Does any of you know when races started to be shown live on TV?
Which was the first ever motor-race to be broadcast live?
What about the first Grand Prix or the first World Championship race, first Indy500, first NASCAR, first MotoGP a.s.o.
I`m curious to know.
Live TV coverage
Started by
red bull
, Aug 30 2001 22:03
58 replies to this topic
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#2
Hans Etzrodt
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Posted 30 August 2001 - 22:16
I remember having seen on TV part of the early hours and the terrible crash and injured people of the 24 Hours of Le Mans 1955 during the late afternoon. So it must have been live via Eurovision.
#3
josh.lintz
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 00:14
I was watching a TV program (in the US) on televised sports some years ago. The only thing that stuck in my mind was: "In 1965, the 24 Hours of Le Mans was the first sporting event outside of the US to be broadcasted live..." I can't really remember a time before F1 and ESPN (other than ABC's Wide World of Sports and 20-minute Formula One Races), but I hope that helps things out.
#4
alessandro silva
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 08:58
In Italy it was the Mille Miglia. I do not know if 54 or 55. Personally, the first race I ever watched was the 1955 Mille Miglia (Moss, Mercedes etc.)
#5
BRG
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 12:57
Interestingly, there was a documentary on Channel 4 in the UK the other night about the first German TV service which ran from 1935 to 1945. This apparently slightly pre-dated the first British and US TV services and it covered the 1936 Berlin Olympics live (albeit to only a few hundred favoured Nazi party members' homes). So that must the first live sporting event coverage.Originally posted by josh.lintz
I was watching a TV program (in the US) on televised sports some years ago. The only thing that stuck in my mind was: "In 1965, the 24 Hours of Le Mans was the first sporting event outside of the US to be broadcasted live..." I
As for motorsport, I remember various events on British TV in the early 60s but I imagine that they were filmed and retransmitted later. But I would be surprised if some of the European GPs were not covered live even as early as 1965. It would have only been within that country though, as the technology for international coverage wasn't up to it yet.
#6
LittleChris
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 14:15
BRG,
I also watched the documentary on the history of German TV last night on Ch 4. Did you spot the armco beside the stand at the Norisring ( or Liepolt staduium as I believe they called it ) ?
Chris
I also watched the documentary on the history of German TV last night on Ch 4. Did you spot the armco beside the stand at the Norisring ( or Liepolt staduium as I believe they called it ) ?
Chris
#7
BRG
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 16:52
Chris
Yes, I did. Whilst the film-makers saw the historic Nazi rally site, it appears instead to motorsport fans as the historic Norisring, home of DTM and Gp C races! I then spent the rest of the show watching the old footage trying to pick out where the Norisring would one day be - sad or what??
Yes, I did. Whilst the film-makers saw the historic Nazi rally site, it appears instead to motorsport fans as the historic Norisring, home of DTM and Gp C races! I then spent the rest of the show watching the old footage trying to pick out where the Norisring would one day be - sad or what??
#8
Martyj
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 17:08
A news story from serveral years ago about the Indy 500's tv contract stated that the 1946 Indianapolis 500 was broadcast in it's entirity live by local Indianapolis television, WFBM (I think.) It was received by whatever few household with tv's that were within the station's range. THe commentary was the radio network, and the picture was transmitted by a single camera stationed at the end of the main straight.
This was probably the first live complete broadcast of a major auto race.
This was probably the first live complete broadcast of a major auto race.
#9
Barry Boor
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 17:46
I have a vague recollection of the 1960 British Grand Prix going out live, in patches between horse racing.
The 1961 Monaco Grand Prix was definitely shown live, but not all through. I would guess at about 3 big chunks, with other programmes splitting it up.
If only the BBC still had those tapes; but as we know from GaryC - they don't!
The 1961 Monaco Grand Prix was definitely shown live, but not all through. I would guess at about 3 big chunks, with other programmes splitting it up.
If only the BBC still had those tapes; but as we know from GaryC - they don't!
#10
Bumblyari
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 19:28
According to Peter Swinger's "Motor Racing Circuits in England", the first live television broadcast (at least in the UK) was the International Imperial Trophy Race at Crystal Palace on the 9th October 1937.
The race was won by Arthur Dobson driving an ERA.
The race was won by Arthur Dobson driving an ERA.
#11
Don Capps
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 19:43
Martyj,
I knew about the Indy race be televised,but couldn't remember the year although Iknew it had be in the timeframe, '46 or '47 or even '48.
Hans,
I had no idea Le Mans 1955 was televised! Thank goodness we didn't have TV then in Primasens or my Mom would have never allowed me close to another race track. It was bad enough as it was all the stuff in the papers and in the magazines.
I think the 1965 Le Mans broadcast was the first live broadcast using the then new communications satellites to broadcast a race from one continent to another.
Anyone recall the live broadcasts of the Indy 500? When the race were shown in theatres? I was suppposed to go to Indy in 1964, but something happened and so I ended up seeing on the theater broadcast. I still recall the stunned silence after the Eddie Sachs/ Dave MacDonald crash.
ABC Wide World of Sports used to televise the Monaco GP live after carrying it on same-day coverage for a number of years.
There was a live broadcast of the Dallas FA race in 1970 by a local station, something really rare back then. We caught the re-broadcast later in the week, but any racing on TV back then was scarce: only a very few NASCAR or USAC races made it on the screen live. Most of the time, as pointed out, it was a few bits here and there -- usually split into parts since nothing was even done in its entirety then: race, gymnastics, water polo, race, water polo, race, gymastics... -- on ABC WWoS or some similar show.
I knew about the Indy race be televised,but couldn't remember the year although Iknew it had be in the timeframe, '46 or '47 or even '48.
Hans,
I had no idea Le Mans 1955 was televised! Thank goodness we didn't have TV then in Primasens or my Mom would have never allowed me close to another race track. It was bad enough as it was all the stuff in the papers and in the magazines.
I think the 1965 Le Mans broadcast was the first live broadcast using the then new communications satellites to broadcast a race from one continent to another.
Anyone recall the live broadcasts of the Indy 500? When the race were shown in theatres? I was suppposed to go to Indy in 1964, but something happened and so I ended up seeing on the theater broadcast. I still recall the stunned silence after the Eddie Sachs/ Dave MacDonald crash.
ABC Wide World of Sports used to televise the Monaco GP live after carrying it on same-day coverage for a number of years.
There was a live broadcast of the Dallas FA race in 1970 by a local station, something really rare back then. We caught the re-broadcast later in the week, but any racing on TV back then was scarce: only a very few NASCAR or USAC races made it on the screen live. Most of the time, as pointed out, it was a few bits here and there -- usually split into parts since nothing was even done in its entirety then: race, gymnastics, water polo, race, water polo, race, gymastics... -- on ABC WWoS or some similar show.
#12
Roger Clark
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 20:27
Originally posted by Barry Boor
I have a vague recollection of the 1960 British Grand Prix going out live, in patches between horse racing.
The 1961 Monaco Grand Prix was definitely shown live, but not all through. I would guess at about 3 big chunks, with other programmes splitting it up.
If only the BBC still had those tapes; but as we know from GaryC - they don't!
It's possible that the actual coverage of the Monaco race was by French TV. Possibly they still have it. I for one could do without Raymond Baxter's commentary.
#13
Stefan Ornerdal
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Posted 31 August 2001 - 21:30
I am absolutely sure that 1965 Le Mans was the first live coverage in Sweden. First live GP was Monaco 1967. Still remember Lorenzo Bandinis burning wreck.
Horrific pictures.
Swedish state television did not like racing at all, but peoples demand made them send some races when Ronnie Peterson was at the top. After Monza - no coverage at all for some years.
In the 70s, when the boss of Swedish Sport-TV was asked which threee sports he hated the answer was: Formula 1, Formula 2 and Formula 3!!!
Stefan
Horrific pictures.Swedish state television did not like racing at all, but peoples demand made them send some races when Ronnie Peterson was at the top. After Monza - no coverage at all for some years.
In the 70s, when the boss of Swedish Sport-TV was asked which threee sports he hated the answer was: Formula 1, Formula 2 and Formula 3!!!
Stefan
#14
Eric McLoughlin
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 00:01
As mentioned above, the first ever live TV broadcast of a motor race was by the BBC from the Crystal Palace in 1937. I am sure BBC covered many motor sport events in the 1950's which were only ever broadcast live. There were no means of recording TV transmissions up 'til the late 1950's when video tape recording became possible. Even then, tape was often re-used as it was considered expensive. On rare ocassions, if the event being shown was important enough, the live TV pictures were recorded off a TV monitor onto celluloid film. An example of this would be the Queen's Coronation in 1953. The resultant images were usually of poor quality.
Someone mentioned the 1961 Monaco Grand Prix as an example of an early live broadcast (even though TV was already 25 years old by then). In the colour film footage of the race (a BP promotional film actually) there is a shot of the start finish straight in which one of the TV camera is clearly visible and the TV image can be seen flickering in its viewfinder.
Going back to the comments on the 1936 Olympic TV coverage, I wasn't aware of Nazi party members having TV in their homes but I do know that the pictures were relayed to a number of Berlin department stores which had TV's in their shop windows so that passers bt could see the new wonder of television. None of the sets were actually on sale to the general public. The only country with a genuine public service TV system before World War Two was Britain.
Someone mentioned the 1961 Monaco Grand Prix as an example of an early live broadcast (even though TV was already 25 years old by then). In the colour film footage of the race (a BP promotional film actually) there is a shot of the start finish straight in which one of the TV camera is clearly visible and the TV image can be seen flickering in its viewfinder.
Going back to the comments on the 1936 Olympic TV coverage, I wasn't aware of Nazi party members having TV in their homes but I do know that the pictures were relayed to a number of Berlin department stores which had TV's in their shop windows so that passers bt could see the new wonder of television. None of the sets were actually on sale to the general public. The only country with a genuine public service TV system before World War Two was Britain.
#15
cabianca
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 05:28
For several years in the late 50s and early sixties, the Indianapolis 500 was broadcast live, but you had to go to a theatre or arena and pay to see it, it wasn't on home TV. This was a technology that was normally used for prizefights in the US at the time. I remember being in Boston and watching the 1963 Parnelli Jones/Jim Clark farce. Don't know when ABC started doing it live on network (home) TV. I think there were midget races broadcast on TV in Los Angeles not too long after WWII.
#16
leegle
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 06:09
I have a vague memory of seeing Bathurst televised live when I was about six or seven so that would be about 1957. Warwick Farm international meetings were televised by the ABC some years. 
We started getting regular GP telecasts about 1981 thanks to satellites.;)
We started getting regular GP telecasts about 1981 thanks to satellites.;)
#17
David J Jones
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 06:49
Barry
The first broadcast here (UK) that I can clearly remember was the 1955 Oulton Park Gold Cuo race.
However I am sure that I have read that certain racing events before the war were transmitted. I am not certain if either of the Donnington races was.
The first direct direct broadcast from Continental Europe I saw was the 57 Le Mans 24 hours and the first live British GP was also in 57. The first live Continental Formula One event I saw was the 59 Monaco GP
Roger - RB used to annoy me almost as much as MW does today but I am able to forgive him as he was a Spitfire pilot during the War! How is it MW can allude to being the voice of F1 since the 1950?
Don - my first live Indy was in 66 to a theatre in the UK via Satellite. The first live home viewing I had was in 91 when I got my own Satellite dish.
In 91 I saw my first live NASCAR event but nowadays it is delayed by a week so I don't bother. IF IT AIN'T LIVE I DON'T WATCH as a rule
How I long for a Satellite TV Channel devoted solely to Worldwide Motor Racing!
The first broadcast here (UK) that I can clearly remember was the 1955 Oulton Park Gold Cuo race.
However I am sure that I have read that certain racing events before the war were transmitted. I am not certain if either of the Donnington races was.
The first direct direct broadcast from Continental Europe I saw was the 57 Le Mans 24 hours and the first live British GP was also in 57. The first live Continental Formula One event I saw was the 59 Monaco GP
Roger - RB used to annoy me almost as much as MW does today but I am able to forgive him as he was a Spitfire pilot during the War! How is it MW can allude to being the voice of F1 since the 1950?
Don - my first live Indy was in 66 to a theatre in the UK via Satellite. The first live home viewing I had was in 91 when I got my own Satellite dish.
In 91 I saw my first live NASCAR event but nowadays it is delayed by a week so I don't bother. IF IT AIN'T LIVE I DON'T WATCH as a rule
How I long for a Satellite TV Channel devoted solely to Worldwide Motor Racing!
#18
Roger Clark
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 09:16
Roger - RB used to annoy me almost as much as MW does today but I am able to forgive him as he was a Spitfire pilot during the War! How is it MW can allude to being the voice of F1 since the 1950?
I don't think Murray has claimed to have been the voice of F1 since 1950 but he has been involved since then. Raymond Baxter was the BBC's main commentator but Murray would often man one of the commentary boxes out on the circuit which they used in those days. Murray's main involvement was with motorcycle racing, i particularly remember his commentary on motocross, or Scrambling as it was then known.
Another star of the BBC team was John Bolster in the pits. A rather different style from Louise Goodman, but whether the change is for the better or worse is (probably) a matter of opinion.
#19
fines
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 09:40
AFAIK the first live broadcast in Germany was from the 1966 German GP, which was before I was born. I can clearly remember seeing a live broadcast from the 1974 "Jim-Clark-Gedächtnisrennen", also known as the "Deutschland-Trophäe", an annual Formula Two race. I was seven, and still vividly remember a pitstop for a new nose cone for Depailler (whom I rooted for! 
), which handed the win to Stuck. I also remember that they put a "Jägermeister" nose cone on the "Elf" sponsored car!
Not much was broadcasted live, except for the German GP and a few Long Beach GP (because they aired late at night
), until RTL took on the task of showing every race live from 1984 onwards. Even if the commentary was way below par, that was a treat!
), which handed the win to Stuck. I also remember that they put a "Jägermeister" nose cone on the "Elf" sponsored car!Not much was broadcasted live, except for the German GP and a few Long Beach GP (because they aired late at night
), until RTL took on the task of showing every race live from 1984 onwards. Even if the commentary was way below par, that was a treat!
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#20
Vitesse2
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 12:50
Originally posted by Roger Clark
Murray's main involvement was with motorcycle racing, i particularly remember his commentary on motocross, or Scrambling as it was then known.
Another star of the BBC team was John Bolster in the pits. A rather different style from Louise Goodman, but whether the change is for the better or worse is (probably) a matter of opinion.
When DID Scrambling beome known as motocross? And why? Anyone ...?
Roger: that mention of John Bolster caused a weird image to flash across my mind - Louise Goodman with a handlebar moustache!!!
Time to up the medication??
#21
Roger Clark
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 13:31
Or Louise going up Shelsley Walsk in Bloody Mary? Time for the darkened room I fear.
#22
Gary Davies
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 15:13
Originally posted by Barry Boor
I have a vague recollection of the 1960 British Grand Prix going out live, in patches between horse racing ... (
Barry, you remind me of a wonderful Russell Brockbank cartoon which originally appeared in Motor. It depicts a retired colonel type (no offence, Don), his TV room decorated with trophies, an old piston and a Bugatti 35 on the mantelpiece. He is furiously red faced and about to blow up his television with a couple of sticks of dynamite.
The sound from the television is saying: ÒSince we left Oulton Park for the horses we have seen them walk round and round, the blankets taken off, the saddling up, the ownersÕ last instructions, the jockeys mounting, the cantering up the course, the circling round and the tightening of girths, the eventual start, two minutes of racing, the plodding back to the paddock, the jockeys getting off, the hanging around for the results, the winning prices announced - since then as I said, the leading cars have swopped eighteen times (obviously this is a pre-Max Mosley era - Vanwall!), one driver has swum out of the lake, there has been a phenomenal avoidance at Old Hall involving four cars, a fire at the pits, and here come the three leaders neck and neck for the finish of the century while we go over to Wigan for for the Rugby League match, where a muddy man is digging a hole with his boot with infinite care ...Ó
For those old enough to remember BBC Grandstand in the fifties and sixties, itÕs soooo familiar.
Vanwall.
#23
David J Jones
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 15:43
Vanwall
Oh what a horrible memory - I feel quite ill - time for some medicine!!
I fear British Eurosport is trying hard to reconstitute itself in the same mould.
Oh what a horrible memory - I feel quite ill - time for some medicine!!
I fear British Eurosport is trying hard to reconstitute itself in the same mould.
#24
fines
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 17:09
Eurosport is the worst station I ever encountered! 
#25
Vitesse2
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 20:55
Vanwall, David: Oh yes, it all comes flooding back - painful memories of Grandstand! Mind you, the most painful was watching the 1968 BOAC 500 live from Brands when (I think) Raymond Baxter had the awful task of announcing the death of Jim Clark earlier that day at Hockenheim:cry:
#26
FEV
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 21:12
Barry & Roger,
I spent the last four years working at Monte-Carlo TMC (the one and only TV Channel from Monaco) and can bring a little light (and hope) about the 1961 Monaco Grand Prix. First you must remember that Monaco is not France and that they never have and probably will never allow a "foreign" network broadcast their GP. So it is TMC who has a good stock of archives on motorsport (mostly F1 & Rallye de Monte-Carlo). Until last year the guy in charge of the archives was reputed for his strange ways of working and didn't seem to care about motorsport too much. However since lsat year a more competent young girl came to the job and is since then working on putting a bit of order in this mess. I've asked if she knew what they had on the Monaco GP. The answer is : A LOT, BUT WHERE ? The list she provided me is full of promises, but the stock is such a mess that tapes are hard to find. Anyway it seems that TMC broadcasted the Monaco GP from 1954 onwards and has kept all the tapes. I'm not working there since the beginning of 2001, but I'm still in touch with them and hope that maybe soon we will find a trace of this true piece history of our sport. I let you know.
FEV
I spent the last four years working at Monte-Carlo TMC (the one and only TV Channel from Monaco) and can bring a little light (and hope) about the 1961 Monaco Grand Prix. First you must remember that Monaco is not France and that they never have and probably will never allow a "foreign" network broadcast their GP. So it is TMC who has a good stock of archives on motorsport (mostly F1 & Rallye de Monte-Carlo). Until last year the guy in charge of the archives was reputed for his strange ways of working and didn't seem to care about motorsport too much. However since lsat year a more competent young girl came to the job and is since then working on putting a bit of order in this mess. I've asked if she knew what they had on the Monaco GP. The answer is : A LOT, BUT WHERE ? The list she provided me is full of promises, but the stock is such a mess that tapes are hard to find. Anyway it seems that TMC broadcasted the Monaco GP from 1954 onwards and has kept all the tapes. I'm not working there since the beginning of 2001, but I'm still in touch with them and hope that maybe soon we will find a trace of this true piece history of our sport. I let you know.
FEV
#27
Barry Boor
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Posted 01 September 2001 - 21:21
FEV, this is wonderful news.
I have wished to get my hands on a tape of the '61 Monaco Grand Prix for forty years.
If you do find out anything, PLEASE let us know. That particular race is my very favourite Grand Prix of all time!
I have wished to get my hands on a tape of the '61 Monaco Grand Prix for forty years.
If you do find out anything, PLEASE let us know. That particular race is my very favourite Grand Prix of all time!
#28
Gary Davies
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Posted 02 September 2001 - 08:56
Barry, do excuse the plagiarism. I can change not one of your words ...
FEV, this is wonderful news.
I have wished to get my hands on a tape of the '61 Monaco Grand Prix for forty years.
If you do find out anything, PLEASE let us know. That particular race is my very favourite Grand Prix of all time!
Vanwall.
FEV, this is wonderful news.
I have wished to get my hands on a tape of the '61 Monaco Grand Prix for forty years.
If you do find out anything, PLEASE let us know. That particular race is my very favourite Grand Prix of all time!
Vanwall.
#29
Rob29
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Posted 02 September 2001 - 09:06
First foreign GP shown live in England was Monaco 59,followed by Monza.Reims was scheduled but cancelled due to a strike.Baxter did sound radio report from a phone box!
#30
FEV
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Posted 02 September 2001 - 16:52
Barry, Vanwall and everyone interested,
I understand your joy about this tapes being maybe accessible to us soon. I had the same feeling when I looked at TMC's archive list for the first time. I can also remember other F1 related short footages of the sixties (incredible things like "drivers briefing, Grand Prix de Monaco 1969" among others
). I'll do my best to motivate the girl in charge of the job, but she has so much work to do after years of "laisser aller" of her predecessor. Another problem about it is the format of the older tapes. I don't understand much about TV technics, but for some of the tapes they don't seem to even have the machine to read them 
!!! So copying them in today's format will be hard. Anyway I'll try to know more about all this and let you know if anything comes up.
FEV
I understand your joy about this tapes being maybe accessible to us soon. I had the same feeling when I looked at TMC's archive list for the first time. I can also remember other F1 related short footages of the sixties (incredible things like "drivers briefing, Grand Prix de Monaco 1969" among others
). I'll do my best to motivate the girl in charge of the job, but she has so much work to do after years of "laisser aller" of her predecessor. Another problem about it is the format of the older tapes. I don't understand much about TV technics, but for some of the tapes they don't seem to even have the machine to read them !!! So copying them in today's format will be hard. Anyway I'll try to know more about all this and let you know if anything comes up.FEV
#31
The Runner
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 05:45
FEV, Hi!!
Any News!!
It is almost a year now....
I love this thread, it is brim full of what I love most, namely 'TV' coverage of the 50s and 60s. I have alluded many times to my memories of televised motor racing in the sixties. God imagine if there were film of Monaco 1961, or any other year for that matter. The BRM one twos, Rindt the jammy bugger in 1970, 1967, Johnny fly by night in 1968 what a story.
Within the video ' Motor Racing in the 1960s ' there is about 90 seconds of Jackie Oliver and Jo Siffert and Amon at Brands Hatch in 1968.. it is taken from the TV coverage. I don't, or am not sure if the people who have this sort of film in their possession really appreciate the true value of what it is they have in their hands other than the profit margin of a video, because they are chopping the film up and they should leave them alone in their entirety and that is what we want to see, to watch a race develop into a classic from when the damed flag drops at the start, do you remember the British Grand Prix at Brands Hatch in 1964 and Graham chasing Jimmy for the whole race, profit margin! I would pay £50 to have what coverage there is of that race on a video. "Old Black and White Grainy Cars" as my wife would call them, and she is right too.. but if I could just for a moment let her feel in her heart and stomach what I feel when I see clips like this, she will realise the charismatic nature of its appeal to me. These clips are priceless, absolutely priceless windows into a past where the truest heroes drove the love we have for motor racing into our souls!!!!
I just can't imagine what a whole race would be like to watch again, or at least what coverage is available it would be bloody marvellous!! Some races I know were televised either by BBC or ITV or Eurovision are....
1962..... Dutch GP, Monaco GP, French GP, British GP, Guards Int Trophy at Brands Hatch three races (a Mike Parkes benefit), Italian GP, Tourist Trophy from Goodwood, Oulton Park Gold Cup, Le Mans, Thousand Guineas from Mallory.
1963.....Monaco, Holland, Britain, Oulton, TT, Italy, Le Mans.
1964 to 1966, Gold Cups, British GPs, Italian GPs Monaco GPs Le Mans...
,, who knows what else lies on film, hidden away in the archives of European TV companies.
I want those "Old Black And White Grainy Cars" in a set of six videos all two hours long, including the actual commentaries even if it is in Chinese it is all 'atmosphere'.
I want to share this link to a site that has some great photos, and there are also two wav files above the photos of Monaco, they are from the 1968 Monaco Grand Prix... Lap One and Lap Two as the cars tear past.
http://www3.mistral..../old photos.htm
Okay, I will dissapear again now.....
Any News!!
It is almost a year now....
I love this thread, it is brim full of what I love most, namely 'TV' coverage of the 50s and 60s. I have alluded many times to my memories of televised motor racing in the sixties. God imagine if there were film of Monaco 1961, or any other year for that matter. The BRM one twos, Rindt the jammy bugger in 1970, 1967, Johnny fly by night in 1968 what a story.
Within the video ' Motor Racing in the 1960s ' there is about 90 seconds of Jackie Oliver and Jo Siffert and Amon at Brands Hatch in 1968.. it is taken from the TV coverage. I don't, or am not sure if the people who have this sort of film in their possession really appreciate the true value of what it is they have in their hands other than the profit margin of a video, because they are chopping the film up and they should leave them alone in their entirety and that is what we want to see, to watch a race develop into a classic from when the damed flag drops at the start, do you remember the British Grand Prix at Brands Hatch in 1964 and Graham chasing Jimmy for the whole race, profit margin! I would pay £50 to have what coverage there is of that race on a video. "Old Black and White Grainy Cars" as my wife would call them, and she is right too.. but if I could just for a moment let her feel in her heart and stomach what I feel when I see clips like this, she will realise the charismatic nature of its appeal to me. These clips are priceless, absolutely priceless windows into a past where the truest heroes drove the love we have for motor racing into our souls!!!!
I just can't imagine what a whole race would be like to watch again, or at least what coverage is available it would be bloody marvellous!! Some races I know were televised either by BBC or ITV or Eurovision are....
1962..... Dutch GP, Monaco GP, French GP, British GP, Guards Int Trophy at Brands Hatch three races (a Mike Parkes benefit), Italian GP, Tourist Trophy from Goodwood, Oulton Park Gold Cup, Le Mans, Thousand Guineas from Mallory.
1963.....Monaco, Holland, Britain, Oulton, TT, Italy, Le Mans.
1964 to 1966, Gold Cups, British GPs, Italian GPs Monaco GPs Le Mans...
,, who knows what else lies on film, hidden away in the archives of European TV companies.
I want those "Old Black And White Grainy Cars" in a set of six videos all two hours long, including the actual commentaries even if it is in Chinese it is all 'atmosphere'.
I want to share this link to a site that has some great photos, and there are also two wav files above the photos of Monaco, they are from the 1968 Monaco Grand Prix... Lap One and Lap Two as the cars tear past.
http://www3.mistral..../old photos.htm
Okay, I will dissapear again now.....
#32
lynmeredith
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- 174 posts
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 07:14
Don't disappear, Runner. Thanks so much for posting those wonderful pictures. What memories. My greatest regret is that during the sixties I visited so many circuits when I was with Goodyear and didn't take a single photo. What an idiot! Thanks again (with tears)
Lyn Meredith
Lyn Meredith
#33
LittleChris
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- 3,729 posts
- Joined: April 01
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 09:44
Originally posted by The Runner
FEV, Hi!!
Any News!!
do you remember the British Grand Prix at Brands Hatch in 1964 and Graham chasing Jimmy for the whole race, profit margin! I would pay £50 to have what coverage there is of that race on a video.
Runner,
I think you might find it a bit cheaper that £ 50 ! See url:
http://www.motorspor...or.com/TSV.html
The video comes from Terrific Stuff Videos ( Chris Nixon's company I believe and thus based in the UK - so it might be worth looking for a UK based outlet rather than importing) and also includes some between races features. I've got it and it's superb.
Chris
#34
moody
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- 181 posts
- Joined: December 00
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 15:26
I really appreciate that Little Chris but it is the old live pictures from TV coverage I am talking about. I have Rouen Round with the Brands race after it. Cheers my friend.
Do you know I remember a race at Silverstone for Saloon cars, and the winner of this race was Bo Pittard, it was the best example of car control I have ever seen, he drove an Anglia and he was a fantastic talent, I'd sit down and cry if someone found the tape of that race. Sadly we lost his wonderful talent at Monza around the same time as Bandini left us.
I wonder if Doug Nye remembers him, and has a story perhaps?
Do you know I remember a race at Silverstone for Saloon cars, and the winner of this race was Bo Pittard, it was the best example of car control I have ever seen, he drove an Anglia and he was a fantastic talent, I'd sit down and cry if someone found the tape of that race. Sadly we lost his wonderful talent at Monza around the same time as Bandini left us.
I wonder if Doug Nye remembers him, and has a story perhaps?
#35
David J Jones
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- 448 posts
- Joined: August 00
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 15:33
I wish I knew what old TV coverage film still exists in the archive.
About three years ago the BBC put together a program covering the 1958 season together with Raymomd Baxter. This had some great b/w film - used I presume in Sportsview at the time.
Wish they would put in on again
About three years ago the BBC put together a program covering the 1958 season together with Raymomd Baxter. This had some great b/w film - used I presume in Sportsview at the time.
Wish they would put in on again
#36
nmansellfan
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- 434 posts
- Joined: April 02
Member
Posted 21 June 2002 - 15:47
Barry Boor, when you said that "As we know from GaryC, they dont!" (aug 2001, i know it was a while back!) does that mean that the BBC destroyed the tapes of 60's races? does anyone else know about this?
i was under the impression that the BBC usually kept sporting events and erased boring stuff like current affairs programmes etc. Even in the 70's when they had a massive wiping spree im sure i heard it was limited to stuff nobody cared about, although im probably wrong :
i bet the beeb still has every cricket match ever televised still on tape though
i was under the impression that the BBC usually kept sporting events and erased boring stuff like current affairs programmes etc. Even in the 70's when they had a massive wiping spree im sure i heard it was limited to stuff nobody cared about, although im probably wrong :
i bet the beeb still has every cricket match ever televised still on tape though
#37
LittleChris
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- 3,729 posts
- Joined: April 01
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 16:00
Originally posted by moody
I really appreciate that Little Chris but it is the old live pictures from TV coverage I am talking about. I have Rouen Round with the Brands race after it. Cheers my friend.
Do you know I remember a race at Silverstone for Saloon cars, and the winner of this race was Bo Pittard, it was the best example of car control I have ever seen, he drove an Anglia and he was a fantastic talent, I'd sit down and cry if someone found the tape of that race. Sadly we lost his wonderful talent at Monza around the same time as Bandini left us.
I wonder if Doug Nye remembers him, and has a story perhaps?
Moody,
I've also got Rouen Round/ Brands Hatch Beat, but the coverage of Brands on that is not the same as the video I'm talking about here. I don't know whether it is the TV coverage, but there is much more footage. It's called European GP 1964 / The Time In-between. I reckon there's about 25 minutes coverage of the 1964 GP on this video. Also it's not just focussed around a couple of corners such as Paddock / Clearways as so many of these old videos are, there are good shots of Pilgrims Drop, Hawthorns etc
Chris
#38
Rob29
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- 3,582 posts
- Joined: January 01
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 17:05
I think you will find that these are not 'TV coverage' as such.They are films. I remember 'Rouen Round' a fabulous film in colour. I possibly saw it at Kensington Town Hall in 1963-they used to have regular film shows there in the 60s. TV in UK (and AFAIK in the rest of the world except USA) was in black & white at that time.
#39
Criceto
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- 201 posts
- Joined: August 00
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Posted 21 June 2002 - 20:23
I had a friend in the BBC a few years ago, who remembers remonstrating with whoever it was in charge who had just ordered that every single episode of the "Nationwide" current affairs show be consigned, in its entirety, to a rubbish skip. This would have been as recently as 1988.
From the same source, I heard the story of how a researcher was putting together the 25th anniversary "Top of the Pops" and was handed a set of 8 videotapes by the archivist - when he said he wanted to examine the whole archive, and not just a representative selection, he was told that this WAS the whole archive....
I never could understand this attitude on the part of our national broadcaster.
But there is hope, albeit partial. I noticed something odd about the tape I recorded of the 1993 Oulton Park Gold Cup the other day - this was the one run to BTCC regulations. The opening blurb by Murray Walker alluded to a great history of Gold Cups, and then promptly showed us about 2 minutes of Jack Brabham charging around at the head of the 1959 (I think) race.
There are bits and pieces out there. It's just a question of badgering, lobbying and looking in unexpected places. Don't forget the long-lost Goon Show that turned up behind the wall of a recording studio in New Zealand a few years back...
Oh, a note to the "The Runner" worried about video producers chopping up the 1968 Brands Hatch race - I think you'll find the company in question is the one Neville Hay is involved with, and you can bet your boots he knows the intrinsic value of anything he has. If it isn't released in its entirety, it will be either down to licencing constrictions, or economics.
From the same source, I heard the story of how a researcher was putting together the 25th anniversary "Top of the Pops" and was handed a set of 8 videotapes by the archivist - when he said he wanted to examine the whole archive, and not just a representative selection, he was told that this WAS the whole archive....
I never could understand this attitude on the part of our national broadcaster.
But there is hope, albeit partial. I noticed something odd about the tape I recorded of the 1993 Oulton Park Gold Cup the other day - this was the one run to BTCC regulations. The opening blurb by Murray Walker alluded to a great history of Gold Cups, and then promptly showed us about 2 minutes of Jack Brabham charging around at the head of the 1959 (I think) race.
There are bits and pieces out there. It's just a question of badgering, lobbying and looking in unexpected places. Don't forget the long-lost Goon Show that turned up behind the wall of a recording studio in New Zealand a few years back...
Oh, a note to the "The Runner" worried about video producers chopping up the 1968 Brands Hatch race - I think you'll find the company in question is the one Neville Hay is involved with, and you can bet your boots he knows the intrinsic value of anything he has. If it isn't released in its entirety, it will be either down to licencing constrictions, or economics.
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#40
Barry Boor
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- 11,549 posts
- Joined: October 00
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Posted 22 June 2002 - 06:43
Barry Boor, when you said that "As we know from GaryC, they dont!" (aug 2001, i know it was a while back!) does that mean that the BBC destroyed the tapes of 60's races?
Well, all I can say is that GaryC is in 'the business' so to speak, and has contacts at the Beeb. He is quite convinced that they simply chucked away literally days-worth of archive film of the sort we are all clamouring for.
Apparently, given the technology of the time, storage was becoming impossible because of the size and number of film reels that they had.
There are times when you want to climb to the top of a mountain and SCREAM! This is one of them.
#41
Gary C
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- 5,571 posts
- Joined: January 01
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Posted 23 June 2002 - 21:30
Lads, I used to worr in the BBC Film and Videotape Library. I KNOW it's all gone, I've looked for it!! Apart from interrogating the computer records, I sometimes (when the mood took me) used to just walk along the corridors of film and video tapes boxes in the vain hope that I might see something that had been mis-labelled or mis-filed. Did I find anything?? Did I heck....
#42
The Runner
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- 48 posts
- Joined: April 02
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Posted 25 June 2002 - 05:50
..that is very sad news indeed. Ihe BBC really do need a slap sometimes.
Thanks again Little Chris, I will put that particular video on my list.
...perhaps loads of film will surface from Europe one day...
Thanks again Little Chris, I will put that particular video on my list.
...perhaps loads of film will surface from Europe one day...
#43
Gary C
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- 5,571 posts
- Joined: January 01
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Posted 28 June 2002 - 21:30
Of course, the thing I would like to do would be to pick a 'classic' Grand Prix, let's say 1961 Monaco as an example, and I would then be paid to scour the world's TV archives for all available footage, re-constitute the race & release it all on VHS / DVD!!!
#44
The Runner
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- 48 posts
- Joined: April 02
Member
Posted 29 June 2002 - 05:53
..can I carry your bag for you??
#45
Lutz G
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- 369 posts
- Joined: May 02
Member
Posted 29 June 2002 - 08:04
Originally posted by Gary C
Of course, the thing I would like to do would be to pick a 'classic' Grand Prix, let's say 1961 Monaco as an example, and I would then be paid to scour the world's TV archives for all available footage, re-constitute the race & release it all on VHS / DVD!!!
The other day they had *excellent* material (the original coverage) from the 1964 and 65 Nuerburgring Grand Prix on German TV! 30 minutes - shot with up to 18 (!) tv cameras - superb footage, you can see Graham Hill's supension working up to the Karussell. B/w "only" but has a very sharp and clear picture with lots of details (you can see every blade of grass moving in the wind). All shown in the "75 Jahre Nuerburgring" Feature. Boy, I would love to see more of such footage!
#46
nigel red5
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- 9,468 posts
- Joined: January 00
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Posted 22 September 2005 - 10:49
To me this thread never died, it was merely in a dormant phase before eventually someone would make a heart-warming discovery.
...........3 years later.
Two fantastic discoveries have been made in the last month. Keep reading them over & over, and slowly you'll believe it.
1) Monaco 1970. I've tried a couple of tv archives over the last 2-3 years, rarely with success. I knew from Gary's crushing post years ago that the BBC was a non-starter, so looked elsewhere.
Anyway, to cut a long story short a 49 minute highlights version of world feed turned up in - of all places - Norway. Black n white, and the image quality is fantastic.
2) Monaco 1961. This one turned up in the United States, so i was even more baffled. It's a 48 min film documentary-style, definitely not world feed.......which means as we all know the world version is still out there somewhere, and has reasonably good coverage of practice & qualifying with an interview with Phil Hill. The race part is about 20-25 mins long, and is covered from about 7 or so different cameras, features the podium & has a post-race interview with Stirling made on the Monday afterwards. This was definitely an American tv documentary for an hour, with the prog itself being 48 mins. Commentary is from a North American sportscaster named Bud Palmer, who either worked for CBC Canada or CBS (???) Quality is again black n white and superb for such an old film. The original 16mm film was sent to a transfer company and put onto DVD.
Anyway the moral of the story is to never give up looking. I've always been of the opinion that if you don't ask you don't get. The races are both now in my collection, and if anyone's interested then either PM or e-mail me.
Like a few of you here in TNF, my search and will to unlock all these old jewels won't diminish. Lets just hope that along with the superb work of motorfilms quarterly, and Gary's Yesterday's racers project, that more and more of this kind of stuff turns up in the near future.
...........3 years later.
Two fantastic discoveries have been made in the last month. Keep reading them over & over, and slowly you'll believe it.
1) Monaco 1970. I've tried a couple of tv archives over the last 2-3 years, rarely with success. I knew from Gary's crushing post years ago that the BBC was a non-starter, so looked elsewhere.
Anyway, to cut a long story short a 49 minute highlights version of world feed turned up in - of all places - Norway. Black n white, and the image quality is fantastic.
2) Monaco 1961. This one turned up in the United States, so i was even more baffled. It's a 48 min film documentary-style, definitely not world feed.......which means as we all know the world version is still out there somewhere, and has reasonably good coverage of practice & qualifying with an interview with Phil Hill. The race part is about 20-25 mins long, and is covered from about 7 or so different cameras, features the podium & has a post-race interview with Stirling made on the Monday afterwards. This was definitely an American tv documentary for an hour, with the prog itself being 48 mins. Commentary is from a North American sportscaster named Bud Palmer, who either worked for CBC Canada or CBS (???) Quality is again black n white and superb for such an old film. The original 16mm film was sent to a transfer company and put onto DVD.
Anyway the moral of the story is to never give up looking. I've always been of the opinion that if you don't ask you don't get. The races are both now in my collection, and if anyone's interested then either PM or e-mail me.
Like a few of you here in TNF, my search and will to unlock all these old jewels won't diminish. Lets just hope that along with the superb work of motorfilms quarterly, and Gary's Yesterday's racers project, that more and more of this kind of stuff turns up in the near future.
#47
Billy Sollocks
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- 35 posts
- Joined: April 05
Member
Posted 06 November 2005 - 09:24
Other european countries may not have been so stupid as to wipe or destroy live motor racing footage, Rai of Italy for example, anyone with TV contacts abroad???
#48
paulhooft
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- 873 posts
- Joined: January 01
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Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:16
parts of the Grand Prix de Pau 1963 was on TV, I have seen it, Monaco 1963 was, and I think that Monaco 1962 was (but I did not see it,,.)
And I remember I have seen parts of the Dutch Grand Prix of 1961... on TV
Paul Hooft
And I remember I have seen parts of the Dutch Grand Prix of 1961... on TV
Paul Hooft
#49
RTH
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- 6,066 posts
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 08:31
BBC radio this morning reported ITV's most recent results show an 8 1/2 % drop in income from advertising compared to the same period last year.
The company said programming cost would have to be cut and this would fall most heavily on sports coverage...........
The company said programming cost would have to be cut and this would fall most heavily on sports coverage...........
#50
Gary C
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- 5,571 posts
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 10:05
that's OK. Might mean ITV will have to elbow James Allen from the F1 commentary team!!
