Fangio front to back
#1
Posted 06 April 2010 - 13:22
My question is did Fangio ever try out any rear engined grand prix cars after retirement and if so how did he fare?
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#2
Posted 06 April 2010 - 14:15
Guest drives
#3
Posted 06 April 2010 - 18:23
ZOOOM
#4
Posted 06 April 2010 - 23:00
They bought a few Brabhams, either Juniors or F3, small Brabhams anyway. He travelled to England to have them ceremonially handed over, and for some reason it was determined that it was okay for him to jump into one of the cars and have a few laps.
Tie blowing in the breeze, apparently, and I think he had no helmet on either, he was lapping at good speeds and he didn't come in when they called him either.
So he was capable of driving a pretty small rear engined car. That he was still driving as quick as he was when I saw him in 1978 leads me to believe he could have done the job nicely.
#5
Posted 07 April 2010 - 02:22
About 1963 or 1964 was involved with some kind of a driver training or scholarship setup for drivers from his country...
They bought a few Brabhams, either Juniors or F3, small Brabhams anyway. He travelled to England to have them ceremonially handed over, and for some reason it was determined that it was okay for him to jump into one of the cars and have a few laps.
Tie blowing in the breeze, apparently, and I think he had no helmet on either, he was lapping at good speeds and he didn't come in when they called him either.
So he was capable of driving a pretty small rear engined car. That he was still driving as quick as he was when I saw him in 1978 leads me to believe he could have done the job nicely.
It was in 1965. A friend of him, Enrico Vannini, was involved in the 1966 Temporada Organisation and wanted to buy some F3 Brabhams for argentine drivers. Fangio did the contact and ease the operation. I remember the photo of Fangio with the car at Silverstone, and Dennis Hulme beside.
When he drove me in 1993, in his Mercedes-Benz, he put his chauffeur at his side and me in the back seat...
#6
Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:52
I would love to see pics of him in the Brabhams.
#7
Posted 07 April 2010 - 22:12
Originally posted by Isetta
Thanks for the replies everybody. I hope I did not impugne the great mans abilities as I'm sure he would have handled the first generation rear engined GP as well as anyone.....
Everyone else seemed to make the switch okay... or almost everyone...
Look at some who did: Maurice Trintignant, a pre-war driver who went on into the sixties and won a GP in a Cooper... Moss, who found them capable of giving him greater outlet for his finer skills... Brabham, who you might regard as an all-time rear engine driver, but who was first found in front engined cars and very quick in them too... Gurney and Phil Hill, descending from the front engined monsters of Ferrari into rear engined cars that gave them both GP wins. All of these drivers would undoubtedly reckon Fangio to be better than themselves, therefore just as capable of making the switch.
.....I just think that his great skills would have been neutralised by the later aero cars.....
Now you do tend to impugn...
Granted, coming through the era he had, then going to the aero era, there's more than a fair chance he would have hated them. But can you really say that a truly great driver such as Fangio was would be daunted by these cars. Especially had he been younger.
I saw him up close in 1978. He was still capable of driving right to the edge on an unfamiliar circuit and in a car of great potential. I was privileged to see and hear him just chirping the tyres as he brinked on the edge of losing adhesion under brakes at the end of the fastest straight... going into a fast corner too... just chirping them as he peeled off some speed at the last possible moment.
But had I not been really close, the vision was of someone relaxed and slowing gracefully as they lined up to enter the corner.
A man with that skill in his seventies would undoubtedly have coped with any device thrown at him in an effort to make a car quicker.
I would love to see pics of him in the Brabhams.
Agreed...
#8
Posted 08 April 2010 - 00:24
It was in 1965. A friend of him, Enrico Vannini, was involved in the 1966 Temporada Organisation and wanted to buy some F3 Brabhams for argentine drivers. Fangio did the contact and ease the operation. I remember the photo of Fangio with the car at Silverstone, and Dennis Hulme beside.
When he drove me in 1993, in his Mercedes-Benz, he put his chauffeur at his side and me in the back seat...
Not wanting to tell grand mother to suck eggs, but was it not Goodwood?
There are photos of Fangio in the car wearing goggles in ordinary suit and tie, but without helmet. Was he not within 1 second of the lap record or fastest practice lap on the day.
#9
Posted 08 April 2010 - 00:51
I don't think he did enough laps to get up to record speeds, did he? Though he didn't come in when they called him to, he still didn't do many laps.
I recalled all of this when, at that '78 meeting when Fangio and Brabham appeared at Sandown, Brabham said to me, "It gives you a lot of heart to see him drive like that at his age!"
Some years later, when Jack was 'his age', there was a gathering of Brabham cars and owners at a circuit in England... not Goodwood, I'm sure... and Jack got into one of the cars and went quicker than the owner. And he kept going when he was called in too...
#10
Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:11
Not wanting to tell grand mother to suck eggs, but was it not Goodwood?
There are photos of Fangio in the car wearing goggles in ordinary suit and tie, but without helmet. Was he not within 1 second of the lap record or fastest practice lap on the day.
Right, Goodwood.
#11
Posted 08 April 2010 - 12:08
I'm also sure it was Goodwood...
I don't think he did enough laps to get up to record speeds, did he? Though he didn't come in when they called him to, he still didn't do many laps.
I recalled all of this when, at that '78 meeting when Fangio and Brabham appeared at Sandown, Brabham said to me, "It gives you a lot of heart to see him drive like that at his age!"
Some years later, when Jack was 'his age', there was a gathering of Brabham cars and owners at a circuit in England... not Goodwood, I'm sure... and Jack got into one of the cars and went quicker than the owner. And he kept going when he was called in too...
As you get old, you don't lose your ability, just your ability to adapt...
#12
Posted 08 April 2010 - 12:11
I'm also sure it was Goodwood...
I don't think he did enough laps to get up to record speeds, did he? Though he didn't come in when they called him to, he still didn't do many laps.
I recalled all of this when, at that '78 meeting when Fangio and Brabham appeared at Sandown, Brabham said to me, "It gives you a lot of heart to see him drive like that at his age!"
Some years later, when Jack was 'his age', there was a gathering of Brabham cars and owners at a circuit in England... not Goodwood, I'm sure... and Jack got into one of the cars and went quicker than the owner. And he kept going when he was called in too...
I was stunned to find out on Wikipedia (yes, i know...) the Jack Brabham compteted in a 6 hour race at the old Nurburgring in 1998, in a new shape VW Beetle 1.8 Turbo. He scored the fastest lap of the three drivers in the car at over an 83mph average. Jack was 72 at the time!! Once a racing driver, always a racing driver....
#13
Posted 09 April 2010 - 09:46
Now you do tend to impugn...
Granted, coming through the era he had, then going to the aero era, there's more than a fair chance he would have hated them. But can you really say that a truly great driver such as Fangio was would be daunted by these cars. Especially had he been younger.
I saw him up close in 1978. He was still capable of driving right to the edge on an unfamiliar circuit and in a car of great potential. I was privileged to see and hear him just chirping the tyres as he brinked on the edge of losing adhesion under brakes at the end of the fastest straight... going into a fast corner too... just chirping them as he peeled off some speed at the last possible moment.
But had I not been really close, the vision was of someone relaxed and slowing gracefully as they lined up to enter the corner.
A man with that skill in his seventies would undoubtedly have coped with any device thrown at him in an effort to make a car quicker.
Agreed...
Thanks again Ray, I certainly did not mean any disrespect, it was just my clumsy attempt to highlight the shift in ratio between driver and car inputs from then to now. I wish I had your gift for descriptive prose.
#14
Posted 09 April 2010 - 10:38
Mind you, being there took some effort at times. But once I'd seen the events the inspiration was there to properly describe them.
#15
Posted 09 April 2010 - 11:11
I think I'm just fortunate to have been in some very good places at the right time...
Mind you, being there took some effort at times. But once I'd seen the events the inspiration was there to properly describe them.
Somewhere in the Unearthed You tube thread (very long) there can be footage found (I hope, still) of Jack Brabham and Fangio having a race. Brabham in his Brabham, Fangio in a Mercedes (at least a car of his time). Brabham gave the win away, but still Fangio drove mighty hard...
EDIT:
Here it is...Fangio VS Brabham 1978!
Edited by Chezrome, 09 April 2010 - 11:13.
#16
Posted 09 April 2010 - 12:52
It's ludicrous to think this might have been a competitive race. Lap times of these cars were light years apart. At Zandvoort, for instance, Fangio's 1955 pole position time was ten seconds slower than Brabham's best race lap in '66.
But it was great to see both of them out there enjoying it all and showing the cars off. Fangio's, by the way, supposedly had a 3-litre engine in it that day.
#17
Posted 09 April 2010 - 13:45
Regards, GD
#18
Posted 10 April 2010 - 16:52