AUTOSPORT.com's top 10s of the decade

If Alonso has more votes then Hamilton how come Hamilton is ahead on the list and if Kimi has more votes then Massa Button and so on how come they are ahead. Or am i just not understanding how this works.

The original Top 10 was written by Dodgins. The definitive Autosport Top 10 has been compiled from canvassing all the staff writers of the website and magazine. They are two seperate top 10s.

Button is still too high on all the lists. He did not do anything of substance for most of the decade. I know hes one of the few wc's of the decade but that should not be an automatic pass to greatness. I would expect a little more analytical consideration from experts.

- how many races did Barrichello not win with the best car of the grid? How many times was he stomped and shamed by his teammate (including Button, for Christ's sake)?

So, basically, to make it to the list, having some sort of lasting impression is a requirement and I can think of ten other guys who were better at that than those three.

He did better against Schumacher than Massa who is higher on the list. And if Button, who's been stomped by his teammates rather too often for a WDC, is on the list, why not Rubens?

Good post, but in 6 out of 10 years the team mate of Rubens was very tough to beat. Another way to compare them would be to look at the points they got in the 4 years at Honda/Brawn:

Rubens: 30/11/0/77 = 118 total
Jenson: 56/6/3/95 = 160 total

This is a bit closer than 80% vs. 10% in your post (and the perceived difference is probably even smaller). But it still shows that it is sensible to place Jenson above Rubens even if Rubens has more wins and total points in his career.

Off-topic: The new point system will make such comparisons much more difficult. :-/

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 02 January 2010 - 11:36.

Team mates beaten in the 00's:

Jenson 80%:

Rubens x 3 (06, 07, 09)
Sato x 2 (04, 05)
Villeneuve x 1 (03)
Trulli x 1 (02)

Rubens 10%:

Button x 1 (08)

Couldn't agree more

Shame on you AUTOSPORT, how can you publish such ridiculous list in the first place even if it's from one person's opinion.

This list is a total disgrace. I have always turned to AUTOSPORT.COM for news but this is a total disgrace. Shame on you. Button in 5th place, Kimi im 8th... I will have a hard time taking anything you you write seriously from now on. Shame on you. I know you are a english website but come on. You have now lost a reader.

In my opinion the clear top-3 from 2000-2009 in F1 have been Michael Schumacher, Fernando Alonso and Kimi Räikkönen.

I don't see how you can place any of the other drivers ahead of them. Of course it is a subjective opinion - but it is strongly supported by statistics as well.

In the recent couple of years imho clearly Lewis, Kimi and Fernando have been the top-3. Perhaps not surprisingly these seem to be the ones with the most fans.

Look at the posts in these top 10s I'd say Kimi has the most fans thats why theres being so much upset.

Look at the posts in these top 10s I'd say Kimi has the most fans thats why theres being so much upset.

Considering you've both just joined I can't imagine it is a great loss...

I mean, get some perspective. It is Dodgins' opinion.

The lists are there to promote debate.

Sheesh.

Don't think so since they don't report any WSBK news (a shame autosport, it's just as good as MotoGP nowadays). And it represents all of autosport.com writers etc views.

It suprised me that 2 people of the autosport.com team actually put Alonso over Schumacher in their list... They must have been under influence of something..;)

I'll give it a go! Hee!

World Superbike Top 10 of the Naughties
1. Troy Bayliss
2. Noriyuki Haga
3. Colin Edwards
4. James Toseland
5. Troy Corser
6. Ben Spies
7. Frankie Chili
8. Neil Hodgson
9. Ruben Xaus
10. Ben Bostrom

I pulled that out of my a**, so please feel free to take aim and fire.

I don't agree with you. This list was published as "AUTOSPORT.com's top 10 F1 Drivers", it represent AUTOSPORT's view no matter who wrote it. If AUTOSPORT's standard is so low I can't imagine how much craps had been published...

Look at the posts in these top 10s I'd say Kimi has the most fans thats why theres being so much upset.

I'll give it a go! Hee!

World Superbike Top 10 of the Naughties
1. Troy Bayliss
2. Noriyuki Haga
3. Colin Edwards
4. James Toseland
5. Troy Corser
6. Ben Spies
7. Frankie Chili
8. Neil Hodgson
9. Ruben Xaus
10. Ben Bostrom

I pulled that out of my a**, so please feel free to take aim and fire.

Edited by santori, 03 January 2010 - 10:38.

I'd like to see Autosport cover WSBK too, but I don't think the series can be called equal to MotoGP. When their new top driver is "promoted" to MotoGP right after winning the championship, it's hard to claim equality. The racing is terrific in WSBK, but the riders clearly view MotoGP as the top step.

..and Massa should not be ahead of Raikkonen.

Edited by HaPe, 03 January 2010 - 11:33.

Hu? Defintely Massa has to be ahead of Raikkonen.
He proved to be the better driver in 2008 and 2009 (until his crash).

Hu? Defintely Massa has to be ahead of Raikkonen.
He proved to be the better driver in 2008 and 2009 (until his crash).
Also in 2007 he was as strong as Kimi (the margin came by technical failures).

[b]It puts the input of Hamilton, Webber, Kubica and Vettel into the right perspective.

The decade covers 2000-2009, not only 2008 and 2009.

Definitely not. A simple point table is no way to assess their input.
If we go by the points, it seems Barrichelo was a leading and comanding force of the decade. Raking up results all along the way. And history shows us it was the contrary. The closest he ever came to a title fight was in 2009, probably the weakest year of the entire decade. He never led the points table and never had more wins than a teammate of his. He has been solid and a good driver, raking up points and helping develop cars, but that's hardly more impressive than Kubica leading the WDC briefly in 2008, or Vettel's 4 wins of 2009, or Hamilton's imediate success against Alonso and 2008 title.

From the drivers you mentioned, the only one I'd put Barrichello above is Webber.

but for 2008 it Kimi was as strong as him (the margin came by technical failures).

Edited by HaPe, 03 January 2010 - 11:56.

But 2007-2009 were the years to compare these 2 (objective).
Massa has made silly mistakes and stuff in his early years, okay. But has been grown and become a mature title contender.

An we look to that comparison TODAY ... not 2005.

Just for a quick comparison, this is the point score total of the decade:

1 SCHUMACHER Michael 799.00
2 RAIKKONEN Kimi 579.00
3 ALONSO Fernando 577.00
4 BARRICHELLO Rubens 530.00
5 BUTTON Jenson 327.00
6 MASSA Felipe 320.00
7 COULTHARD David 314.00
8 MONTOYA Juan-Pablo 307.00
9 SCHUMACHER Ralf 267.00
10 HAMILTON Lewis 256.00
11 TRULLI Jarno 235.50
12 FISICHELLA Giancarlo 226.00
13 HEIDFELD Nick 219.00
14 WEBBER Mark 169.50
15 KUBICA Robert 137.00
16 HAKKINEN Mika 126.00
17 VETTEL Sebastian 125.00
18 KOVALAINEN Heikki 105.00
19 ROSBERG Nico 75.50
20 VILLENEUVE Jacques 55.00

It puts the input of Hamilton, Webber, Kubica and Vettel into the right perspective.

Edited by Galko877, 03 January 2010 - 11:58.

That does not allow us to neglect the 2005 results in favour of the 2009 results.

Edited by HaPe, 03 January 2010 - 11:59.

Points/race would be however:

Edited by RodrigoL, 03 January 2010 - 12:04.

This is a joke or?!
Have you reviewed how many points Massa lost due technical (or team dependend) failures in that year?! More than 20...

No, I just bounced your silly claims back at you. How many points did Kimi lose be being hit from behind at red lights 2008?

Edited by HaPe, 03 January 2010 - 12:18.

Agreed.
My point was not to move Massa up the list, but to move Raikkonen down!
2007-2009 showed and proved, that Raikkonen was a bit overrated in his McLaren years.

..and even Kimi produced bad results in his early years. He lost again Heidfeld and DC.
The only difference to Massa is, that Massa made mistakes that looked more silly.

He did not lose against Heidfeld. He "won" the McLaren ride that Nick was destined for, how do you like that? There was no doubt that he was the better driver when he teamed up with DC either. In fact, the first part of 2009 is the only time in his career that he has been distinctively outperformed by a team mate.

I didnt deny that Kimi lost points 2008. What I asid was that Massa lost more (and thus have fallen behind in the end of the season).

Apart from 2008.

Massa did not outperform Kimi 2008. They was very evenly matched. Hamilton hitting him in Canada and Kimi himself hitting the barriers at Spa brought Massa ahead.

I see.

Good. Although I doubt you do.