Top Gear - Veyron and speed record

Short video of Caracciola in the 3l.

Yes, Rosemeyer and Caracciola both ran at about 430km/h in January 1938. I didn't see the Veyron, but was this a straight track? There was a slight curve on the Frankfurt-Darmstadt Autobahn, so that - combined with less than perfect aerodynamics etc - restricted speeds a little. Had the Dessau section been ready by then, I think perhaps they could have run at about 450. The record cars never got the chance to run at Dessau with their biggest engines though: Caracciola managed a whisker under 400km/h there with a 3 litre engine in 1939.

Yes, the Veyron was on a straight track, actually the straight of a huge oval; the main VW test track. Not sure where it is.

Looking at the Top Gear segment, it might have made a nice film to make the link back to 1938 and the Auto Union, given the common heritage in that the Bugatti is VW/Audi engineered. Nice for TNF contributors anyway

On the historical link, Top Gear's failure to make any connection rather surprised me as well, what an opportunity missed. I think that fairly good Senna tribute was the first thing of its kind they've ever done though, so maybe they're planning to gradually introduce the concept of history to their audience, many of whom must have been shocked to discover that 'Effwun' even existed in the days before Michael Schumacher.

The track is actually no oval but a long straight with two wide u-turns.

It clearly is an oval, though a rather squashed one, possibly inspired by the old AVUS in Berlin. How could it not be an oval, you wouldn't want to meet anything coming the other way on that straight.

looking back it is so obvious that Senna was simply something else entirely.

Puts into perspective the WM teams attempts to reach 400 km/h at Le Mans on the pre chicane Mulsanne Straight back in the 1980's I remember on one occasion they put out a call on the tannoy to borrow some PRV V6 distributor parts from spectators so that they could complete their attempt :-)

Yes, fortunately the TG piece reminded us that Senna was a psychopath who was fully capable of risking the death or injury of another driver if necessary to get his way. I prefer my heroes to be heroic so I will stick with Gilles thank you.

Edited by kayemod, 27 July 2010 - 12:54.

Edited by Tim Murray, 27 July 2010 - 13:09.

The Veyron Supersport and the 'standard' Veyron are both awesome pieces of machinery, and 267 mph is definately nothing to be sniffed at, even more so considering they are road cars, as Hamish said.

However a racing car is a racing car, and the WM got close to that speed with a straight that was a mile shorter at least, didn't have a 125mph banked corner preceeding it, had a crown along the centre of the road, was only two lanes wide, and the car itself had at least 400 horsepower less than the Veyron...

I would love to see the Veyron in competition to see what it could do on the track but I guess it would be strangled to half of its power output by GT1 or similar rules.

I agree absolutely with BRG and Rob. Senna, followed by Schumacher, set the driving standard in F1 at a new low that all those who have come after them now feel is the norm and perfectly acceptable. I can never forgive them for that.

Well...

The Top gear guys once had the Stig running a Veyron on their track and it was then `only` the fourth fastest car ever on their track, despite its claimed 1001 hp making it the strongest car ever on the track. For racing purposes the Veyron is simply entirely unsuitable since it is way too heavy and it is difficult to lighten it so much that it becomes a useful racing tool after all.

I recall that I have read somewhere (Bugatti experts can correct me...) that the engine and driveline alone was some 575 kgs!!
So even it it was strangled to, say some 600 hp or so (that is about GT1 and GTP level), then it still has to move around way too much weight to make it a decent race car.
The bug is, as far as I'm concerned, vell suited to leave everyting behind in a straight line and on highways with only very smooth highspeed turns.But if it comes to track racing it is left behind by anumber of other supercars that are built with a bit more sense than Piëch's obsession to have a car that's faster than 400 km/h.

Henri

Well on Sunday the SS version took the TG absolute track record. However I would expect over ten laps it would have trashed its tyres compared to a lighter car. The Veyron is an amazing feat of engineering but I agree that it could never be a race car.

Having said that, I would pay good money to see a Veyron one-make series race around the classic tracks of the world:)

I agree absolutely with BRG and Rob. Senna, followed by Schumacher, set the driving standard in F1 at a new low that all those who have come after them now feel is the norm and perfectly acceptable. I can never forgive them for that.

They started the snowball rolling down the hill, but I think 90% of the blame lies with the generation of stewards and clerks of the course who didn't crack down on this behaviour at every level of racing. Your average F3 race is multiple times more savage than a Grand Prix. It gets so bad sometimes you can only laugh at the chaos.

They started the snowball rolling down the hill, but I think 90% of the blame lies with the generation of stewards and clerks of the course who didn't crack down on this behaviour at every level of racing. Your average F3 race is multiple times more savage than a Grand Prix. It gets so bad sometimes you can only laugh at the chaos.

OK, I hadn´t seen that yet, I´m not British..
But theres a big problem left for a Veyron race± They will be sprint events.
The old Veyron, when driven at 407 km-h emptied its fuel tanks in 12 minutes and I can´t imagine that it being driven on a track will be capable of racning for much longer then half an hour or thereabout.
If spriint racing is your game it may be fun but otherwise...
henri

Oops....
Do we give those two villains the honor of letting a thread about the Veyron to derail?


Henri

I agree, we shouldn't be discussing Senna & Scumacher's ethics in this thread, but BRG started it by marching on Poland...

BRG started it by marching on Poland...

Edited by BRG, 27 July 2010 - 16:25.

How can one possibly 'derail' a thread on something so appallingly ugly and technically useless as the Veyron from 'Bugatti'????

DCN

How can one possibly 'derail' a thread on something so appallingly ugly and technically useless as the Veyron from 'Bugatti'????
DCN

Now as for the questionable racing ethics of Schumacher and Senna, now that's worthy of a thread in itself. Then again, maybe there is one already:)

...a gloriously pointless sector of human activity...chasing one another round in circles.

DCN

Edited by Phil Rainford, 27 July 2010 - 19:53.

Interesting juxtaposition there...

Bristol.

Style??

DCN

How can one possibly 'derail' a thread on something so appallingly ugly and technically useless as the Veyron from 'Bugatti'????

DCN

Say, if someone wanted to enter a Veyron at LeMans, what class would it run in?

Edited by Henri Greuter, 28 July 2010 - 10:34.

I wonder what speed they have actually tested it to?

Say, if someone wanted to enter a Veyron at LeMans, what class would it run in?

Even if it ran in it's own Veyron Class at Le Mans it would guzzle petrol and chew it's tyres up so fast as to be completely un competitive with anything else.

The Veyron is a hairdressers boulevard cruiser something to be seen in, all show despite its impressive edge of technology capabilities its really only usefull for impressing your friends down at the McDonalds drive thru :-)

I suspect in a flat out race with even a relatively pedestrian Porsche 911 from Munich to Hamburg the Bugatti would be so busy refuelling at every service station en route the Porsche would easily arrive first.