Nico Rosberg said Schumacher had started making F1 dangerous

http://www.f1fanatic...berg-thinks-so/

It is Michael Schumacher who started this, like at Spa, when Mika Hakkinen tried to overtake him and he ran him off the track. When the guy behind has made a decision [to pass] and the guy in front then moves over, it is very dangerous. You cannot do that. That was the first time I remember it being a dangerous issue.

Barrichello, Webber and Kobayashi did exactly the same thing [at Interlagos]. With Webber, Raikkonen lost his front wing, with Kobayashi, Nakajima had a massive off, which could have been much worse – you can really hurt yourself, marshals and others in that sort of accident. With Barrichello, Lewis ran into the back of his tyre. That was the third time – and it is not allowed to happen.

Do you think his accusation is right?

http://www.f1fanatic...berg-thinks-so/

Do you think his accusation is right?

Old news, stirred up by the media again.

Well Nico was quite right, and it's up to the stewards to put a stop to it. Let's hope the stewarding improves with the new arrangements.

http://www.f1fanatic...berg-thinks-so/

Do you think his accusation is right?

Well Nico wasn't born when Senna Pushed Prost into the pitwall
No wonder Nico didnt know about it

This is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

He is right to a point, but do you blame MS or blame the fia stewards for not clamping down on it and put an end to it striaghtaway? Then you get to the question why they turned a blind eye, was due to it not being in FIA interest of the "show" or other.

http://www.f1fanatic...berg-thinks-so/

Do you think his accusation is right?

Yes and no. It did not start with MS, it started with Senna bumping prost off the road and vice versa................................and probably before that

But as noted before, it is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.......Nicoie and Schuie will make great mates...

A lapdog that yaps a little bit, bad doggie!!!!

.........MS must be thinking, why did Ross have to run off Rubens and replace him with this little snot before I got here?????

Edited by Just waiting, 02 January 2010 - 15:12.

Well Nico wasn't born when Senna Pushed Prost into the pitwall
No wonder Nico didnt know about it

Slight correction- he didn't push Prost into the pitwall, he pushed him towards it. And Prost still passed.

This is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

If Nico feels that he is being treated as nr.2 all hell will brake loose.
He and Keke will hold no punches.

I just hope that he doesn't start whining like Rubens did last year, if he gets beaten by MS fairly.
But that's the easy way to protect your ego, blaming the team and not your own performance.

A lapdog that yaps a little bit, bad doggie!!!!

media news factory, trying to **** in the fan. RB is going to manage this easily. this news aside, it IS possible that there will be tension between those two, going to be a mighty interesting scenario. but I think NR will be up for the job, and both he and MS is more intelligent than to create a tense working environment for themselves, especially from the beginning. so I think no big deal.

Edited by Szoelloe, 02 January 2010 - 15:37.

No. It was Senna who did it.

Old news, stirred up by the media again.

Exactly, old news that "media" like crash.net and other cr@p outfits are trying to peddle for days now.

Fascinating though how anything even remotely associated with big Schumi is news nowadays.

I think his pop did some as well.......as one of the ten "worst backmarkers"

Keke Rosberg
Rosberg’s driving manners were usually sound but what he did to Ayrton Senna in a rage during the 1985 European Grand Prix would surely earn a lengthy ban today.

Having spun out in a clash with Senna early into the race Rosberg ducked into the pits, emerging just metres in front of Senna, who had Rosberg’s team mate Nigel Mansell close behind.

Rosberg proceeded to carefully block Senna, allowing Mansell past, before turning up the turbo boost and scampering free of the pair of them. Mansell cruised home to take his first Grand Prix win…

http://www.f1fanatic...st-backmarkers/

Slight correction- he didn't push Prost into the pitwall, he pushed him towards it. And Prost still passed.

Exactly. And this was after Prost having pushed Senna towards the track boundaries just one lap before on the same straight. Both of them left enough space for their rivals and got overtaken respectively. Nothing dirty about that. These two drivers only ever did one dirty maneuver each: Suzuka 89 and 90.

MS driving MH off the road in Spa was dirty. But tbh it could only be the most prominent maneuver of that kind. Without actually checking every backfield maneuver throughout several decades it's impossible to say if MS started it. I wont plead for MS being guilty unless someone could genuinely prove it to me. Presumption of innocence is what they call it.

Exactly. And this was after Prost having pushed Senna towards the track boundaries just one lap before on the same straight. Both of them left enough space for their rivals and got overtaken respectively. Nothing dirty about that. These two drivers only ever did one dirty maneuver each: Suzuka 89 and 90.

MS driving MH off the road in Spa was dirty. But tbh it could only be the most prominent maneuver of that kind. Without actually checking every backfield maneuver throughout several decades it's impossible to say if MS started it. I wont plead for MS being guilty unless someone could genuinely prove it to me. Presumption of innocence is what they call it.

you sure about that?

Here we go again...

New Year, New Decade, Same old stuff is around again...

I think his pop did some as well.......as one of the ten "worst backmarkers"



http://www.f1fanatic...st-backmarkers/

An here is the video.
Nico baby must really think twice before opening his mouth.

BTW, not opening big mouth in front of the media was one of the lessons young Schumacher got from A. Senna early in his career - 1992 IIRC.

An here is the video.
Nico baby must really think twice before opening his mouth.

BTW, not opening big mouth in front of the media was one of the lessons young Schumacher got from A. Senna early in his career - 1992 IIRC.

Thanks for the link!

Keke, pot, kettle, black.

It's the famous 'chop'. Schumi did it many times, many drivers did it, and that's one of the reasons we see so little overtaking in F1. I'd not blame Schumi but FIA for it.

Its official now - there was no dangerous driving in F1 before 2000. Because Nico said so.

What a great champion like Schumacher or Senna does (or gets away with) will set an example that influences everyone else from fellow F1 drivers to junior karts.

An here is the video.
Nico baby must really think twice before opening his mouth.

BTW, not opening big mouth in front of the media was one of the lessons young Schumacher got from A. Senna early in his career - 1992 IIRC.

Sorry but no go, totally different:

Exactly. And this was after Prost having pushed Senna towards the track boundaries just one lap before on the same straight. Both of them left enough space for their rivals and got overtaken respectively. Nothing dirty about that. These two drivers only ever did one dirty maneuver each: Suzuka 89 and 90.

MS driving MH off the road in Spa was dirty. But tbh it could only be the most prominent maneuver of that kind. Without actually checking every backfield maneuver throughout several decades it's impossible to say if MS started it. I wont plead for MS being guilty unless someone could genuinely prove it to me. Presumption of innocence is what they call it.

MS also put Alonso in the grass at Silverstone at top speed. But as usual the stewards did nothing. It's deliberately taking the risk to kill somebody.

Not killing, but not caring if they crash.

Sorry but no go, totally different:

Loved Mikas interviews " So I went to plan B, I overtook the backmarker and overtook the Michael at the same time"

Senna started it - Schumacher perfected it - and both got away with it time after time after time.

Nico is right thatit is dangerous - and hopefully the new Mercedes team will have words with Schumacher about his driving style.

But what is more likely is that Brawn will encourage Schumacher to be the driver of old - and counsel that only a hyper aggressive style will be successful.

If I were Nico I would be more worried about becoming the "shut up and come behind Michael at our orders" driver.

Exactly. And this was after Prost having pushed Senna towards the track boundaries just one lap before on the same straight. Both of them left enough space for their rivals and got overtaken respectively. Nothing dirty about that. These two drivers only ever did one dirty maneuver each: Suzuka 89 and 90.

MS driving MH off the road in Spa was dirty. But tbh it could only be the most prominent maneuver of that kind. Without actually checking every backfield maneuver throughout several decades it's impossible to say if MS started it. I wont plead for MS being guilty unless someone could genuinely prove it to me. Presumption of innocence is what they call it.

Did you watch F1 during the period 1991 to 2006?

Did you notice Australia 1994 and Jerez in 97. Did you see every start he made from the from row?

The man was as innocent as a $5 hooker

Well Nico wasn't born when Senna Pushed Prost into the pitwall
No wonder Nico didnt know about it

Nor when Prost chopped Senna entering the Suzuka chicane...........

Did you watch F1 during the period 1991 to 2006?

Did you notice Australia 1994 and Jerez in 97. Did you see every start he made from the from row?

The man was as innocent as a $5 hooker

Yes I did watch F1 in that time. Schumi did a lot of dirty moves. But hanging him for something that is anything but proven is unfair too imho.

Yes I did watch F1 in that time. Schumi did a lot of dirty moves. But hanging him for something that is anything but proven is unfair too imho.

What do you require?

If you watched you saw the actions that he did. The proof is in the watching. Did you see his consistently chop drivers? Did you see him take one title by running into Hill? Did you see him try and take another title by running into Villeneuve?

Not sure what else you require. The fact that his actions, as well as Senna's, were ignored by the FIA doesn't prove innocence - it just proves the FIA's inability to run F1.

Yes and no. It did not start with MS, it started with Senna bumping prost off the road and vice versa................................and probably before that

But as noted before, it is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.......Nicoie and Schuie will make great mates...

A lapdog that yaps a little bit, bad doggie!!!!

.........MS must be thinking, why did Ross have to run off Rubens and replace him with this little snot before I got here?????

Rosberg's statement was made after the incidents in Brazil. Supposedly, by the time, Brawn made the first (very informal) winks to Schumacher. This might have been his way of saying "Ross please, no. I will not take it easily" or he might honestly believe that it all started with MS and, if that is the case, I am very disappointed of Rosberg's statements here: I would have thought he heard of that 3xWDC that was born in Brazil and always justified his dirty antics on track by hiding into an (alleged) spiritual blanket. Apparently, he never heard/saw anything from Senna then.

2 of the top 5 drivers ever are also the dirtiest drivers in F1.
This is sad since both had been fabulous without those antics,
but I guess it's that mentality they had, the approach to racing.

There are others who have succeeded without it, but we never
shall know why some do some things like they do.

Forget the European GP at Brands towards the end of the season Keke initially voiced concerns abour Senna's driving after the 85 Canadian GP.....

I seem to recall reading about it in MotorSport...

What do you require?

A proof that he was the first one to get away with moves like that? I'm not white-knighting Schumi. If it was for me he would have earned himself a lot more beating then he got. But I refuse to make him responsible for something that could have just as well been introduced by someone else.

And don't bring Senna into this topic. He never did resort to maneuvers like that.

A proof that he was the first one to get away with moves like that? I'm not white-knighting Schumi. If it was for me he would have earned himself a lot more beating then he got. But I refuse to make him responsible for something that could have just as well been introduced by someone else.

And don't bring Senna into this topic. He never did resort to maneuvers like that.

How come you have missed totally how all in this thread have
said he didn't start the dirty, he just perfected it?


EDIT:
ps. yes Senna did those dirty things, but again; Michael perfected them!

Edited by Mungo Fangio of the Year, 03 January 2010 - 00:12.

A proof that he was the first one to get away with moves like that? I'm not white-knighting Schumi. If it was for me he would have earned himself a lot more beating then he got. But I refuse to make him responsible for something that could have just as well been introduced by someone else.

And don't bring Senna into this topic. He never did resort to maneuvers like that.

Prost (among others) would disagree with that

Senna started it - Schumacher perfected it - and both got away with it time after time after time.

Not quite, ... IMHO.


Senna move was more racing-in-style in terms of his critics how ever dirty he moved, while Michael's move had accompanied some kinda bad reputation... felt like Michael was nt as god as Senna, .. IMHO... perhaps this has a lot to do with TV exposures...

Edited by One, 03 January 2010 - 00:15.

Prost (among others) would disagree with that

As if you knew what they thought about it...

Schumacher and Rosberg are already getting along fine and I believe they will be one of the best driver combo-duo of all teams next year.

This is Team Germany we are talking about here.. The last thing both of them want is in-fighting between themselves. To the contrary, it will be their greatest strenght becuase both of them wil be driving for the pride of Germany. And , Rosberg knows MS is the man , he sees this as a golden oppertunity being teamate to the greatest F1 driver of the modern era. Him being by Schumi's side will only be beneficial .. He knows it and so does his father Keke knows it.

They will both support each other and you just watch how Rosberg will become Schumi's newset protoge like with Felipe !

As if you knew what they thought about it...

Well, their thoughts about those moves are a matter of public record, and go all the way back to a touring car race in a bunch of spec mercedes' at the new nurburgring in 1984.

That said, Senna was most definitely not the first, as I can recall Stirling Moss saying that while just about everyone on the grid in the 1950s would always give each other room due to the level of danger (you were already doing something likely to be lethal, and didn't need dangerous driving to make it worse), Farina would chop, block and do whatever he could. So, although it may have been a much less frequent feature of racing back then, it undoubtedly occured.

The blame falls ultimately on the FIA. They are supposed to police the drivers and ensure dangerous risks are not taken. Their consistent failure to do so reflects much worse on them than on the drivers who are doing whatever they can to win (and can get away with).

Schumacher and Rosberg are already getting along fine and I believe they will be one of the best driver combo-duo of all teams next year.

This is Team Germany we are talking about here.. The last thing both of them want is in-fighting between themselves. To the contrary, it will be their greatest strenght becuase both of them wil be driving for the pride of Germany. And , Rosberg knows MS is the man , he sees this as a golden oppertunity being teamate to the greatest F1 driver of the modern era. Him being by Schumi's side will only be beneficial .. He knows it and so does his father Keke knows it.

They will both support each other and you just watch how Rosberg will become Schumi's newset protoge like with Felipe !

And then you woke and your bed was wet?

Nico is NO rookie who needs to be protege!

Who started it doesn't matter, although I can't see how anyone can defend shumachers antics on track the fact is he was a hard arse to get past and many other drivers in F1 have followed with the same methods. But the only one's to blame for it is the FIA and race stewards for allowing it to start, and then continue, and then get worse, and guess what until something is done it will get even worse, and it does reduce overtaking like we need that in F1.

Who started it doesn't matter, although I can't see how anyone can defend shumachers antics on track the fact is he was a hard arse to get past and many other drivers in F1 have followed with the same methods. But the only one's to blame for it is the FIA and race stewards for allowing it to start, and then continue, and then get worse, and guess what until something is done it will get even worse, and it does reduce overtaking like we need that in F1.

Absolutely right, the FIA should punish dirty driving. But it is also a mentality thing. If you don't care to kill somebody who tries to pass you, you'll do it.

neither senna or schumacher were the first to drive dirty, Jack Brabham got a reputation as a dirty driver in his day if i recall correctly. No, it's as old as the hills but that doesn't make it right.

The thing about Schumacher was that it became so tediously predictable, anytime a driver got a run at him he left it right up to the last second then chopped them, forcing them to lift or crash. If they were alongside he would just run them off the road and of course did it with the full protection of the FIA. Bear in mind he was doing that in F3 and you can see it was a way of life for the guy. Just off the top of my head he ran alonso off at silverstone, hakkinnen off at spa, ralf off at monza and imola, montoya off at imola and took his front wing off at interlagos and put frentzen in the wall at montreal (then went on to acuse hill of dangerous driving.....) and of course the guys that kept on coming just got rammed, like hill and villeneuve.

It's such a talentless, joyless way to go racing. You see kids in their first season in racing doing the same thing, it takes no skill or ability whatsoever and is a little sad to see so frequently at the top of the sport. Compare that to the joy and fluidity of Barrichello moving through the field at silverstone and it's like watching a different sport altogether.

I hope the FIA will run a cleaner shop this time round but with Schumachers adopted 'daddy' running the show it's hard to imagine.

Edited by Boing 2, 03 January 2010 - 14:32.

Rosberg's statement was made after the incidents in Brazil. Supposedly, by the time, Brawn made the first (very informal) winks to Schumacher. This might have been his way of saying "Ross please, no. I will not take it easily" or he might honestly believe that it all started with MS and, if that is the case, I am very disappointed of Rosberg's statements here: I would have thought he heard of that 3xWDC that was born in Brazil and always justified his dirty antics on track by hiding into an (alleged) spiritual blanket. Apparently, he never heard/saw anything from Senna then.

No, nicio's pop (keke) never told him what he did to Senna or others.......

Of course, there are those who say Senna did it out in the open for all the honest world to see, so that made it all different.

In 1994, if that had been Senna instead of MS, Senna would have taken Damon out at the first corner, not later, and everyone would still be talking about the Senna legendary greatness.......

As to Nico being a protege, it would be more like being a lapdog.....

Nevertheless, right now, Ross Brawn has the "touch" when it comes to F1, and I would think anyone would jump through their butt backward to drive for him. (8 victories last year, drivers 1 and 2 in championship, and the WCC------RBR was second in victories running a RENAULT engine----now if RBR had just talked Ross into the fold .......rather than him going to Honda, then I can only think that the number of victories would have been about 14 to 17, and Vettel would be WDC)

Freddi A went to ferrari where everyone thinks and remembers ferrari from the days of Ross, Todt and MS.......and Freddie will find out that maybe he should have run to Brawn instead, if he wants more WDC crowns placed on his head, and if I were Lewis's pop, I would be thinking, that Mac may have the money, but Brawn/ mercedes has the Ross.....

my guess is that Nico needs to tough it out, and sooner or later he will be WDC, probably before Vetttel.......and be a good lapdog, but learn everything he can from Ross, MS and crew

Hell, even at my old age, if I could drive for Ross, and he would spend the time helping me get it right, than I think I might be winning a race or two!!!!!

Edited by Just waiting, 03 January 2010 - 14:43.

Here we go again...

New Year, New Decade, Same old stuff is around again...

Yep.
Everyone together now...
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep.
Everyone together now...
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny, I thought you said SENILITY NOW.

Would be very applicable around here

esp in response to my last post.....

Yep.
Everyone together now...
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL. Classic Quote from the show!

LOL. Classic Quote from the show!

''You know I always wanted to be an architec'' .....