1960 Grand Prix Ferraris
Started by
Roger Clark
, Sep 25 2009 08:08
9 replies to this topic
#1
Roger Clark
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Posted 25 September 2009 - 08:08
Looking at the two 1960 Ferraris with the rear bodywork removed, I was struck by how unusual they looked - all the fuel being carried in pannier tanks. Were they like this in 1960 or was there then a rear tank? Contemporary sources and more recent books are not clear.
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#2
Tim Murray
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Posted 25 September 2009 - 09:14
Using the forearm of the man in the picture as a rough ruler (1 cubit = 18 inches) I reckon each of those pannier tanks measures around 6" x 18" X 30". This gives a total volume for both tanks of 3.75 cubic feet, which equates to around 23 (Imperial) gallons. GP race distances in 1960 could be over 300 miles, which would require a fuel consumption of over 13 mpg. Could the Ferrari really have achieved this consumption? I feel they must have needed extra tankage.
#3
Mal9444
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Posted 25 September 2009 - 09:35
Looking at the two 1960 Ferraris with the rear bodywork removed, I was struck by how unusual they looked - all the fuel being carried in pannier tanks. Were they like this in 1960 or was there then a rear tank? Contemporary sources and more recent books are not clear.
I asked this very question of one of the support team with the car at Goodwood last year, and was told that the fuel was always in the pannier tanks but that in later cars there was an oil tank in the tail.
Mind you, when it comes to mechanical details I am a long way behind virtually everyone on this forum - which is how, of course, I came to be asking the question in the first place.
Standing by to be shot down...
#4
longhorn
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Posted 25 September 2009 - 09:47
Ferrari Formula One Cars 1948 - 1976 by Jonathan Thompson says that the 1960 cars also had a smaller tank in the tail to provide a total 150 litre capacity but there are no pictures. Presumably the change of rear suspension from de dion to i.r.s. provided more space in the tail.
#5
Gary Davies
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Posted 25 September 2009 - 13:11
Those with a copy of Cimarosti will find a cutaway drawing of the 246 on page 199 which shows the smaller tank in the tail to which longhorn refers.
#6
Roger Clark
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Posted 25 September 2009 - 14:01
Doug Nye's History of the Grand Prix Car 1945-65 has a photograph of the cars being prepared at Reims with the tanks visible. It's interesting that both the Goodwood cars, and contemporary pictures, show no sign of a filler in the tail, although the bodywork has an indentation that suggests that provision was made. The 1958 and 59 cars had a large quick release filler behind the driver's head.
It's also interesting that Ferrari tried, and abandoned, side tanks with the 553/555 and got rid of them on the Lancias as soon as he could, but returned to them in 1960. Was this a reflection of improved suspension design and tyre technology that allowed a more responsive car?
It's also interesting that Ferrari tried, and abandoned, side tanks with the 553/555 and got rid of them on the Lancias as soon as he could, but returned to them in 1960. Was this a reflection of improved suspension design and tyre technology that allowed a more responsive car?
#7
Macca
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Posted 25 September 2009 - 19:22
Doug Nye wrote an article on the Dino F1 Ferraris for 'Historic Race & Rally' issue 1, featuring the the car then owned by Neil Corner, and TNFer Tony Matthews' artwork of it:
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=3313286
The 1960 cars had coil-sprung independent rear suspension, which may be why centralised mass distribution became desirable.
The thing I noticed about the car driven by Richard Attwood is that a roll-hoop ("scaffolding") has been fitted, and the rear bodywork raised into an inaccurate shape to conceal it - it looks a little like a 1958 car but more like a Formula Junior.....
Paul M
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=3313286
The 1960 cars had coil-sprung independent rear suspension, which may be why centralised mass distribution became desirable.
The thing I noticed about the car driven by Richard Attwood is that a roll-hoop ("scaffolding") has been fitted, and the rear bodywork raised into an inaccurate shape to conceal it - it looks a little like a 1958 car but more like a Formula Junior.....
Paul M
Edited by Macca, 25 September 2009 - 19:24.
#8
bradbury west
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Posted 26 September 2009 - 13:22
Looking through all the books and magazine stuff here, I cannot add much, but in Ferrari F1 1948-1963 Piero Casucci identifies
"in 1960 independent rear suspension was officially adopted and an improvement was sought for the weight distribution of the 246 by going back to side tanks, leaving the one in the tail for fuel reserve and oil. For the same reason, the engine was moved back 25cm; moreover, it was offset in the opposite direction, that is, it was angled from left to right, passing to the right of the driving seat. thre gear lever was moved to the left"
Roger Lund
"in 1960 independent rear suspension was officially adopted and an improvement was sought for the weight distribution of the 246 by going back to side tanks, leaving the one in the tail for fuel reserve and oil. For the same reason, the engine was moved back 25cm; moreover, it was offset in the opposite direction, that is, it was angled from left to right, passing to the right of the driving seat. thre gear lever was moved to the left"
Roger Lund
#9
RStock
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Posted 26 September 2009 - 17:20
It's also interesting that Ferrari tried, and abandoned, side tanks with the 553/555 and got rid of them on the Lancias as soon as he could, but returned to them in 1960. Was this a reflection of improved suspension design and tyre technology that allowed a more responsive car?
I'm not much on the technical side , but I seem to remember seeing a photo in Doug Nye's "Dino - The Little Ferrari" of the Dino F2 , 1957 version I believe , which had a cockpit "side" fuel tank . Left side only if I remember correctly .
#10
asapiro
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Posted 27 September 2009 - 20:24
these are great photos of a car that I haven't had a chance to see on this side of the Atlantic
only one or two surviving ? great car raced by some great drivers ....
Did you take any other shots of the car whilst undressed?
Could you post them also?
thanks
Looking at the two 1960 Ferraris with the rear bodywork removed, I was struck by how unusual they looked - all the fuel being carried in pannier tanks. Were they like this in 1960 or was there then a rear tank? Contemporary sources and more recent books are not clear.
