Willi Weber flatly rejected Michael would replace Felipe only yesterday. Shut your gob you lying little s$#$! A simple "no comment" is all we will ever believe from your mouth.
Hats off to MS for giving us the chance to see him against the new generation. He will slot into the top 8 on my grid from the first race on corrected time. Don't prove me wrong Michael.
Hats off to MS for giving us the chance to see him against the new generation. He will slot into the top 8 on my grid from the first race on corrected time. Don't prove me wrong Michael.
#48
nja
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Posted 30 July 2009 - 00:13
7 races? - 70 points, thank you.
Seriously - as long as he is competitive with Kimi, that would be considered successful.
Deep down, I am hoping for a win. That would take the cake.
#49
Niro
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Posted 30 July 2009 - 00:14
If I were Kimi, I would be very worried.
Look, Kimi's got nothing to worry about. It's not about him anymore. He knows that the Master is getting all the attention from the team from now on - just like he should as a 7 times World Champion. No, all eyes will be on Schumi and how he does against the TOP cars. Well, you might want to check Kimi's relative speed to them as well. If that's the same as before and Schumi is actually fighting for victories...well, you know who's da Man. Go Master, go! I know you will crush the field!
#50
Garagiste
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Posted 30 July 2009 - 00:24
A podium.
Oh, and a moment of huge controversy!
Oh, and a moment of huge controversy!
