Which driver is the most aggressive in wheel to wheel racing?

Webber and Schumacher well known for their possibly dangerous blocking.

Hamilton well known for his possibly dangerous overtaking, where pushing other cars onto the grass or forcing them down the escape road is acceptable.

Kobayashi well known for his possibly dangerous blocking although his overtaking is very fair.

Button, not the on the list, one of the best overtaker but very very fair IMO.

Please select other if you like, or refute the options as poorly selected if you like too!

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 23 January 2010 - 20:17.

Webber based on last season, got away with some shocking on track acts

I think it is a little too be in such poll. We will see next year, but for sure he has potential.

Definitely Heidfeld. Don't understand why he's not in the list.

Almost seems like this poll was made along the lines of "Oh, yeah, everyone is going to vote for Schumacher..."

Otherwise, you should probably wait until Dec. 2010 if you intend on putting Kobayashi in there :/

Webber at this moment but it used to be Coulthard.

Otherwise, you should probably wait until Dec. 2010 if you intend on putting Kobayashi in there :/

He already caused a crash with Nakajima by blocking so I think it is fair.

.

Hamilton well known for his possibly dangerous overtaking, where pushing other cars onto the grass or forcing them down the escape road is acceptable.

Once pushed Tim onto the grass, by staying on line with filthy mirrors. Once moved Webbo over in the braking area onto a damper part of the track. A hundred other times executed a perfect clean pass.

Well known for his clean racing.

He already caused a crash with Nakajima by blocking so I think it is fair.

I'd chalk that up to a rookie mistake/inexperience rather than something that's a cornerstone of his racecraft and driving style. The sample size, 2 freaking races, is pretty small to come to the conclusion that Kobayashi is going to be weaving, blocking, and chopping every single race, don't you think?

Otherwise, if you're going to go off a single incident, I think this list should include the vast majority of F1 drivers.

Schumacher shouldn't be in it either, he should start with a clean slate and his last dangerous manoevure in F1 was forcing Alonso onto the grass at Silverstone about 6 years ago

Schumacher shouldn't be in it either, he should start with a clean slate

why should he start with a clean slate?

Yuji Ide

Yuji Ide

Yep, hopefully everyone have their insurance in place when they go wheel-to-wheel with Yuji

I'm suprised Nakajima isn't on the list.

He must have cost Williams a small fortune with the amout of front wings he knocked off by being over ambitious into turn 1 of every race.

But I guess that could be marked down as just being hopeless at judging his breaking points.

Edited by johnmhinds, 23 January 2010 - 21:46.

Schumacher shouldn't be in it either, he should start with a clean slate

They all should then.... you're only as good as your last race.

Yuji Ide

Good one, but still a bit controversial IMO as 'being aggressive' implies being actually in control over the car and pushing it a bit too far. Ide used to be simply dangerous.

Webber.

But he's also the dirtiest driver in Formula One, and not for the better.

Webber.

But he's also the dirtiest driver in Formula One, and not for the better.

I saw an interview with Webber on Sky News a while ago and they asked him who was his F1 idol before he joined the sport. It was Michael Schumacher (that shocked me I must say). So maybe he decided to continue where Schumacher left off.

I think it is Schumacher. Its one thing seeing it but another thing experiencing it if you are an F1 driver. So I'm going with what F1 drivers have said.

However I'm pretty mean on the F12009 Wii game. I go wheel to barrier.

Edited by Mandzipop, 23 January 2010 - 21:47.

Fernando Alonso was asked by a TV journalist which driver he would not like to see behind him.
He answered "Any driver in a faster car, or Nick Heidfeld."

Fernando Alonso was asked by a TV journalist which driver he would not like to see behind him.
He answered "Any driver in a faster car, or Nick Heidfeld."

vs hitting Heidfeld at 3.32min



The OP asked "Which driver is the most aggressive" I'd say Alonso.

Edited by Biggles Flies Undone, 23 January 2010 - 22:20.

vs hitting Heidfeld at 3.32min

To be fair on Alonso it is raining, at Monaco.

The OP asked "Which driver is the most aggressive" I'd say Alonso.

That move by Alonso at Monaco 2008 was a disgrace.

He got tired of following Nick around so just rammed him at the hairpin.

Not aggressive, just impatient.

Prost, a really dirty driver he was!

A bit disappointing, but Schumacher does not win this one . He is extremely tough to pass, but almost always fair. He's just not generous in any way whatsoever. He has made a few questionable moves over the years, but as with all megastars, people tend to focus on him and ignore the rest. The camera is on him most of the time as well, so what do you expect?

Hamilton should not be anywhere near this list. He is a very gifted passer that often embarasses the opposition, yet he rarely gets it wrong. Pretty much as good as you can get.

If Sato was still in F1, I think he would be right up there with the worst, but currently of the top 10 drivers, Webber is probably the worst/most dangerous. He has misjudged quite a few maneouvres over the years, and he seems dirtier than Schumacher ever was.


Cooper

Thats the great thing about Nick Heidfeld. The guy has often shown he can overtake anybody on any track.

Edited by Kucki, 23 January 2010 - 23:34.

Thats the great thing about Nick Heidfeld. The guy has often shown he can overtake anybody on any track.

Yeah, Heidfeld is a great overtaker. I still remember his move on Alonso at Magny-Cours... I can recall it vividly just not what year it was.

Damon Hill !

Alonso VS Heidfeld PART 2 - 2009 European GP

Schumacher having a good laugh !

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


FA cant handle Heidfeld ..... ( he's a double world champ ? )

Montoya. /thread

Webber based on last season, got away with some shocking on track acts

Like what?

The only move of him that was not clean was his hit on Rubens in Germany. He did not get away with it. But it wasn't aggressive driving rather than not knowing Rubens was there. In PC or an interview he explained he didn't see Rubens anymore and only wanted to close the line for the quickly closing in Hamilton.

If you mean the incident in Brazil, then you're wrong. Räikkönen drove straight into his back.

A third possibility would be Singapore. Yet there Alonso actually drove Webber and himself off the track, because he missed the braking spot. Not Webber's fault at all and an embarrassingly bad call by the stewards.



Of the given one's I'd vote Schumacher, because he has done virtually every over-aggressive and dangerous move there is, including purposely crashing into championship rivals, repeatedly. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this makes him a bad racer. It's part of his success story. It may not make him very likable, but I doubt this causes him going to bed crying.

If you are going to ask other peoples opinions why limit the poll to just your choices V8 Fireworks?

I would have said Alonso, closely followed by Hamilton.

Like what?

The only move of him that was not clean was his hit on Rubens in Germany. He did not get away with it. But it wasn't aggressive driving rather than not knowing Rubens was there. In PC or an interview he explained he didn't see Rubens anymore and only wanted to close the line for the quickly closing in Hamilton.

If you mean the incident in Brazil, then you're wrong. Räikkönen drove straight into his back.

A third possibility would be Singapore. Yet there Alonso actually drove Webber and himself off the track, because he missed the braking spot. Not Webber's fault at all and an embarrassingly bad call by the stewards.



Of the given one's I'd vote Schumacher, because he has done virtually every over-aggressive and dangerous move there is, including purposely crashing into championship rivals, repeatedly. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this makes him a bad racer. It's part of his success story. It may not make him very likable, but I doubt this causes him going to bed crying.

I think by the very nature that you felt the need to suddenly come up with excuses for webber when no particular racing incident was mentioned speaks volumes in it's self.

Personally I think Shumacher is aggressive to the boundaries of being unfair but Webber is just simply dangerous to be anywhere near.

It's easier said then having been through a whole career in positions of responsibility and being the man to beat.

With Schumacher, 1991-2006, and now 2010 to??, he has had the biggest success, which meant more responsibility as championship contender, more positions to defend, more need to attack, if your too soft, your not trying hard enough, if your too rough, your dangerous, but there are examples of many drivers doing damergous thingd and antiics, but not many drivers or no driver really can claim to have had success without those moments of how that could be dangerous, racing is not having a cup of tea, its meant to be dangerous, were talking about tenths at high speed, breaking distances are a difficult challenge with today's efficient breaks, anyone trying to overtake and geting it wrong, at these high speeds can easily be a villian in one race, and a hero in another.

Drivers like Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi and Schumacher are all nutters and have all looked dangerous at times and aggressive, the same temperment that makes them fast and good, also means living on a finite edge and being daring, it does not always work out, because their human as well.

A bit disappointing, but Schumacher does not win this one . He is extremely tough to pass, but almost always fair. He's just not generous in any way whatsoever. He has made a few questionable moves over the years, but as with all megastars, people tend to focus on him and ignore the rest. The camera is on him most of the time as well, so what do you expect?

Hamilton should not be anywhere near this list. He is a very gifted passer that often embarasses the opposition, yet he rarely gets it wrong. Pretty much as good as you can get.

If Sato was still in F1, I think he would be right up there with the worst, but currently of the top 10 drivers, Webber is probably the worst/most dangerous. He has misjudged quite a few maneouvres over the years, and he seems dirtier than Schumacher ever was.


Cooper

I was gonna mention Sato as well. I think if you put alot of driver's bad moves in championship finales and title deciding races, they would be more memorable, but as usual, unless the star is big, your not going to be remembered well, the spotlight will be on a Hamilton, Schumacher, Alonso, anyone as the man man in their teams with a chance at the title will be under close scrunity.

Many decades ago, many drivers got away with alot of recklessness, but because the tv cameras were not everyhere to follow them, their moves will not be on you tube to replay on forums, modern f1 is very well watched, but at times some people forget just how intense this sport can be, it's not a family outing, men in fast cars driving around like nutters around the world sometimes in the rain with alot of pressure and responsibility to succeed on many levels is sometimes no different then the gladitorial arena in ancient rome, winning is everything ultimately, but some drivers will always be happy just to sit back, collect money and beat a teamate and think it's good done, but some just love to race and compete and beat a highly valued competitor.

Edited by SeanValen, 24 January 2010 - 02:26.

I think the terms aggressive and dangerous are being mixed in this thread. Aggressive to me implies a driver consistently attempting to either make a move on someone else, or defend, under the widest range of circumstances possible. Dangerous to me implies the driver is a risk to those around them insofar as their actions might have unintended consequences to those around them, such as taking other drivers out through mistakes, or failing to be able to adequately control their car.

So, for aggressive, I think at the moment in F1 it's probably Hamilton, although I don't think anyone was more aggressive than Montoya in the last decade or so. In terms of dirty, at the moment I'd say Webber, since he seems inclined to weave all over the track to block those behind him, although he's a long, long way from some of the absolute public safety hazards we've had in cockpits in the past...

It's easier said then having been through a whole career in positions of responsibility and being the man to beat.

With Schumacher, 1991-2006, and now 2010 to??, he has had the biggest success, which meant more responsibility as championship contender, more positions to defend, more need to attack, if your too soft, your not trying hard enough, if your too rough, your dangerous, but there are examples of many drivers doing damergous thingd and antiics, but not many drivers or no driver really can claim to have had success without those moments of how that could be dangerous, racing is not having a cup of tea, its meant to be dangerous, were talking about tenths at high speed, breaking distances are a difficult challenge with today's efficient breaks, anyone trying to overtake and geting it wrong, at these high speeds can easily be a villian in one race, and a hero in another.

Drivers like Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi and Schumacher are all nutters and have all looked dangerous at times and aggressive, the same temperment that makes them fast and good, also means living on a finite edge and being daring, it does not always work out, because their human as well.

Very true where racing incidents are concerned but not where a consious decision is made that regularly finishes someone elses race. Forcing someone off the track on a straight is not a racing incident.

well i guess crashlaskie is dangerous, so he is beyond this poll

maybe robby gordon, i think carlos would agree xD

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

My, My

How quickly the fanboys are eager to forget........




Gentleman,

May i direct your attention to the Japanese Grand Prix 2007. It was the scene of the most dirty, sneeky and downright dangerous driving in the sports 59 year History.

Hamilton leads under the Safety car, Followed by Webber and Vettel, who are showing more speed and skill in the wet with inferior equipment than Blewy. Hamilton decides he cant win in a fair fight so he decides to get down and dirty once again.

He behaves like an idiot, brake testing Webber in terrible conditions, accelerating and braking nearly hitting the safety car on numerous occasions. He finally accelerates away towards the safety car, pulls off to the side of the track, knowing that Webber and Vettel will have to accelerate to catch up. Webber has to brake strongly to not pass Hamilton under the safety car, Vettel accelarates behind Webber, notices Hamilton nearly stationary off the racing line. In the confusion caused by the dirty Hamilton, Vettel hits Webber and both of the fearless heroes are out of the race, blowing a potential 1-2 for red bull and the sister team.

Disgraceful, Outrageous, Disgusting are not strong enough words to describe the move

A quote from Vettel

" Hamilton was being an idiot behind the safety car, He pulled of to the side of the track, I noticed him and i thought he was stopped with a technical problem..out of the race. This caused my crash with Mark, Lewis is dirty."

Hamilton not only endangered the lives of fellow F1 drivers Mark and Vettel but also the life of the Safety car driver.

He should have been up against attempted murder charges or at the very least stripped of his superlicense.


I was disgusted to be a F1 fan that day, Surely the blackest of F1 moments




I rest my case.

If we are going to statr talking about past drivers now, Senna has to be up there. His move on prost into turn 1 at suzuka was at high speed in cars that were alot less safe. More dangerous than any of schumachers moves IMO.

My, My

How quickly the fanboys are eager to forget........




Gentleman,

May i direct your attention to the Japanese Grand Prix 2007. It was the scene of the most dirty, sneeky and downright dangerous driving in the sports 59 year History.

Hamilton leads under the Safety car, Followed by Webber and Vettel, who are showing more speed and skill in the wet with inferior equipment than Blewy. Hamilton decides he cant win in a fair fight so he decides to get down and dirty once again.

He behaves like an idiot, brake testing Webber in terrible conditions, accelerating and braking nearly hitting the safety car on numerous occasions. He finally accelerates away towards the safety car, pulls off to the side of the track, knowing that Webber and Vettel will have to accelerate to catch up. Webber has to brake strongly to not pass Hamilton under the safety car, Vettel accelarates behind Webber, notices Hamilton nearly stationary off the racing line. In the confusion caused by the dirty Hamilton, Vettel hits Webber and both of the fearless heroes are out of the race, blowing a potential 1-2 for red bull and the sister team.

Disgraceful, Outrageous, Disgusting are not strong enough words to describe the move

A quote from Vettel

" Hamilton was being an idiot behind the safety car, He pulled of to the side of the track, I noticed him and i thought he was stopped with a technical problem..out of the race. This caused my crash with Mark, Lewis is dirty."

Hamilton not only endangered the lives of fellow F1 drivers Mark and Vettel but also the life of the Safety car driver.

He should have been up against attempted murder charges or at the very least stripped of his superlicense.


I was disgusted to be a F1 fan that day, Surely the blackest of F1 moments




I rest my case.

I didn't see anyone else make the complete balls up that Vettle and Webber made of that, I'd say Webber and Vettle was trying to stick to closely to Lewis and panicked which caused there collision, perhaps in future they will drive a bit more carefully in the wet so they can finish 2nd and 3rd behind Lewis.

Juan Pablo Montoya comes to mind...

My, My

How quickly the fanboys are eager to forget........




Gentleman,

May i direct your attention to the Japanese Grand Prix 2007. It was the scene of the most dirty, sneeky and downright dangerous driving in the sports 59 year History.

Hamilton leads under the Safety car, Followed by Webber and Vettel, who are showing more speed and skill in the wet with inferior equipment than Blewy. Hamilton decides he cant win in a fair fight so he decides to get down and dirty once again.

He behaves like an idiot, brake testing Webber in terrible conditions, accelerating and braking nearly hitting the safety car on numerous occasions. He finally accelerates away towards the safety car, pulls off to the side of the track, knowing that Webber and Vettel will have to accelerate to catch up. Webber has to brake strongly to not pass Hamilton under the safety car, Vettel accelarates behind Webber, notices Hamilton nearly stationary off the racing line. In the confusion caused by the dirty Hamilton, Vettel hits Webber and both of the fearless heroes are out of the race, blowing a potential 1-2 for red bull and the sister team.

Disgraceful, Outrageous, Disgusting are not strong enough words to describe the move

A quote from Vettel

" Hamilton was being an idiot behind the safety car, He pulled of to the side of the track, I noticed him and i thought he was stopped with a technical problem..out of the race. This caused my crash with Mark, Lewis is dirty."

Hamilton not only endangered the lives of fellow F1 drivers Mark and Vettel but also the life of the Safety car driver.

He should have been up against attempted murder charges or at the very least stripped of his superlicense.


I was disgusted to be a F1 fan that day, Surely the blackest of F1 moments




I rest my case.

If that was a case you would be laughed out of court.

I didn't see anyone else make the complete balls up that Vettle and Webber made of that, I'd say Webber and Vettle was trying to stick to closely to Lewis and panicked which caused there collision, perhaps in future they will drive a bit more carefully in the wet so they can finish 2nd and 3rd behind Lewis.

What did Webber do wrong exactly?

In the future, you mean like China '09?

Juan Pablo Montoya comes to mind...

Montoya was very aggressive, but in my opinion fair. He just caught out a few drivers with his daring moves, and this caused a bit of friction. Which is what he is supposed to do, it's not "after you, mate". It's supposed to be racing.


Cooper

May i direct your attention to the Japanese Grand Prix 2007. It was the scene of the most dirty, sneeky and downright dangerous driving in the sports 59 year History.

No hyperbole there.

It's easier said then having been through a whole career in positions of responsibility and being the man to beat.

With Schumacher, 1991-2006, and now 2010 to??, he has had the biggest success, which meant more responsibility as championship contender, more positions to defend, more need to attack, if your too soft, your not trying hard enough, if your too rough, your dangerous, but there are examples of many drivers doing damergous thingd and antiics, but not many drivers or no driver really can claim to have had success without those moments of how that could be dangerous, racing is not having a cup of tea, its meant to be dangerous, were talking about tenths at high speed, breaking distances are a difficult challenge with today's efficient breaks, anyone trying to overtake and geting it wrong, at these high speeds can easily be a villian in one race, and a hero in another.

With respect, I'd submit that you have laid that out backwards.
First, for many years of his career Schumacher had the best car. That's part of the game, of course, but the greater the car advantage, the lesser the need for misplaced aggression in driving it.
Second, as Schumacher usually qualified well, he was less in need than most were of making up places. Less often than most he found himself in the middle of a crowd.
Furthermore, at least since he won, say, his 4th WDC, he was in no possible sense an up-and-comer desperate to keep his seat and make a name for himself. Sure, there is pressure to maintain one's success, but it is nothing like the pressure to achieve success in the first place.
Finally, a champion is expected to set an example of proper conduct. That is, he is expected to act like a champion, not like a duck-and-diver. This was why Schumacher's earlier conduct was less unacceptable than some of his later stunts were.

It is true, as others have alluded, that his conduct was more often visible to us, both because he was usually in contention and because of the longevity of his career. Perhaps someone else was just as bad or worse, but we were unable to observe much of him.

Kobayahi is not aggressive. He is simply inexperienced.

Shameless and disgraceful driving by Alonso. As usual.

I'd say montoya is pretty fearless and agressive. just think how he was banging wheels with Michael Andretti at 230+ fighting for a win at michigan, knowing full well what the consequences of a mistake would mean for him or Andretti.

Shameless and disgraceful driving by Alonso. As usual.

Was it that bad?
You couldn't tell from the clip whether Heidfeld had gone a bit wide in error and left the door open, but then was able to bring the car back down to the apex, or Alonso had outbraked himself. Either is as plausible as Alonso's having tried injudiciously to force his way in - probably more so, in that with those conditions, Alonso cannot possibly have thought that Heidfeld would know exactly where he, Alonso, was.
In the end, Alonso didn't have the position, so the collision was his responsibility, but I don't know that it was "shameless and disgraceful".

Schumacher's got previous on this. The young guns won't know what's hit them. Literally.