Lancia did it...
#1
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:02
I know it must have happened in the very first race too, but that one doesn't count.
In case it has escaped anyone's notice Giancarlo Fisichella has achieved that with a Force India car this afternoon at Spa.
Advertisement
#2
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:08
If I bought the BMW team in the off season with my spare change, renamed it Force Denmark and I had Quick Nick plant his car on pole in the first race next year, it would be comparable. But both you and I know that it really isn't so.
Jordan---> Midland ---> Spyker ---> Force India (sorry if I forgot an incarnations along the way)
#3
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:11
Surely the car is new, this year, built by the Force India work force. How much of a Jordan/Spyker etc would that be, then?
Vijay Mallya bought the franchise. Not the same as buying a car and running it, IMHO.
Edited by Barry Boor, 29 August 2009 - 17:12.
#4
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:12
...and Mercedes-Benz did too. But if we consider the World Championship races since 1950, how many other cars have taken a pole position BEFORE they scored any points?
I know it must have happened in the very first race too, but that one doesn't count.
In case it has escaped anyone's notice Giancarlo Fisichella has achieved that with a Force India car this afternoon at Spa.
BrawnGP?
#5
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:15
#6
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:17
And March of course.BrawnGP?
#7
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:19
Are we saying that the Force India IS a Jordan?
Surely the car is new, this year, built by the Force India work force. How much of a Jordan/Spyker etc would that be, then?
Vijay Mallya bought the franchise. Not the same as buying a car and running it, IMHO.
Except the rear end is bought whole sale from McLaren.
#8
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:21
Edited by Tim Murray, 29 August 2009 - 17:32.
#9
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:28
PAR
#10
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:35
VetoAnd March of course.
Team March scored theire first points at Jarama 1970 (Andretti 3rd) and JYS put its March on pole and that's a team Tyrell Car. Team Tyrell had scored already a 3 in South Africa in 1970.
JYS set fastest time with his Team Tyrell at the US GP in the same year, first point scoring with Team Tyrell was in 1971.
Edited by Hugo Boecker, 29 August 2009 - 17:35.
#11
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:38
I just couldn't be bothered to look it all up.
I knew you fine fellows would oblige with other instances.
#12
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:52
Can I just add, I wasn't trying to say that the three examples I mentioned were the only ones.
I just couldn't be bothered to look it all up.
I knew you fine fellows would oblige with other instances.
We knew that all along Barry.... See you tomorrow?
#13
Posted 29 August 2009 - 17:57
Sorry Hugo, but I don't agree. Barry's original question referred to car, not team, so as I see it, it's irrelevant that the March car which took pole in South Africa was run by the Tyrrell team.Veto
Team March scored theire first points at Jarama 1970 (Andretti 3rd) and JYS put its March on pole and that's a team Tyrell Car. Team Tyrell had scored already a 3 in South Africa in 1970.
JYS set fastest time with his Team Tyrell at the US GP in the same year, first point scoring with Team Tyrell was in 1971.
And, as Phil said, the first pole for a Tyrrell car was Canada 1970, not US.
#14
Posted 29 August 2009 - 23:33
Based on the chassis maker we have:
1956 Watson (Pat Flaherty) which won the race
1959 Lesovsky (Johnny Thomson) which finished 3rd
1960 Ewing (Eddie Sachs) and not in the points
Based on car name, we have:
1952 Cummins Diesel Special (Fred Agabashian) which never scored a point
1957 Sumar Special (Pat O'Connor) which never scored a point
1959 Racing Associates Special (Johnny Thomson) which finished 3rd
I think that's correct - but I may have missed an earlier points score at some stage as I'm working from books (Lang and Higham)
#15
Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:08
I thought about that when he got pole...Jordan---> Midland ---> Spyker ---> Force India
#16
Posted 30 August 2009 - 07:38
Bjørn
#17
Posted 30 August 2009 - 09:30
It's Teo Fabi in Toleman in 1985 at the Germany Grand Prix
http://forix.autospo...?l=0&r=1985&c=3
and maybe Bruno Giacomelli in Alfa Romeo in 1980 at the USA Grand Prix.
http://forix.autospo...?l=0&r=1980&c=3
It is rare that a car/team is coming from behind to score a pole. Let's hope the best for Fisichella today.
Bjørn
#18
Posted 30 August 2009 - 10:03
#19
Posted 30 August 2009 - 10:17
#21
Posted 30 August 2009 - 15:29
Not as Wolf. They won on their debut in Argentina 1977 but Hunt (McLaren) was on pole. And as Wolf-Williams they were nowhere near the front.I think Wolf took a pole before they won a race
#22
Posted 30 August 2009 - 20:11
#23
Posted 30 August 2009 - 21:42
#24
Posted 31 August 2009 - 12:27
It's Teo Fabi in Toleman in 1985 at the Germany Grand Prix
http://forix.autospo...?l=0&r=1985&c=3
Toleman scored points before Germany '85, but Teo really did fly on that occasion!
I was there to witness it. He really made great use of the Pirelli qualifyers, no doubt helped by the boost knob! IRRC he did very few laps but, boy where they impressive.
#25
Posted 31 August 2009 - 13:03
Are we saying that the Force India IS a Jordan?
In fact the VJM02 is in reality the EJ18 with some updates from Valencia :-)
#26
Posted 31 August 2009 - 13:05
In case it has escaped anyone's notice Giancarlo Fisichella has achieved that with a Force India car this afternoon at Spa.
I guess the fact that Fizzi remained within two seconds with Kimi the whole race also is a rare feat in the past 59 years of the WDC F1