When men were men
#1
Posted 23 April 2010 - 22:41
As I was completing a Pau Grand Prix with my 1950-51 slot cars today, I discovered that it was the longest race I had ever run. 110 laps of a circuit with a lap time of a shade under 10 seconds. When I use my unique multiplying up method, I find that Ascari's winning time equates to well over three hours. It certainly was a hard, challenging 110 laps.
I looked up the real 1951 race and found that Villoresi won it with a time five minutes longer than my theoretical Ascari time.
This set me wondering how tiring that must have been to be winding a 4.5 litre Ferrari around those hairpins for well over three hours. Or was it? Surely much harder work than, say, Jim Clark winning there in 1963 in two and three-quarter hours with a 1.5 litre car. And how does it all compare with the physical effort of driving a modern F.1 car for half that time, with power steering, but huge g-forces etc etc etc.
So who were/are the REAL men? Or is it in fact, all of them.
(And PLEASE, no sheep jokes!)
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#2
Posted 23 April 2010 - 23:06
#3
Posted 24 April 2010 - 01:06
Steve
#4
Posted 24 April 2010 - 01:19
#5
Posted 24 April 2010 - 07:53
Maybe it's just me, but folly or not, I consider what Pierre Eugène Alfred Bouillin(Levegh) did at Le Mans in 1952 to be a real man man's effort......
to that.
Wasn't he driving for over 20 hours and leading when the car broke down
#6
Posted 24 April 2010 - 08:21
The general view is that his tireness caused a bodged gear-change which wrecked the gearbox. True or not, it was a magnificent, but stupid attempt, which caused motor racing to change forever three years later.
#7
Posted 24 April 2010 - 08:22
Edited by Giraffe, 24 April 2010 - 08:23.
#8
Posted 24 April 2010 - 16:32
Didn't Chinetti drive something like 23 1/2 of the 24 hours at Le Mans in 1949 as Lord Selsdon was taken ill?
I suppose the question could be rephrased as "What was the most tiring circuit?"
Edited by D-Type, 24 April 2010 - 16:33.
#9
Posted 24 April 2010 - 17:13
Moss said that it took him longer to recover from the 1958 Nurburgring !,000kms, when he drove 36 of 44 laps, than it from the 1955 Mille Miglia. I suspect that Le Mans, especially in the 1940s, was leisurely in comparison.What about doing the Mille Miglia in an Alfa Romeo "Matta" (jeep)?
Didn't Chinetti drive something like 23 1/2 of the 24 hours at Le Mans in 1949 as Lord Selsdon was taken ill?
I suppose the question could be rephrased as "What was the most tiring circuit?"
It's also possible that Nuvolari was ready for a rest after the 1931 Targa Florio - nine hours without relief and not on the mickey mouse circuit used after the war either.
#10
Posted 24 April 2010 - 17:29
#11
Posted 24 April 2010 - 17:56
Thomas
Edited by thomaskomm, 25 April 2010 - 07:55.
#12
Posted 24 April 2010 - 21:35
In the past a fair amount of brawn was needed to handle a car these days a fair amount of fitness is required to withstand the G forces experienced on the corners and accelerating and equally braking.
I remember the first time i drove a formula first and used the brakes really hard I felt like my head was going to be ripped off and that after whizzing around all day in a lame by comparison XR3i !
Edited by arttidesco, 24 April 2010 - 21:35.
#13
Posted 24 April 2010 - 22:00
Otherwise, what about the Bol D'or? 24 hours with no driver changes?
#14
Posted 25 April 2010 - 02:51
#15
Posted 25 April 2010 - 07:14
Wrong way!Paris-Peking. 'nuff said.
#16
Posted 25 April 2010 - 13:56
#17
Posted 25 April 2010 - 23:50
What about doing the Mille Miglia in an Alfa Romeo "Matta" (jeep)?
Didn't Chinetti drive something like 23 1/2 of the 24 hours at Le Mans in 1949 as Lord Selsdon was taken ill?
I suppose the question could be rephrased as "What was the most tiring circuit?"
Lord Selsdon was not ill - he was drunk.
#18
Posted 26 April 2010 - 06:42
#19
Posted 26 April 2010 - 07:12
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#20
Posted 26 April 2010 - 08:45
Lord Selsdon was not ill - he was drunk.
Makes you proud to be British!
On the more serious point I would have thought the shorter twistier venues would have been the more tiring for the driver. These venues would have necessitated more laps to be completed to get up to the sort of race distances that were the norm.
#21
Posted 26 April 2010 - 09:25
DCN
#22
Posted 26 April 2010 - 09:27
#23
Posted 27 April 2010 - 14:20
Might I suggest a round of applause for the star drivers in the modern World Rally Championship? Against the present background of health & safety in all things, they give us all a proper sense of perspective... Certainly impress me, anyway.
DCN
I fully agree with that. I would add to the list the top drivers that participate each year in the Dakar Rally.
#24
Posted 27 April 2010 - 16:32
#25
Posted 27 April 2010 - 17:02
Edited by VAR1016, 27 April 2010 - 17:02.
#26
Posted 27 April 2010 - 19:36
As for GP/F1 competition , one would naturally assume that the equipment , or lack thereof , used in days of yore would certainly lend itself to a much higher test of manhood . The Italian GP of 1934 being a good example . Muscling those machines around for 4 & 3/4 hours is not something I would want to try , though most did split time with other drivers .
One thing that I believe can be said for the physical demands of F1/GP machinery was attested to by Michael Parkes in a story he did for Shell on the differences between F1 and sport car racing . That being the F1 cars require a higher degree of concentration , and the need to be "on it" at all times . He seemed to indicate that an F1 race was much more intense and deemanding than a long distance sport car competition , though I suppose it would be more mental than physical . Here are his words on the matter ,
Michael Parkes - This is most important in Formula 1 driving, which is a much more delicate and precise skill than driving a relatively heavy sports car. The Grand Prix car is a more sophisticated piece of machinery, designed to reach a relatively higher standard of performance, but which has to be driven closer to its ultimate limit over the full distance and duration of a race than does the two-seater … In Grand Prix races, which usually last only two hours, the pressure is on all the time, and you are having to drive that much closer to the knife-edge . … You have to produce a standard of skill very close to the maximum. Once you let your standard of driving fall off from this, the car’s performance drops off very rapidly indeed. In Grand Prix racing it marks the difference between a potential race-winner and an also-ran
http://s154140382.we...-1966-and-1967/
There is also Chris Amon's testimony , in an interview with Alan Henry I think , concerning the 1967 Monaco GP , held on a rather warm day and lasting around 2 & 1/2 hours , where he tells of becoming dehydrated in the car , to the point of becoming "cold" . He goes on to say he thinks that same thing happened to Bandini and caused a momentary lapse in concentration with caused Bandini's fatal collision .
And something must be said for 500 miles on a hot summer day in a close cockpit stockcar . Not a walk in the park either .
So , my point being , all racing has it's different challenges and they are all real men .
Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 27 April 2010 - 23:47.
#27
Posted 27 April 2010 - 19:46
#28
Posted 27 April 2010 - 19:47
She's more of a man than many to be fair to her (but not in that sense, Barry!)Even Danica Patrick????
#29
Posted 27 April 2010 - 19:50
She's more of a man than many to be fair to her (but not in that sense, Barry!)
She does have balls , I'll give her that .
#30
Posted 27 April 2010 - 23:47
The 1967 Monaco GP lasted just over 2 & 1/2 hours.
Correct . I don't know why I got 3 in there .