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Pre-war sprints and hillclimbs photos

Started by ratkinso , Nov 28 2010 18:29

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267 replies to this topic

#101 ratkinso

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 17:53

No idea on the Aston, but the fourth picture is Guy Campbell's Scuderia Joysticks Amilcar.


What an extraordinary coincidence - the next photos I was going to post are the only identified ones in the album - Berkhamsted Hill Climb: Dancer's End 5/5/35 (although the page is labelled April 1935) Times 33.4 and 33.2 - The Scuderia Joysticks - represented by J.E.Breyer (driver) and G.L.L.Gourley (owner and passenger) !!!!!

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Cheers,

Richard

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#102 David McKinney

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 18:49

This one like a BSA three-wheeler

Edited by David McKinney, 14 December 2010 - 18:50.

#103 ratkinso

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 18:55

More fun and games at Dancer's End March or April 1935:

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Cheers,

Richard

#104 bradbury west

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 21:34

I am toying with the idea that the first shot at Dancer's End is of an early variant of the 1930/34 Appleton Special
Roger Lund

#105 Stephen W

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:50

I am toying with the idea that the first shot at Dancer's End is of an early variant of the 1930/34 Appleton Special
Roger Lund


I thought it more like the BHW although once I saved the photo and lightened it I am now having second thoughts as the grill is too wide.

The car doesn't look small enough to me to be the Appleton Special plus there are major differences in frontal and cockpit areas.

:wave:

#106 Allan Lupton

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:26

I thought it more like the BHW although once I saved the photo and lightened it I am now having second thoughts as the grill is too wide.

The car doesn't look small enough to me to be the Appleton Special plus there are major differences in frontal and cockpit areas.

:wave:

BHW had Alvis ifs where this one has a beam axle. I don't think it's BHW size either, but I do think it's more Appleton sized.
Can't find a photo of the Appleton as it would have been in 1935 at present.

#107 bradbury west

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:42

That is my problem, Allan, I only have to hand the Bolster book shot and one from Prescott in '76. The absence of the perforated horizontal link to the alloy damper is not in the picture above, hence my thought that it might be an early iteration, more still Maserati than later, perhaps but that depends on by how much it was modified from the start. It looks to have fittings for twin rear wheels.
Roger Lund

#108 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:20

Kennel Bend at Shelsley is still recognizable. The track and hedge are much the same but the Orchard in the background have gone to form the car park and the last section of that iron fence (at this point anyway) was finally removed some years ago (there was still some on the apex of the bend in the mid 90s). Incident vehicles still park is almost the same spot as that car and caravan(?) you can see on the right.
Great photos from what I must say is a very unusual viewpoint. Can't recall seeing many/any from there before. Many thanks for posting

Thanks for posting those great Dancers End photos too. Not often you see anything from that venue.

I have a few snaps on file from the same bend but in 1938.

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R A Sumner (Patrick's Dad) in the Sumner JAP in September 1938

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T Sulman's Singer Special (also used as a Midget racer) I think this car was featured in VINTAGE RACECAR a couple of years ago .

#109 David McKinney

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 13:20

I'm in the Appleton camp

Apart from anything else, the BHW hadn't been dreamed up then :)

Tom Sulman took the Sulman-Singer to Australia after the War and used it on the road circuits (and in hillclimbs). I'm pretty sure it still turns out at historic meetings there (as someone will no doubt shortly point out).

Edited by David McKinney, 15 December 2010 - 22:53.

#110 ratkinso

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 14:09

T Sulman's Singer Special (also used as a Midget racer) I think this car was featured in VINTAGE RACECAR a couple of years ago .


Also annotated to car #17 in post #101 is:

Head, ports and induction system polished by Speedway Cars Ltd (T Sulman and S Davis)

Fitted with R.A.G. carburetter tuned by us

Cheers,

Richard

#111 bradbury west

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 14:20

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T Sulman's Singer Special (also used as a Midget racer) I think this car was featured in VINTAGE RACECAR a couple of years ago ....


And avery comprehensive article it was, too, IMHO. Vintage Racecar continues to prove highly satisfactory in my view.
Usual disclaimers
Roger lund

#112 john medley

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 20:17

Tom Sulman took the Sulman-Singer to Australia after the War and used it on the road circuits (and in hillclimbs). I'm pretty sure it still turns out at historic meetings there (as someone will no doubt shortly point out)


David,
Yes
JM

PS most recently at Eastern Creek Tasman meeting earlier this month

#113 Sharman

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:28

How rewarding to get such enthusiastic feedback, and yes, I do have a few more. The quality isn't too good, but it just seems remarkable to have any images at all from so long ago. Here are three really interesting pages preserved locked away for all this time. I love rule #14!

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Cheers,

Richard


What a nice Christmas surprise
I have just had a letter from one of the race winners in the above results sheets, together with a photograph of the car Piglet (I still have not worked out how to post photos) which was an Austin 7 single seat special registered DW9378
The drivers and joint owners were R.W. (Roderick Wilfred) "Bill" de Selincourt and Rupert Orlebar (qv Rabelro) who were old school friends. Bill says that the racing was on grass and he remembers it as being lots of fun.

#114 David McKinney

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:41

Today I learned that Bill de Selincourt wasn't William :cool:

#115 ratkinso

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 11:58

The next meeting attended was Shelsley in June 1935. Quite a few really interesting paddock shots as well as some action:

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Cheers,

Richard

#116 fuzzi

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 12:20

No. 1 looks like one of Dick Nash's Frazer Nash single-seaters, possibly the Union Special. No.4 is of course Bloody Mary.

The Bugatti looks like a Type 37, but with the bulge on the offside of the bonnet could it be the Cholmondley-Tapper car? There appears to be a blonde head beyond the bloke in the trilby and that might be Eileen Ellison. :wave:

Edited by fuzzi, 17 December 2010 - 12:23.

#117 Sharman

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 15:49

Today I learned that Bill de Selincourt wasn't William :cool:


:blush: Actually David I have known him for well over 50 years and I only learned that fact this year, apparently his Nanny did not like the name Wilfred and decided to call him Bill whilst he was still in the nursery.

#118 ratkinso

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 18:02

A few more paddock shots from Shelsley June 1935:

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Any IDs very welcome!

Cheers,

Richard

#119 David McKinney

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 19:50

Second pic - Bloody Mary (obviously :) )

Possibly again in the No.19 stall in the third pic. Next to it is a sports Alta, then what looks like a Monza Alfa except for a funny grille, then a couple of specials I should recognise but can't...

Bottom is the Alta shared by P N Whitehead and P D C Walker

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#120 Dutchy

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 12:34

Is the man with the 'tache next to the Bugatti in the top picture Jack Lemon Burton?

I don't think car 19 in the bottom picture is "Mary" - it surely has the wrong tail. It looks like an early iteration of the Parker GN but I don't know any history before Thirlby had it.

Could number 21 be one of the Skinner Minors? It looks like a Morris radiator to me

#121 Geoff E

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 13:00

21 and 20 are the cars shown in the fourth photo. At least one of them has been moved but the "guy ropes" behind can be seen in both pictures.

The date of the event was actually 18 May 1835 and Whitney Straight had announced his retirement following his recent marriage, his Maserati having being bought by Harry Rose.

#122 David McKinney

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 13:30

Confess I didn't look too closely at car 19

Isn't 21 too big to be a Skinner car? (though I agree about the radiator)

Geoff: The Maserati must have been a very early prototype :lol:

#123 Dutchy

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:13

Looking again at car no. 21 it appears to have a V-twin motor, judging by the angle of the exhaust pipe coming out of the o/s of the bonnet, so it can't be a Skinner Minor.

Could car no.. 23 be Ian Connell's supercharged Vale Special?

Edited by Dutchy, 21 December 2010 - 10:13.

#124 ratkinso

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 15:47

A very Happy New Year to all - I'm very much looking forward to TNF continuing to provide wonderfully evocative photos, stories and facts. I still have some more under this thread's title, so if you're still interested .....

Still from the paddock at Shelsley 18/05/1935

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Regards,

Richard

#125 bradbury west

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 15:59

The 3rd shot looks like Basil Davenports GN Spider and the 4th looks like an R type MG, which must have been very current in June '35.
Roger Lund

#126 Geoff E

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 16:13

.... and the 4th looks like an R type MG, which must have been very current in June '35.


Doreen Evans drove an R-type MG but it wasn't the one shown here. As well as bearing No 38 or 58 on roundals, it had a "2" where this one has "8".

#127 Vitesse2

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 16:36

The only other R-type (AFAIK) at that meeting was driven by Sammy Davis: pretty sure that's him in the dark coat.

First picture is Eddie Hall's TT Bentley, still carrying its number from Ards the previous year.

#128 "Shangry-La"

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 16:52

The second photo is Dickie Oats' Maserati 26M 2800, whilst the fourth photo is Sammy Davis' R Type MG.

Edited by "Shangry-La", 07 January 2011 - 16:55.

#129 Sharman

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 16:59

The 3rd shot looks like Basil Davenports GN Spider and the 4th looks like an R type MG, which must have been very current in June '35.
Roger Lund


Pretty definitely one of the Spiders, the only person I know who could tell you which one at a glance would be Robin Parker

#130 David McKinney

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 17:05

Pretty definitely one of the Spiders, the only person I know who could tell you which one at a glance would be Robin Parker

Wasn't the second one not built till after the War?

#131 Geoff E

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 19:56

Wasn't the second one not built till after the War?


Yes, it was "created" in 1946.

#132 fuzzi

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 20:59

The second photo is Dickie Oats' Maserati 26M 2800, whilst the fourth photo is Sammy Davis' R Type MG.


I believe it was one of the 8C-2500s that ran in the Double Twelve and the Irish GP of 1931. The story is that Oats managed to acquire the pair when Rawlence's went bust as a settlement of money he was owed.

Interesting that the cowls worn by 2516 and 2518 in Dublin are not on the car at Shelsley - just as 2518 is today. :wave:

PS I think the GN could be the George Simmonds car - he drove one very like it at Lewes in the mid-thirties. It was built from the two-seater BHD with a body similar to Spider, and Simmonds often entered it as Spider. But the real one stayed in Macclesfield.

Edited by fuzzi, 07 January 2011 - 21:02.

#133 Sharman

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 22:03

Yes, it was "created" in 1946.

You are right of course, I have known them so long that they seem to have always been there. If all the bits had been built up there would probably have been 4 or 5. All that was ever said of the Spiders was that there were more than one.

Edited by Sharman, 08 January 2011 - 08:44.

#134 Dutchy

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 16:15

Don't forget that Spider II has an HRG chassis

#135 "Shangry-La"

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 17:33

I believe it was one of the 8C-2500s that ran in the Double Twelve and the Irish GP of 1931.

Thanks - I was aware of the earlier history of the car.
By 1935 it had, however, been bored out to 2811cc, and this what the Shelsley programme quotes.

#136 ratkinso

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 18:43

Thanks to all again for your identifications - here are some "action" pictures from the same May 1935 meeting:

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Just look at the size of that crowd!

3rd - Bolster/Bloody Mary?
4th - Mays/ERA?

Regards,

Richard

PS Thanks for the nomination in the best ever thread, but I think we have a long way to go before matching any of the other nominations!

Edited by ratkinso, 10 January 2011 - 18:45.

#137 Vitesse2

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 19:21

Just look at the size of that crowd!

3rd - Bolster/Bloody Mary?
4th - Mays/ERA?

Crowd is fairly typical for Shelsley in the 30s: it was one of the few big events outside Brooklands, after all!

First one is Driscoll's class-winning Austin. The Bugatti could be anybody! Certainly Bolster and almost definitely Mays. Fifth one could be "Tim Davies" (Frazer Nash), sixth - no idea!

#138 bradbury west

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 19:45

Does no 6 look Sunbeam Tiger/Tigress-ish?
Roger Lund

#139 Vitesse2

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 20:22

Very possible - Malcolm Campbell was reported in Motor Sport to be driving "the big Sunbeam, a size too large for the road."

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#140 Geoff E

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 21:43

Yes, it was Malcolm Campbell, he was in No.66.

Edited by Geoff E, 10 January 2011 - 21:45.

#141 jdtreelines

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:58

PS Thanks for the nomination in the best ever thread, but I think we have a long way to go before matching any of the other nominations!

Hmm. I must admit I posted that comment BEFORE I'd read through the Auto-Union (or should I say Awtowelo) thread. But, with all these 75 year old unpublished photos appearing for the first time, this thread is certainly starting out in the right direction.

JohnD

#142 ratkinso

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:09

The last of the May 1935 Shelsley photos:

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Regards,

Richard

#143 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:41

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Don't know the car but the location is the bottom of the current car park where the gate marshalls park their campers and Caravans each meeting.
Was this used as an extension of the paddock or is the MG about to be put on a trailer perhaps?


#144 Vitesse2

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 12:22

Rare bird in the first one - Herbert Berg's Mercedes Benz SSK, which he'd apparently managed to spin on a return run during practice.

#145 David McKinney

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 12:54

Then unidentified, ERA (Mays?), R-Type MG, Alta sports

#146 Dutchy

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 13:03

Then unidentified, ERA (Mays?), R-Type MG, Alta sports


The unidentified looks very like Eddie Hall (MG K3) to me

#147 David McKinney

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 15:35

I won't argue with that

#148 paulhooft

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 16:36

The Bugatti shown in the pictures 350022 and 350024 is a type 37 chassisnumber 37225.

The other one is a Bugatti's type 37 ( 37332 )of Eileen Ellison, she raced it together with T.P. Cholmondeley.
Both are seen in the photographs


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This information was given to me by Dick Ploeg, researcher of the Dutch Bugatti Club (BCN)

Paul Hooft (BCN)

Edited by paulhooft, 12 January 2011 - 18:23.

#149 JMH

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 17:24

The Magnette is Eddie Hall as you say, although rather than his K3 (K3006), it might well be his N Type (NA0679) - look at the rear chassis overhang, too long for a K Type? He did swop bits around with alarming regularity.

JH

Edited by JMH, 12 January 2011 - 17:39.

#150 fuzzi

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 17:45

The unidentified looks very like Eddie Hall (MG K3) to me


Beaten by JMH:

I believe he drove his MG special at the 1935 meeting. This was an MG with an N-Type 6-cylinder 1287cc supercharged engine clothed with a skimpy body to achieve 43.80, a long way behind class winner Raymond Mays in the ERA (39.80) and he did not persevere with the car. The MG in the photo does look a bit strange for a K3 - the supercharger sticks out a long way forward.

Edited by fuzzi, 12 January 2011 - 17:46.

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