Meadowdale mayhem, 1962

I too had heard that the short bridge in the photos was a vehicle bridge-it appears to be wide enough for a car to cross. There doesn't appear to be any sort of steps leading up to it on either side, it's directly on the embankments. It's on the far side of the track, just before the steep uphill climb to whatever turn leads towards the short double straight leading to Doane's. (Unless I'm misinterpreting Zooom's description). Anyway that short bridge is definitely wider than the old one that stood over the main straight.

I was out that way a week or two ago-are they going to rip up the Little Monza turn as well? I didn't get the opportunity to hike all the way down there.

-William

Edited by SaturnVUEguy, 16 October 2009 - 15:19.

My memory is that the bridges were just spectator bridges. There were tunnels under the track for vehicular traffic.

Of course, that was over 45 years ago and I could well be wrong. Zooom, Ron, what do you think?

Tom

Edited by Aero426, 15 October 2009 - 20:51.

That remaining iron bridge was a car bridge installed during the 1967-68 rehab job. You took that bridge from the main entrance off 31 into the center of the track, and then you had access to the new metal tunnel under the main straight. The Grand Prix Press newspaper articles talk about those improvements.

Edited by RA Historian, 15 October 2009 - 21:34.

A HA ! That clears matters up quite a bit, and makes all of us right in our posts above. The last time I was there was the 1964 USRRC event (entered the Army shortly thereafter and Meadowdale was gone when I came home) (but I still made all Road America events!!) and I thought that the overpasses were strictly pedestrian. Your saying that the wide vehicle bridge went in a couple years after 1964 tells me that my memory was right.

Tom

I want the fullsize version of that picture

Edited by Aero426, 17 October 2009 - 15:12.

Porsche ace Harold Zimdars and his lovely bride Valerie at Meadowdale circa 1962.

Edited by SaturnVUEguy, 17 October 2009 - 16:02.

Aero, any specifics on what model that Porsche is? Any chance you know where that is on the track? I'm kinda guessing toward the end of the straightaway, but was there a ped bridge down there? Where exactly was the one that was removed a few years ago?

Edited by RA Historian, 17 October 2009 - 21:15.

SaturnVueguy: I was just out there this afternoon, and saw the concrete blocks you show. It appears that they were dropped there to keep people from driving up from the entrance (where the heck is that anyway? I looked for it but couldn't find it). I have a feeling that they were probably repurposed from some other project. They also don't appear to be attached to anything, so I imagine that the one lying on it's side either fell over due to erosion or people screwing around. I also think that the hill leading down from the concrete blockade was shallower at one time-now it leads right down into someone's yard.

I did notice one thing today. Due to the brush that's been cleared away from the edges of the path, you can see loads more old armco posts. I climbed down into the washout today and the only thing that told me on my way back out that I was on the right track was following those!

-William

Edited by SaturnVUEguy, 18 October 2009 - 07:08.

Harold Zimdars won FP in the July, 1961, SCCA National event. Contemporary reports seemed to call the standard 356 a 'Normal', and I did see that reference to Porsches in this class. A Porsche expert should be able to tell us exactly what it was; my guess is a 1600cc pushrod engine, not in "Super" trim.

The photo appears to show Harold and Valerie Zimdars on their victory lap at that part of the track that comes up the hill from the esses after the "Little Monza". In other words, still the first part of the track on the return after the long main straight. Up the hill just before the hard left turn at the point where the track almost meets the main straight, sometimes known as "Len's Hairpin", although really a long left and not a hairpin. Probably a mile and a half roughly after the S/F line, but well beyond the straight. Pedestrian cross over bridge is visible. This must be the first one, as one follows the track around from the start. The second pedestrian overpass is on the exit from this long left turn. Wish I knew what the corner numbers were, but I hope that you can figure out the portion of the track which I am describing.

Tom

As for that Porsche, could it be this: http://wsrp.ic.cz/na...ls1961.html#8/1 ?

And for what section of the track he is on...I thought that area of the track you are talking about was uphill, when in the picture it clearly shows him going downhill. Perhaps coming down from Len's Hairpin toward The Serpentine?

Edited by Aero426, 17 October 2009 - 22:13.

William,

On the picture at http://meadowdalerac...om/hikemap.html you can see where it is. The concrete wall and slabs I took pictures of are real close to the water tower (just above the tower in the picture, just to the west) in the lower left corner. Above the O in the words "Original main gate" you can see an access road leading up toward the track. If you were to follow that road west (down on that picture) a few hundred feet, you will get to a big wide open grassy area, which was the original parking lot. Beyond that there is a fence which is still there. On the other side of that fence is a big circular driveway, which connects to the old main gate.

And actually, in that same picture, if you follow down from the d in "Carl's Bend" you can see a darker/denser patch of trees between the d and the access road. This is what I figured out was the path of the access road leading to that bridge in my previous posts.

Ah, I see where I missed the entrance. I just didn't go far enough. Funnily, I've seen that little driveway and thought "I wonder if that's an old entrance", convinced it wasn't!

Google Earth actually seems to show the concrete barriers-I thought they were further from the water tower than that. I've not done a whole lot of "off track" hiking at Meadowdale, I seem to be getting my directions crossed up. I came off the track at a path just north of the tower (it's quite clear on Google Earth), which I'd walked once a couple of years ago, skirted around the edge of the water tower, then investigated the concrete barriers, looking hopefully for old non-graffiti paint. I wandered about till I found another footpath that took me back to the track proper, which dropped me right in front of the vehicle bridge. I still think that the barriers were dropped there to keep people from entering the property with vehicles.

How long has that water tower been there?

-William

I believe the photo is at the very top of the uphill climb just before the left hand Len's Hairpin. Behind the bridge it is running downhill at a pretty good angle.

As for that Porsche, could it be this: http://wsrp.ic.cz/na...ls1961.html#8/1 ?

And for the main gate, I haven't driven Rt 31 in that area in a while now. One thing I really want to do though is park my car at the main gate and take a picture of it, as if a Saturn VUE would be found racing on a track like that!

Edited by WDH74, 18 October 2009 - 22:48.

So was that Meister Brau bridge right before the first cutoff that leads to the main straight? The guardrail in the background of the 'Vettes is the main straight, no? What was it made of?



I'll shoot my Miata in front of it for you!

The infield side of the vehicle bridge looks quite overgrown-Google Earth doesn't even really show much of a path on that side. I know the brush was too thick to climb up that side.

-William

Edited by SaturnVUEguy, 19 October 2009 - 02:06.

Just off to the right in this picture, you can see where the cut off from the main straight joins the course again.


Now, to see what the cut off really looked like we have this picture:


In the background is the main straight and to the left, out of the picture this cut off joins the rest of the circuit.

ZOOOM

Edited by Aero426, 20 October 2009 - 02:32.

Who's in the #26 Ford?

If you would have told me 50 years ago, that the pictures I took with my little camera would be of interest to ANYONE.... I would have thought you were nuts...

ZOOOM

read line one of the post immediately above yours.....

http://img96.imagesh...eadowdale72.jpg

Yet another good shot, Ron. That is just about the spot where the Harold Zimdars Porsche was pictured in our discussion of a few days ago on this site.

As we have said several times before, Meadowdale was a great track at which to shoot photos. One could get indecently close to the action and get great shots even without a telephoto lens. Dangerous, of course, but back then we did not think about it! I was at 5 events in the 1961-64 time frame, and like you, wish that I had shot a lot more film. But I was just in school at the time, and film and developing were expensive!

Tom

There is a story somewhere about Meadowdale claiming one of the most famous Lotus Elevens ever built, destroyed in a racing accident in July 1961 by owner Jim Kaser. A photo of the remains would be wonderful but does anyone even remember this happening ?

Edited by David Beard, 21 November 2009 - 15:37.

I don't know of the Lotus Eleven, but I have this photo from Jim Kaser of him racing a Lotus 16 at Meadowdale a bit earlier in 1961, and a piece from an SCCA journal describing the event...

The Wall is long gone-it was taken down while the track was still active. Google Earth shows a very clear outline of the course, but a good chunk of it is dirt (Doane's if I'm not mistaken, its been a good few years since I hiked it), plus a creek washed out a part of the main straightaway as well as part of the pavement near the Pure Oil Silo. A section near the south end of the track is also gone, having been covered with fill years ago. There are no structures left, save for the silo (which was repainted to it's Meadowdale livery a couple of years ago), and a vehicle bridge at the south end of the track. The skeleton of a pedestrian bridge stood over the main straight until a couple of years ago, when it was (sensibly, I suppose) taken down.

Oh, if you are down around the starting line/pit area you can still see the markings painted on the pavement. That's kinda cool.

-William

In post #30 is a picture of the Meister Brau pit tractor. I have included a photo of Harry Heuer ( I believe) driving my brothers and sister around at meadowdale back in the day on that tractor. Enjoy, John Scott.

Edited by HistoricMustang, 21 November 2009 - 14:29.

David: I am not sure if this is the same car. I think this was taken at Wilmot when the Jr.'s were just getting started. Maybe someone can identify the car. If not Wilmot it may be at Road America. I notice Jim has a white helmet in your photo so this could be someone else. Maybe a previous owner. Regards, Ron N.
http://img256.images...vabook72057.jpg

Ron, I'm absoulutely sure it's the same car in my photo and your photo. What I am not sure about is whether my photo was actually taken at Meadowdale. When Jim Kaser sent me the shot he said the car was tested at Wilmot Hills before he did the one race at Meadowdale so it could be there. Anyone recognise the backdrop?. Great shot by the way, not seen before. One of yours? Any other angles?

I'm not sure Wilmot had trees and shrubs that close to the track.... Meadowdale did.

ZOOOM

So you think car 170 is at Wilmot?

Edited by S A Dunbar, 26 November 2009 - 19:02.

yes... one and the same...

Curt has been a worldwide touring motorcycle enthusiast for many years now. He's traveled to the tip of South America - and a year or so ago did an Isle of Man motorcycle tour with Wayne Coursey...