de Havilland Mosquito

If this has been mentioned before, apologies, but there is a close motor industry connection to the Mosquito too.

Hundreds of Mosquitos - 800 according to the records - were assembled by Standard in Coventry from 1943 to 1945, most of them then being flown out of Ansty aerodrome (east of the city) for the first time.

Details ? It's all in my STANDARD book, which was published in 2011.

GRAHAM

A few of us are going to the Salisbury Hall museum late october if anyone else is interested

A few of us are going to the Salisbury Hall museum late october if anyone else is interested

Please keep me posted on a date once decided, Richard (though I'll be in Foreign Parts for the 25/26/27 weekend).

On Mastermind today, BBC2 8pm, a contestant has the Mosquito as his specialised subject.

David

On Mastermind today, BBC2 8pm, a contestant has the Mosquito as his specialised subject.

 

David

I'm thinking I should be able to answer as many as he can - it's easier at home out of the spotlight, of course.

ETA the poor fellow suffered badly from the black chair/spotlight effect and only got 8 - and suffered similarly in the second part.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 06 January 2017 - 21:21.

Growing up Las Vegas back in the '50s, I and several of my friends used to hike over to the nearby airport just to watch flight operations that included both commercial and general aviation. One day we had wandered off to a less busy area of the field and there, parked far away from any other aircraft, was a plane the likes of which we had never seen. When we got back home, one my friends mentioned what we had seen to his older brother, who got out a book on WWII planes and pointed to a picture. Is that it? he asked. It was a Mosquito. Back at the airport the next day, we just had to get a closer look and easily climbed over a very low fence. Closer inspection revealed two things: it wasn't covered in dust so it hadn't been there long; and there was a good-sized hole in the fuselage just forward of the tail assembly. That hole was just big enough for small boys to wiggle through without getting snagged by jagged edges in the plywood. We made our way forward and by getting on someone's shoulders could pull ourselves up into the two seats. Our adventure came to an end when someone from the airport arrived and ordered us out. We asked the man why the plane was there and he said it was being used for aerial mapping work when something went "Boom" and they just managed to get it back down safely. It stayed there for what seemed like a couple of years and then it was gone.

I don't know but it is worth remembering that RR developed the Merlin to over 2000hp for the Hornet.

Was there ever any thought of fitting Griffons to the Mosquito?

Funnily enough, I was thinking about that a while back and did some hunting around on the subject, but couldn't find anything conclusive; I think the outcome would have been too little gain for too much pain.

Was there ever any thought of fitting Griffons to the Mosquito?

There were thoughts of it, but it never happened. Even that was only considered an interim version, with the ultimate aim being to fit Napier Sabres on what became the Hornet and Sea Hornet - which as wolseley680 says were quite adequately powered by developed Merlins. It's apparently covered briefly in the book 'British Secret Projects: Fighters and Bombers 1935-50' by Tony Buttler (Midland Publishing 2004 ISBN 1857801792) which, given the prices being asked for it, you might want to get from a library!

I don't know but it is worth remembering that RR developed the Merlin to over 2000hp for the Hornet.

I remember Cameron Millar - the Maserati 250F 'reconstructor' - reminiscing about flying the De Havilland Hornet in service, I think in Malaya. He told me it was a simply FABULOUS flying machine - a real Formula 1/dragster of the skies....

DCN

Anyone fancy a flight in a Mosquito?  (apologies if this link has already been posted) 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rGfQQWOsoB8

Growing up Las Vegas back in the '50s, I and several of my friends used to hike over to the nearby airport just to watch flight operations that included both commercial and general aviation. One day we had wandered off to a less busy area of the field and there, parked far away from any other aircraft, was a plane the likes of which we had never seen. When we got back home, one my friends mentioned what we had seen to his older brother, who got out a book on WWII planes and pointed to a picture. Is that it? he asked. It was a Mosquito. Back at the airport the next day, we just had to get a closer look and easily climbed over a very low fence. Closer inspection revealed two things: it wasn't covered in dust so it hadn't been there long; and there was a good-sized hole in the fuselage just forward of the tail assembly. That hole was just big enough for small boys to wiggle through without getting snagged by jagged edges in the plywood. We made our way forward and by getting on someone's shoulders could pull ourselves up into the two seats. Our adventure came to an end when someone from the airport arrived and ordered us out. We asked the man why the plane was there and he said it was being used for aerial mapping work when something went "Boom" and they just managed to get it back down safely. It stayed there for what seemed like a couple of years and then it was gone.

Would that have been this Mosquito?

Former Mark Hurd Mapping Co. Mosquito N37878 was reported damaged when a pressure cylinder exploded while on the ground at McCarran Intl. on Sep. 13, 1952. The color photo is dated by the photographer's son to July 25, 1956.

T J

Edited by TJJohansen, 17 January 2017 - 20:14.

Wonder if we will see one at the Revival one year ...

going along with the posts by Gary jarlson and TJ Johansen, I remember my uncle, who flew P-51s during the war, telling me about half a dozen Mosquitos lined up on the apron at Oshawa Airport (aprox. 30 miles east of Toronto) in the 1950's could be had for $1000 apiece.

I have some photos, one of which shows a mosquito, I believe these might have been used for photo mapping. other photos at Oshawa show P-38s, PBY Catalinas, B-17s etc. all I believe used for the same purpose, these would all have been in the mid to late 1950s.

redundant  military aircraft put to peace time use.

going along with the posts by Gary jarlson and TJ Johansen, I remember my uncle, who flew P-51s during the war, telling me about half a dozen Mosquitos lined up on the apron at Oshawa Airport (aprox. 30 miles east of Toronto) in the 1950's could be had for $1000 apiece.

 

I have some photos, one of which shows a mosquito, I believe these might have been used for photo mapping. other photos at Oshawa show P-38s, PBY Catalinas, B-17s etc. all I believe used for the same purpose, these would all have been in the mid to late 1950s.

 

redundant  military aircraft put to peace time use.

Kenting Aviation of Toronto bought several Mosquito's. Selling them off to Spartan Air Services of Ottawa some years later. Both companies used them as photo mappers as well as several P-38s. Kenting also did have two B-17s and (I think) some PBY's. Any chance of seeing the photos of those planes? I have kind of an interest in the civilian use of these "birds" post-war.

T J

Kenting Aviation of Toronto bought several Mosquito's. Selling them off to Spartan Air Services of Ottawa some years later. Both companies used them as photo mappers as well as several P-38s. Kenting also did have two B-17s and (I think) some PBY's. Any chance of seeing the photos of those planes? I have kind of an interest in the civilian use of these "birds" post-war.

 

T J

Would that have been this Mosquito?

 

 

Former Mark Hurd Mapping Co. Mosquito N37878 was reported damaged when a pressure cylinder exploded while on the ground at McCarran Intl. on Sep. 13, 1952. The color photo is dated by the photographer's son to July 25, 1956.

 

T J

That's it. The hole we used for access was on the other side of the fuselage. I don't know where the photos were taken because when we discovered it, the plane was parked all by itself, far from any buildings. While the color photo is dated in July, the B&W one appears to have been taken in the winter. Just to the right of the tail section, there is snow on that mountain. A very minor nitpick: McCarran Airport didn't receive its"international" designation until sometime in the mid-'60s. Thanks for the memories.

group7:

Tried contacting you through your e-mail and PM. Still interested in these planes!

best regards,

T J

I remember Cameron Millar - the Maserati 250F 'reconstructor' - reminiscing about flying the De Havilland Hornet in service, I think in Malaya. He told me it was a simply FABULOUS flying machine - a real Formula 1/dragster of the skies....

 

DCN

The late (and legendary) Capt Eric "Winkle" Brown expressed the same opinion in one of his books and several interviews, stating the Sea Hornet was his favourite piston-engine aircraft.

(apologies for lack of reference but the book is at home and I'm not!)

Late golfing friend worked for de-Havilland in Aust. during and after the war and loved talking about their Aircraft after he had a couple of beers.

https://en.wikipedia...avilland_Hornet

Edited by Ian G, 30 May 2017 - 04:27.

Not sure if this clip's been posted - a Mozzie getting some air in NZ last year!!

https://www.bing.com...95BA4&FORM=VIRE

Not sure if this clip's been posted - a Mozzie getting some air in NZ last year!!

 

https://www.bing.com...95BA4&FORM=VIRE

There isseveral clips about the resto and flights on You Tube.

It is mechanical so interests me though I am not really an aircraft enthusiast.

I saw replica Spit and Hurricane yesterdat at the Battle of Britain memorial near Dover. look the part until you get close.

Edited by Sharman, 30 May 2017 - 21:25.

group7:

 

Tried contacting you through your e-mail and PM. Still interested in these planes!

 

best regards,

 

T J

TJ the Kenting Aviation photos went out to your e-mail on the 27th. sorry for the delay .

Mike

Seems to have long-range tanks. Maybe a PR one?

Edited by Odseybod, 21 April 2022 - 21:57.

Seems to have long-range tanks. Maybe a PR one?

Don't think so, a PR Mossie would never have had a bomb aimer nose, though the nose and possible lack of armament might suggest a Pathfinder

A remarkable photo; it gives a very good perspective of the huge propellors required to absorb the horsepower of powerful piston aero engines.

Don't think so, a PR Mossie would never have had a bomb aimer nose, though the nose and possible lack of armament might suggest a Pathfinder

As originally specified, the Mosquito was an unarmed bomber so there's nothing unusual about the aeroplane in the photo.

The Mosquito doesn't seem to be too badly damaged and the propellors appear not to have been turning when it landed.  It would probably fly again,

As originally specified, the Mosquito was an unarmed bomber so there's nothing unusual about the aeroplane in the photo.

Quite right Allan.  As a general rule, bombers had the clear glazed nose (for the bomb aimer), fighters, night fighters and fighter-bombers had solid noses.  PR seems to be glazed nose, so that could be a PR version but based on numbers produced is more likely to be a bomber.  Having said that, I have a photo of a B mkXX which seems to have a solid nose, so generalisations have to be treated with a degree of caution.

If you find yourself in Lincolnshire check out the museum at East Kirkby Airfield where they have a Mosquito and Lancaster under restoration. Great place to spend a few hours.

I have a photo of a B mkXX which seems to have a solid nose, so generalisations have to be treated with a degree of caution.

. . . as do captions, particularly on t'internet. This is said to be a BXX

Edited by Allan Lupton, 22 April 2022 - 10:33.

Yes, that looks like a fighter/FB nose, but you'd need to see if there were cannon muzzle troughs under the entry door.  The B XX was a Canadian version of the B IVii which did not have armament, but maybe the Canadians did things their way - though Sharp/Bowyer make no reference to B XX armament t(that I could find)..

From the Sharp/Bowyer book 'Mosquito'.  A closer read of that reveals that the nose of that aircraft contained H2S, the radar navigation/bombing aid.  Those look like regular 500 pounders to me, rather than TIs but 

Camouflage rules out it being a PR aircraft?

Camouflage rules out it being a PR aircraft?

Quite right Allan. As a general rule, bombers had the clear glazed nose (for the bomb aimer), fighters, night fighters and fighter-bombers had solid noses. PR seems to be glazed nose, so that could be a PR version but based on numbers produced is more likely to be a bomber. Having said that, I have a photo of a B mkXX which seems to have a solid nose, so generalisations have to be treated with a degree of caution.

How have I just learned that we have an entire thread dedicated to my favourite WW2 aeroplane?

There's also one at the De Havilland museum on the back road between South Mimms and London Colney at the A1 M25 junction.

Recent pictures of the three Mosquitoes at the de Havilland Museum.

1940 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito Prototype W4050:

1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito B.Mk.35 Bomber:

1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito FB Mk.VI Fighter Bomber:

Attached is one of my favourite photos taken by member "Bakeryman" of his Elite, chassis number 1008 at the museum some years ago.

https://i.postimg.cc...5-crop-copy.jpg

Watching a Fantasy of Flight  You Tube video [Kermit Weeks] last night re unboxing a Lancaster they discovered  a wooden frame on one of the canopies. Got me thinking about wooden aeroplanes. How do restore then maintain a large laminated wood aeroplane?? 

Weeks owns one that is in a museum, complete and I believe was flying when he started his collection 30 years ago. I understand the mechanical maintenance but the airframe? I suspect a very finite life. The WW1 planes were far simpler to build and again on Fantasy of Flight take a huge amount of restoration

How many are flying?  One in NZ. Others?

The Lancaster is comparitively simple as it is metal. And they take years!

The fighters are easier as there is far less of them. 

People maintain 100 year-old old wooden launches, yachts and dinghies, and they spend some of their time sopping wet...

The Shuttleworth Collection has been preserving, restoring and maintaining wooden-framed aircraft since the 1930s. Including a Blériot XI, built in 1909, which is the oldest airframe still flying. There's another of those at Old Rhinebeck in the US, also still flying, but the Shuttleworth one is three weeks older and still has its original engine. Shuttleworth also has a Deperdussin Type A, a Blackburn Type D and three Great War fighters - a Brisfit, an Avro 504K and an SE5A - plus a 1920-built Sopwith Pup trainer. All airworthy.

As with wooden boats, the trick is just to continually maintain them and treat the wood regularly. Leave them in a barn and they'll rot, become homes for rats, mice or woodworm ...

If you keep a wooden airframe in a hangar out of the weather they can last indefinitely. Back in the day the exterior was covered with cotton, linen, or synthetic fabric and then coated with colored nitrate or butyrate dope, which dries to a plastic-like coating. Sometimes the fabric layer was what was known as "balloon cloth" which was very lightweight and rubberized, adding that much more weather protection. All internal surfaces need varnish coating and no part of the design can be completely closed off or boxed in, so any condensation will have a chance to evaporate. Drain holes need to be incorporated so water cannot pool in low spots. Wood is a superb material for airframes though in recent times it's been out of favor. Wood has no fatigue life so cycling and reversing loads fed into a wood element will have no effect as long as the yield point is not exceeded. As soon as any vibration or loading begins on an aluminum element, it's on its way to failure - eventually. Restoring an airframe built like the Mosquito's can be a lot of work, but none of the tasks involved are particularly difficult. It's kind of like painting - the time spent on preparing can take a lot longer than the actual painting, all the prepwork becomes invisible in the results, but the goodness of the result is totally dependent on the prep work.

Modern coating materials and epoxy adhesives allow wooden airframes to resist weather damage much better than the products used in thw WWII era. But the concerns about long term durability persist, mostly framed by the weather damage problems of the past. Personally I love working with wood for airframes and I absolutely despise working with riveted aluminum.