Favourite circuits you raced on

I have always had the opinion regarding the TT being that if you want or need to go, get on with it. I could'nt get on with it and TBH I was a bit of an embarrasment. But if you elect not to go, there is no need to make a comment.

So if you elect not to go (As Wayne did) he cannot voice his opinion?

Edited by lukebaby, 06 July 2010 - 09:14.

But the rider toll continues to grow and, let's be realistic, one has to question when the final flag will fall.

Er, why would that be ? Should we count up all those injured and killed when competing at sport/activities and ban those with the highest mortality rates? If we did there would probably be more than a few disgruntled climbers, parachutists, rugby players, cricketers, etc, etc, around the place.

Er, why would that be ? Should we count up all those injured and killed when competing at sport/activities and ban those with the highest mortality rates? If we did there would probably be more than a few disgruntled climbers, parachutists, rugby players, cricketers, etc, etc, around the place.

Totally irrelevant Russel

How dare I have a different opinion! What exactly are MY ilk?

I referred to you as Mr Burrows as it is your username, you can call me Hass or Mr Hass or the Hoff, and try to be polite as others have been banned for less rudeness.

Edited by Hasselhoff, 06 July 2010 - 09:22.

So if you elect not to go (As Wayne did) he cannot voice his opinion?

The obvious distinction is that if you or I make pronouncements on it, who gives a flying f..... He's using his position to support an intellectually incoherent, nanny state line, that if not resisted could ultimately see an end to all 'dangerous' sport/activities.

Totally irrelevant Russel

How, why, where, what?

How dare I have a different opinion! What exactly are MY ilk?

I referred to you as Mr Burrows as it is your username, you can call me Hass or Mr Hass or the Hoff, and try to be polite as others have been banned for less rudeness.

Dear Mr Hasselhoff

I want you to have a different opinion to me but I also want you to defend it!

Word History : When one uses ilk, as in the phrase men of his ilk, one is using a word with an ancient pedigree even though the sense of ilk, "kind or sort," is actually quite recent, having been first recorded at the end of the 18th century. This sense grew out of an older use of ilk in the phrase of that ilk, meaning "of the same place, territorial designation, or name." This phrase was used chiefly in names of landed families, Guthrie of that ilk meaning "Guthrie of Guthrie." "Same" is the fundamental meaning of the word. The ancestors of ilk, Old English ilca and Middle English ilke, were common words, usually appearing with such words as the or that, but the word hardly survived the Middle Ages in those uses.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 06 July 2010 - 09:49.

Your ability to cut and paste from dictionary.com is impressive, however, I was not after the definition of the word rather who are the other people of my kind/ilk that you refer to? Using that word would imply that you know me or about me, yet I don't recall ever meeting you.

For what it's worth I don't believe talking about other dangerous endeavours has any relevance to this discussion and therefore is irrelevant.

I am not obliged to defend my opinion. I have my opinion you have yours and Wayne has his and guess what? We are all right according to us.

Edited by Hasselhoff, 06 July 2010 - 10:18.

Your ability to cut and paste from dictionary.com is impressive, however, I was not after the definition of the word rather who are the other people of my kind/ilk that you refer to? Using that word would imply that you know me or about me, yet I don't recall ever meeting you.

For what it's worth I don't believe talking about other dangerous endeavours has any relevance to this discussion and therefore is irrelevant.;)

I am not obliged to defend my opinion. I have my opinion you have yours and Wayne has his and guess what? We are all right according to us.

Yeah, I too feel previous encounters have been restricted to those in Cyber space. I sense I would recall if it were different.

Ah, you want to make incoherent assertions but object to being asked to support said comment - fair enough, I don't want to stress you or anything.

So if you elect not to go (As Wayne did) he cannot voice his opinion?

I get your point. I've always kept away from the IOM subject as it invokes a fair bit of passion. Wayne has every right to say what he wants but I expect it won't change much and opens a decent bloke ( Wayne) up to criticism. Thats me done

What you call "anti-bike" others may call "pro-safety"..................Joey never crashed there because he learned the circuit (which you can)...you can't be lucky for more than 10,000 race miles


I'm sneaking off now the handbags are out...

It's not very 'Crocodile Dundee' is it? (He likes the reference)

http://www.facebook....T?ref=ts&v=wall looks like there's nearly 60,000 who disagree on this page


David

Edited by Coupe Kawasaki, 06 July 2010 - 13:37.

This is what i like,....the passion is coming back into the forum!

Who's this talking back in the late 70's ??








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Who's this talking back in the late 70's ??








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Whinging Pom, Lutonboy?

This is what i like,....the passion is coming back into the forum!

Go on Nigel, gives us your take on it.....

Edited by Russell Burrows, 06 July 2010 - 19:03.

Whinging Pom, Lutonboy?

That's a tad unfair , Russ , no it's not Mr Read

Mick Grant.

Mick Grant.

Hi , Glenn yes , it's Grunty , in his weekly column in MCW , well done !! team mate of Wayne's , who didn't mind the roads ,

That's a tad unfair , Russ , no it's not Mr Read

Yeah probably, although he did whine about the Island but then kept returning when they kept upping the start money.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 06 July 2010 - 20:24.

Yeah probably, although he did whine about the Island but then kept returning when they kept upping the start money.

Can't blame him , though , it's the only job he's ever had IIRC

im sure that joey crashed at the tt, so done a bit of digging and yes he did. 86 junior tt at sulby bridge.
it seems to me that its growing into more of a glorified club race mixed in with the 27th round of bsb, as i said before its more tradition to keep it going rather than it being any use to anyones career prospects.
reality check is its like everything else now, you went to watch to see the factory specials or the gp bikes with the world stars onboard, now you can go too your showroom and see the senior tt winning bike for sale, they used to have a class for that -- production .
name me the last successful british rider at world level who went there and think of the era.
fans love it cause its different and enthusiasts come in all different ranges of opinions

:
name me the last successful british rider at world level who went there and think of the era.

Carl Fogarty

Who's this talking back in the late 70's ??








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Thankfully, they did move it. http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Go on Nigel, gives us your take on it.....

Well my opinion, for what little it is worth is the following....
Riders go there knowing the dangers, as has been said previous. The draw of the big bucks, is only relevant to the top 10 riders that are subject to the increased start/prize money.
The majority of the riders that ride there are not professional, but ride mainly for fun, and are drawn to the buzz and thrill of the place. This being similar to base jumpers, extreme skiers, free climbers etc., who often risk or lose there life for little or no monitry gain, but have huge adrenalin highs from doing what they love.

I think that banning racing there is an insult to the intelligence of the individual, who knows the risks involved.
I do however think that Superbikes are just too powerful these days, and a restriction of engine size maybe something that could be looked at.

I never raced there myself, as my own thoughts at the time was that the risks were too high, and I tended to be a bit of a crasher.
I mechanicced for Gavin Lee, a good mate of mine, over there in 1998, and was in awe of the place, its atmosphere, and the awesome parts of the track. I was also amazed at how dire other parts of the track were, but as Gavin said at the time, the throttle goes both ways!, the irony of that was that he was killed the following year at the southern 100, when he got caught up in another rider's crash.

I have lost some real good mate's to the island, and had recently got to know Paul Dobbs, as most of you know was sadly killed this year. Paul had a real passion fro the place, and had even named one of his children after a section of the circuit. Where the tradegy lies is with what you leave behind, we know the risks.

As for Digger's comment, good on him, if that is what he genuinly believes, then he is entitled to say so. One person's opinion will not change anything.

I'm not saying my opinion is right either, its just how i perceive it.




Nigel
(I'll await the barrage of reply!)

No barrage from me , Nige , I agree with all you've said , especially the large engine bit . I thought that after IIRC the 1988/9 Production TT when we lost 2-3 top riders , Steve Henshaw , Phil Mellor amongst them , that those large ( 1200 cc ) Production bikes weren't right for the place .
I've been there 1967 and 1968 as a spectator , and 1982/3 as a helper for Tony Head , and as you say , it's the atmosphere , it's contagious , mind you , so is Daytona , Assen , Silverstone etc , etc ......................................................

As for Digger's comment, good on him, if that is what he genuinly believes, then he is entitled to say so. One person's opinion will not change anything.

For me it's the issue of someone arguing that others should be prevented from doing something because they consider it too dangerous. I wonder what the justification is for such a position? It can only be that they see their right to save you from yourself as trumping your right to do as you will ? Personally, I object to someone attempting to take away my responsibility for myself. If the banners get their way on the Island, what's the justification for continuing a whole range of dangerous sports/activities ? Certainly, the Manx, the Southern 100 and the all the Irish races would also have to go. Wayne must know his comments are supportive of the growing world wide environmental/'health and safety' lobby, some of whom already argue for a complete ban on all motorsport . Lest anyone think this improbable: the Swiss did just this in 1955.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 07 July 2010 - 15:36.

I rode there in 79 and was paid heaps (in those days) to start. I would not have considered riding had I not been. I managed the mandatory 6 laps practice and at the end of it all I probably remembered maybe 25% of where I was going (maybe not that much even)
Had a great time and some fond memories but its just not for me. Good on Wayne for ruffling a few feathers.....but he knew that he would on this subject. All makes for good reading

Raced there myself 1964 to 1969 and I considered in those days as the TT being the ultimate challenge.Most of us knew we were never going to win it or achieve a speed likely to gain a replica but the challenge was to finish a 225 mile race.Only finished once and was then disqualified as I rode 3 laps with no numbers on the bike and did not obey the stewards instructions when refuelling regarding no numbers.
Had a very serious accident at th end of the mountain mile in 1964 which left me in Ramsey Cottage hospital for a while but this did not deter me from my challenge which was to finish a TT race which I consider is the pinnacle of a road racing hobby.
Even now in conversation with people if motor cycle racing is mentioned often the first question asked is 'Did you ever race at the Isle of Man TT'
I understand how works contracted riders were committed to race there even if there instinct said No Way but for all others I see it as a personnel choice and knew in my own case when making that choice the risks involved but there is no doubt the TT is still the ultimate challenge for rider and machine.

Personally, I object to someone attempting to take away my responsibility for myself

Gardner is doing nothing of the sort. I don't see him lobbying or having any petitions signed, he is merely voicing his opinion.

But if you elect not to go, there is no need to make a comment

.....and then only a couple of hours later.....

Wayne has every right to say what he wants

So which is it Stu?

.....and then only a couple of hours later.....



So which is it Stu?

Both obviously. I don't think there is a need to comment on something that you chose not to be involved with but you have every right to!! Anyway this is not about pushing my comments about.
I still see WG on occasions and in fact spent a long while with him at a charity ball earlier in the year and I guarantee he would have a good old laugh reading this.

One of the previous comments was about the question asked "have you ridden in the IOM". That still is asked today even down here and it holds great status. When I was a kid in NZ my hero's( in NZ) like the Colemans would do a 6 week boat trip with the NZ team to compete. Amazingly with travel it was a 4 month round trip for a one race!! I guess thats why I still have high regard for all that have been successful there. But then again lets look at Pat Hennen who was "blackmailed"into going with the promise of a quality transporter to do the remaining GP's. The rest is history.

I guarantee he would have a good old laugh reading this.

He certainly is on crash.net....Certainly gets the emotions running rampant in some people

Gardner is doing nothing of the sort. I don't see him lobbying or having any petitions signed, he is merely voicing his opinion.

The fact that we are discussing the issue, along with thousands of others around the world, kinda tells us his 'opinion' carries more than some weight - ergo, how can this not encourage those wanting to see an end to the races? Perhaps then his 'opinions' need to be tested more than most ? We know he declined to ever race there, so it might be reasonable for us to conclude that his assessment of the dangers are about as valid as - well, someone who has never raced there ? Then we come to the all important philosophical point that you're unwilling/unable to address: if you or I want to ride in the TT, go skydiving, or climbing, or swing by our knackers from a chandelier, so long as no coercion is involved, who mandated anyone to demand that we not be allowed to do it?

Then of course, as alluded to by others, there's the more than a century of tradition, prestige and mystique connected with the Island, but I suspect you're not overly interested in this?

Anyway this is not about pushing my comments about.

True. Just having a bit of fun Stu.

Then of course, as alluded to by others, there's the more than a century of tradition, prestige and mystique connected with the Island, but I suspect you're not overly interested in this?

Of course I am interested in it but lets say someone does beat Joeys record I think it would be almost an insult as the quality and depth of competition there these days is not a patch on the TT of old.

Large sums of start of money (coercion???) are contributing to the death toll in my opinion. It's not that I am unwilling or unable to address your philosophical point, I just don't think you have one. If you wanted to skydive solo or rock climb etc you would have to do an approved safety course first to minimise the risk to yourself and others. Those sports are getting safer all the time, while the TT is not.

But I can't continue in this discussion Russell as I've just read my post and I am even boring myself. Are you near to London? I do get there fairly often so maybe we could discuss it further over a pint?

Edited by Hasselhoff, 08 July 2010 - 14:40.

True. Just having a bit of fun Stu.;)


Of course I am interested in it but lets say someone does beat Joeys record I think it would be almost an insult as the quality and depth of competition there these days is not a patch on the TT of old.

Large sums of start of money (coercion???) are contributing to the death toll in my opinion. It's not that I am unwilling or unable to address your philosophical point, I just don't think you have one. If you wanted to skydive solo or rock climb etc you would have to do an approved safety course first to minimise the risk to yourself and others. Those sports are getting safer all the time, while the TT is not.

But I can't continue in this discussion Russell as I've just read my post and I am even boring myself. Are you near to London? I do get there fairly often so maybe we could discuss it further over a pint?

You're worrying me now

Hi gents, although you have already exchanged your points back and forth....

http://www.iomtoday....call.6409730.jp

Hi gents, although you have already exchanged your points back and forth....

http://www.iomtoday....call.6409730.jp

Just another emotional outburst. The fact that a man of his age still races at the TT says enough for me Cannot be much between the ears

Just another emotional outburst. The fact that a man of his age still races at the TT says enough for me Cannot be much between the ears

Mate, you're confirming my suspicions about what's between your ears.

Getting back to what the original post was about, my fave was Mallory Park. A simple yet quite difficult track (prior to the bustop). Devil's Elbow scared the bejayzus out of me, and coming up to the hairpin I never knew if I was going to get slowed down enough.

go skydiving
Why jump out of an aeroplane when it is working just fine

or climbing
Why

or swing by our knackers from a chandelier
I would like to see that

Then of course, as alluded to by others, there's the more than a century of tradition
Same as religion:eek:

prestige
Prestige is for people with their head in the clouds

and mystique connected with the Island
230 odd deaths should rid of any mystique

but I suspect you're not overly interested in this?
Correct

Edited by lukebaby, 10 July 2010 - 04:55.

I have refrained from getting involved in this discussion, as I am able to see both sides of the argument, and know proponents of both points of view. The thing is, this is not news from Wayne Gardner's standpoint. In every biography of his that I've ever read, he's maintained the same point of view : in his opinion, racing in the Isle of Man is insane, and should be banned. He's been saying it since the early 1980s, and has never wavered in his stance. He's not spraycanning it on the Houses of Parliament, or streaking across the centre court at Wimbledon, so it's just the expression of an opinion : an opinion he's not alone in holding, or expressing. I've been lucky enough to meet and shoot the breeze with several current TT stars, and have met and chatted with several others back to the 1950s, so I've got a pretty rounded set of opinions from both sides, and yet I still can't come down firmly on one side or the other.
The fact that the TT, and for that matter, the Irish roadrace series, is still able to continue in these times of the Nanny Society, where everything we do is governed, regulated, scrutinised and frowned upon, is probably a blessing of sorts, a last glimpse through the window of freedom to do as we would, rather than what we are permitted to do. Many of us felt that the Centenary TT of 2007 would see the regulators say "Righto lads, you've had your 100 years of carnage, but the jig's up !"
Yet the TT continues. Without doubt, the financial shot in the arm it gives to the Manx Government and hospitality trade coffers will be irreplaceable, yet I feel in the end the TT will be shut down from within, from the ever-increasing tally of cashed-up tax exiles living on the Island who find it inconvenient that Audrey wants to take the BMW down to the shops, but the jolly roads are closed for TT practice, how beastly !
Just what the future holds is hard to say, but whether you love or hate it, you can't deny it gives you the biggest jaw-dropping thrill of the year when you see the footage each year from the Island of men at work, when you gape in awe at the slo-mos from the bottom of Barregarrow and Ballaugh. The NorthWest 200 isn't far behind when it comes to spectacle, yet each year we fear that it'll be the last. One day it will be, but we'll be able to look back and say, "Ah yes, but in the Old Days when they used to do battle on the Island..."

I have refrained from getting involved in this discussion, as I am able to see both sides of the argument, and know proponents of both points of view. The thing is, this is not news from Wayne Gardner's standpoint. In every biography of his that I've ever read, he's maintained the same point of view : in his opinion, racing in the Isle of Man is insane, and should be banned. He's been saying it since the early 1980s, and has never wavered in his stance. He's not spraycanning it on the Houses of Parliament, or streaking across the centre court at Wimbledon, so it's just the expression of an opinion : an opinion he's not alone in holding, or expressing. I've been lucky enough to meet and shoot the breeze with several current TT stars, and have met and chatted with several others back to the 1950s, so I've got a pretty rounded set of opinions from both sides, and yet I still can't come down firmly on one side or the other.
The fact that the TT, and for that matter, the Irish roadrace series, is still able to continue in these times of the Nanny Society, where everything we do is governed, regulated, scrutinised and frowned upon, is probably a blessing of sorts, a last glimpse through the window of freedom to do as we would, rather than what we are permitted to do. Many of us felt that the Centenary TT of 2007 would see the regulators say "Righto lads, you've had your 100 years of carnage, but the jig's up !"
Yet the TT continues. Without doubt, the financial shot in the arm it gives to the Manx Government and hospitality trade coffers will be irreplaceable, yet I feel in the end the TT will be shut down from within, from the ever-increasing tally of cashed-up tax exiles living on the Island who find it inconvenient that Audrey wants to take the BMW down to the shops, but the jolly roads are closed for TT practice, how beastly !
Just what the future holds is hard to say, but whether you love or hate it, you can't deny it gives you the biggest jaw-dropping thrill of the year when you see the footage each year from the Island of men at work, when you gape in awe at the slo-mos from the bottom of Barregarrow and Ballaugh. The NorthWest 200 isn't far behind when it comes to spectacle, yet each year we fear that it'll be the last. One day it will be, but we'll be able to look back and say, "Ah yes, but in the Old Days when they used to do battle on the Island..."

Great post GD

A favourite circuit? Is it one that you went particularly well at? One that you had the most success at?

I weighed this up and for me it has to be Pembrey. Not because I was brilliant there or that I won a load of races there (I think my best ever finish was a 3rd). It's because in 94, 95 and 96 when I was racing with the CRMC I had 3 of the most enjoyable weekends I've spent competing there. I always liked the circuit, it's got quite a good layout and for I personally found it quite testing. It was the overall experience of those weekends that I liked, from pitching up on a Friday evening to leaving on Sunday afternoon that I really enjoyed. I spent whole weekends at plenty of other circuits but Pembrey is the one I liked the most. Whether that would be the case now I don't know as Barber is pushing it close.

Snetterton will always be up there as well, I had my first race there and my last in the UK, Lydden was OK ( my first win there) and I always preferred the long circuit at Brands to the short.

Did anyone like the wrong-way-round Brands of the seventies?

Did anyone like the wrong-way-round Brands of the seventies?

I did....and then I woke up in Queen Mary's (or was it St. Mary's?)

Mmmm......things we tried to remember way back when - this weekend turn left at paddock.

Mmmm......things we tried to remember way back when - this weekend turn left at paddock.

Hi, My favorite circuit has to be the full Cadwell.Never had much success there but I always came away feeling good.Another is the Teterow Bergring, a proper mountain grass track in the old East Germany.Just like Cadwell but on smooth grass,always a real buzz to screw it all on round there.You could fly off the jumps like Eddie Kidd! On the previous subject of the T.T,opinions are like arseholes-everybody has got one.As a parlimentarian said once"I dont agree with what you are saying but I will fight to the death for your right to say it". I rode in the M.G.P. four times and I am firmly of the opinion that it is one of the great personal challenges in sport.It is also extremely dangerous but so is life in general.I dont believe the mountain circuit is any more dangerous than the Exeter speedway track at the old county ground which had a steel safety fence.I bounced off that a time or two. Yours in sport,Rotrax.

Edited by rotrax, 08 November 2010 - 23:15.

Of course it has to be the Island,but after that I loved the 'country' circuits like Oulton and Cadwell. I remember reading in MCN once that the 50cc lap record had been broken after standing for three years. Apparently, I had been the holder of it but had been totally unaware until reading that article.

Keith,

I did ride it once at a Bemsee 'Clubman's Hutch'. I have to say I couldn't get on with it at all! Having ridden round the short circuit the other way so much I found it difficult not to follow my 'right way round' lines when going in the other direction - consequently I was all over the place! I assume you must have liked it?

Ray

Edited by Ray Oldam, 03 December 2010 - 17:45.

Brands GP circuit, but with the "old" Dingle Dell, before they re-profiled it. Not much of a corner to look at, but it was fast, blind on entry and demanded commitment if you were to get it right. Also Cadwell full circuit and similarly Hall Bends demanded the same sort of commitment - although I was glad when they removed the old stone bridge But, without wanting to restart an emotive topic, my favourite was always the IOM.

Mark.