Your Top Seven Drivers of 2010 - part IV (final standings)

I wonder whether kubica benefits from having a strong fan base but not as many 'haters' as vettel, alonso and hamilton.

I find it difficult to understand how those 4 aren't level pegging because I find it difficult to understand how anyone could put them outside the top 7 drivers.

Either bias is coming into play or some people have a depth of knowledge re: the relative performance of the different cars and how drivers have performed in them in each race that allows them to understand that, for example, 7 drivers performed better than hamilton this year.

It must be the haters that put the top drivers outside the seven. Looks like Kubica has less haters than others, however they seem to be very vocal on this BB
Seems to me the results of this poll are a measure of the bias here, rather than what it's title says.

I love the fact you've created a poll and then comment on it as if there is a 'correct' list you are comparing it to.

Again, bias. There is no correct list I am comparing it to, I am comparing it to my own list, hence the comments. As this is a BB, everyone is entitled to give their comments, even the originator of the poll. That does not mean that his comments have any more meaning than anyone elses, in fact, they are as subjective as everyone elses.

Kubica regadred as the best 3rd time in a row

That's not what the poll asked or tells

What it tells is that he's the top 7 driver with the least voices lost from hurr durr derp derp fanboys.

yeah, but it seems that people voted their favourite drivers anyway. Some people think that Liuzzi and de la Rosa were top7

and the results are numeral, instead of dividng them on yes/no categories (belongs to top7 / doesn't belong to top7)

all in all Kubica has number 1 by his name

Edited by Asconte, 06 December 2010 - 17:04.

On subject of Kubica, maybe voting results on this BB merely indicates what local demographics of present fan base is, because several factors on Kubica's performance and what kind of driver is he are clouding the issue.

A few observations;

1. Petrov is a novice and hardly good test for judging a teammate (re: Vettel v. Webber)
2. Renault was faster car than RBR. In a straight line, anyway; meaning - it was not a complete dud as some thought about it, and good results were possible with it.
3. Competition to Renault had far too many technical issues which lowered their scores.

Kubica scored consequently high, but let him first to repeat it next year, when field gets healthy, before we draw any further conclusions.

Edited by zawisza, 06 December 2010 - 21:15.

On subject of Kubica, maybe voting results on this BB merely indicates what local demographics of present fan base is, because several factors on Kubica's performance and what kind of driver is he are clouding the issue.

A few observations;

1. Petrov is a novice and hardly good test for judging a teammate (re: Vettel v. Webber)
2. Renault was faster car than RBR. In a straight line, anyway; meaning - it was not a complete dud as some thought about it, and good results were possible with it.
3. Competition to Renault had far too many technical issues which lowered their scores.

Kubica scored consequently high, but let him first to repeat it next year, when field gets healthy, before we draw any further conclusions.

I like specially the bold bit. You'd better check backmarkers' data http://www.fia.com/e...d-race-trap.pdf before suggesting the conclusion F1 is about straightline speed.

Ad1. Ok.

Ad2. . No, it wasn't 'a complete dud'. It was just as good as Kubica's results.

Ad3. I don't know what competition do you have in mind.

BTW, it's not like Kubica didn't have any 'technical issues' (Silverstone- possible top 5 finish; Suzuka- possible top 2 finish).

Wasn't the field healthy already this year? Some say it was the healthiest field of all time.

Edited by Asconte, 06 December 2010 - 21:25.

I do not understand your response. I did say that Renault (car) was faster in a speed trap fo straightline speed, and your link merely confirms what I have stated; so, what's the problem? Renault in my opinion, at least in second part of the season, wasn't a bad car.

Nowhere in my post I suggested that F1 is all about a straightline speed. If that's what you deduced from my notes, then that would be incorrect.

I would be not so quick to agree with you. What I heard all year around was, that this was one of the most competitive seasons if recent memory, and I do agree with that. From other perspective however I am not so sure. Weather, tires, and reliability issues distorted final (scoring) results perhaps more than I would have liked to see.

No, he is regarded as Top 7 driver by most of the voters.
If someone made a poll for a top driver, I'm sure HAM/VET/ALO would win.

Some call that distortion, others - spicing up the show. Don't forget that weather, tires and reliability issues have always been a problem for drivers. There has not been a single season when tires, weather or reliability issues didn't distort final results. I would dare to say that in the past results used to be distorted even more (just look at dnf ratios from the past) than now.

On subject of Kubica, maybe voting results on this BB merely indicates what local demographics of present fan base is, because several factors on Kubica's performance and what kind of driver is he are clouding the issue.

A few observations;

1. Petrov is a novice and hardly good test for judging a teammate (re: Vettel v. Webber)
2. Renault was faster car than RBR. In a straight line, anyway; meaning - it was not a complete dud as some thought about it, and good results were possible with it.
3. Competition to Renault had far too many technical issues which lowered their scores.

Kubica scored consequently high, but let him first to repeat it next year, when field gets healthy, before we draw any further conclusions.

It´s quite interesting that Kubica wins out on Hamilton on a BB that is British-based. Either the Poles have a real strong presence here, or the British also appreciate Robert above all other drivers, or the international consensus has Kubica on top of everyone else.

I think that also Renault (Genii) is profiting from Kubica´s presence in the team - strong showing for the former works team. Wonder how that will continue with Lotus Renault versus Team Lotus. I cannot see how the Renault is faster than the RBR, in all honesty. 1)But you are right, the car is surely better than many thought, and that clouds also the comparison with last year´s Renault.

2)Your third point is much overlooked: Renault had probably the most reliable cars of the upper half of the grid.

It´s quite interesting that Kubica wins out on Hamilton on a BB that is British-based. Either the Poles have a real strong presence here, or the British also appreciate Robert above all other drivers, or the international consensus has Kubica on top of everyone else.

It´s quite interesting that Kubica wins out on Hamilton on a BB that is British-based.

At 395 votes Kubi is 4 votes ahead. 4! Not 40 or 400, so no need to get too excited and start drawing lots of conclusions .

Plus as had been extensively discussed, it's purely an artefact of the poll design (which is not very good).

Though for sure he is highly rated, by Brits even

Its a shame that we think this is even worth mentioning.... As for me, I dont car is RK is from Mars and LH is my childhood friend. IMO a good argument can be made that he did the best job last season.... why should anything else matter.

Indeed the battle between Kubica and Hamilton in this poll is even more spectacular then for WDC itself this year ;) There is always no more than 10 votes difference between them as they go head to head all the time. It just needs Murray Walker's comment on that

But still less than 400 is not enough votes. Poll after the season should have most votes so people, don't be shy and vote!

Whether nationality should matter isn't the point, the fact is it does matter.

Exactly...and its a shame it does matter IMO.

We have started to explore this question in the thread http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=100

I do not think it is a shame to like driver from your own country, as your country may have great sportsperson, so why should you not be allowed to like them. What is indeed mysterious is that here in the Top Seven Robert Kubica rules supreme over all other drivers, while in other relevant polls Kubica does not make it to the top.

That means, that Robert has definitely less enemies than all other drivers. Must be something in his cool and classy demeanor, not talking too much and not talking BS and delivering strongly on track, that makes most people around here inclined to include him in their Top Seven.

Edited by jjcale, 17 December 2010 - 19:02.

We have started to explore this question in the thread http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=100

I do not think it is a shame to like driver from your own country, as your country may have great sportsperson, so why should you not be allowed to like them. What is indeed mysterious is that here in the Top Seven Robert Kubica rules supreme over all other drivers, while in other relevant polls Kubica does not make it to the top.

That means, that Robert has definitely less enemies than all other drivers. Must be something in his cool and classy demeanor, not talking too much and not talking BS and delivering strongly on track, that makes most people around here inclined to include him in their Top Seven.

The poll ascertains who are the top 7 not who is the best, by rights the likes of Alonso, Lewis, Vettel and Kubica should all have the same amount of votes really so clearly some tactical voting has taken place

Good idea to have Murray Walker comment on the poll race! The poll race in which a Pole wins!!

What amazes me is that Alonso is not higher up in the poll, as he is surely at least on level with Kubica and Hamilton. Also Vettel went only up in the poll since he won the WDC (that is, in part IV only). Otherwise we might have seen him languishing in P5 or P6....

Yep, I agree, we have to get the poll to 500 votes - it seems that off-season really less people are frequenting the BB.
Thanks for the support, MrMonaco!

That means, that Robert has definitely less enemies than all other drivers. Must be something in his cool and classy demeanor, not talking too much and not talking BS and delivering strongly on track, that makes most people around here inclined to include him in their Top Seven.

I was actually curious if Alonso send a Cristmas gift to Kubica this year.

I like Kubica. Why? He never beats any of the drivers I like.

Its easy to cheer for the drivers in the fastest cars, smartpants

Edited by aditya-now, 19 December 2010 - 01:29.

Well, the poll shows otherwise. Vettel and Webber were in the fastest car this year, but people stayed loyal to Kubica and Hamilton throughout the year. I think Watkins74 just pointed to the fact that the reason why Kubica scores so highly is because he hasn´t seriously overshadowed any other star driver and thereby not attracted the scorn of the fans of said drivers. That´s why many people have him in their Top Seven.

Looking at http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 question three, we find Lewis leading the "favourite driver" category by far, Robert 26 behind Hamilton but just one vote ahead of Fernando, then Vettel and Schumacher (same number of votes, 11 votes behind Alonso) and then Button.

So indeed being nobody´s enemy helped in scoring highly in the Top Seven question, but http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 shows us that Robert Kubica has also the second largest fan base on the Atlas BB.

No, simply some of users do not consider all of drivers supposed to be top 7, as actual top 7. Some may think kobayashi did a better job than alonso for example, and thay have right to do so. Well, it would be boring if everyone thought the same, wouldn't it?

Edited by robefc, 19 December 2010 - 19:19.

Well, the poll shows otherwise. Vettel and Webber were in the fastest car this year, but people stayed loyal to Kubica and Hamilton throughout the year. I think Watkins74 just pointed to the fact that the reason why Kubica scores so highly is because he hasn´t seriously overshadowed any other star driver and thereby not attracted the scorn of the fans of said drivers. That´s why many people have him in their Top Seven.

Looking at http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 question three, we find Lewis leading the "favourite driver" category by far, Robert 26 behind Hamilton but just one vote ahead of Fernando, then Vettel and Schumacher (same number of votes, 11 votes behind Alonso) and then Button.

So indeed being nobody´s enemy helped in scoring highly in the Top Seven question, but http://forums.autosp...w...0047&st=100 shows us that Robert Kubica has also the second largest fan base on the Atlas BB.

I do not wish to suggest that you should undertake that reasearch on Sebastian history at F1, there is a better way to spend your time, I guess, but I do watch him since MSch retired (first time), and on couple of BBs I have noticed that he is now in his third year badly undermined or underrated by various fan-groups, who do defend Alonso/Hamilton/Webber/Kubica - you name it - at all cost. Minor issues are being blown out of proportions, and statistics diluted by irrelevant data. Point here is, yes he had fast car and he won, yet Webber had a the same car from the same design office, and he did not win. There is a narrow margin of performance, which only insiders probably know how to evaluate correctly.

I cannot susbtantiate my opinion with data, but I think that MSch, Alonso, Vettel and perhaps even Hamilton are breed appart from the rest of them. Circumstances in individual races made some individual performances season of 2010 little fuzzy, but on a long run that's the picture I envision.

Edited by aditya-now, 20 December 2010 - 01:11.

It´s interesting that you mention it, but Hamilton, Kubica, Alonso and possibly even Webber seem to have the strongest fan base on this BB - Schumacher has a few loyal and vocal fans, but in decline, and Vettel, given that he is reigning WDC, after all, has definitely not such a broad fan base as his success would warrant.

Is it because he drives Red Bull and is Dr.Helmut Marko´s chosen child? Is it because he is so unassuming and fresh? Or is indeed "the finger" reason enough for people to not like him as vastly as Schumacher was liked when he had just won his first WDC?

Edited by bimmeric, 20 December 2010 - 02:26.

It´s interesting that you mention it, but Hamilton, Kubica, Alonso and possibly even Webber seem to have the strongest fan base on this BB - Schumacher has a few loyal and vocal fans, but in decline, and Vettel, given that he is reigning WDC, after all, has definitely not such a broad fan base as his success would warrant.

Is it because he drives Red Bull and is Dr.Helmut Marko´s chosen child? Is it because he is so unassuming and fresh? Or is indeed "the finger" reason enough for people to not like him as vastly as Schumacher was liked when he had just won his first WDC?

Edited by Bonaventura, 20 December 2010 - 08:29.

ESPNf1's best drivers list:

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Robert Kubica
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Mark Webber
6. Nico Rosberg

Best rookie season - Kamui Kobayashi

On the ESPNF1 panel: Sir Stirling Moss (motor racing legend and ESPNF1 columnist), Sir Jackie Stewart (three-time world champion), Sir Frank Williams (nine-time constructors' champion), Gerard Lopez (RenaultF1's majority shareholder), Tonio Liuzzi (Force India race driver and ESPNF1 columnist), Sam Bird (GP2 race winner and ESPNF1 columnist), Mark Sutton (F1 photographer and ESPNF1 columnist), Martin Williamson (ESPN managing editor), Alex Livie (ESPN.co.uk editor), Laurence Edmondson (ESPNF1 deputy editor), Fraser Masefield (ESPNF1 contributor), Christian Isnard (CI Sport Agency, ESPNF1.fr editor), Daniel Bastien (ESPNF1.fr contributor), Jonathan Hungin (ESPN product manager), Deepak Gulati (ESPN content manager).

link: http://en.espnf1.com...tory/36480.html

Well for me it's because he's not exciting to watch. He's had a car capable of winning in his hands for 2 years now, and basically every time he's won a race he had the lead going into the first corner (exception Abu Dhabi 2009 where he inherited the lead after Hamilton's brake failure). He's VERY fast and there is no denying that, but he seriously has never won in an interesting way or in a race that looked particularly difficult. He's never passed anyone on track for a win or had to pull out a gap to make a pit strategy work, he's always won from being in 1st place after the first corner. Now I'm not saying it's not a skill to be able to dominate a weekend like Seb has shown a knack for, but I also want to see a driver take a win in a situation where it actually seems like a race not just a sunday drive in the fastest car and I have yet to see Vettel pull off a win when he actually had to fight for it.

Just my .02

Edited by Bonaventura, 22 December 2010 - 10:29.

F1 fanatic list
Part three 8-4 :
http://www.f1fanatic...part-three-8-4/

8. Rubens Barricello
7. Jenson Button
6. Mark Webber
5. Nico Rosberg
4. Robert Kubica


Now part 4:
http://www.f1fanatic...-part-four-3-1/
3. Sebastian Vettel
2. Fernado Alonso
1. Lewis Hamilton

"This year’s world championship was remarkable in that drivers from three different teams had cars that were good enough to win races. Picking the best driver – the fastest, the best racer, the one who beat a strong team mate, the most dependable – is inevitably subjective. The margins between the very best are razor-thin."